iPhone SE (2016) iPhone SE 2 in 2018?

[DeepIn2U]

The answer is right in front of you but most SE enthusiasts are simply blind to the obvious. Apple’s own actions speak louder than words.

4” form factor is a dying breed.

The 4.7” and larger devices have already replaced 4”.

There’s this endless argument that some people want 4”. There also people out there that want 3.5” phones and 11” MacBooks. That demand is dead or dying.

That's quite amusing actually.
The 4" screened iPhone is still in production and has to this date still outlasted production length of the 4.7/5+" iPhones to date.
Furthermore, Sony still satisfies a decent market segment of those that want a 4" smartphone globally, even though they're not even the top 8 smartphone manufacturer. They operate at a loss each year in the mobile space, paid for by their TV, Playstation, Movie, Camera, and Music business (in order of profitability I believe). The Mobile arm is a technology showcase for their Camera Sensors (for prospective clients: Apple etc) and their LCD screen business (1st real 4K resolution screen, pixel density, switching or arrangement of pixels etc).
The 'Compact' line of their smartphone doesn't even sell as much as their more budget or high end models yet it still packs to the features of the top tier phones - only 1 year did it not make one 2016, and yet Sony still sees a business sense to continue making the Compact lineup 2017 onward.

So I ask you to do further research and see why Apple would see reason from their users why a 4" screen phone makes business sense going forward? Not just the size ... but it's the cost of manufacturing, and retail cost to consumers in regions where it's a viable sale option vs no option (India, Indonesia, Brazil, etc).

 

[turbineseaplane]

Esimated adoption numbers have released by a few sources.

Certainly fine to speculate based upon that, but I hope you at least recognize how flawed any analysis might be with that as the data source.

While we are speculating, here's some fresh stuff about an SE2:

"Tekz24Tekz24, an India-based tech website, said that the new iPhone SE will look like its predecessor and will be equipped with the A10 processor, the iOS 11 operating system and a display of 4-4.2 inches. The new model will have 32GB and 128GB storage options, with a 1700mAh battery."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewansp...w-leak-rumor-a11-fourinch-small/#59071e113a0c

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201708040018.aspx

 

[Martyimac]

The answer is right in front of you but most SE enthusiasts are simply blind to the obvious. Apple’s own actions speak louder than words.

4” form factor is a dying breed.

The 4.7” and larger devices have already replaced 4”.

There’s this endless argument that some people want 4”. There also people out there that want 3.5” phones and 11” MacBooks. That demand is dead or dying.

So why did  release the SE 1 1/2 years AFTER the 6 was released? (Hint- there was plenty of money to be made, IE demand)

 

[MrAverigeUser]

The answer is right in front of you but most SE enthusiasts are simply blind to the obvious. Apple’s own actions speak louder than words.

4” form factor is a dying breed.

The 4.7” and larger devices have already replaced 4”.

There’s this endless argument that some people want 4”. There also people out there that want 3.5” phones and 11” MacBooks. That demand is dead or dying.

Your statement is very amusing..

I bet Tim Cook knows better than you:

https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-se-demand-outstripping-supply-says-apple/

I do not find immediately the source, but IIRC the extremely high demand worldwide for SE-Phones saved apple that year.
The 4" form-factor was the most produced and sold form factor EVER for apple. And I bet it still is.
I remember about 30 Million SE sold in less than 1,5 years....

so much for "dying demands" ....

 

[JPack]

So why did  release the SE 1 1/2 years AFTER the 6 was released? (Hint- there was plenty of money to be made, IE demand)

Sure, there was demand in 2016. We’re less than a week away from 2018.
[doublepost=1514314878][/doublepost]

Your statement is very amusing..

I bet Tim Cook knows better than you:

https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-se-demand-outstripping-supply-says-apple/

I do not find immediately the source, but IIRC the extremely high demand worldwide for SE-Phones saved apple that year.
The 4" form-factor was the most produced and sold form factor EVER for apple. And I bet it still is.
I remember about 30 Million SE sold in less than 1,5 years....

so much for "dying demands" ....

What’s more amusing is you’re parading that news as if time stood still.

Let’s also dig up an old article about how the iPhone 4 is outstripping supply.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Your statement is very amusing..

I bet Tim Cook knows better than you:

so much for "dying demands" ....

It's almost like some users just like to rock the boat (troll a bit) or for some reason "want" the SE and smaller form factors to die.

I have no idea why anyone would want such a direction.
Choice is great.

Apple's products are all becoming way too similar if you ask me.
Look at the laptops..

Would you like the:

-12" with unreliable low travel keyboard
-13.3" with same keyboard one more USB-C port
-13.3" with same keyboard, again USB-C only and mostly useless Touch Bar
-15" laptop - yeah, you also get the same unreliable keyboard, USB-C only and the Touch Bar, no choices for you..sorry for even asking or pretending there was a choice..

 

[JPack]

Certainly fine to speculate based upon that, but I hope you at least recognize how flawed any analysis might be with that as the data source.

While we are speculating, here's some fresh stuff about an SE2:

"Tekz24Tekz24, an India-based tech website, said that the new iPhone SE will look like its predecessor and will be equipped with the A10 processor, the iOS 11 operating system and a display of 4-4.2 inches. The new model will have 32GB and 128GB storage options, with a 1700mAh battery."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewansp...w-leak-rumor-a11-fourinch-small/#59071e113a0c

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201708040018.aspx

Let me know when Ming Chi Kuo says something.

An Indian website with no credibility or history is no better than random post on a forum. Except the website earns clicks.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@JPack

Will you at least agree to check back in the Spring and own it if you're wrong and there is in fact an SE2?

I'll be here - I'll own it if I'm wrong too..
Deal?

 

[DeepIn2U]

Esimated adoption numbers have released by a few sources. They all point to a small userbase for 4” iPhones. The link below shows the 5s userbase being larger than SE, which is indicative of users abandoning 4” or not willing to upgrade (price sensitive customers).

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/06/iphone-x-adoption-localytics/

The last time Apple talked about the popularity of SE was more than 18 months ago in 2016. Consumer preferences change over time.

Hmm.
When I add up the marketshare of the following models I get a total of 14.76%. This is more than the 7Plus, the 6S Plus, the 8 Plus, or the 6 Plus individually.

iPhone 4
iPhone 4S
iPhone 5
iPhone 5C
iPhone 5S
iPhone SE

The problem with statitics or the raw "Big Data" that so many corporations originally loved to consume and spit out is there is nothing relevant or cohesive about relationalizing that data ... not knowing capabilities to use it.

Example: The 4, 4S, 5, 5C models are no longer supported with iOS by Apple. They're 32-bit processors are end of life in terms of OS support and thus security support. Yes sync connectivity still exists, for now. My presumption is for those that had these models this long most likely replaced a battery at least once, repaired a screen or housing once, or purchased a replacement on kijiji, macrumors marketplace or elsewhere on the greymarket or will soon enough. Apple, as well as you, others in this thread or myself can easily surmise that these 'costs' eventually add-up to the end users that use these phones and think hey ... maybe it's time to buy an "SE" for the size, weight, performance along with iOS support and added feature of NFC for ApplePay (a convenience maybe not a need), and well accessories (5/5C/5S users at least) will work the same. Those with 4/4S maybe on their last string of working 30-pin cables as I'm starting to see these wane in large retail department stores, while more cheap cables show up having that knowing connectivity/charging reliability that comes with the cheap knock-offs. No I'm not saying everyone should be Apple's cables direct from Apple that just an assinine idea.

Still we should consider the majority of these older model users may upgrade to the SE, at least yesterday or today, Boxing Day, sooner rather than later. That or the other potential is they maybe likely to upgrade to larger screen iPhones as you surmise or finally defect to any of Apple's competitors or just remain satisfied with the phone that they have. So many variables.

At the end of the day:
No Sale is No Sale. Nadda.
No Sale means a Sale elsewhere if it's not in your coffers.
No Sale means no revenue for your services, and no use of those services is a notch for the reason maintaining, offering and R&D for such services should not exist (tiny increments but consider 12% to 21% over 6yrs for Apple services growth slowly over the years ... it starts somewhere).
No Sale means 1 less customer to spread the joy of your products and services (Free marketing), this could mean 5+ less sales per person that defects.

I'm willing to bet Apple is looking at the 3 in bold above.

PS: of those in this thread i'm curious who has:
Apple TV
Apple Watch
Pays for any iCloud services?

 

[JPack]

@JPack

Will you at least agree to check back in the Spring and own it if you're wrong and there is in fact an SE2?

I'll be here - I'll own it if I'm wrong too..
Deal?

Of course I will.

I’m just making observations about the 4” iPhone from an objective POV.

A company like Apple isn’t going to wait more than a year before refreshing their 4” iPhone, if there was demand.

There’s always going to be some demand for 4” but that doesn’t translate into a refreshed product for a niche market.

 

[turbineseaplane]

A company like Apple isn’t going to wait more than a year before refreshing their 4” iPhone, if there was demand.

They haven't - the storage increase this Spring qualifies as a refresh.
Also, not all products are (or need to be) on 1 year cycles.

The Apple TV comes to mind.

I think it's super healthy to have a product like the SE on more infrequent updates. Budget conscious and/or non feature front running users (like me) simply don't need or want a new device every year.

In fact, most general users don't anymore since the end of carrier subsidies.

[doublepost=1514315832][/doublepost]

There’s always going to be some demand for 4” but that doesn’t translate into a refreshed product for a niche market.

I agree..
You're actually making the argument for doing nothing but updating the internals, which most of us would love!

Just keep the camera & CPU somewhat in range of what's the latest recently and we are happy and the phone is cheap to make. Done. Sale.

 

[Martyimac]

Hmm.
When I add up the marketshare of the following models I get a total of 14.76%. This is more than the 7Plus, the 6S Plus, the 8 Plus, or the 6 Plus individually.

iPhone 4
iPhone 4S
iPhone 5
iPhone 5C
iPhone 5S
iPhone SE

The problem with statitics or the raw "Big Data" that so many corporations originally loved to consume and spit out is there is nothing relevant or cohesive about relationalizing that data ... not knowing capabilities to use it.

Example: The 4, 4S, 5, 5C models are no longer supported with iOS by Apple. They're 32-bit processors are end of life in terms of OS support and thus security support. Yes sync connectivity still exists, for now. My presumption is for those that had these models this long most likely replaced a battery at least once, repaired a screen or housing once, or purchased a replacement on kijiji, macrumors marketplace or elsewhere on the greymarket or will soon enough. Apple, as well as you, others in this thread or myself can easily surmise that these 'costs' eventually add-up to the end users that use these phones and think hey ... maybe it's time to buy an "SE" for the size, weight, performance along with iOS support and added feature of NFC for ApplePay (a convenience maybe not a need), and well accessories (5/5C/5S users at least) will work the same. Those with 4/4S maybe on their last string of working 30-pin cables as I'm starting to see these wane in large retail department stores, while more cheap cables show up having that knowing connectivity/charging reliability that comes with the cheap knock-offs. No I'm not saying everyone should be Apple's cables direct from Apple that just an assinine idea.

Still we should consider the majority of these older model users may upgrade to the SE, at least yesterday or today, Boxing Day, sooner rather than later. That or the other potential is they maybe likely to upgrade to larger screen iPhones as you surmise or finally defect to any of Apple's competitors or just remain satisfied with the phone that they have. So many variables.

At the end of the day:
No Sale is No Sale. Nadda.
No Sale means a Sale elsewhere if it's not in your coffers.
No Sale means no revenue for your services, and no use of those services is a notch for the reason maintaining, offering and R&D for such services should not exist (tiny increments but consider 12% to 21% over 6yrs for Apple services growth slowly over the years ... it starts somewhere).
No Sale means 1 less customer to spread the joy of your products and services (Free marketing), this could mean 5+ less sales per person that defects.

I'm willing to bet Apple is looking at the 3 in bold above.

PS: of those in this thread i'm curious who has:
Apple TV
Apple Watch
Pays for any iCloud services?

I have none of those 3 listed.

 

[turbineseaplane]

PS: of those in this thread i'm curious who has:
Apple TV
Apple Watch
Pays for any iCloud services?

I have several Apple TV's (3 4th gen & 1 4k model - only because it was "free" for trying out DirecTV Now)

I also pay the $10/month for 2TB of storage now that it can be shared with family - Good deal with that change. I consolidated away from Dropbox and use iCloud drive, like the backup room and mostly just like the ample photo storage and the seamless integration.

Apple watch I find to be of less than zero interest. You could give me one and I'd just put it on ebay or CL.

 

[JPack]

They haven't - the storage increase this Spring qualifies as a refresh.
Also, not all products are (or need to be) on 1 year cycles.

The Apple TV comes to mind.

I think it's super healthy to have a product like the SE on more infrequent updates. Budget conscious and/or non feature front running users (like me) simply don't need or want a new device every year.

Apple TV represents less than 5% of Apple’s revenues. iPhone represents two-thirds.

Let’s not confuse the importance of the two product families and pretend it’s ok for iPhone to be updated infrequently.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

Sure, there was demand in 2016. We’re less than a week away from 2018.
[doublepost=1514314878][/doublepost]

What’s more amusing is you’re parading that news as if time stood still.

Let’s also dig up an old article about how the iPhone 4 is outstripping supply.

The cited article was published July, 31 2016....

Your "trick" to talk about "old" iPhones is very amusing indeed... the SE was released march 2016, not even 18 months ago....

but ok:

may I cite a FORBES article of Nov 27 2017 ? 4 weeks ago is Perhaps not too old even for you?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewansp...w-leak-rumor-a11-fourinch-small/#21aec8af3a0c

" the iPhone SE has carved out a respectable place in Apple’s iPhone portfolio. It’s helped by being the only small-screened model available, but with similar levels of power to the iPhone 6S

It’s also approaching two years since it was launched, and if you look at the standard carrier contract, a lot of people are about to be looking for a new and comparable device. Some might migrate towards the $1000 beast of the iPhone X, some may take a slight jump up to the still available iPhone 6S. But the majority will more than likely be happy with ‘same again but with a few new features’.

The market is ready for a second iPhone SE model in early 2018."

 

[JPack]

I agree..
You're actually making the argument for doing nothing but updating the internals, which most of us would love!

Just keep the camera & CPU somewhat in range of what's the latest recently and we are happy and the phone is cheap to make. Done. Sale.

In case there was any ambiguity, no, I’m not.

Some niche demand doesn’t translate into a business case for a refreshed 4” iPhone.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Let’s not confuse the importance of the two product families and pretend it’s ok for iPhone to be updated infrequently.

It's a mistake to look at it this way.

The iPhone line is opening up (obviously) and there certainly is room for models that get updated less frequently. The SE is already a case of that frankly. Go talk to Apple Store employees. At least where I am, they attest to many many buyers of the SE, still.

It was good on Apple to spec it out so well from the outset.
It's almost like they had a plan to update it biennially

More SKU's, different target audiences, different price points - This is Tim Cook's MO.

So far, I find no compelling argument that an SE2 isn't possible and certainly not that it's a bad idea or anything.

We'll just have to agree to disagree for now.
Should be an interesting Spring.

 

[MrAverigeUser]

I bet we will see a second-generation SE until April 2018.

 

[Martyimac]

Apple TV represents less than 5% of Apple’s revenues. iPhone represents two-thirds.

Let’s not confuse the importance of the two product families and pretend it’s ok for iPhone to be updated infrequently.

I think folks place WAY to much emphasis on updates. Over the years I find most of the iphone updates really haven't gotten me much more in the way of useful items than previous phones. Better Camera? MEH. Haptic home button? Hated it.
The underneath things like better antennas, modems, battery life, yes those are great. But if my older phone has no issues with those things, why bother?
All my thoughts changed recently. The fact that I bought and then returned an 8 because the updates didn't impress me really was an epiphany for me when it came to buying every new phone that came out.
Yes the updates can be important but in my particular case, they aren't important enough to drop $700 on a new phone.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The fact that I bought and then returned an 8 because the updates didn't impress me really was an epiphany for me when it came to buying every new phone that came out.

I find more and more of my friends have had that same realization since the carrier subsidy model stopped.

 

[Martyimac]

I find more and more of my friends have had that same realization since the carrier subsidy model stopped.

But how does that relate to folks like me who don't use the carrier subsidy route?

 

[44267547]

Go talk to Apple Store employees. At least where I am, they attest to many many buyers of the SE, still.

This is not indicative of anything, and that's not an appropriate metric even remotely relevant to the iPhone SE based off talking to Apple store employees. They have a little insight regardless of what they see for sales and know as much as any other tech enthusiast does on a tech related website.

I could Make the same argument about my local Apple stores or carriers stating that the iPhone SE is the one phone that they never sell because of dated the form factor, even if it is a good iPhone.

Point is, this doesn't indicate anything based on Apple's direction for a future SE IF it does happen.

 

[turbineseaplane]

But how does that relate to folks like me who don't use the carrier subsidy route?

Sorry if I wasn't more clear..What I mean is that since people are now being asked to go out of pocket for the full amount (or large monthly bills) of the device, I've seen my friends all dramatically extend their upgrade cycles.

These are very tech-centric people and I know exactly 1 person with an 8 generation phone. No X. Everyone has 6/6s/7 generation phones (SE I bundle into 6s gen since it shares so many specs)

 

[JPack]

amusing that your defense line is now that low level... yes, replace "not even" by "just" 18 months

Now I stop that conversation - too childish....

Fact: March 31, 2016 to today is more than 20 months.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I have none of those 3 listed.

Um, what "3" listed are you referring to within my post? Surely not the phone models cause I've listed 5. Surely not the premise of what I assume/presume Apple's consideration path would be on the iPhone SE as a going forward concern of business as your reply seems out of context, so I'm confused.

Apple TV represents less than 5% of Apple’s revenues. iPhone represents two-thirds.

Let’s not confuse the importance of the two product families and pretend it’s ok for iPhone to be updated infrequently.

Well although the Apple TV represents 5% of Apple's revenue's as a product itself ... it's used as a gateway to the services Apple offers: iOS projection to the TV, Music, Movies & TV and a few Apps. Therein lies the jewel that is ATV. The "SE" as it's name designates was to be a 'limited' run which got updated in early 2017 for storage increase ... so I suspect the yearly update will come March/April 2018 as it's "infrequent" update will be right on time