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iPhone SE 4 Likely to Use Modified iPhone 14 Chassis
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It doesn't tell me what it told you since I have no idea how many forum members not only read this thread but also felt compelled to post a comment about their phone preference.
SE is marketed as a cheap, prepaid device also intended to attract Android switchers. People know exactly what they're getting for $429.
Some people here seem to want a mini for the price of an SE and then blame Apple for not putting in Pro features.
MR forum stats are wrong. Apple sales data is wrong. Android manufacturers are all wrong. Reviewers are wrong. Global consumer trends are wrong.
At some point, people should start listening to the converging evidence.
It’s because of price. SE is free on contract with Verizon Business. $29 for 128GB and $129 for 256GB. I work in local government and there are a ton of people using SEs. I don’t think the SE ever needed to be a consumer success, I would bet most of the sales are enterprise.
Couple of things at play undermining smaller, cheaper phones and touch id imo...
the issue of demand for smaller, cheaper phones... consumer or corporate driven?
do companies really want to push smaller, cheaper phones with smaller margins, or more expensive, larger phones with larger margins? bigger, more expensive phones = bigger margins... true, companies do respond to consumer demand, but they can also create it, and move it in a more desirable direction for their bottom line
Question RE the action button for those that have it, can the action button be activated without the screen lighting up? When using the mute switch it can be toggled without the screen lighting up, same for the action button?
the issue of demand for smaller, cheaper phones... consumer or corporate driven?
do companies really want to push smaller, cheaper phones with smaller margins, or more expensive, larger phones with larger margins? bigger, more expensive phones = bigger margins... true, companies do respond to consumer demand, but they can also create it, and move it in a more desirable direction for their bottom line
Question RE the action button for those that have it, can the action button be activated without the screen lighting up? When using the mute switch it can be toggled without the screen lighting up, same for the action button?
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It’s too bad Apple continues to use this overplayed 4 design. 12-15 is basically the 4 design as well.
I mean, let's think a minute.
The SE didn't sell significantly better than the mini. So the reason Apple keeps it in Stock must have to do with a) the fact that it is a more affordable entry into Apple's "ecosystem" and b) that they don't update it every year so they can spread design costs over a larger product lifetime and garner the required sales for the device over time.
Now lets consider what probably most people seek in a mini: a "pocketable" phone that does the most important things reasonable well, that can the latest iOS for security and compatibility reasons, and that mostly is used to communicate, not to consume content, play games or propel an influencer carreer. This kind of device also doesn't require annual updates. In fact it would probably get away with all 3-4 years and people would still buy it.
Maybe the reason the mini didn't do well has something to do with the assumption that people that anually or biannually upgrade expect more from their "phone" than being a phone. There's a reason the iPhone has become a camera device first, a media consumption device second and only somewhere on the later place an actual phone. I am willing to concede that the market for a high-priced premium / pro smartphone that's also small and compromises on battery capacity might be a niche too narrow to fill profitably.
So I would propose this: Don't make it a 14/15/16 mini but just .... the iPhone mini. An affordable feature limited communication focussed device that allows peeks and glimpses of what's possible on the more premium option - much like the SE, but for the crowd that actually want a phone with a decent messenger and maybe play the occassional round of Snake like in the good old Nokia days. It doesn't need 2 cameras, it doesn't need the ultra high resolution display. It would probably even benefit from an underclocked / binned SoC that otherwise would have been discarded.
It would also be a good entry device for younger folks that currently mostly inherit old iPhones from their parents and older siblings that look comically oversized on them. Plus I'm absolutely confident it would become the defacto standard in corporate settings.
Keep the SE as "the iPhone of yesteryear" to give people that do value those more smartphony things an affordable entry and to compete at least on price with android phones. But I'm rather confident a dedicated "iPhone mini" would have a market outside what Apple thinks of as the typical iPhone customer.
The SE didn't sell significantly better than the mini. So the reason Apple keeps it in Stock must have to do with a) the fact that it is a more affordable entry into Apple's "ecosystem" and b) that they don't update it every year so they can spread design costs over a larger product lifetime and garner the required sales for the device over time.
Now lets consider what probably most people seek in a mini: a "pocketable" phone that does the most important things reasonable well, that can the latest iOS for security and compatibility reasons, and that mostly is used to communicate, not to consume content, play games or propel an influencer carreer. This kind of device also doesn't require annual updates. In fact it would probably get away with all 3-4 years and people would still buy it.
Maybe the reason the mini didn't do well has something to do with the assumption that people that anually or biannually upgrade expect more from their "phone" than being a phone. There's a reason the iPhone has become a camera device first, a media consumption device second and only somewhere on the later place an actual phone. I am willing to concede that the market for a high-priced premium / pro smartphone that's also small and compromises on battery capacity might be a niche too narrow to fill profitably.
So I would propose this: Don't make it a 14/15/16 mini but just .... the iPhone mini. An affordable feature limited communication focussed device that allows peeks and glimpses of what's possible on the more premium option - much like the SE, but for the crowd that actually want a phone with a decent messenger and maybe play the occassional round of Snake like in the good old Nokia days. It doesn't need 2 cameras, it doesn't need the ultra high resolution display. It would probably even benefit from an underclocked / binned SoC that otherwise would have been discarded.
It would also be a good entry device for younger folks that currently mostly inherit old iPhones from their parents and older siblings that look comically oversized on them. Plus I'm absolutely confident it would become the defacto standard in corporate settings.
Keep the SE as "the iPhone of yesteryear" to give people that do value those more smartphony things an affordable entry and to compete at least on price with android phones. But I'm rather confident a dedicated "iPhone mini" would have a market outside what Apple thinks of as the typical iPhone customer.
I didn't want to deal with Face ID or gestures because I've seen too many people struggle.
Plus, I got the 2020 iPhone SE for free for each of 18 months, and I got the 2022 iPhone SE for US$1.25 per month. I also paid a one time price of $150 for the 256 GB model. Each had a trade-in phone.
I've had a OnePlus 8T and a Google Pixel 6a. The 8T is older and better, and was good enough to be a switcher's phone with controls where I expected them, including a mute button.
Honestly the foreign markets seem like a good target for a mini. Idk if it’s still this way now but back when subsidies were rare and it was more common to pay for the whole phone up front the cheaper iPhones were a lot more common in 3rd and 2nd world countries.
I've been looking at the overall dimensions of standard iPhone vs. SE and there's really not a huge difference. Getting a bigger screen and longer battery life in a slightly bigger device seems like a great thing to me. I think Apple wants a clear hierarchy of phones with the Pro models getting the latest, the regular phone getting one generation old and the SE getting two generations old. I'm OK with that because the previous strategy of putting the latest CPU into a seriously compromised phone has never made me happy. Battery life, in particular, is atrocious. I'm an extremely light user: no videos, no social media, no games, yet my current SE struggles to make it though the work day.
I don't know if Apple understand that the success of iPhones SE 2020/2022 is due to users who like:
1. Compact and lightweight iPhone
2. Can't use flickering OLED screen
3.Touch ID
4. Inexpensive price
I understand why the iPhone Mini was unsuccessful. It can only offer compact size and weight, otherwise it has all the same problems as more expensive models.
1. Compact and lightweight iPhone
2. Can't use flickering OLED screen
3.Touch ID
4. Inexpensive price
I understand why the iPhone Mini was unsuccessful. It can only offer compact size and weight, otherwise it has all the same problems as more expensive models.
Frankly I believe the reverse is true. Price might matter more in those economies, but due to that fact IF you gonna put down that much money for a smartphone it better be big since, no, you probably can't afford a tablet and/or laptop in addition to that. Which is also the same reason I believe bigger phones win with younger folks.
Not needing a big phone because you have plenty of bigger screens around kinda is a luxury.
no home button = malfunctioning usability . Now you have to constantly show your face to the camera
what Jpack said here basically , people would put 24 inch tv in their pockets if they could
what Jpack said here basically , people would put 24 inch tv in their pockets if they could
Problem is most people are not putting any money down, monthly charges through their carriers is the way it works. The Mini was never marketed heavily, if you walked into a carrier's store, they never would even mention the Mini, if you did, they would steer you away from it, also with an inferior battery and camera, especially the battery, Apple is already crippling it and souring people on the Mini concept who otherwise might have tried it.
Price is not a factor when the carriers offer better deals on the Pro and Max models, most people are paying per month with their data plans, if everyone had to shell out the full price for these phones, I suspect the SE and Mini would seriously have cut into the sales of the Pro and Max phones.
So this is one more arguments towards pricing not being the issue. I agree that battery was the mini's primary achilles heel from a feature perspective.
No I think that is a perfectly acceptable view now that I think about it. I've always had a bunch of tech since I was a kid, Playstation Portable, Laptop and of course a custom PC so I suppose I never had this issue but now that I think about it even a lot of adults I know do not have a computer for anything other than work and mainly sit on their smartphones.
I know of students that actually type notes on their phones in class. One apparently even has a magic keyboard to keep up with typing. I mean ..... there is an argument to be made that this being possible is kinda amazing.