I respectfully disagree. I'm on board with the not many people want a small phone anymore. Well they want a small physical body but the biggest screen possible. 4" really? The screen looks like a toy. It's time for Apple to ditch the bezels.
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iPhone SE Component Costs Estimated to Start at $160
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I respectfully disagree. I'm on board with the not many people want a small phone anymore. Well they want a small physical body but the biggest screen possible. 4" really? The screen looks like a toy. It's time for Apple to ditch the bezels.
Yes, design development was quite expensive this time. Also, assembling 100 of those guys costs a whole bowl of rice and a suicide net.
LOL...it's all about perspective. I've been around smartphones long enough that I remember the launch of the first iPhone, the 3.5 inch screen was considered absolutely huge. And at the time no one was asking for anything that big. So it's funny to me now how people have become screen size crazy and in such a short period of time at that. Did we all become giants in the last nine years? LOL
My friend, whether you want one or not, there is still a large market for a 4 inch phone. However, there is no market for a three year old design.
I hope it cost nothing for Samsung to 'maintain' its TouchWiz UI because its a total piece of crap.
Just stop it dude. Samsung has been found GUILTY of copying Apple IP multiple times already. Get a grip. Everyone knows Samsung is a copy machine without any ability to innovate.
LOL... In case you don't know, Apple pretty much lost all the cases around world. In United States, courts has overturned several verdicts. So there ya go.
And you are pretty much ignored all the things that I motioned about Samsung. I never understood the mentalities where people like you thinks everyone is copying Apple. But the fact is Apple is also guilty of copying others.
What ratio of 16/64/128 buyers are you using in your calculations?
That's a bit over dramatic. They of course have more than a "zero idea".
BOM estimates are also reported for major Android phones from Samsung, HTC, etc.
We just don't hear about them on an Apple fan site.
That's over all their products including Macs, not their net profit margin on iPhones, which is reportedly closer to 30%.
Even at that, Samsung mobile is still taking in billions of dollars a quarter. As people are fond of saying here, I would love to have their income problems
Smaller phone makers have gotten by with under 10% margins for years. So have many other factories. Heck, Foxconn's profit margins dropped down around 3% because of Apple for many years.
Yet we also see Apple cutting corners on their own devices.
Strawman. Apple doesn't pay BILLIONS to keep up iOS.
And the major Android phone makers actually employ quite a few people to customize and maintain their own Android implementations.
There is no way on earth iPhones profit margin is 30%
Last year iPhone had $155 billion in sales.
Not multiply that by 30% profit margin and you get $46.5 billion in iPhone profit.
The entire Apple made $53 billion in profit.
That means the rest of the company made only $6.5 billion in profit.
The rest of the company besides iPhone only had a profit margin of 8%
NO WAY IN HELL.
Are you telling me iPad/Mac/Accessories/AppStore/AppleTV (everything besides iPhone) only had an 8% profit margin? Get real.
As you can see from that calculation there is NO WAY iPhone is 30% profit margin. Its closer to low/mid 20% margins.
Its so frustrating when people spew out total bullcrap based on bullcrap reports.
Go to THE SOURCE - Apple filings with the SEC to find out the truth. So much bullcrap and these component reports are full of it.
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Nope. Samsung is still guilty and fined several hundred millions of dollars. They are appealing the case but will most likely lose. Just stop.
I'll leave you with a picture
There is no way on earth iPhones profit margin is 30%
Last year iPhone had $155 billion in sales.
Not multiply that by 30% profit margin and you get $46.5 billion in iPhone profit.
The entire Apple made $53 billion in profit.
That means the rest of the company made only $6.5 billion in profit.
The rest of the company besides iPhone only had a profit margin of 8%
NO WAY IN HELL.
Are you telling me iPad/Mac/Accessories/AppStore/AppleTV (everything besides iPhone) only had an 8% profit margin? Get real.
As you can see from that calculation there is NO WAY iPhone is 30% profit margin. Its closer to low/mid 20% margins.
Its so frustrating when people spew out total bullcrap based on bullcrap reports.
Go to THE SOURCE - Apple filings with the SEC to find out the truth. So much bullcrap and these component reports are full of it.
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Nope. Samsung is still guilty and fined several hundred millions of dollars. They are appealing the case but will most likely lose. Just stop.
I'll leave you with a picture
Oh great. So you just ingored cases around the world. Apple lost its case in Germany, Apple has to issue public apology in UK, Apple also lost its case in Australia. Just stop man.
Oh, how many times Apple being sued for violation of copyright? Or you think everyone suing Apple is pentent troll?
Just look at the picture I posted holmes.
What ever dude. I'm done talking to you about Samsung.
This is like Coca Cola arguing with a generic soda.
Sorry man. Samsung is small time, minor league compared to Apple. Waste my time arguing about Samsung. They are so small player at this point. like a piece of dust.
Well good luck with Samsung. Hope they don't go bankrupt in a couple years and sell only washers and driers.
The market has spoken. Samsung sales are tanking each year. Most of their sales are cheap POS phones. Each year they sell less and less high end phones. In the mid range the Chinese companies like Xiaomi is killing them.
Apple is killing it.
Samsung is getting killed.
Samsung may make some flashy phones but the market has spoken and as a whole has rejected their top end phones.
In Dec2012 Samsung Mobile division made 5.4 Trillion Won
In Dec2015 Samsung Mobile division made only 2.2 Trillion Won
Their profits are DOWN by 60% since 2012.
They are done.
Toast.
Killed.
Samsung is a bit player.
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Agreed. The cost of the OS and software need to be include. Plus shipping. Plus advertising. And then you have Jony's big bonus to think about
Yeah but the REAL Gorilla in this room is the obnoxious shareholders who are never happy with any % gains.
There reports are silly because they are NOT based on facts and the information is incomplete.
To get complete and accurate information you must go to Apple's SEC filings. These filings are accurate. If they are not then Tim Cook and other Apple executives could be sent to jail.
Here are the facts about Apple in 2015:
Total Sales: $234 billion
Total iPhone Sales: $155 billion
Total Profit: $53 billion
With that information we can test the reasonableness of certain profit margin claims.
Some say iPhone's profit margins are 30%
But if that's true than the rest of Apple's profit margin is only 8%
Do you seriously think Apple only makes 8% profit on Mac, iPad, Watch, and App Store sales?
30% Profit margin on iPhone is unreasonable.
Below are profit margins for iPhone and what the rest of Apple's profit margins would have to be based on SEC filings (iPhone sales, Apple sales, Profit):
If iPhone profit margin is 40% THEN
Rest of the companies profit margin is -11%
If iPhone profit margin is 30% THEN
Rest of the companies profit margin is 8%
If iPhone profit margin is 25% THEN
Rest of the companies profit margin is 18%
Which one of these are reasonable? IMO, the 25% profit margin is reasonable. No way iPad, Mac, Watch, Accessories, App Store, AppleTV profit margin is below 10%.
But if you are stubborn and claim that Apple's profit margins on the iPhone is 30% then you have to admit that the Mac/iPad/Watch margins are 8%. There is no way around it. It is basic MATH based on SEC reports that are as close to FACT as you can get.
To get complete and accurate information you must go to Apple's SEC filings. These filings are accurate. If they are not then Tim Cook and other Apple executives could be sent to jail.
Here are the facts about Apple in 2015:
Total Sales: $234 billion
Total iPhone Sales: $155 billion
Total Profit: $53 billion
With that information we can test the reasonableness of certain profit margin claims.
Some say iPhone's profit margins are 30%
But if that's true than the rest of Apple's profit margin is only 8%
Do you seriously think Apple only makes 8% profit on Mac, iPad, Watch, and App Store sales?
30% Profit margin on iPhone is unreasonable.
Below are profit margins for iPhone and what the rest of Apple's profit margins would have to be based on SEC filings (iPhone sales, Apple sales, Profit):
If iPhone profit margin is 40% THEN
Rest of the companies profit margin is -11%
If iPhone profit margin is 30% THEN
Rest of the companies profit margin is 8%
If iPhone profit margin is 25% THEN
Rest of the companies profit margin is 18%
Which one of these are reasonable? IMO, the 25% profit margin is reasonable. No way iPad, Mac, Watch, Accessories, App Store, AppleTV profit margin is below 10%.
But if you are stubborn and claim that Apple's profit margins on the iPhone is 30% then you have to admit that the Mac/iPad/Watch margins are 8%. There is no way around it. It is basic MATH based on SEC reports that are as close to FACT as you can get.
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I would be surprised if that happens. Apple has never left an iPhone model price ride for more than a year. The reality is that the SE is functionally the same tech as the 6s, and it's priced $250 less than the 6s. When the 6s drops from $649 to $549 in September, the SE will suddenly seem a lot more expensive -- and old -- than it does now, especially when the 6 will have dropped to be priced only $50 above it. What saves it is a good old fashioned price dropped.
If Apple intends to maintain a 4" phone, then I would expect to see the SE's future replacement a year from now in the form of a premium 4" 7 model, at which time they have an opportunity to drop the SE down to $299, and expand the customer base who previously couldn't afford the Apple ecosystem, thereby growing their iTunes and Pay business. Eventually the iPhone SE replaces the iPod Touch in that price range.
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So we went from who is copying who to who is making more money? I love how your logic works. If you cannot win the argument, just change the topic.
And you are talking to a person never used Samsung phone and will never buy Samsung phone.
Frankly. I care less about how much Apple or Samsung makes. That has nothing to do with me.
And the market has spoken, iPhone's sale is declining and will decline even further. The only reason Apple makes billions of money is they rip you off hard and you don't even realize that.
By the way, I don't understand why you have hard time to understand there is no direct relationship between how much money one company can make and how much innovation one company can make. Stop living at your Apple fantasy world and the world is wider than you think.
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iPhone sales declining? LOL. Temporarily only.
They may have a slight decline in the March/June quarter but this was expected. When the iPhone6 came out there was pent up demand for larger iPhones. Thus the iPhone6 sales last year were amazing and really an anamoly for multiple years of demand for larger iPhones.
When the iPhone7 comes out in the Fall you will see iPhone units grow again.
It hilarious when people like you say Apple succeeds because they rip off people. LOLOLOL. So hilarious. Its been proven that richer, more educated, and more successful people buy iPhones vs Android. And yet you still think iPhones success is because they rip off people without them knowing? LOL.
You are the one living in a fantasy world.
FACT - Apple is the most valuable company in the world
FACT - Apple has the most powerful brand in the world
FACT - Apple makes the most profits
FACT - Apple is dominating mobile profits, laptop profits, wearables profits, Tablet profits, set top box profits, App store profits, desktop profits
FACT - Apple has over a BILLION active devices
FACT - Apple's customer satisfaction rate is 99%
But keep dreaming in a dream world where every one else is 'idiots' for being ripped off by Apple and you stand alone as a consumer genius who refuses to be ripped off by Apple.
Holy crap... Are you for real? This is most ridiculous comment I ever seen.
First of all, your logic is becuase Apple makes most amount of money, Apple must be the only innovatior, iPhone must be automatically better. This logic does not even make any kind of sense.
Second: there is no shortage of poor, uneducated people using iPhone. And there is no shortage of well edcuated and rich people use Android and BlackBerry.
Thirdly: all the most valuable company crap are just temporary as well. Most valuable crap is just how people value one company. It has nothing to do with the innovation, creativity.
I could afford to buy iPhone 6S, 6S Plus, iPad Pro and SE off contract one go. But I am not doing so, becuase I don't see the value of iPhone compare with its prices.
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LOL.
Apple isn't an innovator? What about the iPod, iPhone, iPad? What about TouchID, ApplePay, 64bit mobile chips, A-series chips? What about Retina screen, 3D touch? What about the most successful smart watch on the planet? What about the best laptops? What about the creation of iTunes and the App Store? What about the advances in medical research using health kit? For you to question Apple's innovation is ridiculous.
You say some poor people buy Apple product. And some rich buy Android. I say the exception proves the rule. Just do your own research at its clear = rich, educated, and successful people are more likely to have an iPhone. Its a fact.
You say being the most valuable company is random based on opinions on Wall Street. Fine. But Apple still makes the most profits. That is not random. All I'm saying is Apple is amazingly successful no matter how you measure success.
I'm sure you can afford Apple product but in YOUR CASE its not worth the price. That does not mean its not worth the price for OTHERS. Yet you make a blanket statement that Apple is RIPPING OFF EVERYONE. Whos the fanboy now? Are you questioning that for OTHERS buying Apple product is not a good value? Really?
Bottom line is Apple is super successful. You cannot deny that. It took Apple under Steve Jobs 35 years to reach $100 billion in annual sales. In the last 4 years Apple has DOUBLED sales to over $230 billion. Yet you say Apple is going down hill. LOL!
LOL.
Apple isn't an innovator? What about the iPod, iPhone, iPad? What about TouchID, ApplePay, 64bit mobile chips, A-series chips? What about Retina screen, 3D touch? What about the most successful smart watch on the planet? What about the best laptops? What about the creation of iTunes and the App Store? What about the advances in medical research using health kit? For you to question Apple's innovation is ridiculous.
You say some poor people buy Apple product. And some rich buy Android. I say the exception proves the rule. Just do your own research at its clear = rich, educated, and successful people are more likely to have an iPhone. Its a fact.
You say being the most valuable company is random based on opinions on Wall Street. Fine. But Apple still makes the most profits. That is not random. All I'm saying is Apple is amazingly successful no matter how you measure success.
I'm sure you can afford Apple product but in YOUR CASE its not worth the price. That does not mean its not worth the price for OTHERS. Yet you make a blanket statement that Apple is RIPPING OFF EVERYONE. Whos the fanboy now? Are you questioning that for OTHERS buying Apple product is not a good value? Really?
Bottom line is Apple is super successful. You cannot deny that. It took Apple under Steve Jobs 35 years to reach $100 billion in annual sales. In the last 4 years Apple has DOUBLED sales to over $230 billion. Yet you say Apple is going down hill. LOL!
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For example, the Gorilla Glass display in the iPhone SE is estimated to be one of the most expensive components, coming in at a price of $20. When that display was originally used in the iPhone 5s, it was more than twice as expensive. When the iPhone 5s was released in 2013, in fact, its costs were estimated to be at $199 and with Apple's most recent flagship iPhone 6s Plus, component costs were estimated to start at $236.
That's perhaps the most disappointing part of the news. The reason why the glass is so much cheaper now is simple: it's Gorilla Glass 3. Now that Corning started selling much better Gorilla Glass 4 (which is used in iPhone 6S) obviously the price of the outdated product went down. Well, this is something people switching from 6S to 5SE should keep in mind (the fact that the glass is much less scratch resistant).
That's perhaps the most disappointing part of the news. The reason why the glass is so much cheaper now is simple: it's Gorilla Glass 3. Now that Corning started selling much better Gorilla Glass 4 (which is used in iPhone 6S) obviously the price of the outdated product went down. Well, this is something people switching from 6S to 5SE should keep in mind (the fact that the glass is much less scratch resistant).
You could be right or I could be right, Apple has been a little less predictable the last little while. I personally don't think the 6 & 6 Plus will be sticking around in the fall when the 7 series is released and the 6s series moves to the middle tier. I can see Apple further discounting the SE in certain developing markets (like India) to gain market share in those countries but I can't see it happening in markets like North America. I also think that the future of the 4" iPhone depends on how the SE sells. The SE exists because the 5s was still selling well for an entry level device... I don't think Apple has decided if and when there will be another 4" device released yet.
Their reports are not silly, you are just misinterpreting them. You are talking about profit margins and they are not. They are talking about the cost of components. This cost is one variable in profit margin equation but there are many others: cost of OS design, Tom Cook salary, cost of the new Apple headquarters etc.
Margins are an important piece of the puzzle, indeed. Of course the other big factor for Apple is their huge sales volumes (most iPhones) due to (usually) very well and thoughtfully designed products that resonate with a broad base of customers in a big way. Either way, Apple remains the most profitable company on earth in recent analyses.
Opinion:
After 15 years of enterprise systems integration, I've observed that Microsoft dupes or schmoozes a comparatively limited number of clueless corporate executives into huge contracts for their slopware and most recently turned their relatively well-performing OS into a brazen ad engine (for 'free'!). I've worked on MS garbage extensively (equally alongside the J2EE/Linux side of things) and conclude without reservation it is some of the worst-designed stuff ever to cross a CPU (IBM's garbage notwithstanding...but that's another story).
Google is simply force-fed dump trucks of cash by the advertising industry which floats their whole boat.
Apple is profitable due to cool stuff. The rest are profitable due to predatory tactics and gaming a broken economic model.
I know which legacy I'd prefer.
/dismount_soapbox
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I think Apple will be keeping the 6/6+, for the same reason I expect them to drop the price of the SE again, sooner rather than later -- to attract the Android converts with an Android-sized phone for $100 less than Apple has ever offered that size iPhone.
The SE is amazing for what it is, but it's only $50 less than the 5s before it. It's still a far cry from an attractive low budget option for people who haven't previously been able to afford iPhones, and the 4" screen doesn't help it any.
I agree it's hard to know what Apple will do from their actions as of late, but the fact that they are running out of premium markets in which to expand the iPhone, means that growth must necessarily slow. The only place left for them to grow is the low end segment, and sadly that's the fastest growing segment worldwide, and at the expense of the market that traditionally supported Apple's premium brand growth.
However, while I agree the SE is a test for the 4" phone, if Apple is to introduce a premium 4" phone during the first year of the 7, they have to be designing and spending R&D on the phone now. So it's unlikely they will discard that work. In which case, the latest I would expect them to release a new 4" phone is 18 months with the introduction of the 7s, assuming the usual life cycle of the iPhone. But to the extent Apple intends to keep a 4" phone in the lineup -- and 30 million units is not insignificant, so I would expect they will -- then they will need a replacement for the SE, so the sooner they release it the faster they can depreciate it. The idea being that Apple has never released a completely redesigned iPhone (inside and out) without charging a premium price for it. So the sooner they do it, the longer they can charge a premium for it -- Another reason the SE wasn't a completely redesigned 4" 6s, which has less than 6 months before it's the old phone (both inside and out).
The only thing that might make them wait until the 7s is this rumor that the leaks of the 7 look so much like the 6, that the 7s must be some radical redesign. If that's the case then they would be foolish to release a 7-styled 4" phone. On the other hand, if the 7s is going to be such a radical redesign, then it would have made financial sense to create a 6s 4" now. Except for one thing -- Apple is trying to create a more compelling entry level experience to the iPhone to expand market growth, and the 5s was the least expensive way to do that.
The only thing we can both agree on 100% it seems is that there's no telling what Apple will do next.
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I have already shown earlier that R&D is about $20 per iphone in this thread.
Manufacturing costs are about $8. http://cdn.ihs.com/Technology/Share...Images/Press Releases/2011-10-19_iPhone4S.jpg
Apple's guidance for the second quarter of fiscal 2015 includes expected revenue of $52-55 billion and gross margin between 38.5 and 39.5 percent.
Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2015/01/27/apple-earnings-1q15/
And the definition of gross profit/gross margin:Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2015/01/27/apple-earnings-1q15/
Gross profit is the profit a company makes after deducting the costs associated with making and selling its products, or the costs associated with providing its services. ...Also called "gross margin," "sales profit" and "gross income".
Source: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp
So who are these build reports for? who benefits from these reports? Not the consumer. Not the retail store.
Who exactly is suppose to benefit from this?
The report will mislead much more people than inform. I hear 10x more people say that 'Apple rips off people and makes over 60% profits on iPhone' then I hear people say "but there are other costs associated with iPhone'.
The report is made to mislead. PERIOD. Tell me who benefits from this report.
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Gross Profit does not include the cost of selling the product or admin cost or R&D cost.
Again stop relying on outside information but rely on Apple's SEC reports.
Apple is providing the following guidance for its fiscal 2016 second quarter:
- revenue between $50 billion and $53 billion
- gross margin between 39 percent and 39.5 percent
- operating expenses between $6 billion and $6.1 billion
- other income/(expense) of $325 million
- tax rate of 25.5 percent
The $6 billion in operating expenses is not included in the Gross profit calculation. And neither is the taxes.
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Here is who (from Yahoo Finance):
Business Summary
IHS Inc. provides information, insights, and analytics to multinational companies, governments, small companies, and technical professionals in various industries worldwide. The company operates through three segments: Resources, Transportation, and Consolidated Markets & Solutions (CMS). The Resources segment offers information and analysis on wells, pipeline miles, regulatory and mineral rights documents, oil and gas fields, basins, operating assets, and power and industrial plants; data for manufacturing processes; and capital expenditure, cost, price, production, trade, demand, and capacity industry analysis and forecasts, as well as training, strategy development, and project development services. This segment also hosts annual conferences related to these industries. It serves oil and gas, coal, power and utilities, and chemicals industries. The Transportation segment offers analysis and forecasts of sales and production for light vehicles, medium and heavy commercial vehicles, powertrains, components, and technology systems; and performance measurement tools and marketing solutions for car makers, dealers, and agencies. This segment also provides maritime and trade content and analytics services; and aerospace, defense, and security content and analytics services. The CMS segment offers product design solutions, which provide information and insights to design products, engineering projects, solve technical problems, and address supply chain challenges; and technology, media, and telecom solutions comprising insights and tools for managing technology parts. This segment also provides information, research, and tools, which support a range of commercial decisions and processes, including capital investments, country-entry strategies, acquisitions, annual strategic planning processes, and monthly/quarterly production and sales forecasts. IHS Inc. was founded in 1959 and is headquartered in Englewood, Colorado.
Nobody said Apple is not innovator, but Apple is not the ONLY innovator. You guys try to come up ******** like Samsung or Android OEMs only copy not innovate. That is completely bull crap.
Past successes does not automtically mean future success, this is especially true for tech sector. There is no doubt that Apple is massively success company in the past few years and it is very successful right now.
Current Apple under Tim Cook is more like past Microsoft under Steve Balmer. Both companies had visionary founder, then successed by pure business man.
Apple under Tim is no longer the one under Steve. Can you honestly say Apple still has amount influence as before? When iPhone comes along, whole smartphone industry changed. When Apple started iPad, the way people use tablet changed. But few years on, Apple is no longer the leading force, it is lagging behind. Just look at Apple Music, iPad Pro and Apple Watch. Most of those are almost seems after thought than Apple really put deep though on those product. There is really no unquie factors with those products.
The worst part is Apple startd to appealing to wide crowed. When majority wants big screen, Apple had iPhone 6 and iPhone 6S. When people wants small screen, Apple have a lazy creation iPhone SE. When people wants stylus, Apple did iPad Pro and Apple Pencil. When people wants cheap iPhone, you get iPhone SE. Current Apple is no longer the Apple under Steve Jobs.
Apple is just keeping its old monument and how long does this monument can last is up to see.