Juicy Box
macrumors 604
You are wrong about this.
Apple makes decisions like this for business reasons, and those reasons don’t always match the wishes of their users and potential users.
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iPhone SE Makes Third Appearance on Apple's Clearance Store at $249—Act Fast
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Apple makes decisions like this for business reasons, and those reasons don’t always match the wishes of their users and potential users.
If enough people wanted it AND would hold out for it, the business follows the customer demand.
Mac 128
macrumors 603
Colonel Blimp
macrumors 6502
True, but how many are “enough”? Remember that Apple aggressively prune their offerings to a very small number that they judge will suit most of their potential customers well. They do not, and since after the dark days of Michael Spindler in the late ’90s, never have tried to please every potential customer, even when there is profit to be made.
For Apple, it’s all about focus, and nowadays, it seems, often about focus on products with huge volumes (with some exceptions like the iMac Pro that Apple judge to be important to their ecosystem).
There could be tens, possibly even hundreds of millions of dollars to be made selling smaller iPhones, and Apple wouldn’t try to chase that market. (I’d be delighted if they would, having just bought a brand new iPhone SE on clearance, but I don’t expect that they will.)
But a few years from now? I wouldn’t dream of predicting what the fashion in screen sizes will be a few years from now, and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if tastes start to swing back.
Juicy Box
macrumors 604
I don't disagree.
But, I think that if there was a cheaper, smaller iPhone with modern internals, there would be demand for it. Most likely not as many as the large iPhones, but still a demand.
I think from a business perspective, Apple feels like every iPhone SE2 sold would be a lack of a sale of a more expensive iPhone.
And like you said, there isn't enough people that would hold out for an SE2, and will just buy the next best thing.
Plutonius
macrumors G4
I don't believe that Apple will not allow iOS 13 on the SE (iOS 13 will run on the SE).
Too many people recently bought the SE to have it go obsolete.
Colonel Blimp
macrumors 6502
Indeed. It would be very unlike Apple to drop OS support only one year after discontinuing the iPhone SE.
No, it’s not...the evidence is in front of you and you’re making this complicated. Capitalism delivers what people want, end of story.
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I’m basically saying Apple executes a winning strategy better than any company on earth. They have the ability to make almost 3X as much profit as the second most profitable company. That is insane. If also means they understand the consumer better than anyone and certainly better than us.
Colonel Blimp
macrumors 6502
Ha! Tell that to the tens of thousands of homeless (including families with little children) sleeping in tents on the sidewalks here in Los Angeles. I think the truth is a wee bit more complicated.
But we digress.
HeadphoneAddict
macrumors 65816
I would have liked to see Apple keep the iPhone SE in their lineup. Rather than it cannibalizing the newer iPhone sales I believe that it would supplement sales - from either people who could not afford the bigger phones at $449 for a 32GB iPhone 7, or who have very small hands and hate the big phones that lack headphone jacks (like my daughter).
But I understand why they had to stop selling it - someday they will have to drop support and they can't do that if people are still covered by AppleCare+ on a new SE that they bought less than 2 years prior.
The iPhone 5s and 6 have not aged well as far as responsiveness, but the 6s and SE have quite a bit better performance. So that's another reason why it would be nuts for apple to remove support for them in iOS 13. These phones feel 2x as fast as the older iPhone 6 which was hardly any faster than a 5s. The SE and 6s are still very useable, and in everyday tasks don't feel much slower than a 7 or 8.
So I believe that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE PISSED if support for SE is dropped for iOS 13, especially since Apple was still selling them in the regular lineup until last September 2018 (6 months ago) and on Clearance as recently as March 2019, with available 2 yr AppleCare+ coverage. If someone buys a new iPhone from Apple in Sept 2018 and they drop support for iOS 13 in Sept 2019 it will be a cluster!*^# of epic proportions.
People were less upset about iPhone 5 not supporting iOS 11, because Apple Apple still supported them for 4 more years after the last new one was sold (they supported it from iOS 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10). They didn't even keep the 5 in the lineup as a discounted previous year phone - it was gone after 12 months, and supported for 5 versions of iOS. But if iOS 13 is not supported on the SE, then it means they drop support only ONE year after canceling it. Not gonna happen.
Especially if you count the NEW clearance SE's sold in March 2019 - there is no way Apple would discontinue support in iOS 13 on a 6 month old phone sold on clearance that same year. That's why I believe they had to stop selling the iPhone SE when they did, so that they can drop support for iOS 14 or more likely iOS 15 and not get sued.
They were even still selling the iPad Mini 4 with the same A8 as the iPhone 6 until just a week ago, and that's one generation behind the iPhone SE processor. If they drop new iOS support for these older phones and iPads before people's 2-year AC+ runs out, watch out.
But I understand why they had to stop selling it - someday they will have to drop support and they can't do that if people are still covered by AppleCare+ on a new SE that they bought less than 2 years prior.
The iPhone 5s and 6 have not aged well as far as responsiveness, but the 6s and SE have quite a bit better performance. So that's another reason why it would be nuts for apple to remove support for them in iOS 13. These phones feel 2x as fast as the older iPhone 6 which was hardly any faster than a 5s. The SE and 6s are still very useable, and in everyday tasks don't feel much slower than a 7 or 8.
So I believe that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE PISSED if support for SE is dropped for iOS 13, especially since Apple was still selling them in the regular lineup until last September 2018 (6 months ago) and on Clearance as recently as March 2019, with available 2 yr AppleCare+ coverage. If someone buys a new iPhone from Apple in Sept 2018 and they drop support for iOS 13 in Sept 2019 it will be a cluster!*^# of epic proportions.
People were less upset about iPhone 5 not supporting iOS 11, because Apple Apple still supported them for 4 more years after the last new one was sold (they supported it from iOS 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10). They didn't even keep the 5 in the lineup as a discounted previous year phone - it was gone after 12 months, and supported for 5 versions of iOS. But if iOS 13 is not supported on the SE, then it means they drop support only ONE year after canceling it. Not gonna happen.
Especially if you count the NEW clearance SE's sold in March 2019 - there is no way Apple would discontinue support in iOS 13 on a 6 month old phone sold on clearance that same year. That's why I believe they had to stop selling the iPhone SE when they did, so that they can drop support for iOS 14 or more likely iOS 15 and not get sued.
They were even still selling the iPad Mini 4 with the same A8 as the iPhone 6 until just a week ago, and that's one generation behind the iPhone SE processor. If they drop new iOS support for these older phones and iPads before people's 2-year AC+ runs out, watch out.
netdog
macrumors 603
I see tons of SE's in upscale London. Many more than I see XRs and I almost never see the XS Match.
Nerds don't seem to get it, but a lot of people who can afford any phone they want often don't care about what the latest and greatest is, but they just want a phone that suits their needs.
Given the size (and smart design), many people who could have whatever phone they want, have chosen to keep using their SE's rather than getting one of the more recent jumbo-trons.
And anecdotal evidence can be very useful. Particularly if it is relatively expansive sample size. Yes, most people are seduced by Jumbo-Trons, or they actually have use for them in many cases, but many also find that a smaller phone suits their needs, and I think a number of us are finding this cry that "they don't want that!" actually fits the definition of tedious.
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What you see isn’t useful. Think about how many phones 215M really is. You can’t even visualize it.
Again, you’re making this too hard. Apple has all the data and the SE doesn’t exist...for a reason.
Free markets deliver what people want. Capitalism can exist in a free market, or an in what we have now, a market highly regulated for the benefit of monopolists. Monopolists extract Monopoly rents, which is what Apple now does.
Apple is nothing close to a monopoly. Not close. Read a lot more about monopolies and come back.Free markets deliver what people want. Capitalism can exist in a free market, or an in what we have now, a market highly regulated for the benefit of monopolists. Monopolists extract Monopoly rents, which is what Apple now does.
Bawstun
Suspended
There isn’t one made anymore, so we can’t really name one. That’s why the iPhone SE has the following that it does.
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It make TONS of sense but Bay never listens.
I’ve already mentioned how the SE is a budget device for prepaid services. Apple doesn’t care if you’re on Straight Talk, Family Mobile, Metro PCS, Boost or any of the carriers using an SE. Many of these prepaid places sell the SE for $50 sometimes even free. It gets people otherwise priced out of the Apple ecosystem, INTO the ecosystem, with an account, downloading and purchasing apps etc. it gets them in.
There is so much value to the SE, a largely ignored and overlooked sense of value I’d argue.
You don’t have any idea the “following” the SE has. Only Apple does and it’s not enough to warrant a new one. Period.
Bawstun
Suspended
I take public transit daily and have for years and years. I see a large selection of phones and what people are using - I live near Tempe, Arizona, a college town where Arizona State University is located.
I can tell you for a fact that I see many, many iPhone SE’s in the wild in the hands of these college kids. The iPhone SE has much value. It’s a younger generation / cash-strapped device. The flagship device is more professional / elite now in a sense. If Apple cares about keeping people locked into their ecosystem, they can’t afford to lose their low pride options. Which I guess is why they now sell the iPhone 6S new for $139 instead of the SE. Soon I’ll be seeing the 6S sweep over the campus.
Juicy Box
macrumors 604
This doesn't matter. There could be a crap load of people wanting a smaller an/or cheaper iPhone over a larger, more expensive one.
Just because there might be a lot, doesn't mean Apple would make it.
As I already said, I think Apple views a sale of a cheaper iPhone as the loss of a sale of a more expensive one with a higher profit margin.
I think this has more of an impact on why Apple may not have an SE2, or at least not any time soon. I think that most people that want an SE-like phone would settle for a more expensive iPhone than wait for an SE2.
FFR
Suspended
I have.
Your not making any sense.
No other company manufactures or sells iOS so apple cannot be considered an oligopoly.
And because of android and windows as alternatives to iOS and Mac OS, apple cannot be considered a monopoly either.
You don’t really have an argument.
FFR
Suspended
The homeless situation is a failure of California’s state government, not capitalism.
And has nothing to do with apple and it’s products.