iPhone X Won't Be Available to Walk-In Customers at Apple Stores in Belgium or France on Launch Day

[Vanilla Ice]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? The argument you're about to make. The one relying on a pedantic textbook definition of machine gun. Yeah that one. Please don't. You know exactly what the poster is referencing. We do have access to AR and AK styled weapons. It's our constitutional right to have weapons and there are plenty of places where open carry negates the need to contact the police. But you know that already.

Lunatics and their brothers with machine guns and a President that can start ww3. Yeah, the poster is obviously pointing out that in America it's much more unsafe and I'm sure it goes beyond his own situations while he was here. Yet in his country you cannot wait inline for an iPhone. So instead of looking at why in his country and France where real Terriorism lives, let's take a shot at good old US of A! His argument lacks a source and is not so compelling.

 

[Mansu944]

Lol what? Did I say that ever happened?

I was simply replying to the “glad we don’t have this problem in the US” comment. It sounded so smug, so I wanted to point out that we have plenty of violence of our own. As a matter of fact, much much more.

Nevermind....it's happening here too...

http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/several-people-shot-in-downtown-manhattan/

 

[69Mustang]

Lunatics and their brothers with machine guns and a President that can start ww3. Yeah, the poster is obviously pointing out that in America it's much more unsafe and I'm sure it goes beyond his own situations while he was here. Yet in his country you cannot wait inline for an iPhone. So instead of looking at why in his country and France where real Terriorism lives, let's take a shot at good old US of A! His argument lacks a source and is not so compelling.

Please don't mistake my comments as a defense of the comments @WarHeadz or @hagar . I have no opinion one way or the other regarding their comments. My comment is simply a criticism of the pedantic nature of your rebuttals in this thread. Now my criticism is based on my personal belief that you are more than capable of recognizing hyperbole for what it is... especially regarding WW3. If I am wrong, apologies. The funny thing is, we don't really have a foreign terrorism issue in the US. No matter what our government would like us to believe. We have our own set of unrelated issues. You are trying to pedantically argue counterpoints as if you're discussing the same subject. You're not.

 

[hagar]

Lunatics and their brothers with machine guns and a President that can start ww3. Yeah, the poster is obviously pointing out that in America it's much more unsafe and I'm sure it goes beyond his own situations while he was here. Yet in his country you cannot wait inline for an iPhone. So instead of looking at why in his country and France where real Terriorism lives, let's take a shot at good old US of A! His argument lacks a source and is not so compelling.

While I agree you’re not having foreign terrorism as a problem in your country, the fact remains that it’s far more likely to be killed by a gun or police agression in the US than in the EU. The statistics are staggering. Those are facts.

And by the number of domestic attacks and mass shootings in the US I’m not convinced that standing in line for a phone is safer in the US than the EU. Just watch the news out of NY tonight.

Also, our political system is quite stable at the moment (the situation in Spain excluded), something that cannot be said for the federal US government. So conflicts are more likely to arise.

As a side note: France was in a state of emergency for 2 years after the Paris attacks, until tonight. So Apple can go ahead and start selling iPhones there on friday. Leaving Belgium as the odd one out.

 

[extrachrispy]

Yeah, we’re much more likely to be shot dead by our fellow citizens excercising their “second amendment rights”. Or by a cop who “feared for his life”.

No, you aren't. The overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens shot dead each year are those who commit suicide. The next category is criminals who were themselves shot by other criminals. If you're not in either category, you're more likely to drown in a bathtub than you are to receive a fatal gunshot.
[doublepost=1509487649][/doublepost]

I live in Brussels, Belgium and I feel much more unsafe in the US where every lunatic and his brother are allowed to have a machine gun. Or where any minute the president can start WW3.

Both of those statements are false.

1. Even in states where it's allowed, it's quite difficult and expensive to obtain a machine gun. There's the paperwork and background check with the federal government, that can take anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half, there's the requirement for approval from the local sheriff or chief of police, either of whom can decline that approval for any reason or no reason, and then, finally, there's the problem of raising in excess of $10,000 to obtain such a firearm. "Every lunatic and his brother" do not possess those means, and a sheriff or chief of police are NOT going to sign off on the transfer form for someone known to be off the rails.
2. The President alone cannot push the button. There has to be a concurrence from elsewhere in the administration.

[doublepost=1509487808][/doublepost]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? The argument you're about to make. The one relying on a pedantic textbook definition of machine gun.

The one relying on a CORRECT definition of "machine gun."

Yeah that one. Please don't. You know exactly what the poster is referencing. We do have access to AR and AK styled weapons. It's our constitutional right to have weapons and there are plenty of places where open carry negates the need to contact the police. But you know that already.

I doubt the poster knows what they are referencing. Ever since 1990, there has been an intentional media campaign to conflate machine guns with single-shot self-loading rifles that bear cosmetic (but not functional) resemblance to machine guns.

I'm not about to let it slide.
[doublepost=1509488179][/doublepost]

While I agree you’re not having foreign terrorism as a problem in your country, the fact remains that it’s far more likely to be killed by a gun or police agression in the US than in the EU. The statistics are staggering. Those are facts.

No, actually, they're not.

And by the number of domestic attacks and mass shootings in the US I’m not convinced that standing in line for a phone is safer in the US than the EU.

Mass shootings in the U.S. are statistically rare--rare enough that your risk of dying in one is on par with your risk of dying from a lightning strike. The Law of Large Numbers means that even statistically rare events appear to happen often.

Just watch the news out of NY tonight.

The attack in New York mimicked tactics seen recently in London and in Nice. Do you have a point?

Also, our political system is quite stable at the moment (the situation in Spain excluded), something that cannot be said for the federal US government. So conflicts are more likely to arise.

Got anything to back either of assertions about the U.S. up? In 226 years, we've had two assassinations and 42 peaceful transitions of power from one President to the next.

 

[69Mustang]

The one relying on a CORRECT definition of "machine gun."
I doubt the poster knows what they are referencing. Ever since 1990, there has been an intentional media campaign to conflate machine guns with single-shot self-loading rifles that bear cosmetic (but not functional) resemblance to machine guns.

No one cares. Seriously, no one cares and it matters little in the context of the conversation.

I'm not about to let it slide.

What are you going to do about it? Sternly word your post to note objection to someone mis-classifying a gun? No cares.

Not that it matters, but 4 presidents have been assassinated, not 2. I mean if you're going to get bent out of shape about the accuracy someone else's gun description one would think you'd care about the accuracy of your presidential information as well. Not even gonna mention the 6 other attempts... oops guess I just mentioned the 6 other attempts.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

There are several reasons, and here are few:
Belgium is smaller market, they focus mostly on France, Germany and UK in Europe.
However, France has and had problems with every iPhone launch since 2012. People getting stabbed, robbed, beaten after or during queues and buying new iPhones.
France also changed the law on standing in line outside in huge numbers, due to fears of terrorism.

That's a damn shame. I know here in NYC we had those types of incidents when a hot exclusive sneaker is released.

 

[sinsin07]

snip...Got anything to back either of assertions about the U.S. up? In 226 years, we've had two assassinations and 42 peaceful transitions of power from one President to the next.

Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy

 

[hagar]

No, actually, they’re not.

Firearms were used to kill 13,286 people in the U.S. in 2015, excluding suicide.[12]Approximately 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011, equivalent to a top 10 largest U.S. city in 2016, falling between the populations of San Antonio and Dallas, Texas.[12]

Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher.[13] Although it has half the population of the other 22 nations combined, the U.S. had 82 percent of all gun deaths, 90 percent of all women killed by guns, 91 percent of children under 14 and 92 percent of young people between ages 15 and 24 killed by guns.[13] In 2010, gun violence cost U.S. taxpayers approximately $516 million in direct hospital costs.

The attack in New York mimicked tactics seen recently in London and in Nice. Do you have a point?

Yes. That domestic attacks in the US are as dangerous as foreign terrorism in the EU.

 

[extrachrispy]

No one cares. Seriously, no one cares and it matters little in the context of the conversation.

Wrong. YOU don’t care. I don’t care that you don’t care.

What are you going to do about it?

I’m going to keep pointing out that gun control advocates don’t have the slightest idea what they’re talking about.

Not that it matters, but 4 presidents have been assassinated, not 2.

I stand corrected.

 

[hagar]

I’m going to keep pointing out that gun control advocates don’t have the slightest idea what they’re talking about.

Sure, defend a system resulting in 25 times higher gun related deaths compared to other developed countries.

Anyway, the topic here was that Apple will not sell iPhones on Friday in Belgium and France. We’ll deal with it.

 

[extrachrispy]

Firearms were used to kill 13,286 people in the U.S. in 2015, excluding suicide.[12]Approximately 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011, equivalent to a top 10 largest U.S. city in 2016, falling between the populations of San Antonio and Dallas, Texas.[12]

Ah, cherry picking, selecting the most violent decades in order to make an emotional appeal.

Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher.[13]

And more cherry-picking, excluding nations whose data show that the U.S. isn’t even in the top ten for homicide.

Although it has half the population of the other 22 nations combined, the U.S. had 82 percent of all gun deaths, 90 percent of all women killed by guns, 91 percent of children under 14 and 92 percent of young people between ages 15 and 24 killed by guns.[13] In 2010, gun violence cost U.S. taxpayers approximately $516 million in direct hospital costs.

And here we have outright mendacity, conjuring up a fictitious category of “gun deaths” and excluding deaths by other means, again to make an emotional appeal, via the idiocy that death by some other means is not just as dead.

The homicide rate in the U.S. stands at 4.4/100,000. A sizeable fraction of those are committed with guns. A sizeable fraction aren’t, and the U.S. isn’t even in the top 50 worldwide when it comes to homicide rates.
[doublepost=1509491743][/doublepost]

Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy

Sure, defend a system resulting in 25 times higher gun related deaths compared to other developed countries.

Sure, lie via cherry-picking, inventing an arbitrary category called “developed countries,” that can be bent any way you like to avoid looking at contrary data, and another mendacious category called “gun deaths,” as if death via knife or claw hammer is any less dead.

Anyway, the topic here was that Apple will not sell iPhones on Friday in Belgium and France. We’ll deal with it.

Other than to display both your dishonesty and your ignorance, then why did you bring the topic of guns up?

 

[noteple]

Wow....thank god we don’t have this problem in the US.

Yet

 

[hagar]

Got anything to back either of assertions about the U.S. up? In 226 years, we've had two assassinations and 42 peaceful transitions of power from one President to the next.

I wasn’t referring to the history of the US, I’m talking about the current political climate causing a polarised society.

 

[sinsin07]

snip..Sure, lie via cherry-picking, inventing an arbitrary category called “developed countries,” that can be bent any way you like to avoid looking at contrary data, and another mendacious category called “gun deaths,” as if death via knife or claw hammer is any less dead.

Not clear why you included the "Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy" comment in your "cherry picking" rebuttal.
You incorrectly stated the number of US Presidents assassinations.
The names were listed to correct your error.

 

[69650]

It’s bad enough that these fanatics are killing people by driving into crowds on the street, but I shudder to think how many more people would die if they also had a machine gun. What a crazy world we live in when you can’t safely line up for a new iPhone.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Yeah, we’re much more likely to be shot dead by our fellow citizens excercising their “second amendment rights”. Or by a cop who “feared for his life”.
[doublepost=1509477110][/doublepost]
This thread by it’s very nature belongs in PRSI, which is why that’s where it was placed to begin with.

How many iPhone buyers waiting in line on launch date have been shot by people exercising their Second Amendment rights?

 

[ksnell]

Yeah, we’re much more likely to be shot dead by our fellow citizens excercising their “second amendment rights”. Or by a cop who “feared for his life”.
[doublepost=1509477110][/doublepost]
This thread by it’s very nature belongs in PRSI, which is why that’s where it was placed to begin with.

Facts are important. Maybe worry about heart disease or mental health issues the way you worry about firearms and you'll actually save some lives rather than endangering them.
[doublepost=1509506100][/doublepost]

I live in Brussels, Belgium and I feel much more unsafe in the US where every lunatic and his brother are allowed to have a machine gun. Or where any minute the president can start WW3 .

By which I don’t want to minimise our own problems ;-)

But not selling a phone seems like a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

You clearly are uninformed about US law so let me try to help. "Lunatics" are barred from having firearms in the United States. You must pass a background check for criminal and mental history. Also "machine guns" as you call them, are even more regulated (by the NFA) than a typical semi-automatic rifle or handgun so even harder for "every lunatic and his brother" to get his hands on.

I know the media makes it hard by shouting out falsehoods so I hope this helps. Personally, I would feel more unsafe in Europe where the government does not trust its law abiding citizens enough with a tool (because that is all a firearm is) to protect themselves. With all due respect, your only option in Belgium is to run, pray, and wait for police, no?

As the saying goes, "When you outlaw guns, only Outlaws will have guns."

Take care.

 

[WarHeadz]

Facts are important. Maybe worry about heart disease or mental health issues the way you worry about firearms and you'll actually save some lives rather than endangering them.
[doublepost=1509506100][/doublepost]

You clearly are uninformed about US law so let me try to help. "Lunatics" are barred from having firearms in the United States. You must pass a background check for criminal and mental history. Also "machine guns" as you call them, are even more regulated (by the NFA) than a typical semi-automatic rifle or handgun so even harder for "every lunatic and his brother" to get his hands on.

I know the media makes it hard by shouting out falsehoods so I hope this helps. Personally, I would feel more unsafe in Europe where the government does not trust its law abiding citizens enough with a tool (because that is all a firearm is) to protect themselves. With all due respect, your only option in Belgium is to run, pray, and wait for police, no?

As the saying goes, "When you outlaw guns, only Outlaws will have guns."

Take care.

And yet Europe doesn’t have mass shootings on practically a weekly basis, while we do. Have you forgotten about Vegas already? Tell me, what would you and your gun have done to protect those people? Nothing. You would been powerless, just like you are now. You’re paranoid and your gun gives you a false sense of security. Enjoy it, because Americans are losing their lives on a daily basis so you can fool yourself into thinking you’re “protecting” yourself.

 

[Guda.FL]

I live in Brussels, Belgium and I feel much more unsafe in the US where every lunatic and his brother are allowed to have a machine gun. Or where any minute the president can start WW3 .

By which I don’t want to minimise our own problems ;-)

But not selling a phone seems like a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

Did your airliner land on a military base on your way to a destination? Safer in Brussels Where you have no go zones where the cops are too afraid to enter? Which is a fact. Now of 50+ family members, none of us own a gun.

Quite honestly, i felt less safer in Europe than in Asia.
[doublepost=1509507406][/doublepost]

And yet Europe doesn’t have mass shootings on practically a weekly basis, while we do. Have you forgotten about Vegas already? Tell me, what would you and your gun have done to protect those people? Nothing. You would been powerless, just like you are now. You’re paranoid and your gun gives you a false sense of security. Enjoy it, because Americans are losing their lives on a daily basis so you can fool yourself into thinking you’re “protecting” yourself.

Manchester?

 

[WarHeadz]

Manchester?

Isolated incidents of terror in other countries don't negate the overall frequency with which our citizens are slaughtered with legally obtained specially designed killing tools.
[doublepost=1509507668][/doublepost]

Safer in Brussels Where you have no go zones where the cops are too afraid to enter? Which is a fact.

Jesus. Do you believe everything you read on Breitbart?

 

[Guda.FL]

Isolated incidents of terror in other countries don't negate the overall frequency with which our citizens are slaughtered with legally obtained specially designed killing tools.
[doublepost=1509507668][/doublepost]
Jesus. Do you believe everything you read on Breitbart?

breitbart..heh. Was that a comeback? Read actual french and local news papers then come back at me. I can translate if you would like.

 

[imicca]

Switzerland is also a small place, but iPhones are very popular here. Judging from what I see in public transport, at least half of the country owns one...

Because country is rich

 

[CarlJ]

Firearms were used to kill 13,286 people in the U.S. in 2015, excluding suicide.[12]Approximately 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011, equivalent to a top 10 largest U.S. city in 2016, falling between the populations of San Antonio and Dallas, Texas.[12]

Ah, cherry picking, selecting the most violent decades in order to make an emotional appeal.

Really? That's your response? "Cherry picking the most violent decades?" Read the paragraph you replied to again (or maybe for the first time) - it cites a statistic that covers from 1968 to 2011 - basically the entire last 50 years, as well as mentioning two years in this decade. So you're saying, "oh, well, yeah, sure, the last fifty years have been violent in the USA, but what about all the rest of the time?" I think you picked the wrong page from the NRA talking points playbook ("if they mention dates claim they're just cherry picking the bad parts"), rather than actually reading what hagar said. And you went out of your way to claim that only two US presidents had been assassinated (nobody asked, you brought it up). You don't seem especially interested in discussing actual facts.

 

[ksnell]

And yet Europe doesn’t have mass shootings on practically a weekly basis, while we do. Have you forgotten about Vegas already? Tell me, what would you and your gun have done to protect those people? Nothing. You would been powerless, just like you are now. You’re paranoid and your gun gives you a false sense of security. Enjoy it, because Americans are losing their lives on a daily basis so you can fool yourself into thinking you’re “protecting” yourself.

We can all agree what happened in Las Vegas was horrible and the fact that we know literally nothing about why this evil person did what they did is appalling. However, I would recommend trying to separate emotion from this issue if possible.

I 100% agree that a firearm would do absolutely no good in that situation. This includes for officers on the ground, too, which is why it is such a difficult threat to stop. The person was pure evil, and in my opinion we need to combat it more from a mental health side. However, say for instance that you ban guns in America. What is to stop an evil person from getting them off the black market and doing the same thing (like was done in Paris, France in 2016 where they killed 130 people and injured another 413)? Then imagine there is no black market so no guns, which we all know is never going to happen. What is to stop an evil person from filling a truck full of ammonium nitrate to make a bomb (like was done in the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995 where 168 people were killed and injured more than 680 others). Okay then you ban ammonium nitrate. What is to stop an evil person from driving a truck through a crowd of people (like was done yesterday in New York killing 8, and also in Nice, France in 2016 killing 86 and injuring another 458). My point here is evil will find a way no matter what you ban. As unfortunate as it is, that this is the case, and I would rather focus on fighting evil rather than fighting tools that can be used in productive or unproductive ways.

Same goes for other objects like cars, trucks, airplanes, pressure cookers, ammonium nitrate, etc.

I know a firearm will not necessarily save my life in a dangerous situation, but I would rather have it available (with the training necessary that goes with it) much like I would rather have a fire extinguisher in case of a fire. Yes, if the whole house catches because of an arsonist or whatever, my fire extinguisher is useless, but I still want my fire extinguisher just in case and I am certainly not going to ban it. So go ahead and call me paranoid, but the truth is good lives are saved everyday because someone had a gun somewhere to protect themselves, and as the FBI shows, these "dangerous assault rifles" are actually involved in less murders per year than hands, feet, or clubs.

Hope this helps you better understand an alternate point of view in our country, and I do sincerely hope you and your family are safe in Vegas.