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The basic 649$ is already expensive. It should start from $350 without subsidy

Really?!? Let's try that argument with all other premium goods shall we.....

Hey Ferrari, your cars are too expensive. They should start at $25,000 without manufacture Incentives.

No one is forced to buy an iPhone. You don't NEED an iPhone. It's a premium brand and they can sell it for whatever price they deem it is worth. Don't like the price? Don't buy it.
 
Sure those things do cost $, but just not to the extent you are expressing. iPhone 7 and iOS 10 would have to be completely different beasts for R&D to be justified like that. Time will tell if that R&D was well worth it. In the 1990s it was shown to be not.

Do you have any experience in bringing a product to market? If not, how can you have any idea what those costs? Not every R&D project becomes a marketable product. Just look at all the patents Apple has submitted for ideas we have yet to see. And those are just the ones they felt were worthy of patenting. I can only imagine what they work on or try out that doesn't make it out of the building. All that costs money. Heck, I remember reading that Microsoft has over 100 different designs for what the Xbox One was going to look like. All of those took time, money and materials to create, its not cheap.

Speaking of patents, there is another cost I forgot.
 
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In comparison to computer devices in general. Computers are a basic human right. There is no reason why iPhone, with its insanely cheap manufactured cost price, is incredibly expensive and overpriced making it unattainable for many individuals.

A "basic human right"? Maybe for those like you, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Try telling those people in India where 1 billion people have no access to fresh water or sanitary living conditions or a roof thats not made out of cardboard. If I didn't think you were bereft of grey matter I'd actually laugh at your ludicrous and offensive comment.

Human rights as defined by the UN --
http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

It is always important to have a discussion with objective facts instead of subjective opinions. Otherwise we tend to devolve into name calling as you two have. Let get back to the issue.
 
So you want them to warranty their phone longer than any other manufacturer that charges similar prices? How does that make sense.
Apple's items should be fit for purpose. If they break, not due to customer negligence, and it's within 2 years, at the very least customers should be able to claim the phone under warranty. It should apply universally.
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Human rights as defined by the UN --
http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

It is always important to have a discussion with objective facts instead of subjective opinions. Otherwise we tend to devolve into name calling as you two have. Let get back to the issue.
Article 26. Everyone has the right to education. ...
 
.....
There is no reason why iPhone, with its insanely cheap manufactured cost price, is incredibly expensive and overpriced making it unattainable for many individuals.
I wish you well with the company, whether as investor or owner, that'll take advantage of the opportunity you perceive in the marketplace.
 
Do you have any experience in bringing a product to market? If not, how can you have any idea what those costs? Not every R&D project becomes a marketable product. Just look at all the patents Apple has submitted for ideas we have yet to see. And those are just the ones they felt were worthy of patenting. I can only imagine what they work on or try out that doesn't make it out of the building. All that costs money. Heck, I remember reading that Microsoft has over 100 different designs for what the Xbox One was going to look like. All of those took time, money and materials to create, its not cheap.

Speaking of patents, there is another cost I forgot.
Yes. Yes.
 
The cost of designing and building the phone is the same regardless of where it is sold. Everything is designed in Cupertino and built in China. The difference is therefore fourfold from what I can tell.

Transportation cost to Point of Sales
Import/export tariffs
Currency exchange and volatility
Marketing in Point of Sales Market

My sense (no source) is that Apple has shifted prices primarily based on the middle two areas (tariffs and currency volatility). We know from their SEC documents that they make about 40% profit (gross not net). We also know that Tim is trying to get India to allow used iphones into the market. Clearly he would like some of the tariffs to come down. I don't know what else he can do other than accept a lower profit margin (something apple has not been open to previously).
 
I’m referring to Apple's lowest pricing for each comparison at http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s. There isn't enough space to list all 50 states here. The comparisons of other countries I gave included tax and without tax in those countries.

That's not correct, actually US state taxes http://www.sale-tax.com :

0 - 0.9% - 5 states
2 - 2.9% - 1 state
4 - 4.9% - 11 states
5 - 5.9% - 8 states
6 - 6.9% - 19 states
7 - 7.9% - 6 states

The font doesn't appear huge this end. I prefer Arial instead of Veranda.
You're right. I was wrong. It wasn't 22 states, it was 25 states that you could end up paying 8% or higher. You're intentionally ignoring the full state and local tax rate in the link you provided. That full rate is what most people pay. We're getting way too "rabbit hole" with this. My point: If you're going to argue a position, base it on real facts, not just parts of facts that bolster your position. No one's arguing the high world price of iPhones. They are arguing your evidence and it's presentation.
 
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We also know that Tim is trying to get India to allow used iphones into the market


I'll bet Apple's warehouse is pretty full with all those traded in iPhones that they thought they could push off on India ... fail ... and were denied by the Indian government for the SECOND time.

Here's what Apple really wanted to do in India, from the Verge

"Apple won't be allowed to import or sell refurbished iPhones in India, a telecommunication ministry official told Bloomberg. The company had requested approval to sell the older phones at a cheaper price earlier this year. India's environment ministry had denied Apple's same request in 2015 over fears that the used phones, which are close to end-of-life, would contribute to India's e-waste problems, according to the Times of India."
 
Apple's items should be fit for purpose. If they break, not due to customer negligence, and it's within 2 years, at the very least customers should be able to claim the phone under warranty. It should apply universally.

Why stop at 2.. why not make it 3, or 4, or 5. I have an iPhone 5s for work that I use every day. Its almost 3 years old. Should Apple still cover it? Where do you draw the line? I've sold everyone one of my iPhone's after 2 years in order to get a new one. Who knows how long that person will use it for. Should it still be covered then?
 
You're right. I was wrong. It wasn't 22 states, it was 25 states that you could end up paying 8% or higher. You're intentionally ignoring the full state and local tax rate in the link you provided. That full rate is what most people pay. We're getting way too "rabbit hole" with this. My point: If you're going to argue a position, base it on real facts, not just parts of facts that bolster your position. No one's arguing the high world price of iPhones. They are arguing their evidence.
You are "intentionally ignoring" that fact some customers ship to a 0% tax state address and have it on-shipped to their home state address. Exactly, too far off course now, that's why I referred to the lowest price in each of those countries including USA. Fact is buying iPhone in many countries outside of USA is more expensive. The below table is for iPhone 6, but you get the point it's not an imaginary thing.

gHaeKLV.png

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Why stop at 2.. why not make it 3, or 4, or 5. I have an iPhone 5s for work that I use every day. Its almost 3 years old. Should Apple still cover it? Where do you draw the line? I've sold everyone one of my iPhone's after 2 years in order to get a new one. Who knows how long that person will use it for. Should it still be covered then?
Well if you want to advocate secondhand phones should have implied warranties, go right ahead. I'm being more sensible about this, "fit for purpose" i.e. the phone should be working for its purpose of a two year contract at a minimum. The phone should be durable over its life. If something on it fails, it's Apple's duty to correct it in that time, with the only exception of user damage.
 
The below table is for iPhone 6, but you get the point it's not an imaginary thing.


You're table has so little value because consumers purchase in their OWN currency not US adjusted currencies - and the numbers for Canada are vastly different from your posteds. Just as the 9.7 iPP price has jumped way over USD pricing so will the iPhone 7 pricing.
 
You are "intentionally ignoring" that fact some customers ship to a 0% tax state address and have it on-shipped to their home state address. Exactly, too far off course now, that's why I referred to the lowest price in each of those countries including USA. Fact is buying iPhone in many countries outside of USA is more expensive. The below table is for iPhone 6, but you get the point it's not an imaginary thing.

gHaeKLV.png

[doublepost=1464106541][/doublepost]
Well if you want to advocate secondhand phones should have implied warranties, go right ahead. I'm being more sensible about this, "fit for purpose" i.e. the phone should be working for its purpose of a two year contract at a minimum. The phone should be durable over its life. If something on it fails, it's Apple's duty to correct it in that time, with the only exception of user damage.


You keep just throwing out whatever statistics you want to make the cost between what the US pays and other countries even more so. Some people use craigslist in America and can get the phone for $550.00. You want to use that as well?
 
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You keep just throwing out whatever statistics you want to make the cost between what the US pays and other countries even more so. Some people use craigslist in America and can get the phone for $550.00. You want to use that as well?
HA! This isn't craigslist stats, these are well research and documented facts. iPhone costs much less in the USA. See above. Maybe visit Apple's website and do your own research and discover the fact all over again.
 
HA! This isn't craigslist stats, these are well research and documented facts. iPhone costs much less in the USA. See above. Maybe visit Apple's website and do your own research and discover the fact all over again.
[doublepost=1464107305][/doublepost]
HA! This isn't craigslist stats, these are well research and documented facts. iPhone costs much less in the USA. See above. Maybe visit Apple's website and do your own research and discover the fact all over again.

But it's not the whole fact if you include taxes and fees in one instance, and not in another.

It's not a true factual comparison. Hell you even admit multiple times that you use the "Apples lowest pricing comparison" and then scream about facts.
 
You're table has so little value because consumers purchase in their OWN currency not US adjusted currencies - and the numbers for Canada are vastly different from your posteds. Just as the 9.7 iPP price has jumped way over USD pricing so will the iPhone 7 pricing.
I’m referring to Apple's lowest pricing advertised on its website for comparison at http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s
A quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ¥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

Canada - $899 = $684.86 USD - that's $35.86 USD extra the customer pays in CA
 
I’m referring to Apple's lowest pricing for each comparison at http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s. There isn't enough space to list all 50 states here. The comparisons of other countries I gave included tax and without tax in those countries.

That's not correct, actually US state taxes http://www.sale-tax.com :

0 - 0.9% - 5 states
2 - 2.9% - 1 state
4 - 4.9% - 11 states
5 - 5.9% - 8 states
6 - 6.9% - 19 states
7 - 7.9% - 6 states

The font doesn't appear huge this end. I prefer Arial instead of Veranda.

[doublepost=1464102127][/doublepost]
The iPhone costs insanely little to make, Apple is artificially inflating retail prices.
8 Billion on R&D and what did they get for it? An ugly 6/6s with antenna bands and a protruding camera with buggy software that bricks devices.
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Thanks for your experience. An iPhone should work and be covered by the manufacturer for at the very least the duration of the phone contract, for example 2 years and more. Apple should be supporting their products for much longer that just 1 year especially at the retail pricing that they command.

I notice purchasing Apple hardware in Washington state is unusually expensive. My iPhone 6s 64 GB had a Tax rate of 9.5% (USD 72), bringing the total cost to $820.

Its still cheaper than if I bought it locally.

The MacBook Pro was $133 extra after taxes, totalling USD $1543.

I could have probably gotten a significant discount on the iPhone through a program I am part of, but the lousy store employee ignored it.
 
I’m referring to Apple's lowest pricing advertised on its website for comparison at http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s You can't get anymore relevant than that.
A quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ¥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

Canada - $899 = $684.86 USD - that's $35.86 USD extra the customer pays in CA

The other issue with this "comparison" is that you are converting everything to USD. You taking an item that has a static price, and then converting it to another denomination using something that has a fluctuating value. USD conversion rates change constantly.
 
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The other issue with this "comparison" is that you are converting everything to USD. You taking an item that has a static price, and then converting it to another denomination using something that has a fluctuating value. USD conversion rates change constantly.
Yes, that's right, it's based on today. Let's try again in a month. Then six months. Apple also adjusts their pricing on currency too. iPhone 6 and now iPhone 6s pricing suggests consistently pricing outside of the US is more expensive, that fact doesn't change.
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Eureka! :) iPhones are expensive everywhere, Mr Cook.
Great avatar by the way!
 
Well if you want to advocate secondhand phones should have implied warranties, go right ahead. I'm being more sensible about this, "fit for purpose" i.e. the phone should be working for its purpose of a two year contract at a minimum. The phone should be durable over its life. If something on it fails, it's Apple's duty to correct it in that time, with the only exception of user damage.

How am I advocating secondhand warranties when I don't even agree with you on a 2 year warranty... wow

You're not being sensible at all, you're being unrealistic and idealistic. A 1 year warranty is the industry standard and changing that has no benefit to the company. I 'd guarantee that almost no one would by an iPhone over an Android phone based solely on the warranty, its simply not a deal-breaking feature. So Apple would be at risk of covering more repairs while barely increasing their customer customer base, if at all. Plus, even if they did make the change, chances are Samsung, LG, etc. would do the same thing for fear of loosing customers. So at the end of the day Apple is taking on more risk for no reward. Sorry, but no intelligent CEO would do that.
 
They're actually too expensive worldwide.

Edit:
A quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ¥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP
You've missed something in your calculation. You have to consider the income (GDP per capita) while doing such a comparison. Let's assume an Australian guy is much more wealthier than an American. Then it would justify to pay a higher price, because the standard is high. Again, that's an assumption. But even though, we know that the income in India is much lower than in America and the result is that the indian costumer is even worse off than in your calculation. It's called in economics purchasing power parity (PPP).
 
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You've missed something in your calculation. You have to consider the income (GDP per capita) while doing such a comparison. Let's assume an Australian guy is much more wealthier than an American. Then it would justify to pay a higher price, because the standard is high. Again, that's an assumption. But even though, we know that the income in India is much lower than in America and the result is that the indian costumer is even worse off than in your calculation. It's called in economics purchasing power parity (PPP).
Apple has its pricing completely wrong.
 
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