iPhones Too Expensive in India, Says Apple CEO Tim Cook

[Nunyabinez]

Overpriced, rather than too expensive. That's a good one. I'll run that phrase by one of my customers just to see the expression on their faces.

Smart people carefully choose their words because though some words have similar meanings, they are not identical.

Overpriced means that the price is too high for the value you get from the product.

Too expensive means that the product is outside of the buying power of someone.

A 10,000 square foot mansion may be too expensive for me, but it might be underpriced.

Tim was being careful to say that the phones are difficult for people there to afford, but that didn't mean the price was not representative of what the phone is worth.

Subtle, I know, but he was making a specific point, which apparently some people didn't understand.
[doublepost=1464115704][/doublepost]

Apple has its pricing completely wrong.

Well it's a good thing that no one is forced to buy their products. If their pricing is all wrong people will stop buying, if people keep buying, then by definition their price is correct.

 

[smacrumon]

How am I advocating secondhand warranties when I don't even agree with you on a 2 year warranty... wow

You're not being sensible at all, you're being unrealistic and idealistic. A 1 year warranty is the industry standard and changing that has no benefit to the company. I 'd guarantee that almost no one would by an iPhone over an Android phone based solely on the warranty, its simply not a deal-breaking feature. So Apple would be at risk of covering more repairs while barely increasing their customer customer base, if at all. Plus, even if they did make the change, chances are Samsung, LG, etc. would do the same thing for fear of loosing customers. So at the end of the day Apple is taking on more risk for no reward. Sorry, but no intelligent CEO would do that.

I am being entirely sensible, for some reason you just can't seem to fathom customers getting a product that works for a good deal of time. It's not the customer's fault if their product breaks early in its life after 12 months of use. Apple must be responsible for faulty products if the user has followed the directions properly and taken care of their unit.

Apple might reduce the risk of the purchasing decision for the customer by offering its own extended guarantees. Extended guarantees are a deal closer for some customers.

In many cases, buying AppleCare is entirely pointless and a waste of money because a number of jurisdictions around the world have good consumer rights when it comes to automatic customer guarantees on the products which they purchase.

In a number of countries around the world, for example in the UK, customers have automatic warrantee periods that are in addition to Apple's 1 year, in which customers can make a claim. In some countries, Apple has been forced to acknowledge these additional rights customers have alongside their standard Apple 1 year guarantee, for instance, in the UK describes customers have at least 5 years automatic guarantees:

"Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods."
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/
[doublepost=1464116940][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1464115704][/doublepost]

Well it's a good thing that no one is forced to buy their products. If their pricing is all wrong people will stop buying, if people keep buying, then by definition their price is correct.

Believe me, I know people who have stopped buying.

 

[toph2toast]

I am being entirely sensible, for some reason you just can't seem to fathom customers getting a product that works for a good deal of time. It's not the customer's fault if their product breaks early in its life after 12 months of use. Apple must be responsible for faulty products if the user has followed the directions properly and taken care of their unit.

Apple might reduce the risk of the purchasing decision for the customer by offering its own extended guarantees. Extended guarantees are a deal closer for some customers.

In many cases, buying AppleCare is entirely pointless and a waste of money because a number of jurisdictions around the world have good consumer rights when it comes to automatic customer guarantees on the products which they purchase.

In a number of countries around the world, for example in the UK, customers have automatic warrantee periods that are in addition to Apple's 1 year, in which customers can make a claim. In some countries, Apple has been forced to acknowledge these additional rights customers have alongside their standard Apple 1 year guarantee, for instance, in the UK describes customers have at least 5 years automatic guarantees:

"Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods."
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

I do fathom getting a product that works for a good deal of time... that's why I buy Apple products. Don't believe me, just look at the resale value of iPhones compared to flagship Android phones. There is a reason you can ask for a higher resale price, because iPhones last.

And how would Apple "reduce the risk of the purchasing decision for the customer by offering its own extended guarantees"? If they don't take the risk with Apple, then they're going to take the risk with another manufacturer with the same exact warranty.

As I said, your being idealistic. It would be great, yes. Is it going to happen, doubtful. So why make such a fuss about it. Of all the things Apple can improve upon, the fact you care so much about a warranty is odd.

By the way, you never answered my question on the other topic . What is your experience of bringing products to market since you seemed to be so confident that all of the things that go into supporting a product like the iPhone and a company like Apple still don't justify the price.

 

[Nunyabinez]

Believe me, I know people who have stopped buying.

Ah, anecdotal evidence. And I know people who have started buying. Did I win?
[doublepost=1464119542][/doublepost]

"Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods."

And this is precisely why Apple has to charge more in the UK than it does in the US, because the cost of phones sold in the UK must factor in the extra repairs.

So, you can't brag about your great extra warrantees and then complain that Apple products cost more, because that is the reason that they cost more. Pick up one end of a stick and you get the other along with it.

 

[smacrumon]

Ah, anecdotal evidence. And I know people who have started buying. Did I win?
[doublepost=1464119542][/doublepost]

And this is precisely why Apple has to charge more in the UK than it does in the US, because the cost of phones sold in the UK must factor in the extra repairs.

So, you can't brag about your great extra warrantees and then complain that Apple products cost more, because that is the reason that they cost more. Pick up one end of a stick and you get the other along with it.

This isn't the reason Apple charges more in the UK. This notice was posted in 2012. Apples pricing has however been excessive in the UK prior to this and EU. Just because you say it's so doesn't make it true.
Yes, anecdotal.

 

[dampfnudel]

Thanks for your experience. An iPhone should work and be covered by the manufacturer for at the very least the duration of the phone contract, for example 2 years and more. Apple should be supporting their products for much longer that just 1 year especially at the retail pricing that they command.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[SBlue1]

They're actually too expensive worldwide.

Edit:
A quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ￥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

You do know that there is more to take into consideration when comparing prices? How about the higher wages in those countries that have higher prices? The cost for extra taxes besides VAT? The extra charges and royalties? The cost for a two year guarantee?

 

[Admiral]

Not true! Even when adjusting for taxes and currency, countries outside the USA are being charged much more for iPhone. It seems Apple is unnecessarily inflating pricing in other countries.

I believe Apple is necessarily inflating pricing in other countries, for reasons driven by those countries' regulatory issues. For example, in China and Korea there are consumer rights, such as a right of return for non-defective products, and a requirement that products brought in for warranty service must be exchanged for new product (not refurbished product), or that the one-year warranty gets reset anew in case there is service in the warranty period. That's right: In China and Korea, if the scratched-up iPhone in your pocket has a battery failure in the 11th month, you get a brand-new iPhone and a new one-year warranty. Apple doesn't get to give you the perfectly-good iPhone that some turkey returned after two days' use because his wife got mad about spending so much without her permission.

Well, kids, consumer "rights" aren't free. Businesses recover those costs in the price of the product.

 

[smacrumon]

You do know that there is more to take into consideration when comparing prices? How about the higher wages in those countries that have higher prices? The cost for extra taxes besides VAT? The extra charges and royalties? The cost for a two year guarantee?

Higher wages in Brazil? Extra significant taxes in the UK? There are no two year guarantees in those countries listed either, Apple offers just one year. It would do your argument some credibility if you did your research and responded with fact.
[doublepost=1464155198][/doublepost]

I believe Apple is necessarily inflating pricing in other countries, for reasons driven by those countries' regulatory issues. For example, in China and Korea there are consumer rights, such as a right of return for non-defective products, and a requirement that products brought in for warranty service must be exchanged for new product (not refurbished product), or that the one-year warranty gets reset anew in case there is service in the warranty period. That's right: In China and Korea, if the scratched-up iPhone in your pocket has a battery failure in the 11th month, you get a brand-new iPhone and a new one-year warranty. Apple doesn't get to give you the perfectly-good iPhone that some turkey returned after two days' use because his wife got mad about spending so much without her permission.

Well, kids, consumer "rights" aren't free. Businesses recover those costs in the price of the product.

Well a battery failure in the 11th month, also known as a defective product, should be replaced irrelevant if the unit is scratched during its use. Batteries should last more than five years. That's Apple's problem for not ensuring their product is fit for its purpose and not durable. Apple could avoid those claims by manufacturing items that work properly from the start and for a reasonable lifetime. Regulatory issues have nothing to do with Apple inflating prices outside of the US. Regulations ensure companies like Apple keep their end of the deal by providing functioning products to customers and that customers aren't stuck with Apple lemons.

 

[jonnysods]

I'm in Canada, I can drive an hour to the border and get a computer or device cheaper there than I can here, even with the terrible exchange rate.

Is it a premium Apple charge to make a little on the side?

 

[toph2toast]

Still waiting... what products have you been involved with taking to market? You think that the price of an iPhone is not justified, given all that goes into the infrastructure of a company like Apple, so explain what experience you have to make that claim.

 

[smacrumon]

Still waiting... what products have you been involved with taking to market? You think that the price of an iPhone is not justified, given all that goes into the infrastructure of a company like Apple, so explain what experience you have to make that claim.

"given all that goes into the infrastructure of a company like Apple" -- Nonsense.
I'm not going to be interrogated by an individual behind a keyboard. My businesses are just that, my business, I'm not going to discuss them in a public forum for your evaluation.
The price of iPhone is not justified. Customers are being ripped off worldwide. If Apple doesn't produce something unique, better and at a fair price, then its business will likely end up how it was going in the 1990s. Apple's trajectory is completely off in 2016.

 

[Wondercow]

I'm in Canada, I can drive an hour to the border and get a computer or device cheaper there than I can here, even with the terrible exchange rate.

Device, yes--one can save a maximum of about $50 Canadian (not including gas, of course); computers--no, they're generally much cheaper in Canada (though the iMacs aren't a huge savings):

Product     $US     $CDN     $US/$CDN Exchange
MacBook     1,299   1,549    1,699
            1,599   1,899    2,092
MacBook Pro 1,299   1,549    1,699
            1,499   1,799    1,960
            1,799   2,199    2,354
MacBook Air   899   1,099    1,175
            1,099   1,349    1,436
iMac        1,099   1,399    1,436
            1,299   1,649    1,699
            1,499   1,899    1,960
            1,799   2,299    2,354
            1,999   2,599    2,613
            2,299   2,999    3,006
Mac Pro     2,999   3,499    3,922
            3,999   4,699    5,231

 

[jonnysods]

Device, yes--one can save a maximum of about $50 Canadian (not including gas, of course); computers--no, they're generally much cheaper in Canada (though the iMacs aren't a huge savings):

Product     $US     $CDN     $US/$CDN Exchange
MacBook     1,299   1,549    1,699
            1,599   1,899    2,092
MacBook Pro 1,299   1,549    1,699
            1,499   1,799    1,960
            1,799   2,199    2,354
MacBook Air   899   1,099    1,175
            1,099   1,349    1,436
iMac        1,099   1,399    1,436
            1,299   1,649    1,699
            1,499   1,899    1,960
            1,799   2,299    2,354
            1,999   2,599    2,613
            2,299   2,999    3,006
Mac Pro     2,999   3,499    3,922
            3,999   4,699    5,231

That's a handy guide, where did you get that?

 

[Wondercow]

That's a handy guide, where did you get that?

I typed it out from Apple's stores and used Siri for the exchange prices

 

[jonnysods]

I typed it out from Apple's stores and used Siri for the exchange prices

Wow, nicely done!

Also I'm in Ontario with 13% HST, Michigan has 7% which saves some clams.

 

[toph2toast]

I'm not going to be interrogated by an individual behind a keyboard. My businesses are just that, my business, I'm not going to discuss them in a public forum for your evaluation.
The price of iPhone is not justified. Customers are being ripped off worldwide. If Apple doesn't produce something unique, better and at a fair price, then its business will likely end up how it was going in the 1990s. Apple's trajectory is completely off in 2016.

If your not going to back up your claims, then don't make them. Anyone behind a keyboard can say they are experts in this, that and the other thing. Based on your comments I truly don't feel you have a grasp on the reality of making a product and what all goes into it, so I'm going to call you out on it. Why, because I do R&D day in and day out. All those costs I mentioned, I deal with all the time.

If you don't think the price of an iPhone is justified, then don't buy one, plain and simple. But 225 million people bought iPhones in 2015, so tell me what reason Apple has to lower the price? If there was such a protest, you'd think people would stop buying them, yet their sales and market share have grown every year that the iPhone has been available.

10 years of incredible product growth... boy they suck

 

[smacrumon]

If your not going to back up your claims, then don't make them. Anyone behind a keyboard can say they are experts in this, that and the other thing. Based on your comments I truly don't feel you have a grasp on the reality of making a product and what all goes into it, so I'm going to call you out on it. Why, because I do R&D day in and day out. All those costs I mentioned, I deal with all the time.

If you don't think the price of an iPhone is justified, then don't buy one, plain and simple. But 225 million people bought iPhones in 2015, so tell me what reason Apple has to lower the price? If there was such a protest, you'd think people would stop buying them, yet their sales and market share have grown every year that the iPhone has been available.

10 years of incredible product growth... boy they suck

Well done. As I said, I'm not going to be interrogated by an individual behind a keyboard. My businesses are just that, my business, I'm not going to discuss them in a public forum for your unsolicited and aggressive evaluation.
Apple products are overpriced as you will have noted from the earlier comparison.
You can read the stats any which way you want, but Apple's smartphone market share dropped to 15.3 percent in the March quarter https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/27/iphone-15-percent-market-share

 

[toph2toast]

As I said, I'm not going to be interrogated by an individual behind a keyboard. My businesses are just that, my business, I'm not going to discuss them in a public forum for your unsolicited and aggressive evaluation.

What you really mean is, "I don't do that stuff, and this is my only response now that someone called me out on it".

Apple products are overpriced as you will have noted from the earlier comparison.
You can read the stats any which way you want, but Apple's smartphone market share dropped to 15.3 percent in the March quarter https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/27/iphone-15-percent-market-share

They are over priced based on YOUR comparison, and as you said "you can read stats any which way you want".

And oh boy, market share slipped once in 120 quarters... they must be doomed and it's all due to the price and warranty (s/)!

 

[smacrumon]

What you really mean is, "I don't do that stuff, and this is my only response now that someone called me out on it".



They are over priced based on YOUR comparison, and as you said "you can read stats any which way you want".

And oh boy, market share slipped once in 120 quarters... they must be doomed and it's all due to the price and warranty (s/)!

I did't say Apple was doomed. Take a look at the way in which you interpret posts. They are overpriced, Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market.
I'm not going to be intimidated by your taunts. I have two businesses, both with an R&D department. I participate in both.

 

[toph2toast]

I did't say Apple was doomed. Take a look at the way in which you interpret posts. They are overpriced, Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market.
I'm not going to be intimidated by your taunts. I have two businesses, both with an R&D department. I participate in both.

Wow, you are quite the literal person, aren't you? I guess you missed the "s/" at the end?

These prices are the retail prices of "premium" smart phones in USD

Galaxy S7 = $694.99
LG G5 = $688.99
iPhone 6s = $699.99

An $11 dollar difference between these phones... so much for "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market".

Nice try.

 

[smacrumon]

Wow, you are quite the literal person, aren't you? I guess you missed the "s/" at the end?

These prices are the retail prices of "premium" smart phones in USD

Galaxy S7 = $694.99
LG G5 = $688.99
iPhone 6s = $699.99

An $11 dollar difference between these phones... so much for "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market".

Nice try.

Nice try, that's not what the topic was about. iPhone pricing around the world is inflated. There's nothing premium about these smart phones today, especially when the same designs get rehashed! They are the toys of the telephone industry.
Reminder, since you appear to missed the original topic, a quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ￥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

 

[aristobrat]

Nice try, that's not what the topic was about. iPhone pricing around the world is inflated. There's nothing premium about these smart phones today, especially when the same designs get rehashed! They are the toys of the telephone industry.
Reminder, since you appear to missed the original topic, a quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ￥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

So just to be clear, you keep rehashing this crap simply because the US has different tax structures for each state (and so, Apple doesn't include the state/local taxes in their webpage), whereas the countries above have a single tax, which Apple does include in the price on their webpage.

I commend you for your tenacity in this thread. It seems to be you're the only one trying to make this point using goofy numbers.

 

[toph2toast]

Nice try, that's not what the topic was about. iPhone pricing around the world is inflated. There's nothing premium about these smart phones today, especially when the same designs get rehashed! They are the toys of the telephone industry.
Reminder, since you appear to missed the original topic, a quick sample of pricing:

That was the topic you were discussing with others, not with me. So nice try there. You did a nice job of moving the conversation away from you lack of product development knowledge to the oversea's prices of the phone. Something that I haven't commented on this thread. But if you really want to go there, we can.

Samsung Galaxy S7 prices around the world (based on a quick search):

Brazil: BRL 2,928
Great Britain: £569.00
Australia: $1149
Japan: ￥77,020

Other than Brazil, the prices seem comparable....

 

[toph2toast]

[doublepost=1464208888][/doublepost]
No, you are off topic. The forum topic is about "iPhones Too Expensive in India". You're creating a diversion by introducing irrelevant information about Samsung Galaxy.

Its completely relevant. Apple competes in the market of high end phones, which is what the Galaxy S7 is and priced at. So if you want to claim that "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market." yet other high end phones in that market are similarly priced, then its clear things don't add up for your claim. Sorry.
[doublepost=1464209870][/doublepost]More simply put

You claim "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market."

A quick search shows competing phones in the same market are similarly priced

Thus, Apple is not, in fact, pricing itself out of the market.

The end.