iPhones Too Expensive in India, Says Apple CEO Tim Cook

[smacrumon]

Its completely relevant. Apple competes in the market of high end phones, which is what the Galaxy S7 is and priced at. So if you want to claim that "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market." yet other high end phones in that market are similarly priced, then its clear things don't add up for your claim. Sorry.

To avoid aggravating other forum commenters further with continuous notifications, this is probably my last comment on this, but I think you've missed the point of the original article. The focus is on iPhone and pricing of iPhone around the world, specifically in India. Quote from article: "Apple CEO Tim Cook admitted that iPhones are too expensive in India" ... "According to a recent report from Deutsche Bank, India is among the most expensive places in the world to buy an iPhone. Prices there average 31 percent higher than the U.S., with only iPhones in Sweden, Indonesia, and Brazil proving more costly."
iPhone is more costly outside of the US in many regions including the ones I listed on the first page of the forum based on Apple's own website.
Have a good day.

 

[aristobrat]

They aren't goofy numbers no matter how tenacious you are in trying to misrepresent them. They are the lowest pricing listed on Apple's own website in each of the relevant regions and current today.

Nobody here is denying that they're the lowest prices listed on Apple's own website. And nobody here is denying that the iPhone isn't more expensive in other countries. There are, however, some discrepancies over the specific numbers that you chose to make your point with.

I'm in the US and can't buy an iPhone for the price Apple has listed on their own website.

I'd guess that 90% of the US folks in this thread can't buy an iPhone for the price Apple has listed own their own website. The price on their website isn't representative of the price that the majority of folks in the US pay for their iPhones.

So you taking that price that everyone here in the US knows isn't the price that most people pay (and understand why Apple lists the MSRP without tax) and trying to twist that price around to be the official US price point simply because "BEHOLD, THAT PRICE CAME FROM APPLES OWN WEBSITE, USE NO ADDITIONAL LOGIC WHEN COMPARING IT TO PRICES IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THE TAXES ARE INCLUDED" makes no sense, other than you need to use a misrepresentatively low number like that to more dramatically make your point. That's kinda BS, IMO.

Good day to you, sir.

 

[smacrumon]

Its completely relevant. Apple competes in the market of high end phones, which is what the Galaxy S7 is and priced at. So if you want to claim that "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market." yet other high end phones in that market are similarly priced, then its clear things don't add up for your claim. Sorry.
[doublepost=1464209870][/doublepost]More simply put

You claim "Apple is slowly pricing itself out of the market."

A quick search shows competing phones in the same market are similarly priced

Thus, Apple is not, in fact, pricing itself out of the market.

The end.

PS. Don't particularly care about other phone manufacturers. Only Apple and Nokia interest me. Nokia is gone so now my only focus is Apple. The article was about Apple.

 

[garirry]

They're actually too expensive worldwide.

Edit:
A quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ￥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

I agree but there's a MASSIVE error in your calculations. In GB and Australia, you have calculated the price that includes VAT. The problem is that you didn't do the same of USD or for Japan (and probably Brazil too). You have to calculate either the FINAL price, or the PRE-TAX price. Regardless, here in Canada the iPhone is also expensive, as it costs $899 (which BTW dollar worth doesn't decrease for us Canadians, it's only the ex rate), which is $689, which isn't a lot of difference, but is still shameful considering the country is directly north of the US. The iPhone SE also costs $44 dollars after exchange rate.

 

[smacrumon]

I agree but there's a MASSIVE error in your calculations. In GB and Australia, you have calculated the price that includes VAT. The problem is that you didn't do the same of USD or for Japan (and probably Brazil too). You have to calculate either the FINAL price, or the PRE-TAX price. Regardless, here in Canada the iPhone is also expensive, as it costs $899 (which BTW dollar worth doesn't decrease for us Canadians, it's only the ex rate), which is $689, which isn't a lot of difference, but is still shameful considering the country is directly north of the US. The iPhone SE also costs $44 dollars after exchange rate.

There isn't a massive error. I've referred to the lowest price listed on the Apple site for each region, as stated on the site including taxes where it states taxes. US state taxes range from 0% to 10% with average of 5.05%. I've included pricing with and without taxes for the sample countries to be clear and accurate. In all those case, pricing is more expensive outside the US.

 

[toph2toast]

To avoid aggravating other forum commenters further with continuous notifications, this is probably my last comment on this, but I think you've missed the point of the original article. The focus is on iPhone and pricing of iPhone around the world, specifically in India. Quote from article: "Apple CEO Tim Cook admitted that iPhones are too expensive in India" ... "According to a recent report from Deutsche Bank, India is among the most expensive places in the world to buy an iPhone. Prices there average 31 percent higher than the U.S., with only iPhones in Sweden, Indonesia, and Brazil proving more costly."
iPhone is more costly outside of the US in many regions including the ones I listed on the first page of the forum based on Apple's own website.
Have a good day.

I've missed the point of the article but you've rambled on about prices in other countries, not just India, and ranted about warranties, you know, since thats on topic. Funny that every time I state facts that counter your claims, you just ignore me and cower away. Great job, you really showed me.
[doublepost=1464220070][/doublepost]

PS. Don't particularly care about other phone manufacturers. Only Apple and Nokia interest me. Nokia is gone so now my only focus is Apple. The article was about Apple.

You may not care, but I'm sure Apple does. You think they just pull a number out of the air regarding their pricing, or do you think the look at what their competitors charge and set a price accordingly? Thats business 101.

I enjoy how you keep going back to "the article is about Apple" but make comments regarding the market as a whole. Glad it only OK when it suits your points but not mine. Well played.

 

[diipii]

iMac pricing is AUD $1,699! iPhone or iMac? I think I could not do without iMac if I had to choose.
11-inch MacBook Air from A$1,399. 13-inch MacBook Pro from A$1,699 RRP.
Yes, iPhone is severely overpriced in the Aussie land.

"I think I could not do without iMac" Well and truly Cooked up! The world is full of great computers that have nothing to do with the Appleverse.

 

[smacrumon]

"I think I could not do without iMac" Well and truly Cooked up! The world is full of great computers that have nothing to do with the Appleverse.

For ten years (about ten years ago) I wanted to buy an iMac, i couldn't afford it. Eventually I saved enough to buy one and the experience was much, much, much better than any other Windows PC I had before it, and better than any other Windows PC I've had to use in a variety of contexts since. I agree, there is certainly life outside the Appleverse, but Apple have made some very good products in the past.

 

[toph2toast]

So much for not replying anymore in order to " avoid aggravating other forum commenters further with continuous notifications"

 

[smacrumon]

So much for not replying anymore in order to " avoid aggravating other forum commenters further with continuous notifications"

Someone new replied to a comment I posted. I was previously referring to our protracted conversation, I think we reached the limit before triggering a catastrophic error. Have a great day!

 

[toph2toast]

Someone new replied to a comment I posted. I was previously referring to our protracted conversation, I think we reached the limit before triggering a catastrophic error. Have a great day!

Commentors get notifications regardless to who you reply to, and you've replied 4 times since making that comment, so your plan to "avoid aggravating" commentors isn't going great.

Also, catastrophic errors were made, on your part. One is your understanding of bringing a product to market, and the other is your understanding of market pricing.

Enjoy cloud 9, they must have some great stuff up there!

 

[MRxROBOT]

There isn't a massive error. I've referred to the lowest price listed on the Apple site for each region, as stated on the site including taxes where it states taxes. US state taxes range from 0% to 10% with average of 5.05%. I've included pricing with and without taxes for the sample countries to be clear and accurate. In all those case, pricing is more expensive outside the US.

There are more taxes applied than just the state tax to the iPhone. How do you not understand the tax system in your own country? You are very obviously picking and choosing the information you want to apply in order to bolster your position. Take a step back, consider factual representative numbers and go back to the argument. There will still be many countries priced higher than the United States, but then you have to consider Apple is in fact not the key contributor to the large disparity in market prices rather it's said countries import taxes that should be at the mercy of your criticism.

 

[SBlue1]

Higher wages in Brazil? Extra significant taxes in the UK? There are no two year guarantees in those countries listed either, Apple offers just one year.

Who cares what Apple offers? In Europe there is a two year guarantee by law, no matter what Apple trys to tell you. There are taxes besides VAT like a copyright duty on iPhones in Germany. And how about the difference in business cost in the UK? Have you ever wondered why hotels are more expense in London?

 

[smacrumon]

There are more taxes applied than just the state tax to the iPhone. How do you not understand the tax system in your own country? You are very obviously picking and choosing the information you want to apply in order to bolster your position. Take a step back, consider factual representative numbers and go back to the argument. There will still be many countries priced higher than the United States, but then you have to consider Apple is in fact not the key contributor to the large disparity in market prices rather it's said countries import taxes that should be at the mercy of your criticism.

I'm not about to calculate a list of all 50 states. If that's what you are asking, then you might as well ask me to calculate the same for the states/provinces in those other countries as well. As previously said, to keep it even and straightforward, I've referred to the lowest price listed on the Apple site for each region, as stated on the Apple site including the taxes where the Apple website mentions taxes. I've included pricing with and without taxes for the sample countries to be clear and accurate for further comparison. In all those cases, pricing is more expensive outside the US.
Please be my guest to calculate every possible combination for each ZIP code in the US, but please make sure you do the same for all ZIP/postal codes for the other countries as well.

 

[MRxROBOT]

I'm not about to calculate a list of all 50 states. If that's what you are asking, then you might as well ask me to calculate the same for the states/provinces in those other countries as well. As previously said, to keep it even and straightforward, I've referred to the lowest price listed on the Apple site for each region, as stated on the Apple site including the taxes where the Apple website mentions taxes. I've included pricing with and without taxes for the sample countries to be clear and accurate for further comparison. In all those cases, pricing is more expensive outside the US.
Please be my guest to calculate every possible combination for each ZIP code in the US, but please make sure you do the same for all ZIP/postal codes for the other countries as well.

I did you one better and already gave you the average tax paid by Americans on consumer goods. Perhaps you should figure out the import tax rate for said countries, adjust prices accordingly and then compare them to Apple's tax free price. Only then you would have a fair comparison. Right now you are just picking and choosing figures to attain the widest margin and punctuate you point.

 

[smacrumon]

Who cares what Apple offers? In Europe there is a two year guarantee by law, no matter what Apple trys to tell you. There are taxes besides VAT like a copyright duty on iPhones in Germany. And how about the difference in business cost in the UK? Have you ever wondered why hotels are more expense in London?

As previously said, to keep it even and straightforward, I've referred to the lowest price listed on the Apple site for each region, as stated on the Apple site including the taxes where the Apple website mentions taxes. The lowest price the customer could pay.

Well, some people who buy Apple products think that a one year Apple warranty is all they have. They don't recognize that they may have additional automatic warranties/guarantees for much longer.

For example, in many cases, buying AppleCare is entirely pointless and a waste of money because a number of jurisdictions around the world have good consumer rights when it comes to automatic customer guarantees on the products which they purchase.

In a number of countries around the world, for example in the UK, customers have automatic warrantee periods that are in addition to Apple's 1 year, in which customers can make a claim. In some countries, Apple has been forced to acknowledge these additional rights customers have alongside their standard Apple 1 year guarantee, for instance, in the UK describes customers have at least 5 years automatic guarantees:

"Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods."
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/


[doublepost=1464282893][/doublepost]

I did you one better and already gave you the average tax paid by Americans on consumer goods. Perhaps you should figure out the import tax rate for said countries, adjust prices accordingly and then compare them to Apple's tax free price. Only then you would have a fair comparison. Right now you are just picking and choosing figures to attain the widest margin and punctuate you point.

Well maybe you could do that calculation yourself and at the same time factor in overseas trade discounts and a whole bunch of other credits, tax concessions, tax reductions, that Apple might receive doing business in other countries.
At the end of the day, it is the final price the customer cares about. These other things are irrelevant. They are for Apple to sort out and harmonize. Customers outside the US pay more for iPhones and they shouldn't.

 

[toph2toast]

As previously said, to keep it even and straightforward, I've referred to the lowest price listed on the Apple site for each region, as stated on the Apple site including the taxes where the Apple website mentions taxes. The lowest price the customer could pay.

Well, some people who buy Apple products think that a one year Apple warranty is all they have. They don't recognize that they may have additional automatic warranties/guarantees for much longer.

For example, in many cases, buying AppleCare is entirely pointless and a waste of money because a number of jurisdictions around the world have good consumer rights when it comes to automatic customer guarantees on the products which they purchase.

In a number of countries around the world, for example in the UK, customers have automatic warrantee periods that are in addition to Apple's 1 year, in which customers can make a claim. In some countries, Apple has been forced to acknowledge these additional rights customers have alongside their standard Apple 1 year guarantee, for instance, in the UK describes customers have at least 5 years automatic guarantees:

"Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods."
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

There you go rambling on about warranties again.

Since you mentioned this to me, I'll return the favor - the subject of the article is "iPhones too expensive in India, says Apple CEO Tim cook"

 

[MRxROBOT]

Well maybe you could do that calculation yourself and at the same time factor in overseas trade discounts and a whole bunch of other credits, tax concessions, tax reductions, that Apple might receive doing business in other countries.
At the end of the day, it is the final price the customer cares about. These other things are irrelevant. They are for Apple to sort out and harmonize. Customers outside the US pay more for iPhones and they shouldn't.

If you want to draw comparisons in regards to price for the end user, you need to use a price that is representative of what the average American pays for an iPhone. Anything less is only being used to widen the price gap and bolster your argument, but that is already blatantly obvious to everyone in this thread other than you. If you want to use tax free rates in one country, you need to take it upon yourself to figure out the rates for other countries you are referencing. The comparisons you've drawn are nothing short of intellectual sloppiness.

 

[smacrumon]

If you want to draw comparisons in regards to price for the end user, you need to use a price that is representative of what the average American pays for an iPhone. Anything less is only being used to widen the price gap and bolster your argument, but that is already blatantly obvious to everyone in this thread other than you. If you want to use tax free rates in one country, you need to take it upon yourself to figure out the rates for other countries you are referencing. The comparisons you've drawn are nothing short of intellectual sloppiness.

No, you are completely mistaken. Prices with and without taxes have been used as they are listed exactly on Apple's website. Where a country or a region in a country has taxes, the lowest price is used, along with the word "from".
There is no aim here to widen the price gap or bolster an argument, these prices are coming straight from Apple. There is no intellectual sloppiness here. If you dispute the figures, investigate the websites as I did and provide your account.
Take Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
http://www.apple.com/br/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s/tela-de-4,7-polegadas-16gb-prateado
Take Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB.
http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s/4.7-inch-display-16gb-silver

 

[MRxROBOT]

No, you are completely mistaken. Prices with and without taxes have been used as they are listed exactly on Apple's website. Where a country or a region in a country has taxes, the lowest price is used, along with the word "from".
There is no aim here to widen the price gap or bolster an argument, these prices are coming straight from Apple. There is no intellectual sloppiness here. If you dispute the figures, investigate the websites as I did and provide your account.
Take Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
http://www.apple.com/br/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s/tela-de-4,7-polegadas-16gb-prateado
Take Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB.
http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s/4.7-inch-display-16gb-silver

Brazil is the extreme in your example list though isn't it? It is already understood that the price is inflated because of an exorbitant tax rate that you could not reasonably expect Apple to absorb.

You second quote is misleading. You're quoting the price difference between the tax free rate in the U.S.and the VAT inclusive rate in the UK. If you were to compare tax free rates between both nations the price difference comes down to $6.36. When you factor fluctuation in currency exchange rates, this should be considered a wash. Using the appropriate figures does't quite give you the dramatic price difference though does it? In turn the comparison you've drawn is in fact nothing short of intellectual sloppiness or perhaps purposely misleading to bolster your argument.

 

[smacrumon]

Brazil is the extreme in your example list though isn't it? It is already understood that the price is inflated because of an exorbitant tax rate that you could not reasonably expect Apple to absorb.

You second quote is misleading. You're quoting the price difference between the tax free rate in the U.S.and the VAT inclusive rate in the UK. If you were to compare tax free rates between both nations the price difference comes down to $6.36. When you factor fluctuation in currency exchange rates, this should be considered a wash. Using the appropriate figures does't quite give you the dramatic price difference though does it? In turn the comparison you've drawn is in fact nothing short of intellectual sloppiness or perhaps purposely misleading to bolster your argument.

The Brazil example isn't an extreme case, there are others including Russia, China, Indonesia, India (as mentioned in the story), South Africa, New Zealand, Phillipines, Mexico, Switzerland, Australia, France etc.

Although I've included the VAT free price for information, in Great Britain customers pay the price with the VAT included or £539.00 which equates to $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB.

Nothing misleading about that. What are your motivations for underplaying this all?

 

[MRxROBOT]

The Brazil example isn't an extreme case

that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB.

Okay than let's look at Brazil's pricing. The cost of an iPhone is R$ 3,999. The iPhone is subject to 60% in taxes when entering Brazil. In turn, before tax the iPhone is R$2,499 or $697 USD. Since you continue to use the U.S. tax free rate when comparing the iPhone across nations perhaps you should quote tax free rates across all nations.

The fact is you continue to state the iPhone is $137.86 more in the UK but in reality it is only $6 more in the UK before VAT. Considering fluctuating currency exchange rates this is a wash.

In your most extreme case you claim an iPhone is $472.11 more in Brazil, when it's really only $52 more in Brazil before being subjected to taxes. Considering the volatile nature of this currency, this price is right in line. In fact the iPhone cost $649 in Brazil in March due to this fluctuation. If you’re curious about taxes and fees in regards to Brazil, Sony did an excellent write up outlining the excessive taxes and fees it’s products are subject to in Brazil.

Your incessant desire to quote only the tax free rate in the U.S. while quoting the taxed rate everywhere else is is transparently being used to widen the price margin to bolster your stance. I could stay and argue this with you till my fingers are blue but I feel any thoughts of having rational intelligent discourse with you will be in vain.

 

[Michael Goff]

They're actually too expensive worldwide.

Edit:
A quick sample of pricing:
iPhone 6s Silver 16GB
USA - $649.00 = $649.00 USD
Brazil - R$ 3.999 = $1121.11 USD - that's $472.11 USD extra the customer pays in BR
Great Britain - £449 (£539.00 - VAT £90.00) = $655.36 USD or $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB
Australia - $980 ($1,079.00 - GST $99) = $701.88 USD or $772.78 USD including GST which is what the customer pays - that's $123.78 USD extra the customer pays in AU
Japan - ￥78,800 = $719.19 USD - that's $70.19 USD extra the customer pays in JP

They can hardly be the only ones blamed for the pricing in Brazil.

 

[toph2toast]

The Brazil example isn't an extreme case, there are others including Russia, China, Indonesia, India (as mentioned in the story), South Africa, New Zealand, Phillipines, Mexico, Switzerland, Australia, France etc.

Although I've included the VAT free price for information, in Great Britain customers pay the price with the VAT included or £539.00 which equates to $786.86 USD including VAT which is what the customer pays - that's $137.86 USD extra the customer pays in GB.

Nothing misleading about that. What are your motivations for underplaying this all?

This article is about India, not Great Britain. Stay on topic.

 

[reilogix]

Cook also said "...We are what we are. We're a California company."

Oh, really? Then why don't you pay your taxes on all that money you funnel through Ireland?!?