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iPod and iBook Complaints?
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Re: Which ibooks
Only the newer, Dual USB iBooks. None of the clamshell iBooks have the problem.
Only the newer, Dual USB iBooks. None of the clamshell iBooks have the problem.
Yellow dog linux has a very user friendly interface, and it is made for macs so all the buttons are pre-programed (i.e. volume, eject button)
Hrm, class action status has nothing to do with the burdens of proof. The main purpose of class action is to consolidate resources and (for plaintiffs) to provide such potentially high liability as to make the defendants much more willing to settle than they would with individual plaintiffs.
OK. youre right. non geeks pretty much only have linux systems. but my point was that there are other options.
So the 1500 (assuming people only signed on to one not both of the web sites) signatures and approximately 1.3 million sold. I would expect alot more if it was a design flaw.
My experience has been that Apple takes care of their customers better than ANY OTHER manufacturer. I was a reseller from 1988-1996 and Apple was far and away the best in taking care of customers even when warranties had expired. Every company has problematic designs but it seems Apple gets crucified for theirs while others don't.
As for Apple quality, my experience has been phenomenal. I've owned an SE, LC, IIsi, Quadra 700, PowerBook 3400, Performa 6400, iMac and iPod and I have never needed a repair on any of them. Add 2 LaserWriters to that list. I did have problems with an Apple 15" display and one call to them and it was replaced.
iBook and iPod
I have an original 5GB iPod, purchased a couple of months after it was introduced more than two years ago ... played it just the other day at work. It lasted the eight hours I was there and still had plenty of power left. I bet I could get at least 10 hours of play time out of it.
I also had a 500MHz Dual USB iBook. As of last summer, when I sold it, it was two years old and did start to develop the flickering screen issue and the hard drive died. I did not purchase AppleCare (meant to, but never got around to it), so I had to fix it myself. Wasn't that big of a deal, although taking the screen and the hinge apart was a little complicated. The flickering screen problem turned out to be a pinched wire in the hinge.
I have an original 5GB iPod, purchased a couple of months after it was introduced more than two years ago ... played it just the other day at work. It lasted the eight hours I was there and still had plenty of power left. I bet I could get at least 10 hours of play time out of it.
I also had a 500MHz Dual USB iBook. As of last summer, when I sold it, it was two years old and did start to develop the flickering screen issue and the hard drive died. I did not purchase AppleCare (meant to, but never got around to it), so I had to fix it myself. Wasn't that big of a deal, although taking the screen and the hinge apart was a little complicated. The flickering screen problem turned out to be a pinched wire in the hinge.
I bought a 800 MHz iBook in November 2002. Within the span of nine months, it was sent in for repair three times to replace a bad logic board and sometimes the wiring harness going to the display. About two months later, the tell-tale symptoms of imminent logic board failure started showing up again. Being a little fed up with repetitive failures, I took my problem to customer support, rather than trying my luck with an AppleCare repair again. Originally they were going to offer me a replacement iBook due to all the trouble I was experiencing. Having had my laptop fail on me so many times, I no longer felt comfortable relying on the current design of the iBook. So, after a bit of negotiation, I was eventually allowed to sent back my laptop permanantly in return for Apple store credit. In total, I was credited back what I paid for my iBook almost a year ago (excluding hardware upgrades such as an airport card and extra memory). Combined with a cashier's check for about $1300, I upgraded my way to a new 1.25 GHz powerbook.
While it was somewhat frustrating being without my iBook so many times, I am very happy that customer service gave me the upgrade option. Had I opted for a replacement, I'm sure my logic board would be on its way out again sometime soon.
While it was somewhat frustrating being without my iBook so many times, I am very happy that customer service gave me the upgrade option. Had I opted for a replacement, I'm sure my logic board would be on its way out again sometime soon.
I have two friends that have iBooks. One has been fine from day one. The other had his display die on him. Got it replaced. Then started to have hard drive problems. He called Apple support. They had him repair the permission and it seemed to fix the problem for all of 7 days. After that the hard drive itself started making noises. HE called back. The tech told him to reinstall the OS. I'm sorry but if the drive itself is making bad noises reinstalling the OS isn't going to help. He had to actually hold the laptop up to the phone to convince the tech. I'm sorry but for the amount that people pay for Apple care they shouldn't have to "convince" these people that there are problems with their systems esp if we are talking about a hard drive that is clicking like mad and is having problems booting. Esp when you consider that most PCs, be it desktops or laptops, come with 3 year warrantees by default with uber warrantees available for $150 or so. Sorry but quality control on software and hardware needs to be better and someone needs to clean up the mess in tech support.
With regards to the Ipod battery issue I would like to make two comments:
1/ Of course users expect and understand that batteries in battery powered appliances such as cellphones will degrade over time. The reason this situation is accepted is that the hardware design allows the user to purchase a replacement battery as and when neccessary and install it themselves.
The iPod does not.
You are purchasing a sealed unit with an - up till now - finite, undefined timespan for a not insignificant sum of money. This hardware design flaw is the core issue as I see it.
2/ The widely applauded recent introduction of a battery replacement program further highlights this design flaw, but at least a user has an avenue now to extend the life of their iPods.
If you live in the USA
If however you are one of the many thousands living outside of the USA you are hosed as this warrenty doesnt extend to us currently. So please, less of the "there is a warranty, deal with it" comments.
Frankly I think this action - together with the iBook issue - is perfectly acceptable and long overdue. With luck Apple will realise that their Quality control needs to be improved, that hardware design should take into account real life usage and that in future they should be more open in acknowledging issues as they arise.
As a related aside The Powerbook 15" debacle is a case in point. If one didnt have access to such forums as MacRumors you would never know of the risk involved in parting with £2K+ to purchase one of these machines. As has been pointed out a 2% market share should focus the minds on keeping each and every customer informed, supported and kept in the loop to secure a strong base of customer loyalty to build on. Recent evidence appears to suggest that this has been forgotten.
Vanilla
1/ Of course users expect and understand that batteries in battery powered appliances such as cellphones will degrade over time. The reason this situation is accepted is that the hardware design allows the user to purchase a replacement battery as and when neccessary and install it themselves.
The iPod does not.
You are purchasing a sealed unit with an - up till now - finite, undefined timespan for a not insignificant sum of money. This hardware design flaw is the core issue as I see it.
2/ The widely applauded recent introduction of a battery replacement program further highlights this design flaw, but at least a user has an avenue now to extend the life of their iPods.
If you live in the USA
If however you are one of the many thousands living outside of the USA you are hosed as this warrenty doesnt extend to us currently. So please, less of the "there is a warranty, deal with it" comments.
Frankly I think this action - together with the iBook issue - is perfectly acceptable and long overdue. With luck Apple will realise that their Quality control needs to be improved, that hardware design should take into account real life usage and that in future they should be more open in acknowledging issues as they arise.
As a related aside The Powerbook 15" debacle is a case in point. If one didnt have access to such forums as MacRumors you would never know of the risk involved in parting with £2K+ to purchase one of these machines. As has been pointed out a 2% market share should focus the minds on keeping each and every customer informed, supported and kept in the loop to secure a strong base of customer loyalty to build on. Recent evidence appears to suggest that this has been forgotten.
Vanilla
I had a 700MHZ ibook and sent in twice for logic board failures. I also called customer support. They were going to replace it with a like for like new, however, they did not have any. After some bantering back and forth, They agreed to upgrade me to a revB powerbook. I am on the road quite a bit, so a laptop is essential for my job. I'm very happy for the upgrade, but for those of you that haven't experienced it, cross your fingers. Nothing worse then putting on a presentation and your ibook screen flickers, horizontal lines, and goes black.
I have a second generation 10GB iPod that still has great battery life. My iBook has never had any problems.
Ask me about FW 400 drives...and that's a different story. That's a lawsuit I'd be interested in.
Ask me about FW 400 drives...and that's a different story. That's a lawsuit I'd be interested in.
So, what you are saying is that Apple should become the only tech company that has 100% perfection and make machines that will never, ever break... in which case you don't even need to think about buying extended warranty. I think you might want to re-think that, stop being silly and just deal with the fact that computers, esp ones on the cutting edge fitting a super computer into a container 1 inch think, are likely to have problems, some small, some major but your warranty covers them. Take it to a service centre and ask if you can keep it until the replacement screen is in stock and then it is only about a 2-3 hour change over on the screen.
As for the iPod battery issue, my mobile phone has 6 months warranty and then I have to buy a new battery if it dies. iPods have 1 year with optional 2 years... that is up to 4x better than a mobile phone.
I had this problem with my iBook 500 back at the beginning of 2003. Thinking that it was just one of these things I took it into my local Apple Centre <www.scotsys.co.uk> and they replaced the mobo for a whopping £315 (~$500). The moronic idiots at this place also managed to dent my DVD-ROM drive so that it scratched the disks whenever they were put in. Fortunately I was able to fix that myself rather than send it back in for more damage to be done. Anyway I feel rather cheated now that I know this is a real design flaw rather than "just one of these things" and would really like a refund of the money I payed for this. This is a lot of money for a student to pay for a problem that should never have happened. Its not going to stop me getting a new iPod after MacWorld though 
Bear in mind that you're paying for labor costs as well. If you're willing to do it yourself, replacement batteries are $49 and the battery is not hard to access.
For what it's worth, my iPod is over two years old and I still get a solid five or six hours of battery life out if it.
Labour costs of what? my cell phone battery? or the iPod?
mine is new ... so i guess i don't have to worry about the battery life yet ... But a second battery would also be nice to have for the iPod.
THe Belkin Battery Pack is quite bulky .. so an internal battery replacement would be nice to have
i've looked over my iPod and i can't see an easy way of accessing it without the use of tools and potentially damaging the fragile finish of the iPod....
I've noticed that if you push on the back the seems open to get a tool in ... but again ... i could see even a plastic tool damaging the finish
Definitely an iBook problem
Hi - I've had two logic boards fail in my iBook 700/16VRAM. First was at 400 days, second was 28 days after Apple replaced the first. The third one has been fine since early November; perhaps Apple has worked out a fix. For a while they were swapping out the dead boards with refurbed ones but not addressing the problem - turns out the video chip was coming loose from the logic board and wreaking havoc - shorting out, etc.
There are many hundreds of users who have experienced this problem and there are now active discussions of the issue all over the web (thanks to the media for picking up on this stuff finally- turns out a bunch of media houses experienced the problems themselves!)
As for the class action suit that's being pulled together (I've signed on), I agree that the lawyers do make out, but it is also the only way to put pressure on Apple to admit there's an issue. To date they have stuck with "no known issues" which is infuriating to the large number of owners who have experienced the failure. I hope that Apple comes to grips with the problem before the class action suit goes through; if not, I'm all for it. The suits have been necessary several times in the past with Apple. They make lots of great products but some turn out to be lemons!
My advice? If you need a laptop, stay away from iBooks- buy a powerbook if you can afford it, otherwise look at Dell.
Hi - I've had two logic boards fail in my iBook 700/16VRAM. First was at 400 days, second was 28 days after Apple replaced the first. The third one has been fine since early November; perhaps Apple has worked out a fix. For a while they were swapping out the dead boards with refurbed ones but not addressing the problem - turns out the video chip was coming loose from the logic board and wreaking havoc - shorting out, etc.
There are many hundreds of users who have experienced this problem and there are now active discussions of the issue all over the web (thanks to the media for picking up on this stuff finally- turns out a bunch of media houses experienced the problems themselves!)
As for the class action suit that's being pulled together (I've signed on), I agree that the lawyers do make out, but it is also the only way to put pressure on Apple to admit there's an issue. To date they have stuck with "no known issues" which is infuriating to the large number of owners who have experienced the failure. I hope that Apple comes to grips with the problem before the class action suit goes through; if not, I'm all for it. The suits have been necessary several times in the past with Apple. They make lots of great products but some turn out to be lemons!
My advice? If you need a laptop, stay away from iBooks- buy a powerbook if you can afford it, otherwise look at Dell.
It's easy to slam lawyers, but the facts often tell a different story. Lawyers don't make a penny from a class action suit unless they win in court or unless the company settles. In the former case, the lawyers must *prove* that the product was defective and that the defect caused the problem consumers are complaining about. In the case of a settlement, the plaintiffs' lawyers must convince the company's lawyers that they will be able to prove their case in court. Otherwise, a company with the legal resources of Apple would never think of settling. To prove a complex case like either of these, the law firm must commission scientific studies, hire experts for evaluation, etc., all at the law firm's expense. In cases such as this, it is not uncommon for a firm to spend more than a million dollars preparing the case for trial. This is all money that the firm will *lose* if their case doesn't prevail.
That money is an important (and very effective) safeguard against frivolous litigation. Moreover, if the firm wins, much of its fee will go to cover the costs associated with getting the case ready for trial. What seems like a high attorney fee therefore usually isn't. (The average lawyer makes only about $40,000 per year.) Lawyers do hope to make money, of course, but the threat of losing is every bit as much a check on plaintiffs as it is on companies that might otherwise release defective products to save money themselves.
One more point: I don't know anything about the iBook issue, but in the case of the iPods, a firm is merely posting a request for feedback from consumers. A firm that does class action work definitely keeps its ear to the ground for potentially winnable suits (that is, cases where product defects *can* be proven). Thus, when something like the alleged iPod battery problems makes the news, it will get their attention. But then begins a long process of deciding whether the company did in fact do something wrong, and whether the case can be proven in court. If not, it will be abandoned (the law firm absorbing the costs of the work it did to determine this). That's where the iPod "case" is right now. Nothing has been filed, but its viability is being assessed.
This process is very healthy for our economy. Because of some successful suits and the threat that a company could be sued for acting wrongfully, consumers generally can expect products they buy to work as advertised, and that's a good thing. Where that's the case, the company doesn't have anything to worry about (as no firm will waste money pursuing a case with no support).
As someone with ties to the legal profession, I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of lawyers are motivated not by greed, but by a desire to serve a great and noble system. It is, after all, one of the only professions where ethical issues are taught in schools and constantly considered by those practicing the profession. And without their work, we would have a very different quality of life.
elo
That money is an important (and very effective) safeguard against frivolous litigation. Moreover, if the firm wins, much of its fee will go to cover the costs associated with getting the case ready for trial. What seems like a high attorney fee therefore usually isn't. (The average lawyer makes only about $40,000 per year.) Lawyers do hope to make money, of course, but the threat of losing is every bit as much a check on plaintiffs as it is on companies that might otherwise release defective products to save money themselves.
One more point: I don't know anything about the iBook issue, but in the case of the iPods, a firm is merely posting a request for feedback from consumers. A firm that does class action work definitely keeps its ear to the ground for potentially winnable suits (that is, cases where product defects *can* be proven). Thus, when something like the alleged iPod battery problems makes the news, it will get their attention. But then begins a long process of deciding whether the company did in fact do something wrong, and whether the case can be proven in court. If not, it will be abandoned (the law firm absorbing the costs of the work it did to determine this). That's where the iPod "case" is right now. Nothing has been filed, but its viability is being assessed.
This process is very healthy for our economy. Because of some successful suits and the threat that a company could be sued for acting wrongfully, consumers generally can expect products they buy to work as advertised, and that's a good thing. Where that's the case, the company doesn't have anything to worry about (as no firm will waste money pursuing a case with no support).
As someone with ties to the legal profession, I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of lawyers are motivated not by greed, but by a desire to serve a great and noble system. It is, after all, one of the only professions where ethical issues are taught in schools and constantly considered by those practicing the profession. And without their work, we would have a very different quality of life.
elo