iPod Flash Early 2005?

[alywa]

Are we losing sight of the big picture?

I find it fascinating that so many people are against this. I know tons of people who are using iTunes on their PC as their intro into "digitized music" (ie ripping music off of their own CD's). I have had many conversations with them trying to explain that MP3's are different than AAC are different than WMA, etc.

"So, can you take your iPod to the gym?", "I don't have 10,000 songs", "It's just a little too big".

Why can't people see this for what it is. An inexpensive, high-quality flash based player that (ready for it....) WILL INTEGRATE WITH iTUNES!!!!!

Right now, to fully integrate with iTunes, one needs an expensive, HD based player. This is more than many people want. Instead, a small form-factor flashed based player will give them what they want, integrate with iTunes, and allow them to purchase from the ITMS.

Let's keep a close eye on this thread over the next few months... I'm willing to bet that these things will be impossible to get due to overwhelming demand once they are introduced. Remember... there are a lot more non-geeks out there than we are surrounded with in our worlds.

-alywa
(proud 4g 40GB iPod owner)

 

[AirUncleP]

....I give you.....

Ladies and Gentlemen....I give you......the iPod Micro

 

[hughdogg]

Why can't people see this for what it is. An inexpensive, high-quality flash based player that (ready for it....) WILL INTEGRATE WITH iTUNES!!!!!

Right now, to fully integrate with iTunes, one needs an expensive, HD based player. This is more than many people want. Instead, a small form-factor flashed based player will give them what they want, integrate with iTunes, and allow them to purchase from the ITMS.

1. My thoughts exactly.
2. Can the flash memory be removable without causing the record companies to have a stroke that people will be swapping the cards with friends, ebay, etc.??? Can the DRM work on flash cards?

Cheers,
hughdogg

 

[toughboy]

Ill stick with my 20GB one. What can you do with only 1GB?

I just entered to see what people think about a 1gb player and it is nice seeing that the first post is totally agreeing with me.. a week later I'm going to upgrade my harddisk drive from 40gb to 200gb and I'm planning to make a music collection of 50gb or more.. well what can a flashbased player do to me??? plus I want to carry divx and other stuff with my iPod too..

 

[applekid]

Apparently the hip-hop crowd Apple is targeting is too poor to afford even an iPod Mini. Steve, we'll need a 512 MB at the minimum with a 2 GB at the maximum that is well under $200.

I do think the flash market is viable despite Steve's potential contradiction on the topic, but there are a few things that concern me:

Anybody seen the latest USB-based flash MP3 players? So, let's assume we'll see Firewire since this is Apple. Perhaps a dock? A tiny tiny dock...

Now the shape... The competition comes in a triangular prism stick shape. Apple, will need something much smaller than the iPod Mini to compete now. Look around, iRiver and Mpio have prism stick MP3 players. I'd like to see a flat stick like those USB flash memory sticks, but that may be to small. Perhaps something that looks like a really tiny iPod. It'll display maybe four lines or so, shrink the scroll-wheel a bit. How's something about 2 inches by 2.5 inches? It's more square than the other iPods. It'll need to be thick enough for a headphone jack and then some.

Add power... The competition only needs to add a AA or AAA battery. Apple going to go rechargeable? Can Apple find a battery that small? This time, battery life really matters. The competition can last up to 60 hours. You may wonder why, but think about it: They don't want/need to recharge it and they probably won't need to modify their playlist often enough.

Expandable? This is the stumper. Will adopt a memory card standard (which I doubt) or will they have non-removable flash inside? I think Apple doesn't want anything to be removable.

Price point? 1 GB flash-based MP3 players are going for under $200. In fact, it's about $180 to get one of those. Well, Apple might play it right and sell whatever their maximum size is at $199 and going as low as $99.

We'll see next year.

 

[toughboy]

Apple needs to quit being so obsessed with the iPod, I mean, even the new iMac is an iPod look alike. The iPod is great, I love it, and a cheaper and more accessable iPod for the low end is great, but I thought that Apple made computers??!?!?

Apple needs to make a inexpensive headless mac, I know friends that have an iPod and love it, but would never buy a mac becuase they are too expensive, and they can't play the majority of the PC games.

Which leads me to part 2, Apple needs to take the initiative and port PC games to the mac. They have the ability to make the games the most compatible and run optimimally becuase they have access to the OS X source code, and they have the cash to pay for the rights to port the games.

If Apple had a headless mac, and ported games, there would be no reason for people to use a PC, Period. I know that it is no easy task to take on, but it needs to be done, if apple wants to get more people to buy mac computers.

I'm not with you with the idea of iPod-obsessiveness, cause I like the harmony that iMac G5 and iPod has.. Apple should sell more and iPods, cause as they sell them, they'll sell more music too. Plus iMac and iPod look good together, as an iPod lover and 2-3rd generation iPod user, I wished I could have enough money to buy an iMac G5...

But the rest of your opinions, I could not agree more. a cheap, good enough to beat a Pentium 4 and headless mac and porting the games into Mac platform would beat the PCs in every sense. there would be noone buying PCs then...

 

[Jovian9]

Flash is a great idea because there is a huge market there. Remember all the contradictions Steve has made in the past like no windows software, no pizza box imac, etc.

All of these things that were not supposed to be..........are. So when do we get an Apple PDA

 

[strikey]

ipod mini V2

Apple likes to do things in three's - iPod Mini, iPod, iPod Photo.

If there's going to be a flash based iPod, the Mini will lose it's hard drive and be replaced will a removable flash drive...

(We don't want too many models...anyone remember what was happening at Apple before Steve came back - too many models and losing too many $$$$)

After reading an hours worth of garbage about the so called flash ipod "smurfjammer" is the only one even close to the money.

Mark my words! There will be no new model "flash ipod"!!

The flash variant "is" Ver2 of the existing ipod mini. It will start at 1gb and evolve over time to an 8gb version as the price point of flash cards drop. Initially I predict that there will be 1gb & 2gb flash versions along side of 4gb & 8gb hd versions.

The good news will see a 1gb ipod at a lower price point.

The bad news for some is that the card wont be removable.

Mental telepathy with an Appleseed

 

[toughboy]

The memory card inside should be removable, Period! I dont care if Apple is going to do it in that way or not, but if I, as an iPod owner already, am going to buy a flash player for a different use (jogging etc) I'm going to buy something with removable flash card, removable batteries, and it will be small in size.

 

[tveric]

I remember when the Mini came out, and 90% of the geniuses posting on this website were like "oh man $249!!! that's crazy for 4 GB, it isn't enough, you can't do anything with that!"

Fast forward to the release of the Mini and you couldn't easily get your hands on one for MONTHS due to the crazy demand.

So why don't all you experts hang back a bit to see what happens. Odds are you'll be wrong again.

 

[unsigned]

sure, but..

2. Can the flash memory be removable without causing the record companies to have a stroke that people will be swapping the cards with friends, ebay, etc.??? Can the DRM work on flash cards?

Flash memory is just addressed like a drive. Ever have a memory card reader? It's all just a "mass storage device" to the computer.

If they have swappable cards, tho, it would have to be as big as the current mini (the hard drive in there is basically a compact flash card).

There's only two ways I can think of to get smaller: use SD card, or solder the ram on the motherboard. If you want to be smaller and cheaper, solder everything into one chip. It's how all the myriad flash players do it.


But then they have horrible interfaces. The mini already is perfectly fine in size. My personal problem is that there's a phone in my pocket, too, and also a camera.

ipod phone flash makes a ton of sense to me. iPod flash, eh, I guess I can see the market point and I hope I am surprised by apple.

click wheel touchscreen?


they did an interesting thing with the mini, they innovated on their bottom end and brought it to the top. I fit gets any simpler in a smart way, we can have smaller ipods also?

(except their drives make em that shape)

 

[toughboy]

I remember when the Mini came out, and 90% of the geniuses posting on this website were like "oh man $249!!! that's crazy for 4 GB, it isn't enough, you can't do anything with that!"

Fast forward to the release of the Mini and you couldn't easily get your hands on one for MONTHS due to the crazy demand.

So why don't all you experts hang back a bit to see what happens. Odds are you'll be wrong again.

the "iPod Micro" will sell, for sure, but it does not change the facts that

1) iPod Mini was wonderfully crafted and was STILL OVERPRICED
2) Apple, infact, is having real problems with supply chain management.

 

[FelixDerKater]

Personally, I think this is bad for sales. It may be helpful for certain groups, such as runners who can exhaust even the iPod's extensive anti-skip memory, as well as people not willing to pay the price for an iPod Mini or regular iPod. Apple runs the risk of cutting into sales of the other iPods, picking up only small amounts of revenue with the lower-capacity iPods.

 

[dejo]

Ladies and Gentlemen....I give you......the iPod Micro

Nice mockup, AirUncleP! I hate to nit-pick, but what is the height of your new iPod Micro? It's certainly not 3.6"...

 

[iAlan]

If the iPod Photo flops....

I am waiting to see if teh iPod Photo is a success or not before thinking about the success possibilities of a 'flashPod'.

Before talking about the flashPod but a little of topic...I think people will buy the iPod Photo because of capacity (60GB) not the photo capabiity. While I love the idea of photos being shared via a TV, I do not think the iPod is the best way. I actually make slideshows on DVD, given blank media disks are now between $2-$4 each (I got 5 Apple DVD-R for 1,260 yen ($14), cause I like the little Apple logo, but I have seen 10 packs by respected makers for 2,000 yen ($22) that work just fine) and can leave or give the disks to someone.

Back to the flashPod, why do people buy flash players? Is it cost, size of the device or memory size?

I can't imagine it is memory size.

If it is cost, then Apple will have to price it just right, but that may mean a cheapening of the Apple iPod brand, I mean those stupid little iPod socks are an example of a $5 idea being priced by Apple at $26..., so how could they offer a price compeditive flash player,Rremember there was not much choice on hard disk players when the iPod came out, and although people said it was too expensive, you have to remember it was head and shoulders above the existing hard discc players - and priced relatively competitively, and flash players were at that time just, well, crap.

If people are after flash playes because of size, how will Apple intergrate the often copied but never beaten interface? We have seen variations of the scroll wheel, but nothing comes close. What interface willa flashpod have (or a screen for that matter)? However, if anyone can redesign the Apple interface for a flash player, it will be Apple.

Bottom line, Apple does not need to cheapen the iPod franchise. People may trade up from a flashpod to an iPod if they get a good user experience, I do not think anyone will trade down after using an iPod, and some of us may use both( I mean, I have a first gen iPod which I will hold onto, but am no longer using. I have a 3rd gen (30GB first touch button design) which I sink with my whole library and a blue iPod mini which I sink with 'checked' songs only....and I want the U2Pod...) but Apple will be treading in deep water with this and I think a flashPod will be the iPod equivalent of teh Cube (great design, but badly priced and positioned).

 

[The Man]

How about this

How about seeing a 2 and 4 GB Apple Flash player. Now that I will consider buying. How about the 4 GB mini getting flash and Apple introducing a one color only 2 GB flash mini? Anything less than 2 GB seems pointless to me, because the iPod has always stood for getting lots of music with you.

 

[virividox]

im not a fan of flash bsically because of the storage size, but i can see some people who love the size of their flash players and dont really need al their music with them at all times so if apple can capture that market more power to them i suppose

 

[SiliconAddict]

I think a ipod flash player is a dumb idea....

Is everyone, OK maybe just most, just plain dense? Apple has decided to go it alone when it comes to iTMS. Consequently they have to provide the total solution. Like it or not this includes low end devices. (News flash $250 is NOT low end.) There is a LARGE market for flash players out there and if Apple doesn’t cover the low end they are going to see potential revenue erode because others will make these players and resulting customers will go to other music stores. Apple put themselves in this position by not licensing FairPlay.
I’m really sick of seeing arrogant snobs treat anything that doesn’t have X storage as inferior. The fact of the matter is there are people out there that can’t, and frankly in some cases won’t, spend $250+ on a hard drive device. Esp when they can get a device that accomplishes the basics of playing a few albums for a substantially cheaper price then an iPod. So please. For the love off all that is sane think about this before you crap on the idea of a flash player. How many of you were doing the same dang thing when Apple first came out with the iPod in the first place? Give it 6 months after it comes out and starts selling like a bat out of hell. You will all be calling it a brilliant, strategic move on Apple's part.

 

[Xtremehkr]

And when the "makeup mirror" iMac G4 was introduced, the Lord God Jobs said how stupid it would be to put the computer on the back of the LCD screen....

Then came the iMac G5, with the computer on the back of the LCD screen.

The man is without honour, totally without honour....

Well, it's quite admirable that someone can (in a way) admit that they are wrong. Maybe during the time the G4 iMac came out it would have been silly because of how it would have looked. I am imaging a hump backed iMac due to not having the right components. I would say that he has more honor in acknowleding that while at the time it may not have been a good idea, it is a good idea now. I think the new design of the iMac suits users needs perfectly, the more desktop space that is saved the better. He could have been self conscious and stuck to the norm, but that would have been to the detriment of the new space saving design. He's not a god, just a guy who is fallible, like us all.

 

[SpaceMagic]

The reason, I believe, Steve Jobs has negatively commented on 'those flash based players everyone gets for Christmas but never use" is because these players are not user friendly, unattractive and a pain in the *profanity* to get music on.

With the iTunes and iPod interface there can be no better way to transfer Music. Also, relying on the success of iPods, people with iPod Flash will want to show off that they too own an iPod. Surely a cheap $150 1 GB device will break this market.

All in all, my iTunes library is just over 6GB. The only choice for me is the iPod iPod

 

[jhomayne]

finally!

a small, cheap(!!!) ipod that i can stick a 50-100 song playlist on for when im going for a walk.

 

[timnosenzo]

I think it's cool. It fills a niche of buyers not willing to plunk down $250 on a mini, or people worried about destroying a HDD while they're out running or whatever.

 

[artifex]

this is only barely related, but

sorry, this is only related in the sense that it's about an ipod order:

I ordered a U2 iPod last month, and today I got an email stating it shipped.
I went to FedEx's website to confirm it, and got this:

Nov 13, 2004 3:46 PM
Left origin
SHANGHAI CN
3:06 PM
Picked up
SHANGHAI CN
Future delivery requested
11:10 AM
Package data transmitted to FedEx; package not in FedEx possession


1) Can someone tell me if there's going to be some kind of customs issue because it's shipping from freaking China??? I expected it to be from a warehouse here in the US.
2) also, they say the expected delivery is 11/19... since they also say "future delivery requested" does that mean they're telling FedEx to deliberately sit on my iPod (hopefully not really sit, like UPS would do without asking), or does that just mean when they first put the # in the system they hadn't picked up the package, yet?

Sorry, just anxious, this is my first Apple buying experience, and it's causing much more anxiety than I expected.

 

[sushi]

According to sources close to AppleInsider, the previously rumored (thread, thread, thread) flash memory-based iPod variant should go into production in December, and is expected to make a debut in early 2005. A production stockpile of 2 million units is expected to be produced prior to worldwide distribution in an effort to keep pace with demand. Interface and controls should be similar to the current click-wheel iPod and iPod Mini, and is expected to be in a storage capacity range of 256 Megabytes to 1 Gigabyte. Pricing is now expected below $200.

Steve Jobs introduced the iPod Mini at last year's MacWorld San Francisco to overwhelming success. It could be expected that the new iPod Flash could debut worldwide at the January MWSF 2005 show.

Flash MP3 players are the rage here in Japan. So many models...so many options.

A 1 or 2 GB model would be fantastic. Especially if the interface and integration with iTunes is similar to the current mini iPod. Want something thinner and lighter than the current mini iPod that has a much longer battery life. My current 256MB MP3 flash player runs 14 hours on a charge.

...and of course if the price was right.

For me the price point would be $150 for 1GB or $200 for 2GB.

Recording feature would be nice as well.

Here's hoping!

Sushi

 

[sushi]

I still can't believe it. At the introduction of the iPod Photo, Steve Jobs said that the huge market share of the iPod includes "all those flash players that people received as presents and never use".

I believe that SJ is referring to the cheap 64, 128, 256MB models that are selling like hotcakes these days.

They don't have enough space to hold much music.

Now a 1 or 2 GB model would be great.

Even at a high quality MP3 encoding (2MB per minute) you could still store over 8 hours of music on a 1Gb model. For many commuters, this would be plenty.

Sushi