artifex said:You know, Apple people. I'm an outsider
Also, I've been to the Canadian Mint, I loved those quarters you had back in the year 2000.
were those the provincial quarters?
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iPod Flash Early 2005?
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were those the provincial quarters?
To the render man: You should work at apple and replace or work closely with ian the designer. Or apple should hold a competition for young people to design products that they will find more usefull and apealing.
If I design the new flash ipod, I would make it flat in a smilar form to the aluminium powerbooks. A completely intergrated shape without any groves and absoultly flat. The interface would be touch sensitive through smoked plastic and illuminate when touched to show controls. The screen would be level with the controls in one flat smooth triple creditcard size.
If I design the new flash ipod, I would make it flat in a smilar form to the aluminium powerbooks. A completely intergrated shape without any groves and absoultly flat. The interface would be touch sensitive through smoked plastic and illuminate when touched to show controls. The screen would be level with the controls in one flat smooth triple creditcard size.
artifex said:Let me get this straight... it won't be removable, but you insist the memory will have that form factor anyway? Ever seen a USB pendrive? Ever seen a clear one? Ever seen how small the chip is that actually carries the memory?
Sure, but how much do they cost?? Ive seen 4gb pen drives @ $400, that's more costly than an ipod mini and they aren't that small either!
Mental telepathy with an Appleseed
artifex said:You know, Apple people. I'm an outsider
Ah, gotcha - makes sense now. Thanks for the compliment then.
artifex said:
Yah, those were pretty nice. It was either the year before or the year after that we has a quarter for each province and territory as well, which was cool. This year, there was an extremely limited number of special quarters released just about a week ago, for Remembrance Day (November 11th) - they actually had a red poppy (a symbolic flower, I won't get into it here...) in the center. Supposedly it's one of the only (if not THE only) quarter ever released in the world with color on it.
Which Mint did you visit? The one in Ottawa is the original mint, but the one in Winnipeg is the one which manufactures all the coinage now...
rickvanr said:
No, I think those were the Millennium quarters, each with different themes and designs. I think the provincial quarters were the year before, if I remember correctly...
People often mention that Apple are the BMW of the computer/music business, and they seem (as this rumour would suggest) to be going down the same route, releasing cheaper, lower luxury items - that make the brand more common and accessible - while the companies largely rely on exclusivity to justify their higher prices and brand image.
Do any of you guys think that reducing the cost of buying into the brand will reduce the desirability of the brand at the same time, or is this part of Apples big plan to change its image from a company that sells aspirational products to one that sells day to day products, and increase sales as a result?
Do any of you guys think that reducing the cost of buying into the brand will reduce the desirability of the brand at the same time, or is this part of Apples big plan to change its image from a company that sells aspirational products to one that sells day to day products, and increase sales as a result?
applekid said:You're on to something... If Apple made something like that...
Add a hold switch, a dock/cable port, headphone jack, and maybe even a new remote port.
But would the screen have to be an actual click wheel as well? That'd be interesting to see. You should also make it display the song info like the regular iPod.
Draw me some more mock ups. They're looking good.
Why can't the white space around the screen be the touchwheel?
-Matt
cheekyspanky said:
Seems to me they want to introduce a product that people will buy. Right now everyone knows what an ipod is (in fact, you could argue that it's become a generic name, like Kleenex means tissues or Xerox means copies), but not everyone can afford one.
A flash-based ipod will allow more people to buy one that want one. It didn't make sense 2 years ago because 64 or 128 megs would only get you 15 to 40 songs (depending on song lengths and quality), but since flash memory, like everything else, decreases in price over time, now you can make an ipod with 256 MB to 1 GB and still keep it under $200 and still make a profit.
It just makes sense to provide a product for which there's already demand. Will it help the Apple brand in the long term? Who knows, but I can't see how it would hurt.
iPod Micro ver B
OK Kids... one more variation of the iPod Micro.
This time the 'click wheel' becomes a 'click slider' - works similar to click wheel, you can click on the buttons or slide left to right to navigate. Holding down the "menu/play/pause" button for a second or two goes to the menu, but just doing a quick click activates "play/pause". A less radical design then my 'round' iPod mockup.
OK Kids... one more variation of the iPod Micro.
This time the 'click wheel' becomes a 'click slider' - works similar to click wheel, you can click on the buttons or slide left to right to navigate. Holding down the "menu/play/pause" button for a second or two goes to the menu, but just doing a quick click activates "play/pause". A less radical design then my 'round' iPod mockup.
I'm so ready to see one hit the market early next year... only hope that Apple does the right thing and let's the consumer bump up the storage capacity (unlikely though...)
Uh, one thing that you are not taking into consideration is the weight of the mini iPod. While it is small and light compared to other HD based MP3 players, it is very heavy for a flash unit.strikey said:
So I don't believe that Apple will just use the same shell and put flash memory in it. Nope. Not SJ. He will have his team come up with something else that is smaller, lighter and has a great interface to it.
Sushi
Why do you think that Apple will have a removable memory model?strikey said:
I doubt they will. It is not their style. They prefer the more sturdy enclosure type without removable battery or memory slot.
So the round concept is very much a possibility.
I was down in Akihabara today. Almost bought a 1GB Flash Memory player for 20,800 yen. I was so tempted. If it wasn't for this rumor board and the possibility of an Apple flash memory based player, it would have been mine today.
With 1GB I can store 512 minutes or 8.53 hours of music. And I encode at 2MB per minute (256Kbps, TS, 44,100). At half that rate, it would store over 17 hours of music. That's a significant amount!
Sushi
sushi said:
No, I didnt say that. Everyone else is hoping its removable. I agreee with you, and besides there is no future sales or upgrade path if you have a removable card. SJobs isnt that stupid.
Just imagine buying a 1gb removable flash card iPod today and then in 2-3 years time you buy a 8gb card for $50, or in 10 years a 100gb card for $25, how does Apple make a buck out of that.
Mental telepathy with an Appleseed
strikey said:
Maybe they'll pull a Sony and come out with their own, proprietary flash card format, a la the Memory Stick.
hmm...
4G iPod 20GB
4G iPod 40GB
4G iPod Photo 40GB
4G iPod Photo 60GB
4G iPod U2 20GB
iPod Mini 4GB Blue
iPod Mini 4GB Green
iPod Mini 4GB Gold
iPod Mini 4GB Pink
iPod Mini 4GB Silver
...and now...
iPod Flash 256MB
iPod Flash 1GB
...what?
It's starting to be really confusing which one to buy? Buy them all? I sold my 3G iPod 40 when the new 4Gs came out, (miss it) but gonna wait for early next year before I buy another one. But hell which one am I gonna choose? =]
4G iPod 20GB
4G iPod 40GB
4G iPod Photo 40GB
4G iPod Photo 60GB
4G iPod U2 20GB
iPod Mini 4GB Blue
iPod Mini 4GB Green
iPod Mini 4GB Gold
iPod Mini 4GB Pink
iPod Mini 4GB Silver
...and now...
iPod Flash 256MB
iPod Flash 1GB
...what?
It's starting to be really confusing which one to buy? Buy them all?
I sold my 3G iPod 40 when the new 4Gs came out, (miss it) but gonna wait for early next year before I buy another one. But hell which one am I gonna choose? =]
ipod pricing
We all know that with ipods we are all paying a premium price. At the moment there is no great incentive for apple to reduce prices because at the moment as soon as theyre made theyre sold. If the forecasters are right there is going to be another shortage this festive season where worldwide demand is going to outstrip supply. Presumerably sometime next year the manufacturers of the these 1" and 1.8" hard drives are going to ramp up enough to provide enough. At the moment Apple gets the drives far cheaper than any other mp3 player manufacturer just because of its volume of sales. As these other manufacturers increase their sales volumes they will start to get discounts (on top of the fact that the drives will get cheaper as the hard disk makers ramp up their volumes). Thus sometime next year there will be some pressure on apple to reduce prices on the ipod.
The price of the flash ipods will provide an initial respite from this by providing an ipod at 1 or 2 or possibly more price points below the ipod mini. Apple will be relying on having a product that will not only be beautifully designed, have the ipod cachet, but will also have the legendary integration with itunes and ease of use to compete with other flash players that will be significantly cheaper which we will start to see in supermarkets etc.
To give it the ease of use of use we expect with apple products it will need a screen of a certain size. so we can assume that a fair bit of one side is going to be taken up by the screen. It will be interesting to see how they then get the equivalent of the click wheel on there - I'm sure we'll find out in January
We all know that with ipods we are all paying a premium price. At the moment there is no great incentive for apple to reduce prices because at the moment as soon as theyre made theyre sold. If the forecasters are right there is going to be another shortage this festive season where worldwide demand is going to outstrip supply. Presumerably sometime next year the manufacturers of the these 1" and 1.8" hard drives are going to ramp up enough to provide enough. At the moment Apple gets the drives far cheaper than any other mp3 player manufacturer just because of its volume of sales. As these other manufacturers increase their sales volumes they will start to get discounts (on top of the fact that the drives will get cheaper as the hard disk makers ramp up their volumes). Thus sometime next year there will be some pressure on apple to reduce prices on the ipod.
The price of the flash ipods will provide an initial respite from this by providing an ipod at 1 or 2 or possibly more price points below the ipod mini. Apple will be relying on having a product that will not only be beautifully designed, have the ipod cachet, but will also have the legendary integration with itunes and ease of use to compete with other flash players that will be significantly cheaper which we will start to see in supermarkets etc.
To give it the ease of use of use we expect with apple products it will need a screen of a certain size. so we can assume that a fair bit of one side is going to be taken up by the screen. It will be interesting to see how they then get the equivalent of the click wheel on there - I'm sure we'll find out in January
iPod mini Flash: 2 GB and 4 GB
iPod: 20 GB and 40 GB
iPod Photo: 40 GB and 60 GB
iPod SE: 20 GB
Apple cannot afford making their lineup confusing. If there is going to be flash, then it would be the mini that's going flash with 2 and 4 GB versions. Don't expect cheap 256 MB or 1 GB versions, because people will start to get confused: Shall I go for a 256 MB, 1 GB, maybe 2 GB, or go for 4 GB, maybe I should go 20 GB? It won't work. And when people buy a 256 MB model or 1 GB model and then find out that they needed more, this means that there will be lots of frustrated people. Apple likes to keep it simple these days, unlike in the past when I couldn't decide which Performa I should actually buy.
If Apple is going Flash in the future, I predict it will be the mini and it will go 2 GB for $199 and 4 GB $249. Can Apple get flash at extremely low prices? That's the main question. That's what I doubt.
iPod: 20 GB and 40 GB
iPod Photo: 40 GB and 60 GB
iPod SE: 20 GB
Apple cannot afford making their lineup confusing. If there is going to be flash, then it would be the mini that's going flash with 2 and 4 GB versions. Don't expect cheap 256 MB or 1 GB versions, because people will start to get confused: Shall I go for a 256 MB, 1 GB, maybe 2 GB, or go for 4 GB, maybe I should go 20 GB? It won't work. And when people buy a 256 MB model or 1 GB model and then find out that they needed more, this means that there will be lots of frustrated people. Apple likes to keep it simple these days, unlike in the past when I couldn't decide which Performa I should actually buy.
If Apple is going Flash in the future, I predict it will be the mini and it will go 2 GB for $199 and 4 GB $249. Can Apple get flash at extremely low prices? That's the main question. That's what I doubt.
Hi The Man
You make some good points about confusing line ups and the time of the performa, but i would say there are also some differences between this and then. For one when the performa was around although apple had a larger share than now it was still to some extent a niche market in that it was aiming for people who were technologically literate and saw a need for a computer where as music players in general are mass market ie consumerism and thus has a fair number of differenciated markets. Also the numbers we are talking about are of a different order with apple cpus we are talking a few million a year with ipods we could be talking in tens of millions soon. There would also be quite a difference between a mini and a flash ipod - eg size, weight, price? battery life etc. Of course the other major difference is the size of memory. Yet its important to remember that in this day of 60GB ipods that a great many people who are not as ipod/cpu literate are still used to a cd with ten tracks so if a 512MB flash ipod can hold 100/200 songs (assuming this new acc+ or whatever its called allows people to reduce bit rate) for many people this will appear to be enough - especially as filling up a new selection of songs will take such a short time because of its size.
I for one was wrong when i was not initially impressed by the ipod mini's price and storage size. The Gb per £ (or $) was so poor I didnt see the wood for the trees and recognise it was a product that fitted an emerging market. I would guess there would be a vast market for a 512MB and a 1GB market apple flash player which would overlap to some extent with the miniipod market, but apple would prefer to lose miniipod profits to itself than another player. Plus I would guess the mini ipod will go up to 6GB sometime in 2005.
The apple ipod has definitely fitted in with the zeitgeist of our times to such an extent that the zeitgeist seems more to be fitting into the ipod culture than the other way round. I think apple sees such an opportunity to influence if not dominate the whole of the the portable music market it would be a wasted opportunity bot to have a flash player.
Anyway it will be interesting to see who if any of us are right
I don't see a problem with the following linup:strikey said:
iPod Flash -- For those who need a flash based player. This will be very light and compact. Significantly smaller and lighter than the mini.
iPod mini -- For those who want a small but full featured HD based player, but do not need the capacity of a large HD.
iPod -- For those who want a full featured HD based player, and need the capacity of a large HD.
All share the easy integration with iTunes which is what makes this solution superior to others. Within each category new models are introduced as capacity increases.
Simple and not to confusing I would think.
Okay, I am somewhat biased because we have offerings here in Japan that are not available outside of Japan. Today I took a hard look at the RIO SU10. It is a 1GB flash memory based player. Has a built in voice recorder. It would have cost me $195 today.
Here is the URL for the SU10:
http://www.rioaudio.jp/product/su10/
I currently have the RIO SU30 (256MB, voice recorder, FM radio). No longer made. Replaced by the SU35.
Here is the URL for the SU30:
http://www.rioaudio.jp/product/su30/index.html
Both the SU30 and SU10 are much smaller and lighter compared to the mini iPod. Below is a volume and weight comparison between the mini iPod and SU10:
Volume comparison:
- Mini iPod: 58.97 cm3 (9.14 x 5.08 x 1.27)
- SU10: 44.86 cm3 (9.1 x 2.9 x 1.7)
- Difference: SU10 is about 24% smaller
Weight comparison:
- Mini iPod: 103g
- SU10: 31g
- Difference: SU10 is about 70% lighter
These differences are huge!
That is why I strongly believe that we will eventually see a flash based player from Apple. The market is too big for them to ignore. Capacities are up to 1GB (fairly common).
I could see some folks owning all three iPods. One for the car, one for around town and one for working out.
In my case, when my 1st Gen 10GB one dies, I will replace it with the biggest iPod available at the time. The other one that I want is the flash based one for working out and skiing.
I love my SU30. Just hang it from my neck and pop in the earphones and I'm ready to go. I sure cannot do that with either the iPod or mini iPod. And yes, I tried it with the iPod. My neck got sore after a few days of skiing. Granted the mini iPod would be lighter, but still both are rather big and inconvenient to wear around your neck. And no, I am not going to spend $400-500 for a special jacket that holds my iPod and provides controlls in the sleave. No need when I have the SU30 or SU10.
To be fair, I must say that the SU30 is not without issues. I really miss the cool interface of the iPod and integration with iTunes. This is what makes the iPod line so powerful. And I miss the FW data transfer speeds.
Here's hoping that Apple does come up with a nice flash based player.
Sushi
Cheap is good
Pricing is now expected below $200.
Any kind of small electronic device that is put thru the rigors of jogging/bike riding will break, I'd rather abreak a $200 device than a $400 one
Pricing is now expected below $200.
Any kind of small electronic device that is put thru the rigors of jogging/bike riding will break, I'd rather abreak a $200 device than a $400 one
Capacity
Just a thought...
The iPod is advertised as holding 10,000 songs and the iPod mini at 1,000 songs.
With a 2GB flash version, that would be 500 songs. That's a nice round number! Seems to me that this would work out fine.
Even a 1GB version that holds 250 songs would be okay.
Sushi
Just a thought...
The iPod is advertised as holding 10,000 songs and the iPod mini at 1,000 songs.
With a 2GB flash version, that would be 500 songs. That's a nice round number! Seems to me that this would work out fine.
Even a 1GB version that holds 250 songs would be okay.
Sushi
zv470 said:4G iPod 20GB
4G iPod 40GB
4G iPod Photo 40GB
4G iPod Photo 60GB
4G iPod U2 20GB
iPod Mini 4GB Blue
iPod Mini 4GB Green
iPod Mini 4GB Gold
iPod Mini 4GB Pink
iPod Mini 4GB Silver
...and now...
iPod Flash 256MB
iPod Flash 1GB
...what?
It's starting to be really confusing which one to buy? Buy them all?
Come on, it's not really that bad. After all, you've listed the iPod mini 5 times - just because it comes in different colors doesn't mean people are going to be confused which one to buy, I think they're smart enough to realize it's the same device - or do colors confuse you?