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iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

Where's all the whiners now?

Full disclosure: I was one of those who didn't believe Apple would release the mini at just $50 less than a current product -- it didn't seem like there would be enough differentiation to bother with. So Apple surprised me there.

But the vehemence displayed in so many posts following the mini's release was very surprising to me. So many angry, angry people. It was as if everyone thought they had a constitutional right to a mini at $149. "How dare they . . ." I'm guessing most of these folks had bought into their own hype.

Anyway, in this thread, I'm surprised I haven't seen more whiners popping up, rehashing their reasons for why the mini will flop and Apple along with it. Do you suppose they've stepped back, taken a deep breath, and admitted the possibility that Apple might actually have a clue?

No, me neither.
 
I know a few other people have said it, but I want to stress this. Don't knock it till you see it in person and pick it up. During the Keynote I was kind of dissapointed. On the screen is looked big and well stupid. You see it and you instantly assume it's the size of the normal iPod. Take out a business card. That's how big it is. The thing is crazy tiny. Wait till it shows up at an Apple store and go see it. You might just leave the place thinking it's not 1/2 bad. I left wishing they made a 15 gig model. If they did I would trade in my 2G 10gig in a second.
 
One-button mice

Originally posted by Krizoitz
Honestly, some people just don't get it. The whole intent of the one button mouse was so that anyone can learn to use a computer with the minimal amount of work. You could literally watch someone for a couple minutes and you could use the computer just like they did. You didn't have to wonder which mouse button they were pressing for what or anything.
Click to expand...

And it's still true. I could give you several examples of people I know -- perfectly intelligent people who have never been taught and have never figured out what the right button is for. The other day, I saw my brother-in-law surfing, and he got stuck on a site -- it wasn't responding. He was clicking and double-clicking on everything in sight, and then he said to himself, "Oh, maybe this is where I'm supposed to use the other button." He proceeded to right-click and double-right-click on everything in sight.

I had to stifle a laugh, but that's what it can be like in the real world of non-geeks. A lot of computer users will never, ever use that right button.

I'd like to point out that by only providing a basic mouse Apple is allowing the user to choose an alternative that best suits his or her needs. Have you looked at the third party options for mice? You can have them in any shape or size you want these days. I personally use a trackball.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%, but you have to admit it's a marketing problem. The average consumer generally wants a complete solution-in-a-box, and having to buy a 3rd-party mouse for a brand-new system isn't exactly confidence-inspiring. Sure, if you have a competent salesperson right there, they can talk their way out of it, but it's still a problem. I'm not advocating Apple doing anything differently -- I'm just acknowledging the down-side of their strategy.
 
Re: Where's all the whiners now?

Originally posted by splashman
Full disclosure: I was one of those who didn't believe Apple would release the mini at just $50 less than a current product -- it didn't seem like there would be enough differentiation to bother with. So Apple surprised me there.

But the vehemence displayed in so many posts following the mini's release was very surprising to me. So many angry, angry people. It was as if everyone thought they had a constitutional right to a mini at $149. "How dare they . . ." I'm guessing most of these folks had bought into their own hype.

Anyway, in this thread, I'm surprised I haven't seen more whiners popping up, rehashing their reasons for why the mini will flop and Apple along with it. Do you suppose they've stepped back, taken a deep breath, and admitted the possibility that Apple might actually have a clue?

No, me neither.
Click to expand...


One of the most sensible posts I've seen since the release of mini. Good insight Splash!

To all the whiners compain about the price, and speak of market-share and such - now please, with a cool head (or as Splashman said: stepped back, taken a deep breath) - now, look into the mirror and say with me (slowly):

"what do I really know about the market?";
"I surely didn't do any real market research";
"everything I spilled out of my mouth is really based on hearsay (rumors) or assumption or figures and prices used by SJ in his presentation - therefore I tried to disapprove somthing I have no fricken idea in the first place (or at least not until a few days ago that I only saw the finished product with a price-tag)"
"I should just keep my mouth shut instead of making a fool of myself (in a few years time ;) trying to say the product is over-priced when really it's just that I can't afford it (yet), no one is forcing me to buy it. Matter-of-fact no one, but my own envy and lust"
"I'm just very jugemental and a hot-headed person and maybe I could use that energy on something more productive like Folding, or learn a new App or even go outside and enjoy the real world"

feel better now?

>So much pain, so much suffering<
 
That'll actually be way more expensive!

Originally posted by nagromme
One day Apple will be able to offer 1000 songs under $200. Then under $100.
Click to expand...

Well, one song costs you ¢99, so 1000 songs will cost you $990, not anywhere near $200. So $100 is way out of leage.

:D
 
Re: One-button mice

regarding mouse-issue - there is a simple solution - make it possible to order without mouse...(BTO)

Originally posted by splashman

I agree with you 100%, but you have to admit it's a marketing problem. The average consumer generally wants a complete solution-in-a-box, and having to buy a 3rd-party mouse for a brand-new system isn't exactly confidence-inspiring. Sure, if you have a competent salesperson right there, they can talk their way out of it, but it's still a problem. I'm not advocating Apple doing anything differently -- I'm just acknowledging the down-side of their strategy.
Click to expand...
 
Perfect Price Point

I still must make it clear that it could have been cheaper. I would have liked $10-$20. Yes, I think Apple should have sold it for that. Actually, it would have been better for the iPod Minis to be packaged and given away in boxes of cereal. Why didn't they do that? Sometimes I really wonder what the folks in Cupertino are smoking. ;)
 
The mini is cool, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I think it's a bit overpriced. Apple really should've included the dock and the arm-band with it at least. When you figure you add those two things to your shopping cart in addition to the mini, you ARE paying about what you'd pay for a 15gb iPod...that's something to think about before making your purchase.
 
One button mouse...

Ok... if an extra button is that difficult to learn.. boy ow boy.. I don't know. a keyboard has a lot of buttons! Does that scare people? Or should we go with a windows keyboard containing 3 buttons 'ctrl-alt-delete' ??

My point is that Apple will not sell less Mac's if they ship it with a 3 button mouse. Nor will anyone complain 'OH NO, that's too difficult!' Now! There are people that DO complain because they have to throw the single button mouse on the shelve and buy another one before they can work with some Apps!

Honestly.. would a person go to wintel because Apple ships Mac's with a multibutton mouse? Come-on...
 
Re: One button mouse...

as I said earlier - make it possible to buy without mouse/keyboard. BTO.

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
Ok... if an extra button is that difficult to learn.. boy ow boy.. I don't know. a keyboard has a lot of buttons! Does that scare people? Or should we go with a windows keyboard containing 3 buttons 'ctrl-alt-delete' ??

My point is that Apple will not sell less Mac's if they ship it with a 3 button mouse. Nor will anyone complain 'OH NO, that's too difficult!' Now! There are people that DO complain because they have to throw the single button mouse on the shelve and buy another one before they can work with some Apps!

Honestly.. would a person go to wintel because Apple ships Mac's with a multibutton mouse? Come-on...
Click to expand...
 
Agree on that! BTO is a better Option.. however.. Every computer ships with a mouse.. They have to handle that with good marketing.. something like.. it comes with a mouse, but if you insist not wanting a mouse, you get a 50 bucks discount. not the other way around! Then people would be like: "gees... don't buy a mac! it doesn't even come with a mouse! you have to buy that seperate!" and that's not great marketing..
 
Re: One button mouse...

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
Honestly.. would a person go to wintel because Apple ships Mac's with a multibutton mouse? Come-on...
Click to expand...

Huh? did you even think before you tried to ask a rhetorical question? I think you meant:

"would a person go to wintel because Apple ships Mac's with a Singlebutton mouse?"

See how that one actually made sense and hence proved your whole argument were wrong?
 
4G iPods

Hey, am I the only one who wants to see the new mini dial on the bigger iPods?
The 4G white iPods will probably be a bit smaller losing the 4 separate buttons above the dial. What about 20 GB, 40 GB and 60 GB. That's my wish. Anyone else?
 
Re: One button mouse...

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
Ok... if an extra button is that difficult to learn.. boy ow boy.. I don't know. a keyboard has a lot of buttons! Does that scare people? Or should we go with a windows keyboard containing 3 buttons 'ctrl-alt-delete' ??

My point is that Apple will not sell less Mac's if they ship it with a 3 button mouse. Nor will anyone complain 'OH NO, that's too difficult!' Now! There are people that DO complain because they have to throw the single button mouse on the shelve and buy another one before they can work with some Apps!

Honestly.. would a person go to wintel because Apple ships Mac's with a multibutton mouse? Come-on...
Click to expand...

Sorry, dude -- you're one more geek who doesn't get it. Try a momentary venture out of your silicon cocoon and take a look at how non-geeks actually use a computer.

You're right that Apple won't sell less Macs if they ship a 3-button mouse. But they recognize that ease-of-use is one of their biggest draws, and single-button mice have been shown, in study after study, to be less confusing than multi-button mice for new and novice computer users.

Apple rightly figures they can't make everyone happy, no matter what their choice. Most of the geeks I know (including me) would replace the Apple mouse with their favorite 3rd-party mouse no matter what, so your complaint about having to throw away the Apple mouse doesn't hold much water.

Apple is protecting their ease-of-use advantage without having much negative impact on the geek population. Sounds reasonable to me.
 
Apples and oranges

Originally posted by MattG
The mini is cool, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I think it's a bit overpriced. Apple really should've included the dock and the arm-band with it at least. When you figure you add those two things to your shopping cart in addition to the mini, you ARE paying about what you'd pay for a 15gb iPod...that's something to think about before making your purchase.
Click to expand...

Here's something to think about next time you're at McDonalds: If you super-size your Big Mac value-meal, you'll pay about the same as the regular-size Crispy Chicken value-meal. But if you go for the Crispy Chicken, you won't get the quart-size soda and two pounds of fries.

Translation for the analogy-impaired:
For about $300 you can either get a mini with dock and arm-band, or a 15gig with no dock and no possibility of an arm-band. It's your choice, but it's an apples-and-oranges choice, not a "duh" choice as you implied.
 
Re: Where's all the whiners now?

Originally posted by splashman
Full disclosure: I was one of those who didn't believe Apple would release the mini at just $50 less than a current product -- it didn't seem like there would be enough differentiation to bother with. So Apple surprised me there.

But the vehemence displayed in so many posts following the mini's release was very surprising to me. So many angry, angry people. It was as if everyone thought they had a constitutional right to a mini at $149. "How dare they . . ." I'm guessing most of these folks had bought into their own hype.

Anyway, in this thread, I'm surprised I haven't seen more whiners popping up, rehashing their reasons for why the mini will flop and Apple along with it. Do you suppose they've stepped back, taken a deep breath, and admitted the possibility that Apple might actually have a clue?

No, me neither.
Click to expand...

Splashman, I don't know what you have been reading but I do not recognize the Mac community reaction in your description.

All I saw was a lot of people who were disappointed at the pricing of the iPod minis because they felt it was priced too high. I was one of those people and still am. I don't think many people within that group were predicting that the iPod mini would fail however, that is your spin on events and I think it is wrong. What I did see expressed was the belief - and yes anger at times - that Apple may have missed an opportunity to totally clean up with a lower, sub $150 or $200 priced product.

The overall message coming out of the various boards was that for $50 more it was more practical to buy the 15 gig.

Apple have now acknowledged that the pricing may be out and that they may reduce it in future.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=7627

I don't understand the point of this MacRumors thread though. It starts of saying that that "A week after the introduction of the iPod Mini's, the initial furor appears to be dying down." and goes on to say "Regardless, time will tell if Apple has further success with the iPod Mini. Readers are reminded that negative initial reactions are common. Some reader comments from the initial release ..."

Which to me at least gave the impression that there are legions of doubters or "whiners" as some have put it, who say the iPod mini will fail. Where are they? I have not seen any. The original MacRumors blurb makes no reference to any. All people have expressed here and elsewhere over the past week is their dismay at the pricing, and the perhaps missed opportunities it entails.
 
Re: Re: Jobs biggest mistake (and still)

Originally posted by Krizoitz
Honestly, some people just don't get it. The whole intent of the one button mouse was so that anyone can learn to use a computer with the minimal amount of work. You could literally watch someone for a couple minutes and you could use the computer just like they did. You didn't have to wonder which mouse button they were pressing for what or anything.

Ok, so people know all about mice now, so give us the new mouse you say. What kind? Two button? Three? Scroll wheel?

First I'd like to point out that by only providing a basic mouse Apple is allowing the user to choose an alternative that best suits his or her needs. Have you looked at the third party options for mice? You can have them in any shape or size you want these days. I personally use a trackball.

By providing a basic mouse Apple allows the computer to be used out of the box. But whats to stop you from buying the exact one you want. Why should Apple waste money on new mouse when there are allready great ones out there. Its the same reason they aren't doing a PDA because the market is full, why bother. Plus it gives third parties a great opportunity to make revenue and best of all it gives us CHOICE. Choice is a good thing right?

So choose to let go of the one button mouse attack and enjoy a nice Kensington, Logitech, etc super mouse!
Click to expand...

Yes, choice is good. Give buyers a choice of what mouse they buy with their system; at least on the higher end ones like iMac and PM. No reason Apple couldn't manufacture 2 or 3 choices and make some extra margin. Sucks to pay for a mouse (they sell them for $49 retail) that many of their users will not use.

Apple used to sell the KB separately and you chose the regularl one or the extended one. I see no reason Apple couldn't go back to doing this with a mouse.
 
des

I've seen many people on these forums and elsewhere questioning the price and asking/wondering how it could possibly succeed at that price.

Arn was not doing any "I told you so's" by starting this thread. He was merely showing that many people had the same issue with the original iPod yet things worked out just fine for it.

And contrary to what you said, many of those posts back then had issues besides the price. For example, several questioned why Apple was entering a new market and not sticking to the computer market.

Arn did the right thing. We can all learn from that thread that we, despite what we think we know, probably have little idea at all, compared to Apple.
 
Re: Re: Where's all the whiners now?

Originally posted by desdomg
Splashman, I don't know what you have been reading but I do not recognize the Mac community reaction in your description.

All I saw was a lot of people who were disappointed at the pricing of the iPod minis because they felt it was priced too high. I was one of those people and still am. I don't think many people within that group were predicting that the iPod mini would fail however, that is your spin on events and I think it is wrong. What I did see expressed was the belief - and yes anger at times - that Apple may have missed an opportunity to totally clean up with a lower, sub $150 or $200 priced product.

The overall message coming out of the various boards was that for $50 more it was more practical to buy the 15 gig.
Click to expand...

Maybe we're not talking about the same thread. I'm talking about this one:
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53929&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

It contains approx. 675 posts (is that a record?), most of which were not congratulatory notes to Apple. Yes, I exaggerated for effect by saying they were predicting Apple's doom, but the overall tone is amazingly negative, as if Apple is run by idiots who are deliberately making our lives miserable.

For your reading pleasure, here's a few snippets:

--I think it's a dead-in-the water product, but it will cause Rio 4gb shoppers to think twice and then upgrade to a 15gb iPod.

--Who in their right mind see's value in 50.00 less for almost 75 percent less the capacity of the next model Ipod. 75 percent less capacity and it's only 50.00 cheaper.

--What the Heck is Apple Thinking??? I am shocked beyond belief that Apple has so greedily priced a 4GB iPod at $249.

--HUGE MISTAKE FOR APPLE AFTER THEY WERE GOING SO STRONG WITH THE IPOD!!!!

--Wow, wow, wow. Profoundly ignorant move. There isn't a shred of logic behind that pricing. What a flop. My only hope is that Steve is trying to milk high end customers and that in a month, citing the "success" of the iPod mini, they will lower prices or introduce a new model. If not, then Apple made its first major screwup in the music arena. Wow, amazingly poor idea to price it like that. I'd like to see what it does to the share price. Lord.

--As others have stated, nobody in their right mind would buy one of these at this price point. They really screwed up on this one.

--somebody in marketing at Apple headquarters is getting fired right now, as we speak.

--it looks like they are killing thier iPod-mini market by pricing it only $50 away from the real thing. with 11 gigs more.

--I have never seen anything like this; Everyone is obviously disappointed. Apple really messed up with the 249.00 mini-pod. C'mon people; this is a monumental failure!!!!

--why do some many people give a sh*t about apple making money, they sure as hell dont seem to care about u saving any.

--very dissappointing. i feel like they dropped the ball big time. hopefully it will bomb and they will reposition the price.

--Steve doesnt wanna sell the mini iPods. He pisses people off, but spreads the 50 off rationale. He is trying to sell more 15 gig normal iPods.

--i must echo the thoughts of everyone else in saying that $249 is totally absurd. what in the world is apple thinking? i couldn't believe my eyes when i saw it. hopefully that will be corrected by the next macworld, and the will put out the pb g5 to make up for the this sillyness

--When Steve said the price you could have heard a pin drop, people there were like all excited, anticipating a REALISTIC price like $149 or $199 maybe high end, but NOOOO!!! Typical Apple, more proof Jobs doesn't get it, most consumers don't have $249 lying around, then again, if you're given lear jets money isn't a concept. And yeah some people blah blah profit margin blah, believe me, they were already making as much as 50% margin/mark up on the previous iPods, these things are probably that or more, this price is joke. HEAR ME APPLE, YOUR PRICE FOR THIS IS A JOKE!!! $199 would have been a bit much, good though, good enough. $249... phaw!

--$249 - For a lousy 4GB?! Apple is making a big mistake and this will flop with the intended market.
Click to expand...


And all of that is on the first few pages. It goes on and on and on . . . Maybe it's just me, but these posts seem a bit more harsh than "Apple may have missed an opportunity".


Apple have now acknowledged that the pricing may be out and that they may reduce it in future.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=7627
Click to expand...

Nice try. You might have caught a clue from the fact that this article was from MacWorld UK. It addresses only the UK price, which is somewhat higher than the current exchange rate would justify. It doesn't address US pricing at all.
 
Re: One button mouse... I HAVE THE PERFECT IDEA

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
Ok... if an extra button is that difficult to learn.. boy ow boy.. I don't know. a keyboard has a lot of buttons! Does that scare people? Or should we go with a windows keyboard containing 3 buttons 'ctrl-alt-delete' ??

My point is that Apple will not sell less Mac's if they ship it with a 3 button mouse. Nor will anyone complain 'OH NO, that's too difficult!' Now! There are people that DO complain because they have to throw the single button mouse on the shelve and buy another one before they can work with some Apps!

Honestly.. would a person go to wintel because Apple ships Mac's with a multibutton mouse? Come-on...
Click to expand...

Why not have Apple start selling three-button mouses ONLY! Then everyone that wants the classic mouse can purchase it from a 3rd party vendor; end of Problem....!
 
Splash - well said

Incredibly, all those quotes were mirrored in the thread re the original iPod. The original was gunna struggle for all the same reasons. Deja vu! People just like to put their foot in their mouth!

I think the mini will be a winner for all the reasons others think it won't.
 
Originally posted by desdomg
I think MacRumors are off base on this one. The "initial negative reaction" was actually ALL about the price and nothing to do with the feature set or size - which everyone was very happy with.
Click to expand...

I think arn's point is that macrumors readers aren't very good at judging the future success of apple products. And from the original ipod thread, it seems that way.
 
Re: Price

Originally posted by dekator
Guys, you don't know how lucky you are -pricewise- in the USofA. Yeah, $200 would've been even cooler but look at European prices: The iPod mini is rumoured at €299 (at least one web store advertises it at €289).
Click to expand...

After this whole "wut it's $249 not $200? apple sUx0rs" mess, you figure people would learn their lesson about believing rumored price points...
 
Re: Re: Where's all the whiners now?

Originally posted by desdomg
What I did see expressed was the belief - and yes anger at times - that Apple may have missed an opportunity to totally clean up with a lower, sub $150 or $200 priced product.
Click to expand...

You know, I bet if Apple sells them at only $100, it would clean up even more.. or better yet, give them out for FREE! Or BETTER yet, bundle $100 Apple Store Gift Certificates with those free iPod Minis... I bet they'll be flying off the shelves! Apple will dominate the market for sure!!!

Sometimes I wonder if you guys think Apple picks these iPod Mini's off trees and sell them for $249 of pure profit. There's no evidence Apple is pricing it too high, since their direct competitor, the 4GB Rio Nitrus, is selling at the exact same price.

Or maybe you're one of those that still believe:
1) sell at a loss
2) gain mindshare/marketshare
3) ????
4) profit!

btw desdomg, the dotcom companies called, and they want their business model back!
 
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