But, Ukraine was… Russia has been buying a lot of its drones from Iran.
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Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets
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turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Maybe you’re too young to understand that world. Here’s a starter:
The son also rises: Mojtaba Khamenei's reported European empire
Investigations have traced a reported €400m European property empire — including luxury hotels in Frankfurt — to associates of Mojtaba Khamenei, the newly elected Ayatollah.www.euronews.com
During the Cold War the Kremlin leadership was also laundering money out of the Soviet Union and buying up hotels and expensive property in the West.
No, definitely not too young.
My point is that Trump’s entire cadre is doing exactly what you’re describing.
Gas prices were higher at times during Biden's term but the media and liberals were silent about it.
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roklanhavok
macrumors regular
Iran is great at generating support for our actions against them.
Is that why The US is such a mess? Or aren’t you referring to The Bible?
Slightly confused atheist here 😂
You do realize that was Russia who started the war then and not Biden right? Unlike now.
Your whataboutism only works when it has any basis to it. Don’t go comparing Apples to Goats.
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That was due to Russia. This was due to direct actions of an idiot and his abusive alcoholic sidekick falling for Israel’s lies.
And not having a plan at all didn’t help either.
Typical liberal debate strategy. Anything positive economic wise, we did that. Anything negative, it was someone else's fault. Always hilarious when they take credit if the market goes up 3 years into the next president's term if he's a republican. But if its down, they'll blame the previous republican president 3 years into their own term.
That Russian war is still going yet President Trump got the gas prices down prior to this Iran war. But you won't explain that one.
turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
If one is name calling it’s a losing debate strategy.
They won't. Or they'll make up another excuse anyway.
I agree, I said this recently here so people should stop resorting to that. Unless you're implying calling a person "liberal" is name calling. Which I don't even know how to comprehend that one.
Dr McKay
macrumors 601
one more
macrumors 603
They were at the beginning, but now the Russians are even having their own schoolchildren building drones for them. Ukraine is actually in a much more difficult position now, since the much needed Patriot missiles are now being diverted to the Middle East, leaving Ukraine more vulnerable. With the Russian sanctions temporary on hold, it is actually Russia benefiting the most from the current state of affairs.
DocMultimedia
macrumors 68030
Ummm... Remember we had a treaty with them in place that a silly baby ripped up. And what is the long term plan? Get the entire world to hate America? It worked.
Funny you mention that. The idiot-in-chief says the same thing. Blame Obama at the end of his first term. And now Biden a year into his second term when he could supposedly fix things on his first day with the stroke of a pen.
You need to take a deep dive into history. All the worst economies were under Republican presidents.
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All he had to do was keep his tiny thumbs to himself and you’d still be able to brag about those “lower gas prices”.
Not saying or doing something stupid is not his MO.
That’s why he apparently surrounds himself with losers to make him feel good. And yet, his cabinet can’t help sing praises and make fake awards. He’s more immature than a toddler.
Both sides are dumb in this war. The side that is less dumb will win.
Iran hardliners are attacking the global oil economy and every gulf state (even a Caucas one) driving them closer to war and the US Israel, thinking it will help Iran. Attempts to skirt blame of closing the straight on America/Israel when Iran decides who it wants to attack or not (even attacked a Thai cargo ship…so much for collective punishment). They could lose the war for Iran by pushing the entire world against Iran.
Trump and Israel co follies are numerous. Failure to understand war. Think killing an 86 year old man is a the ultimate coup d’etate. Israel especially doesn’t get this and is a one trick pony. War isn’t Chess where you win when you kill the king. Failure to go after Iran’s industrial base (when quantity is their strength). Failure to ramp of production before the war- especially their weakness of limited supply of high-tech weapons that take months to build and transport vs the quantity of drones Iran produces (with very little for logistics since it’s in the country). War is not about high tech weaponry but the quantity and industrial base. Failure to really invest in a low cost mass production of drones and building out the industrial base. Interceptors and being depleted. And while Iran has worse stuff, they have to stomach it and drain the enemies’ supply. The high cost/slow to produce weapons is a problem for attrition and will flip the war. Failure to read the red lights when stockpiles started to run low in the 12 day war last year. Failure to invest and support Iranian monarchists/Persian nationalists within the country, and encourage them rise up with zero weapons and get slaughtered without any building of underground resistance (smuggling weapons espionage fighting). Israel really failed in this regard. Expecting, after 30,000 people were massacred, for them to overthrow the government. Failure to understand how economics is an extension of the State and trade routes can become weaponized (Red Sea and Houthis causing global shipping problems). Now they have to go in ground force- there’s no other way of regime change.
The biggest issue I care about is Trump’s sabotaging of transitioning to EV and nuclear (particularly SMRs), even solar and wind (that I support less) which besides climate change (that conservatives don’t believe in), completely removes us from global oil market and makes situations like this impossible or negligible. Oil autarky simply doesn’t end stop oil inflation due to being tied to global markets in crises.
Liberals aren’t that much better. Gavin Newsom is whining about Trump but failing to take initiative and push for EV rebates (I believe in 1:1 car exchange program that recycles gas cars back into raw material for EV makers but centrists are gonna centrists) to try to encourage people to switch from gas cars- blunting this whole oil crisis (especially for lower income people). Every crisis is a missed opportunity. Democrats, as usual, are not stepping up to counter this oil crisis and take leadership. Whining about the orange man is easier and requires no effort for blue MAGA types.
Ukraine ironically has developed a deck of cards (that Trump humiliated Zelensky about) by learning how to develop cheap drone interceptors, that can be deployed and selling them to gulf states. Lol.
Pro-tip: If you are financially privileged to get an electric car, rid of a gas stove, and any form of gasoline product, I suggest you consider it. It won’t prevent the inflation but mitigate it for you.
Iran hardliners are attacking the global oil economy and every gulf state (even a Caucas one) driving them closer to war and the US Israel, thinking it will help Iran. Attempts to skirt blame of closing the straight on America/Israel when Iran decides who it wants to attack or not (even attacked a Thai cargo ship…so much for collective punishment). They could lose the war for Iran by pushing the entire world against Iran.
Trump and Israel co follies are numerous. Failure to understand war. Think killing an 86 year old man is a the ultimate coup d’etate. Israel especially doesn’t get this and is a one trick pony. War isn’t Chess where you win when you kill the king. Failure to go after Iran’s industrial base (when quantity is their strength). Failure to ramp of production before the war- especially their weakness of limited supply of high-tech weapons that take months to build and transport vs the quantity of drones Iran produces (with very little for logistics since it’s in the country). War is not about high tech weaponry but the quantity and industrial base. Failure to really invest in a low cost mass production of drones and building out the industrial base. Interceptors and being depleted. And while Iran has worse stuff, they have to stomach it and drain the enemies’ supply. The high cost/slow to produce weapons is a problem for attrition and will flip the war. Failure to read the red lights when stockpiles started to run low in the 12 day war last year. Failure to invest and support Iranian monarchists/Persian nationalists within the country, and encourage them rise up with zero weapons and get slaughtered without any building of underground resistance (smuggling weapons espionage fighting). Israel really failed in this regard. Expecting, after 30,000 people were massacred, for them to overthrow the government. Failure to understand how economics is an extension of the State and trade routes can become weaponized (Red Sea and Houthis causing global shipping problems). Now they have to go in ground force- there’s no other way of regime change.
The biggest issue I care about is Trump’s sabotaging of transitioning to EV and nuclear (particularly SMRs), even solar and wind (that I support less) which besides climate change (that conservatives don’t believe in), completely removes us from global oil market and makes situations like this impossible or negligible. Oil autarky simply doesn’t end stop oil inflation due to being tied to global markets in crises.
Liberals aren’t that much better. Gavin Newsom is whining about Trump but failing to take initiative and push for EV rebates (I believe in 1:1 car exchange program that recycles gas cars back into raw material for EV makers but centrists are gonna centrists) to try to encourage people to switch from gas cars- blunting this whole oil crisis (especially for lower income people). Every crisis is a missed opportunity. Democrats, as usual, are not stepping up to counter this oil crisis and take leadership. Whining about the orange man is easier and requires no effort for blue MAGA types.
Ukraine ironically has developed a deck of cards (that Trump humiliated Zelensky about) by learning how to develop cheap drone interceptors, that can be deployed and selling them to gulf states. Lol.
Pro-tip: If you are financially privileged to get an electric car, rid of a gas stove, and any form of gasoline product, I suggest you consider it. It won’t prevent the inflation but mitigate it for you.
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There was no threat until Israel got us into this war. And if the idiots in the gov had any brains, they would’ve had a better plan going in even for this needless war.
That’s what happens when it’s all brawn and zero brains. Did you really think Iran would just bend over and hand over the keys to the country? Most of the world didn’t.
EDIT: Apparently, I needed to clarify that by “ no threat,” I meant no imminent threat. It has not been evident enough from my post for some.
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turbineseaplane
macrumors Penryn
Did anything unprecedented happen in 2020 that screwed things up for few years?
Yes let’s get mad at our own leadership rather than the regime that is targeting ships belonging to various non involved third party countries, causing fuel prices to surge. And let’s post this sentiment on a story about a regime threatening corporations rather than military targets. Let’s not focus our anger at pure unhidden, direct in your face terrorism.
Next thing you are going to tell us is that it’s the women’s fault in Iran for getting assaulted because they didn’t wear their face cover. Same exact logic.
I am liberal, but this hijacking of the democratic party by people who are constantly on the side of the worst human rights violating dictators, has got to go. It’s super bizarre to see Americans calling themselves liberals, marching on the streets against real liberals from other countries who are fighting for the families and friends back home to have a chance at freedom. You know darn well something super bizarre is going on and folks are being manipulated, when a literal Nobel Peace Prize winning liberal is battling against American liberals with factory printed signs.
God forbid gas prices are temporarily the same price as they were 4 years ago. God forbid we assist real liberals in Iran who are being slaughtered by the 10s of thousands, simply for speaking up. The real liberals have their lives on the line, they are fighting real oppression. They took to the streets because their regime had them starving with no food and limited water. They would pray to live in existence where their biggest fear was a $1 rise in the price of gasoline for a few months.
There is no gain from this, Iran now has a young, more angry leader, a military that's stronger and more deadly to its own people, lots of destruction, a potential fee paid to Iran to ship anything through Hormuz, and a still viable nuclear weapons program. Their hatred for America is going to be even stronger, understandably, and they aren't just going to blame Trump, so any hope at terrorism ebbing in the region is likely gone for a while. And Iran has shown that the US military isn't ready for modern, drone based warfare...there's a reason why the USS Lincoln moved 1000km away from Iran instead of parking on its doorstep, and it's likely because the defenses couldn't stand up to a drone swarm. And it's a huge country, there's no way a few thousand American troops on the ground can stand up to the Iranian people, much less invade and take over the nation...we've seen already how bad it goes when most of the people are happy to have us there but a small fraction want us gone (Iraq, Afghanistan), no one will want us in Iran.
And, what gain? If you wanted an Iranian nuclear program on hold, the Strait of Hormuz open, and the nation moderating and pulling back from supporting terrorism while trying to regain status around the world, then the 2015 treaty Obama put together was absolutely perfect. And Iran was following it, eager to take the hand offered and stop being a pariah nation. A decade of that status just might have turned them into a moderate nation, give that the people there don't want their government anymore and would overthrow it if they could....effective international pressure just might have pushed them to change.
There was zero reason to attack Iran, and the consequences have been severe already, though major US media is not reporting much on how the US military is scrambling to try to keep up. It's hard to look at what's happening and not think the US is the bad guy here, and that's extremely sad to say...we have gone from the leaders of the free world and champions of democracy to bombing weak nations and overthrowing their governments on a whim. It's a chapter of US history that is going to be seen as shameful in the future, there's no other way to look at it...what's happening goes against our basic principles as a nation. Other nations have dictators and strongmen that cause havoc, including Iran, but now we're just like them, at least until we can get rid of Trump and go back to what we should be.
You have liberals in this very thread defending Iran, and yet me calling them allies of Iran was "bullying" somehow? It was an opinion that is quickly turning into a fact.
steve62388
macrumors 68040
Because Russia invaded Ukraine, you know, the guy Trump supports.
This is completely self inflicted.