Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets

[chmania]

Not persuasive. Iran has very clearly been at war with Israel for a long time (only you refuse to acknowledge the obvious -- it's a war conducted by Iran through proxy).

Israel has been in conflict with all the neighbouring countries; war has long been central to its survival strategy. It was Israel, with US support, that attacked Iran — so who, then, are the aggressors in this situation?

With regard to the US, Iran has no right to dictate where or when the US can establish a military base in a sovereign country -- which is always done with full consent (and request) of the host nation. Those bases are therefore legitimate/lawful in every sense. Such bases have underpinned NATO for decades and are, of course, in the national security interests of the United States.

The US is simply a mercenary state: it sells arms, deploys forces, and trades in lives, their own too.

Your view that the US has no national interest beyond its borders is your opinion -- so be it.

Billions of people worldwide share that view. Personally, I would welcome the withdrawal of those bases. In any case, the US lost strategically in this war — who sued for peace: the person at the White House, or someone else?

 

[BaldiMac]

Hundreds of billions of dollars spent killing people and destroying things. Most likely outcome is a slightly different version of the JCPOA that Obama negotiated diplomatically. And reasons for a new generation to hate America.

 

[jimmy_john]

Hundreds of billions of dollars spent killing people and destroying things. Most likely outcome is a slightly different version of the JCPOA that Obama negotiated diplomatically. And reasons for a new generation to hate America.

JCPOA reinstatement is an admirable goal but is also wildly optimistic.

 

[Madhatter32]

Israel has been in conflict with all the neighbouring countries; war has long been central to its survival strategy. It was Israel, with US support, that attacked Iran — so who, then, are the aggressors in this situation?

Again, your claims are just not true as a matter fact as Israel has peace treaties with Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Morocco. I would dare say, but for Iran's proxy wars, Israel would be at peace with all the Middle East countries including Gaza (controlled by an Iranian proxy) -- who actually started the most recent escalations.

 

[Velli]

My reply is that people should know enough to be able to decipher right and wrong. Indeed, moral neutrality in the face of injustice is a form of complicity. America is misguided at times, of course, but the underlying principles of liberty and its commitment to human rights is a moral good. Iran, with its particular radical version of a political/religious ideology that seeks to conquer and destroy "others" is a moral wrong. This thread has outlined the many actions by Iran (both in the region and to its own population), which justify the actions against it.

So, to answer your question, I would say people should pick a side. Take a stand. Dispense with the moral relativism. The two sides, America and Iran, are not the same. "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." -- German pastor and anti-Nazi theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

The urge to always pick a side is the basis of many millions of lives lost in history.

“Moral good” does not include surprise attacks that kill the leader of a country that is “moral wrong”. Two wrongs don’t make one right.

 

[Velli]

Again, your claims are just not true as a matter fact as Israel has peace treaties with Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Morocco. I would dare say, but for Iran's proxy wars, Israel would be at peace with all the Middle East countries including Gaza (controlled by an Iranian proxy) -- who actually started the most recent escalations.

Yes, Gaza started the recent escalations, agreed. That doesn’t exclude me from believing Israel escalated the situation unnecessarily by responding disproportionally.

Like I said, both are in the wrong.

 

[chmania]

as a matter fact as Israel has peace treaties with Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Morocco.

Sure, little "kings, "sultans", "sheikhs" would sell their soul to the Zionists to live in wealth.

And, once or if the war with Israel ends, the courts are waiting for Netanyahu, so he will keep on escalating the conflict. Most probably, the courts will be waiting for the one at the White Chapel in the US.

 

[chmania]

The Funny Man faces a problem when the US "fake" media prints parts of the truth — it is not his success but his failure. Any opening of the Strait of Hormuz depends on a ceasefire in Lebanon. Even then, no commercial ships from the US, NATO or other unfriendly countries will be permitted transit, and the US 5th Fleet will never be allowed in.

Imagine a situation where Trump brokered a superficial ceasefire between Lebanese prime minister and Israel, yet the Lebanese army has not been at war with Israel during the past 40+ days. Israel is the one, who encroached, destroyed and is not leaving. So, what kind of a nonsense is that? Hezbollah is not a party to this sham ceasefire in Lebanon; if they decide retaliation is justified, who will stop them?

 

[steve62388]

Sad. 😒

What would you like to discuss? It's an on-going conflict. My position has been that the US was justified in taking action. As to whether it will be a blunder or not, I think the jury is still out. Iran's military has been significantly degraded by any assessment but I think the litmus test will be whether Iran's nuclear capacity is eliminated.

That said, I do concede that I, a mere layman, do not understand how the US administration planned to achieve that main goal without deployment of ground troops but maybe that can be accomplished now through an agreement. I do not know. But if it can, I would not consider the action to be a blunder. We'll see I guess.

You mean it would be considered a success if Iran stops developing nuclear weapons, like under the JCPOA before trump ripped it up?

You say Iran’s military has been degraded. For what purpose? They weren’t attacking anyone. I don’t recall that ever being listed as one of the many schizophrenic stated reasons why the us attacked.

Are any of my earlier points, as the situation currently stands, wrong? Because that’s just a whole lot of massive strategic failures for trump, and no wins.

Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets

With the recently announced ceasefire, let’s take stock of where we currently are. Did the Iranian government fall? No. And the current leadership no doubt hates the US more than ever. Did the US remove uranium from Iran? No. Did the US setback the Iranian nuclear program? Who knows? Probably...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Madhatter32]

You mean it would be considered a success if Iran stops developing nuclear weapons, like under the JCPOA before trump ripped it up?

You say Iran’s military has been degraded. For what purpose? They weren’t attacking anyone. I don’t recall that ever being listed as one of the many schizophrenic stated reasons why the us attacked.

Are any of my earlier points, as the situation currently stands, wrong? Because that’s just a whole lot of massive strategic failures for trump, and no wins.

Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets

With the recently announced ceasefire, let’s take stock of where we currently are. Did the Iranian government fall? No. And the current leadership no doubt hates the US more than ever. Did the US remove uranium from Iran? No. Did the US setback the Iranian nuclear program? Who knows? Probably...

forums.macrumors.com

You keep pointing to that agreement as if it was some sort of pancea. It wasn't. That agreement was temporary and did not address ICBMs or other delivery systems. Iran cheated throughout any way and prevented the IAEA access to critical facilities. That agreement did not even prohibit uranium enrichment except beyond the breakout level. So, yes, a permanent cessation of nuclear development by Iran would be far superior than anything encompassed in that agreement.

 

[jimmy_john]

You keep pointing to that agreement as if it was some sort of pancea. It wasn't. That agreement was temporary and did not address ICBMs or other delivery systems. Iran cheated throughout any way and prevented the IAEA access to critical facilities. That agreement did not even prohibit uranium enrichment except beyond the breakout level. So, yes, a permanent cessation of nuclear development by Iran would be far superior than anything encompassed in that agreement.

You must be an Iranian nuclear scientist to have such insider info that invalidates everything the global intelligence community has concluded!

 

[steve62388]

You keep pointing to that agreement as if it was some sort of pancea. It wasn't. That agreement was temporary and did not address ICBMs or other delivery systems. Iran cheated throughout any way and prevented the IAEA access to critical facilities. That agreement did not even prohibit uranium enrichment except beyond the breakout level. So, yes, a permanent cessation of nuclear development by Iran would be far superior than anything encompassed in that agreement.

Well that’s demonstrably not true. The IAEA confirmed that they were satisfied with inspections, and Iran was adhering to the agreed limitations.

Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets

The IAEA stated that Iran was meeting it’s JCPOA obligations until trump pulled out of the agreement. https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/iran-is-implementing-nuclear-related-jcpoa-commitments-director-general-amano-tells-iaea-board

forums.macrumors.com

Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets

Under the terms of the JCPOA, which the IAEA confirmed were being met, Iran could stockpile 300kg of Uranium, which if refined further could produce one quarter the amount needed for one nuclear weapon. https://www.armscontrol.org/2015-08/section-3-understanding-jcpoa Once trump abandoned the...

forums.macrumors.com

The only time Iran has paused nuclear weapon development has been through the negotiations of the JCPOA, they resumed them after trump ripped it up. Iran was acting in good faith. One could better assume they would have extended the terms, rather than the obvious resumption in development when trump stupidly pulled out. And realistically we all know he did that in a fit of pique, just because it was negotiated under the Obama administration, and not for any valid strategic reasons.

I notice that you never actually answer questions when directly asked.

 

[BaldiMac]

You keep pointing to that agreement as if it was some sort of pancea. It wasn't. That agreement was temporary and did not address ICBMs or other delivery systems. Iran cheated throughout any way and prevented the IAEA access to critical facilities. That agreement did not even prohibit uranium enrichment except beyond the breakout level. So, yes, a permanent cessation of nuclear development by Iran would be far superior than anything encompassed in that agreement.

There goes the strawman. Pretend that someone said it was a panacea and then refute the claim that no one made.

The JCPOA was designed to limit Iran's ability to produce weapons grade nuclear material. It was successful at doing that until 45 decided to withdraw. Sure would have been nice after the 10 years to be able to negotiate a new deal with Iran after demonstrating that we would keep our word.

 

[chmania]

You keep pointing to that agreement as if it was some sort of pancea. It wasn't. That agreement was temporary and did not address ICBMs or other delivery systems. Iran cheated throughout any way and prevented the IAEA access to critical facilities. That agreement did not even prohibit uranium enrichment except beyond the breakout level. So, yes, a permanent cessation of nuclear development by Iran would be far superior than anything encompassed in that agreement.

Do you know why America doesn’t attack North Korea? Because it has nuclear weapons that can reach the US. Remember, it was Trump who went to meet the North Korean leader, not the other way around.

Iran has the right to civilian nuclear power, or missiles and if the US has such capabilities, why shouldn’t another country? When was the last time anyone threatened to obliterate an entire civilisation — was it simply because the US possessed nukes? Can a state merely threaten anyone with impunity? Given that, Iran now has even more justification to pursue nuclear capabilities; that would deter an attack by Trump, Netanyahu or any other hawk. Would anyone publicly threaten North Korea even on social media? No.

Iran ranks among the world’s stronger navies and does not rely solely on old, heavy, sluggish ships. Unlike the US 5th Fleet, Iran did not withdraw. What use is a massive nuclear‑powered aircraft carrier that must remain 1,100 km from the Iranian coast, or a large landing ship that cannot approach the shoreline?

The US has a capable air force and can strike from afar, but Iran possesses missiles that cost a fraction of the price of advanced US missiles, aircraft and drones. How many of those were shot down or damaged during that 32‑day conflict? Despite extensive intelligence, the US still lacks full knowledge of Iran’s capabilities — and of what the Houthis or Hezbollah possess. That is why Trump sued for a ceasefire. Whether the US can recover its position remains to be seen after 24 April; perhaps there will be another TACO.

 

[JMalone]

It is their country. America and Israel attacked it, so who is the aggressor? Who is the terrorist? Who is the child murderer?

Clearly you are completely alien from their culture and history.

Hezbollah are invaders in Lebanon. They are an Iranian backed terror group. Israel is fighting Hezbollah not Lebanon.

The so called “Arab Palestinians” in so called “Palestine” are from Jordan. Hamas is an Iranian backed terror group. Israel is fighting Hamas not the Arab nations despite centuries of Arabs murdering Jews.

Before Hamas there was Yasser Arafat a terrorist from Jordan, again not from “Palestine”.

Do you know where the name “West Bank” comes from? It means “West Bank of the River Jordan”. Before Jordan invaded that area 60 years ago it was called Judea for 3000 years.

If you are in denial about the Jewish homeland that makes you an anti-Semite and a history denier.

Even the Quran does not mention “Palestine” because it is not a thing anyone ever wanted. It is an abomination forced on the Jewish homeland by the Roman Empire.

The world has been suffering the sins of the Roman Empire for centuries. The Christian cult we know of was a creation of the Romans because they wanted to use it to eliminate all Jews. Islam was an invention by the Byzantines who implanted it into Arab culture because they wanted the Arabs to eliminate all Jews after the last major Jewish revolt.

 

[chmania]

Clearly you are completely alien from their culture and history.

Hezbollah are invaders in Lebanon. They are an Iranian backed terror group. Israel is fighting Hezbollah not Lebanon.

The so called “Arab Palestinians” in so called “Palestine” are from Jordan. Hamas is an Iranian backed terror group. Israel is fighting Hamas not the Arab nations despite centuries of Arabs murdering Jews.

Before Hamas there was Yasser Arafat a terrorist from Jordan, again not from “Palestine”.

Do you know where the name “West Bank” comes from? It means “West Bank of the River Jordan”. Before Jordan invaded that area 60 years ago it was called Judea for 3000 years.

If you are in denial about the Jewish homeland that makes you an anti-Semite and a history denier.

Even the Quran does not mention “Palestine” because it is not a thing anyone ever wanted. It is an abomination forced on the Jewish homeland by the Roman Empire.

The world has been suffering the sins of the Roman Empire for centuries. The Christian cult we know of was a creation of the Romans because they wanted to use it to eliminate all Jews. Islam was an invention by the Byzantines who implanted it into Arab culture because they wanted the Arabs to eliminate all Jews after the last major Jewish revolt.

The Americans are completely alien in the Middle East. And, in Korea, and in Japan...and so on. It is that simple!

 

[jon9091]

Bernie is a multi-millionaire do nothing charlatan

But you were fine with voting for Trump?