Ireland Agrees to Appeal European Commission's Apple Tax Ruling

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    Ireland's coalition government has agreed to appeal the European Commission's ruling that it must collect 13 billion euros in back taxes from Apple, according to Reuters. A motion will come before the country's Parliament on Wednesday seeking an endorsement of that decision, a government spokesperson said.

    It was always expected that both Apple and Ireland would appeal any adverse decision, as insisted by the country's finance minister Michael Noonan, but Ireland's cabinet members became divided on the matter following the ruling. After meeting on Friday, however, the cabinet has seemingly come together and agreed to join Apple's fight against the European Commission.

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    Earlier this week, the European Commission ruled that Apple received illegal state aid from Ireland, following a three-year inquiry into the company's tax arrangements in the country. The investigation's results showed that Apple allegedly paid between 0.005% and 1% in taxes in Ireland between 2003 and 2014, compared to the the country's headline 12.5% corporate tax rate.

    Apple CEO Tim Cook called the findings "total political crap" and described the lower end 0.005% tax rate as a "false number." In an open letter, Cook said Apple is confident the decision "will be reversed," but the appeal process could take several years in European courts. Apple has previously said it fully complies with international tax law and is the largest taxpayer in the world.

    Cook also said that Apple has "provisioned several billion dollars for the U.S. for payment," and he forecasted that it could repatriate that cash next year. Europe's competition commissioner Margrethe Vestager previously said that Apple could lower its Irish tax bill by paying appropriate taxes in other countries, or by increasing R&D payments to its U.S. operations.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: Ireland Agrees to Appeal European Commission's Apple Tax Ruling
     
  2. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

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    I suppose this should be 13 billion, not million.
     
  3. cube macrumors G5

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    13 billion euro, plus up to 6 billion interest.
     
  4. jamezr macrumors G4

    jamezr

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    #4
    This is funny now Ireland is going to appeal to change being paid 13 BILLION???? Why? Because if this stands up then other corporations will not use Ireland as a tax haven anymore and they stand to lose billions more than just 13 billion.
     
  5. djcerla macrumors 65816

    djcerla

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    #5
    Merckel is on Apple-Ireland-US side, too.

    Going to be messy.
     
  6. cube macrumors G5

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    #6
    She is a TTIP promoter, so maybe there's some logic in this.
     
  7. japanime macrumors 68000

    japanime

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    Apple should change its motto to:

    Designed in California
    Sheltered in Ireland

    :D
     
  8. Bigsk8r macrumors 6502

    Bigsk8r

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    The commission made a tactical error by going for it all. In a real court of law, Apple will be able to prove that they were doing business in Ireland since the 80's, conducting the same partitioning of profits and taxes for over 20 years, and all 100% within existing tax laws.

    It is not their fault that 'everyone' sees an issue with them playing by other peoples rules. The EU could have dropped the number a lot and leaned on Ireland to modify it's tax code. Instead they got greedy and went after a number so large that both Apple and Ireland will stand and fight. The EU / commission will never see a fraction of this money because they are arrogant and not thinking smartly.
     
  9. cube macrumors G5

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    Why does Ireland have to fight receiving 19 billion euro?
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Because the exodus from Ireland as a tax haven would cost them more.
     
  11. cube macrumors G5

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    I am not sure about that, they still have one of the lowest rates in the EU.

    And this is about a Single Irish, not a Double Irish (which will end in 2020).
     
  12. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    Because if Apple wins, no company in its right mind will want to base its operations in Ireland. There go the mild ancillary benefits.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Until the EU decides that is too low and goes after them for back taxes. This is the problem with not being in control of your own country. Ireland purposely lowers its rates to get companies in, US states do the same thing with tax vacations for companies that move ops to their home state. In fact states often compete with lowered rates. Now imagine a government outside of the US tells the states they can't do that and sue the companies they got to come to their state and provide jobs.
     
  14. cube macrumors G5

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    See above.
     
  15. Zarniwoop, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016

    Zarniwoop macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Ireland should be collecting taxes on behalf of all 28 member states. All Apple profits made in France are taxed in Ireland. Other EU states already are paying Ireland more than it contributes to the Union. Can Ireland be same time under-performer in public economy to receive compensation from other states, and same time refuse to tax companies? This is a puzzle for Ireland... if they tax companies as they should, countrys economy would rise to a level, that EU wouldn't compensate any more their bad economy. But same time it wouldn't be attractive for companies who are always looking for the lowest tax rate possible.

    So it is not just an illegal state aid, but Irelands feast is paid by all member states - and Ireland only benefits. And the tax avoiding companies.

    This is not a matter can a sovereign country make their own tax laws... Ireland is doing it on behalf of 500 million people Union.
     
  16. cube macrumors G5

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    The EU ruling is not about the tax code, but about special casing.
     
  17. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #17
    This is a legal issue and not a political one (albeit it has a moral dimension).
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    A special casing that's been going on for decades with multiple corporations under Irelands support that relates to the tax rate Apple pays. Who's to say what the EU will take issue with next, toilet paper rolled under or over?

    Either way if this ruling stands Ireland will be losing thousands of current jobs and thousands of potential jobs.
     
  19. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    The jobs that will be lost will be in the Irish banking industry, since they hold on to Apple's money....
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Not only that but many technology companies have jobs there as well as part of their tax deals, I work with a dev team in Ireland.
     
  21. cube macrumors G5

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    #21
    The investigation started 3 years ago, from that date, they can go 10 years back, as in any tax adjustment.

    That Ireland will lose is your opinion.

    A similar thing recently happened to EDF in France, for over a billion.

    And the same thing happened to Santander and others in Spain, the EU lost the appeal, and appealed back.

    Similar thing to 4 soccer clubs in Spain recently.

    Etc.

    There's no US witch hunt. These are the rules to play in Europe.
     
  22. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    Aside from anything else countries tend to be attached to being able to set their own tax rates.
     
  23. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    And only millennials are special snowflakes...
     
  24. weckart macrumors 68040

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    Way to overreact with all this slippery slope nonsense. The EU has wanted to look at this for years. As for jobs, if Apple wants a foothold in the lucrative European Single Market then it needs to be based in one of the member states. If not Ireland, then where?
     
  25. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    Like what's been happening on Greece?
     

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