Ireland May End Apple Tax Residency Loophole

[swens]

Dude...

A multi billion dollar corporation should be paying ****in tax. Simple as that. Sheeple should understand they are taking the piss and realise that. We all pay tax and we get ripped off so why shouldnt Apple pay there dues? I like Apple dont get me wrong but when Im paying considerable taxes on my wages and they arent then its time to act. Its a question of fairness. Dont let fanboyism get in the road of that.

It's called competition. Every country competes for revenue just like every state in the US. You can hate the fact that Ireland and a number of other countries have a low tax rate, but all they're doing is competing for the $. If the U.S. wants to compete, reduce the corporate tax rate so apple will bring the $ back from overseas. IE: the US isn't being competitive enough....so tough luck. Additionally, they need to update the overall set of tax rules so that companies can't create shell organizations/subsidiaries in Ireland that allow companies to book sales from that country when they really occur somewhere else..... Basically - you should be complaining and pressuring politicians to make these changes. Apple has to play by the same rules as everyone else to satisfy their owners...ie: their shareholders.

 

[ccuilla]

You don't provide any additional information here. It wouldn't be much different if you asked whether a particular cloud looked like a duck. It doesn't even have anything to do with biases. You never explained how one thing was derived from another, and the term theft was used to convey an emotional response.

You are compelled, under threat of violent force to pay your taxes. Explain to me how this is fundamentally different from mugging at gunpoint?

It is not. You can dress it up all you like...but it fundamentally boils down to that.

It has everything to do with (your) biases because these are obviously blinding you to this reality.

However, here is an excellent paper laying it out.

In any case, I'm quite sure you cannot be convinced. That's fine. You have also failed to clarify why and how it is not theft. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I'm confident in my position, as are you I'm sure. Be that as it may, let it be known clearly that I don't desire to hold a gun to anyone and demand their property, but anyone who advocates taxation surely does even if don't indirectly so as to assuage their conscience.

 

[Plutonius]

Thats ridiculous, they've been there since the 80's they're hardly going to shut up shot because of this. They've used us for long enough.

Why do you think that much of Apple's business is in Ireland since the 80's? It's because of the tax breaks Ireland gave Apple.

Apple is a business. How much money do you think it would actually take to get Apple to move. Eliminating the loophole will cost Apple millions. I don't think keeping the business in Ireland is worth millions (i.e. they will save millions moving to a more friendly tax haven if Ireland eliminates the loophole).

 

[Glideslope]

No Drama

Won't effect Apple. Simply painting a Lemon Green and saying it's a Lime.

"Trust the Government. It worked well for the Indians."

 

[9000]

I like Apple dont get me wrong but when Im paying considerable taxes on my wages and they arent then its time to act. Its a question of fairness. Dont let fanboyism get in the road of that.

Being a "fanboy" wouldn't matter since all the large corporations do it. I don't like it. How about closing the loopholes but lowering the tax? Let's face it, it's tough to justify a corporate tax much higher than that of other countries when the economy is global.

 

[Martin81]

Ah, the Irish. When there economy and there banking sector was down, they got munch money from the EU. How do they pay it back? By lowering corporate tax for multi national firms. It's not only Apple, but you probably get more hits, if Apple stands in the headline.

Unless all countries work together and come up with a global tax system, the tax avoidance will continue.
If Ireland closes these loopholes, all companies will move to the next willing country.

 

[mtneer]

Apple is probably worth more than all of Ireland... just buy 'em

 

[NutsNGum]

I hope there is something in life that you are good at since it clearly isn't market economics. Apple will go wherever they can maximize stockholder equity. Hint: that isn't where they have to pay more taxes.

Well I'm glad at least I contribute to you finding out what you're good at, which is apparently being a douchebag on the internet.

 

[Khedron]

You are compelled, under threat of violent force to pay your taxes. Explain to me how this is fundamentally different from mugging at gunpoint?

It is not. You can dress it up all you like...but it fundamentally boils down to that.

It has everything to do with (your) biases because these are obviously blinding you to this reality.

However, here is an excellent paper laying it out.

In any case, I'm quite sure you cannot be convinced. That's fine. You have also failed to clarify why and how it is not theft. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I'm confident in my position, as are you I'm sure. Be that as it may, let it be known clearly that I don't desire to hold a gun to anyone and demand their property, but anyone who advocates taxation surely does even if don't indirectly so as to assuage their conscience.

Such a childish entitled point of view. Whose currency are you using? Who is providing the national and social structure to defend your property and currency?

So the government should only exist to protect you and your property. Anything it does to the benefit of anyone else is evil. And even though the government should only benefit YOU, YOU should also be the only one who doesn't pay for it. (How are you not advocating slavery? It's fundamentally the same *rollseyes*)

If you hate it so much have your own revolution. Make your own declaration of independene instead of whinging other people don't do exactly what you want while you do nothing yourself.

 

[Rossatron]

It's not penalising to prevent large corporations taking the piss out of the tax system.

Than law-makers had better make sure not to pass crappy legislation. If the tax system has loopholes someone will take advantage of them, and it's their right.

 

[808?]

Income taxes are such an absolute joke, penalizing people and corporations for productivity. A tax on land ownership is infinitely more logical because it incentivizes maximally efficient use of all land rather than hoarding, squatting, etc.

This is what we do in Hong Kong, minimal income/profits taxes, but the government makes so much money from land taxes each year, it actually gives the residents some of it back as cash.

 

[VulchR]

All that money stashed by Apple outside of the US and still services like Siri and Maps outside the US are awful (see, for example, https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1640706/).

 

[Pyrrhic Victory]

This is what we do in Hong Kong, minimal income/profits taxes, but the government makes so much money from land taxes each year, it actually gives the residents some of it back as cash.

Interesting, I'll have to read more about Hong Kong's tax policies. Obviously land is really at a premium over there.

 

[NutsNGum]

Than law-makers had better make sure not to pass crappy legislation. If the tax system has loopholes someone will take advantage of them, and it's their right.

Corporations are people too!

YAY MONEY.

Etc.

Morally dubious, perhaps. But still. Yay money.

 

[Risco]

In other news Apple makes 10,000 redundancies after closing their Ireland operation due to "financial constraints forced up them by the Irish government" ....

 

[eldernorm]

At least one here gets it.

the only reason US companies do this is because the US has the worst tax laws on the books. the US requires companies to pay taxes on profits earned outside the US that have already been taxed by other governments. ...

At least one person here understands the issue. To all you "Apple must pay its taxes"... You just show your ignorance of the issue.

Apple paid about 6 BILLION dollars in taxes last year in the USA alone. Taxes were paid in other countries as required by their tax laws.

ONCE those taxes were paid, the money was moved to Ireland cause they do not DOUBLE tax it. From there, Apple can pay bills in China, Europe, south america, anywhere with out paying more taxes on money that already been taxed.

The US government found that Apple had done nothing wrong after a big investigation. because Apple had done nothing wrong.

If you just hate Apple.... (have no idea why but you are free to hate anyone you wish)... but consider getting the facts right, and maybe being a little smarter than our congressmen.... that part ain't hard.

Just saying.

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Such a childish entitled point of view. Whose currency are you using? Who is providing the national and social structure to defend your property and currency?

So the government should only exist to protect you and your property. ...

And just what are you trying to say. Apple pays taxes in all of Europe for sales in Europe, of course the US should have some of that money.... just because it will get votes for yelling stupid congressmen.

The US govt. found NO ISSUES with Apples actions. NONE. So maybe they are following the law after all.

PS.. Apple paid about 6,000,000,000 dollars in taxes last year in the US alone. That is about 1/40 of all company taxes paid in the USA. How much more money do you think they should pay.????

 

[ccuilla]

Such a childish entitled point of view.

Wrong. I don't have an "entitled" POV. It;s those who thing that they are entitled to someone else's property that you should be thinking of.

Whose currency are you using? Who is providing the national and social structure to defend your property and currency?

The one I'm forced to use.

So the government should only exist to protect you and your property.

Just so I'm perfectly clear when I answer this, lest some moron misunderstand it: to protect everyone and everyone's property equally. Not just mine.

Anything it does to the benefit of anyone else is evil.

If, in doing so, it is committing an immoral act (say theft or coercion), then yes.

And even though the government should only benefit YOU, YOU should also be the only one who doesn't pay for it. (How are you not advocating slavery? It's fundamentally the same *rollseyes*)

Wow. No where have I ever claimed the government should only benefit or protect me alone. That's just pure straw man. As for slavery...that's what you have when you forcibly take some or all of someone's labor. That's what the government does.

If you hate it so much have your own revolution.

I'm trying.

instead of whinging other people don't do exactly what you want...

That's just hilarious coming from someone who obviously advocates for an entity whose whole existence is predicated on forcing other people to do exactly what they want.


Nice work here.



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Just remember that companies don't actually pay taxes.... they just collect them.

Taxes are overhead, a cost of doing business. Guess who pays for them?

This is correct.

 

[Khedron]

blah blah blah

Taxes are not immoral. They are not theft. They are the reasonable cost of a civilised society. Get over it.

 

[69650]

Good. I may be an Apple fan but I still think they should pay their fair share of corporate tax around the world. I hope the Irish follow this through and close the loopholes.

 

[ccuilla]

Taxes are not immoral. They are not theft. They are the reasonable cost of a civilised society. Get over it.

Obviously we disagree on all three of your claims but thanks for sharing your opinion (and demonstrating your maturity.)

 

[kdarling]

Apple paid about 6 BILLION dollars in taxes last year in the USA alone.

Apple also avoided paying 9 BILLION dollars in 2012 US taxes by keeping money offshore.

Big numbers are just big numbers.

Taxes were paid in other countries as required by their tax laws.

"One affiliate -- Apple Operations International --generated net income of $30 billion between 2009 and 2012. It declined to declare a tax residence, filed no corporate tax return and paid no income taxes to any nation, the report said. AOI is Apple’s principal offshore holding company." - Bloomberg

The US govt. found NO ISSUES with Apples actions. NONE. So maybe they are following the law after all.

They found no illegalities. That doesn't mean everyone is okay with it. Some currently legal loopholes could end up getting closed.

Interestingly, sometimes keeping deals off-shore has negative legal consequences. For example, Apple claimed patent exhaustion in their ITC dispute with Samsung. Unfortunately, that USA rule only works for items sold in the USA. Apple had bought and sold all the broadband chips overseas, and thus those chips did not have the same US legal protection they would've, had the deals been done (and taxes paid on) in the US.

 

[Mr-Kerrse]

Taxes are not immoral. They are not theft. They are the reasonable cost of a civilised society. Get over it.

It really all depends how your taxes are spent on whether you consider they are reasonable

I have to also have laugh at "civilised soceity" have you actually seen the state of our so called civilised society ?

what exactly is so civilised about it ?

 

[Michael Goff]

It really all depends how your taxes are spent on whether you consider they are reasonable

I have to also have laugh at "civilised soceity" have you actually seen the state of our so called civilised society ?

what exactly is so civilised about it ?

Once it's given, it's not your money anymore. It doesn't matter if you want the money to be spent on something. That's why we elect representatives, to represent us and make these decisions. It isn't your money anymore.

 

[ccuilla]

Once it's given, it's not your money anymore. It doesn't matter if you want the money to be spent on something. That's why we elect representatives, to represent us and make these decisions. It isn't your money anymore.

Taken. The word you're looking for is "taken."

 

[kdarling]

It's called competition. Every country competes for revenue just like every state in the US. You can hate the fact that Ireland and a number of other countries have a low tax rate, but all they're doing is competing for the $. If the U.S. wants to compete, reduce the corporate tax rate so apple will bring the $ back from overseas. IE: the US isn't being competitive enough....so tough luck.

It's easier to compete on tax rates when costs are lower. For example, each year:

• Ireland spends about $700 per citizen on defense and foreign aid
• The US spends about $2500 per citizen on defense and foreign aid.

I'm sure there are other countries that spend even less than Ireland, which have even lower corporate taxes.

I'm not saying such expenditures are good or bad. But they have to be paid for. It's not just a matter of making up a lower tax rate "to compete".