Is 2015 rmbp the best?

[jerryk]

So, nobody cares about the soldered SSD in 2016 tb models?
The lack of upgrading it, or replacing it, the issue of having your valuable data (personal, commercial, scientific etc) shared with Apple in case of a logic board failure or other damage?
Aren't these serious concerns?

The SSDs in a 2015 rMBPs have never been practically upgradable.

You can get a larger OWC SSD, but then you are replacing a 1.5GB/sec SSD with a 0.5 GB/sec SSD.

If you want to get the 1.5GB/sec factory drive you have to get one pulled from an existing Apple system or from a repair shop. They are in the M.2 form factor, but use a Apple proprietary interface so you cannot use 3rd party M.2 drives.

If you have an issue with the data being seen, turn on FileVault to encrypt your data. Apple has recommended turning on FileVault since Yosemite.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Knowing you'll have to buy dongles or use workarounds or spend even more money after the initial purchase of the newest macbook to reproduce your current workflow doesn't sound like a selling point to me. Borderline dealbreaker if money is an issue to you IMO.

Would anyone suggest buying a 2016 macbook without first doing research on what accessories you also need to buy to make sure it works with your existing technology?

For "latest and greatest" reasons I'd still be interested in a 16gb equipped 15" macbook but sheesh that price tag really makes you look at other options.

 

[guy_mac]

You have just summed up my point perfectly. The features you raise are undeniably better TO YOU not to everyone. The 2016 is the latest and greatest by definition but perhaps the upgrades don't work for YOU as YOU miss the old components. But YOU are not everyone and the sales of the 2016s and the equally positive reviews for them support this fact.

1. magsafe: objectively better
2. longer battery life: objectively better
3. same performance at much lower cost: objectively better
4. no need for dongles: objectively better

These features are objectively better for any and all users.
[doublepost=1483051118][/doublepost]

The SSDs in a 2015 rMBPs have never been practically upgradable.

You can get a larger OWC SSD, but then you are replacing a 1.5GB/sec SSD with a 0.5 GB/sec SSD.

If you want to get the 1.5GB/sec factory drive you have to get one pulled from an existing Apple system or from a repair shop. They are in the M.2 form factor, but use a Apple proprietary interface so you cannot use 3rd party M.2 drives.

If you have an issue with the data being seen, turn on FileVault to encrypt your data. Apple has recommended turning on FileVault since Yosemite.

This doesn't negate the fact that the 16 ssd is soldered however.

It's part of the undeniable trend towards total lack of upgradability, however flawed or limited one's options in the past.

The pro is actually a macbook with some refinements.

 

[Dave410]

I don't know what type of shooting you do, but....

1) Calibration is only useful for setting curves/levels.
2) When shooting still life for clients, PP work is easier with a bright display.
3) When shooting at location outdoors, brighter display is a big help.



R.

I shoot mostly travel and landscape, not production or softbox. I print a few images now and then and I usually have to increase the print brightness to match the screen, indicating my calibration isn't perfect.

Dunno. The calibration software always wants me to turn monitor brightness way down and I never turn it up again no matter what the ambient light levels are.

 

[aevan]

Why would you assume that? The 13" is far more popular.

I faulted due to subjectiveness. Since I god the 15", I always assume everyone is talking about that one. Cognitive bias. Mea culpa.

Also, I did not know the 13" is more popular, but it kinda makes sense.
[doublepost=1483052585][/doublepost]

Obnoxious and arrogant comment. Could not wait to see all incoming problems experienced by early adopters coming to the this poster.

Wishing bad luck to people? Not cool, man. I may disagree with a lot of people here, but I would never wish anything bad happen to them or the gear they payed good money for. If I believed in karma - this would be the definition of bad one. Since I don't, I'll just say it's a sign of poor character. Hope you didn't really mean it.

BTW, how was his comment arrogant? Do you know what "regressive" means?

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

1. magsafe: objectively better
2. longer battery life: objectively better
3. same performance at much lower cost: objectively better
4. no need for dongles: objectively better

These features are objectively better for any and all users.
[doublepost=1483051118][/doublepost]

This doesn't negate the fact that the 16 ssd is soldered however.

It's part of the undeniable trend towards total lack of upgradability, however flawed or limited one's options in the past.

The pro is actually a macbook with some refinements.

What you list is not objectively better and/or factually correct I'm afraid. Very briefly -

1. magsafe: objectively better

Except it isn't. I and many prefer having universal ports rather than a dedicated power port even if MagSafe was nice to use. Third party Magsafe style cables can be used in any event.

2. longer battery life: objectively better

Nope. I get 8-10 hours which is the same as the 15" 2015 I had. Not everyone has battery issues - how many times must this be stated?

3. same performance at much lower cost: objectively better

2016 - faster RAM, SSD and GPU. These are all facts. Can you explain how there is the 'same performance'?

4. no need for dongles: objectively better

Most have bought cheap new cables - therefore no dongles. USB C is the new standard and the 2015 suffers here.

You also forgot better screens, speakers, smaller and lighter bodies and for SOME better keyboards and the addition of the TB.

Now you'll selectively justify why I'm wrong through your own preferences - none of which will have any objective support which is fine as you prefer the 2015 as it clearly fits your needs.
[doublepost=1483052820][/doublepost]

I faulted due to subjectiveness. Since I god the 15", I always assume everyone is talking about that one. Cognitive bias. Mea culpa.

Also, I did not know the 13" is more popular, but it kinda makes sense.
[doublepost=1483052585][/doublepost]

Wishing bad luck to people? Not cool, man. I may disagree with a lot of people here, but I would never wish anything bad happen to them or the gear they payed good money for. If I believed in karma - this would be the definition of bad one. Since I don't, I'll just say it's a sign of poor character. Hope you didn't really mean it.

BTW, how was his comment arrogant? Do you know what "regressive" means?

Don't worry pal, haters hate at the drop of a hat. In any case, if I get his bad luck, that's what Apple's exchange policy is for

WWHG.

 

[Uplift]

I went from a 2015 to a 2016 and my answer is: It depends what is important to you.

Is 2016 faster: Debatable. I'm not seeing any huge performance boosts, the 2015 was already massively capable so I wasn't really bothered. However, it does seem far more efficient. My 2015 rMBP fans would spin up for any reason at all.. as soon as the CPU came under load (lots of tabs in Chrome, indexing project in PHPStorm, the second I loaded WOW, etc..). The 2016 runs so much cooler I almost never hear the fans now. In conclusion, the 2016 can certainly handle my workflow more efficiently.

Do I miss MagSafe: No, as much as I loved MagSafe, I actually really like the USB-C charger.. It can charge from any port so I can switch it around based on where I am sitting, the cable is nice and long and is very strong. While the MagSafe is great, the cable was incredibly thin and damaged quite easily.. I'm happy to say I'll never need to buy an expensive replacement. However, MagSafe's selling point was saving your MacBook from being dragged and damaging it so I guess it remains to be seen whether I feel the same way if I somehow manage to damage this thing.

I have a MagSafe style adapter coming from Kickstarter, I almost cancelled but was too late.. I guess it'll be handy to have.

Design: The 2016 is without a doubt a much nicer machine.. You only need to spend 10 minutes using 2016 to make the 2015 look old and dated, which is a crazy statement to make considering the 2015 is a beautiful bit of kit. However, going back and forth the old trackpad size looks tiny and an odd design choice compared to the 2016 which looks great, making better use of space. The keyboard also looks so much nicer, less light bleed, etc. It's usage of course is up for debate but I'm loving it, my typing speed has improved.

Display: Honestly it's nothing to get excited about, it's about as 'retina' as the 2015 model, it does have stronger colours and higher brightness but certainly isn't a buying choice.

DONGLES!!!: Not for me, I've embraced USB-C which most of my peripherals now uses. I spent £9 on one USB to USB-C adapter for my old USB thumb drives and my PS4 controller. My external HDD is USB-C and so is my audio interface. I have no other peripherals.

Audio: The speakers are so much better, I can't really go into detail you would need to hear for yourself. They have more bass, are clearer and much louder.

Touchbar: It's not a gimmick, It does everything the function keys done and more. It hasn't, and won't, revolutionise the way I use my Mac. It provides handy shortcuts and speeds up certain tasks in some apps. No complaints here. Touch ID is amazing on the Mac and gives you dedicated access to Siri if you use it (I don't).

Battery life: This has never been a concern for me, I am almost always plugged in... I've spent thousands on Macs, the last thing I'll be using it for is browsing a few websites.. I'll almost always be developing, producing, watching videos or gaming.. as a result I've never felt I had great battery life on either the 2015 or 2016. Admittedly, the rare time I have used the 2016 without the battery it doesn't seem like I am getting anywhere near 10 hours, but it's impossible for me to measure because I'm always abusing it so I'm pretty much always plugged in.

tldr: If you want just a super sweet powerful machine go 2015. If you want a better overall experience as well as a powerful machine go 2016. Simply weigh up what is on offer and decide if it's important to you. If you're stuck deep in USB, or maybe MagSafe has already saved your ass 100s of times then it may not be for you.

 

[aevan]

1. magsafe: objectively better
2. longer battery life: objectively better
3. same performance at much lower cost: objectively better
4. no need for dongles: objectively better

You can always take things out of context or present them in deceptive way and claim that it's objective, but you made several logical fallacies here.

1. Looking at things in a vacuum, you can claim a lot of things, but you fail to mention advantages of USB-C charging. It's not objectively better if I want to charge my MacBook with one cable from my monitor, for example. Or if I want to choose which side I plug the cable in. Sure, in some other cases a magsafe could be better - but in the end only thing you can claim with certainty is: it depends.
2. Longer battery life is objectively better - yes - but that's assuming the older model gets longer battery life.
3. Even more pronounced here -

A) same performance at much lower cost IS better, but you fail to take a lot of things into account. First of all, the performance is not the same, across all the models, the GPU performance is better and SSD performance is better and memory is faster. Also, reports say that CPUs throttle less, as I mentioned, resulting in better performance.

B) Also, you fail to take into account smaller volume - even if the performance was the same, the smaller volume for same performance is an achievement and some people will appreciate a lighter laptop.

C) You are only looking at performance to cost ratio - but the cost is higher because of other things. I'm not saying the much better screen, smaller weight, better speakers and larger trackpad (and Touch Bar on TB models) is worth it the differenc for everyone, but it certainly is a good value to some and certainly doesn't make things so simple.

4. Again, you look at things in a vacuum. Yes, dongles is worse than no dongles, but

A) You can avoid more dongles with new cables

B) While the dongles are not an advantage in themselves, the ability to use the ports (with dongles) to connect practicaly everything is better than having a few specialized ports


Also, in general, you fail to take into account all the benefits of the new model, that one might consider objective:

1. Brighter screen with better colors is objectively better
2. Lighter laptop is objectively better
3. USB-C is objectively better for upcoming USB-C devices. You can use old devices on USB-C, but you cannot use new devices on previous ports, which is objectively better.
4. Better build, especially the hinge, better speakers, etc. - objectively better


The fact that you chose only specific (and questionable, to say the least) points shows that, in fact, the point you were trying to make was not objective, but quite subjective in fact.
[doublepost=1483053845][/doublepost]

Display: Honestly it's nothing to get excited about, it's about as 'retina' as the 2015 model, it does have stronger colours and higher brightness but certainly isn't a buying choice.

Well, that really depends what you appreciate, but let me tell you the brighter screen and better colors is a major factor for me and one of the more important reasons why I just love the new MBP.

 

[spellflower]

This has been a very informative discussion! I feel like I've learned a lot about the differences, perceived and real, between the two models, and it's helped me make a decision. I'm returning the 2015/16/128 and getting a 2015/8/256.

It all comes down to price. Whether it's better or worse, the 2016 costs $260 more. I just don't need a bigger track pad, better speakers, or a brighter screen enough to pay for them. I'm already getting enough upgrades by going Pro instead of Air. Plus, I get to have all those ports!

 

[guy_mac]

You can always take things out of context or present them in deceptive way and claim that it's objective, but you made several logical fallacies here.

1. Looking at things in a vacuum, you can claim a lot of things, but you fail to mention advantages of USB-C charging. It's not objectively better if I want to charge my MacBook with one cable from my monitor, for example. Or if I want to choose which side I plug the cable in. Sure, in some other cases a magsafe could be better - but in the end only thing you can claim with certainty is: it depends.
2. Longer battery life is objectively better - yes - but that's assuming the older model gets longer battery life.
3. Even more pronounced here -

A) same performance at much lower cost IS better, but you fail to take a lot of things into account. First of all, the performance is not the same, across all the models, the GPU performance is better and SSD performance is better and memory is faster. Also, reports say that CPUs throttle less, as I mentioned, resulting in better performance.

B) Also, you fail to take into account smaller volume - even if the performance was the same, the smaller volume for same performance is an achievement and some people will appreciate a lighter laptop.

C) You are only looking at performance to cost ratio - but the cost is higher because of other things. I'm not saying the much better screen, smaller weight, better speakers and larger trackpad (and Touch Bar on TB models) is worth it the differenc for everyone, but it certainly is a good value to some and certainly doesn't make things so simple.

4. Again, you look at things in a vacuum. Yes, dongles is worse than no dongles, but

A) You can avoid more dongles with new cables

B) While the dongles are not an advantage in themselves, the ability to use the ports (with dongles) to connect practicaly everything is better than having a few specialized ports


Also, in general, you fail to take into account all the benefits of the new model, that one might consider objective:

1. Brighter screen with better colors is objectively better
2. Lighter laptop is objectively better
3. USB-C is objectively better for upcoming USB-C devices. You can use old devices on USB-C, but you cannot use new devices on previous ports, which is objectively better.
4. Better build, especially the hinge, better speakers, etc. - objectively better


The fact that you chose only specific (and questionable, to say the least) points shows that, in fact, the point you were trying to make was not objective, but quite subjective in fact.
[doublepost=1483053845][/doublepost]

Well, that really depends what you appreciate, but let me tell you the brighter screen and better colors is a major factor for me and one of the more important reasons why I just love the new MBP.

I never said the 15's are objectively better: I say they are objectively better where they are objectively better, which is in the areas I mention. The 16's have their advantages as well; unfortunately, they also have an equal number of disadvantages, one of which is higher cost.

As some reviewers have said, one step forward, one step back. They're both great choices. I am disappointed that the 16's do not qualify as unqualified homeruns. The 3.5 and 4 star ratings from macworld and other publications are fair.

I do think the 17 and 18 revs and so on will be much better performers. Anyway, I've said the same thing in a handful of posts and it seems to ruffle the feathers of 16 buyers, so it seems we are going in circles.
[doublepost=1483080498][/doublepost]

This has been a very informative discussion! I feel like I've learned a lot about the differences, perceived and real, between the two models, and it's helped me make a decision. I'm returning the 2015/16/128 and getting a 2015/8/256.

It all comes down to price. Whether it's better or worse, the 2016 costs $260 more. I just don't need a bigger track pad, better speakers, or a brighter screen enough to pay for them. I'm already getting enough upgrades by going Pro instead of Air. Plus, I get to have all those ports!

The bigger trackpad is a step forward and back as well; more surface area to use, but interferes with typing, where you can inadvertently activate the trackpad.

The 16 has too many of the disadvantages of the macbook.
[doublepost=1483080673][/doublepost]How do these two machines compare in terms of handling 4K youtube videos?

 

[filmak]

Can someone with a '16 MBP confirm that its display in lowest brightness setting is less bright than the '15 models using the same setting, please?
I think that I have read so, but I can't remember for sure, and I'd like it to be less bright...

 

[Gabrielanicolao]

2015, 16 both were awesome.

 

[filmak]

I shoot mostly travel and landscape, not production or softbox. I print a few images now and then and I usually have to increase the print brightness to match the screen, indicating my calibration isn't perfect.

Dunno. The calibration software always wants me to turn monitor brightness way down and I never turn it up again no matter what the ambient light levels are.

Imho, for better results you should have an external display calibrated using it for your evaluation purposes, in controlled lighting, and use your MBP freely without limiting or worrying about the brightness.
It's normal for calibration software to set the brightness low, there' is a need to simulate the paper or the reality which isn't backlighted.
A good EIZO or NEC is recommended, you don't have to buy the bigger ones, even a 24" is enough...

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

I never said the 15's are objectively better: I say they are objectively better where they are objectively better, which is in the areas I mention. The 16's have their advantages as well; unfortunately, they also have an equal number of disadvantages, one of which is higher cost.

As some reviewers have said, one step forward, one step back. They're both great choices. I am disappointed that the 16's do not qualify as unqualified homeruns. The 3.5 and 4 star ratings from macworld and other publications are fair.

I do think the 17 and 18 revs and so on will be much better performers. Anyway, I've said the same thing in a handful of posts and it seems to ruffle the feathers of 16 buyers, so it seems we are going in circles.
[doublepost=1483080498][/doublepost]

The bigger trackpad is a step forward and back as well; more surface area to use, but interferes with typing, where you can inadvertently activate the trackpad.

The 16 has too many of the disadvantages of the macbook.
[doublepost=1483080673][/doublepost]How do these two machines compare in terms of handling 4K youtube videos?

Why not explain why you think the 2015s are 'objectively better where they are objectively better'? Should be easy for you...

 

[MH01]

This has been a very informative discussion! I feel like I've learned a lot about the differences, perceived and real, between the two models, and it's helped me make a decision. I'm returning the 2015/16/128 and getting a 2015/8/256.

It all comes down to price. Whether it's better or worse, the 2016 costs $260 more. I just don't need a bigger track pad, better speakers, or a brighter screen enough to pay for them. I'm already getting enough upgrades by going Pro instead of Air. Plus, I get to have all those ports!

Have you tried refurb prices on 2015? This is a good time to get even better deals. I bought my 2015 as a refurb, perfect and with full warranty, saved me £1000 on a similar spec 2016
[doublepost=1483083406][/doublepost]

Why not explain why you think the 2015s are 'objectively better where they are objectively better'? Should be easy for you...

Does it matter? The 2016 owners will not agree anyway, nor will the 2015 owners , best to just agree to disagree and enjoy our machines, fundamentally we are biased with the machine we have .

I had both and opted for the 2015, price is a major factor for me, and I see much better value for money in the 2015. A 2015 2.8 1TB 370x v 2016 2.9 1TB 460 = £1000 difference for me. Sorry there is no £1000 improvement in my opinion. Heck a 2015 max + iPad Pro max is better value than 2016. You can get a lot with £1000

 

[clauzzz203]

Let this thread be a living reminder not to be suckered by the trolls

 

[MH01]

The SSDs in a 2015 rMBPs have never been practically upgradable.

You can get a larger OWC SSD, but then you are replacing a 1.5GB/sec SSD with a 0.5 GB/sec SSD.

If you want to get the 1.5GB/sec factory drive you have to get one pulled from an existing Apple system or from a repair shop. They are in the M.2 form factor, but use a Apple proprietary interface so you cannot use 3rd party M.2 drives.

If you have an issue with the data being seen, turn on FileVault to encrypt your data. Apple has recommended turning on FileVault since Yosemite.

The other key factor here is recovering data. You can always unplug the ssd from a 2015 and hope the data is safe. 2016 you have to hope enough of the logic board is functional for the recovery to be performed, I much prefer the 2015 method.

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

Have you tried refurb prices on 2015? This is a good time to get even better deals. I bought my 2015 as a refurb, perfect and with full warranty, saved me £1000 on a similar spec 2016
[doublepost=1483083406][/doublepost]

Does it matter? The 2016 owners will not agree anyway, nor will the 2015 owners , best to just agree to disagree and enjoy our machines, fundamentally we are biased with the machine we have .

I had both and opted for the 2015, price is a major factor for me, and I see much better value for money in the 2015. A 2015 2.8 1TB 370x v 2016 2.9 1TB 460 = £1000 difference for me. Sorry there is no £1000 improvement in my opinion. Heck a 2015 max + iPad Pro max is better value than 2016. You can get a lot with £1000

Actually you know what, it does matter - it's misinformation and given this poster has been pointedly aggressive in dismissing fair and reasoned points made in favour and against both models, he ought to explain how his biased comments can possibly be 'objective' or admit it's just his opinion.

 

[Maurier]

Compared to the surface book this MBP are well priced.
Microsoft is charging $400 for an nvidia 940M
1024mb?? That's a joke?
A 13 inch screen laptop with a 940M for $4000 canadians.

 

[MH01]

Actually you know what, it does matter - it's misinformation and given this poster has been pointedly aggressive in dismissing fair and reasoned points made in favour and against both models, he ought to explain how his biased comments can possibly be 'objective' or admit it's just his opinion.

It's all just opinion. i frankly don't agree some of your reasons for why the 2016 is superior, I'm not going to argue it, I accept we differ on the matter.

Sorry this thread is full of hypocrisy and bias. It's not a trial .

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

It's all just opinion. i frankly don't agree some of your reasons for why the 2016 is superior, I'm not going to argue it, I accept we differ on the matter.

Sorry this thread is full of hypocrisy and bias. It's not a trial .

I don't take any issue with opinion as I have made clear but if someone wants to tout 'facts' I and anyone else can openly query the validity of them.

 

[MH01]

I don't take any issue with opinion as I have made clear but if someone wants to tout 'facts' I and anyone else can openly query the validity of them.

Fair enough , is just leave it as , what many people claim as facts are just opinions

 

[Dave410]

Imho, for better results you should have an external display calibrated using it for your evaluation purposes, in controlled lighting, and use your MBP freely without limiting or worrying about the brightness.
It's normal for calibration software to set the brightness low, there' is a need to simulate the paper or the reality which isn't backlighted.
A good EIZO or NEC is recommended, you don't have to buy the bigger ones, even a 24" is enough...

Interesting. I have a calibrated external display and I usually calibrate my laptop display too for those time I need to produce an image while I'm traveling.

 

[guy_mac]

I don't take any issue with opinion as I have made clear but if someone wants to tout 'facts' I and anyone else can openly query the validity of them.

15 vs 16 nontouch
15 mbp: 12 hour battery/16 mbp battery: under 10, difference of 2 hrs, 14 minutes
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-retina-2015
http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/macbook-pro-13-inch

15: magsafe/16: no magsafe

15 geekbench: 7113/16 geekbench: 7053

15 ports: 2usb, 2thunderbolt, hdmi, sd card/16: 2 usbc, too close together to use both, so actually 1

15: less expensive/16 more expensive

Any more questions sunshine?

 

[aevan]

I had both and opted for the 2015, price is a major factor for me, and I see much better value for money

While I think the 2016 is a better computer in every way, there is no doubt in my mind that 2015 is better value for money.

Still, I think some people got the better value one and are now trying to convince themselves (and everyone else) that somehow, they are also better overall or that the 2016. is faulty. Or that in 2017. a new MBP will be magically better, even though there are no indications that either the cpu or gpu will be noticeably faster next year - and the ports and keyboard will surely remain as they are (only the battery life may get an hour or so more).

Anyway, to people that got the 2015. model I can only say the same thing I'd say to the 2016 buyers: you made a great choice. The 2015 is one great computer.

P.S. I keep talking about the 15" TB model, not the nTB 13" - still don't have enough information on that one