Is Apple ending Mac Pro product line?

[Apple Corps]

A few weeks ago in some other thread someone (new standard of vague) questioned why someone even cared to respond to a thread about the MP value and purchasing now. It was a good question I thought about.

My take is that these bold statements about "no justification for buying now..." - and there have been a number of them - are really "dissing" people who do have to buy a current model like NOW. The gist is that you must be ignorant, uninformed, or whatever to purchase now - thus my response.

If you are a tech spec chaser, so be it - IMO, you have a different priority than the many professionals who earn $$$ with the MP TOOL.

Yes, I just purchased a new MP - would love to have waited longer but sometimes "ya just gotta get on with it"

 

[xgman]

I agree that if you need a workhorse for your business now, the mac pro 2009 is a qualified machine, but it IS overpriced and an update SHOULD be imminent whether it is or not. I seriously doubt anyone is giving up on assignments. People here are just venting frustration over a long period of no updates for any number of personal reasons, all of which should be assumed valid. It is not for us to judge peoples personal reasons for this. In any case this is macrumors. Lots of rumors, but very few regarding mac lately.

 

[nanofrog]

There is justification - if you run your business on Macs & related apps and you need a new machine - you buy it.

Do you think people are going to lose $50,000 assignments because they "refuse" to buy the current MP on the basis of the "value"?

Get real - I just bought one and will use it until something CLEARLY better comes out - then decide if the upgrade is worth it or not.

IMO there are too many people on this topic who do not run businesses on Macs - those of us that do have a very different perspective on what "pro" means.

Where I see the "divide" is between larger entities (true corporations) vs. idependent pros or perhaps with SMB's in some cases. As where a corporate entity will have the budgets to get equipment when needed, independents in particular (assuming they do have a system that's at least usable), have a much harder time setting asside the funds over time to make sure that a future budget is in place. There's also the aspect of a leaner operation, so the value portion of the equation is more likely to differ for them (i.e. not on a fixed MTBR as a result of not having a dedicated equipment budget cycle).

SMB's can fall either way IMO, as some are just as undercapitalized as independents. They can still get work done, but haven't been in a position to be able to set aside a proper equipment budget.

For the large entities, they do have such budgets in place, and it's less of a problem, if at all (what it should be). They're after an immediate solution that will earn money (i.e. more jobs coming their way, so they hire new personnel to take on the additional workload and obtain equipment for them).

From what I've noticed on MR, most of the members seem to be independents. I could be way off, but the questions and posted situations indicate independents (some are pros, others students that will become pros).

Just my take...

 

[ValSalva]

Yes, I just purchased a new MP - would love to have waited longer but sometimes "ya just gotta get on with it"

True. If one needs a machine now then there is no choice. I just wish Apple would "get on with it" with regards to updating the Mac Pro. I think our wait is going to be less than a week at this point though.

 

[calderone]

True. If one needs a machine now then there is no choice. I just wish Apple would "get on with it" with regards to updating the Mac Pro. I think our wait is going to be less than a week at this point though.

Tomorrow. Silent update before WWDC.

 

[ValSalva]

Tomorrow. Silent update before WWDC.

Any inside info? Or just a hunch? Either way, that would be GREAT!

 

[calderone]

Any inside info? Or just a hunch? Either way, that would be GREAT!

Hunch. Since WWDC is supposed to be iPhone OS focused, I would imagine they would want to get the updates out of the way beforehand.

Unless there are some major things they want to cover in the keynote (like a redesign), I don't see them spending time on it during the conference.

The 2008 Mac Pro was updated a week before Macworld.

 

[macuserx86]

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
magical
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

 

[calderone]

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

Haha...

 

[rhett7660]

Tomorrow. Silent update before WWDC.

That would be nice.......... I don't think they will mention it either at WWDC.

 

[Apple Corps]

xgman - I have an assignment IN THE BREECH - I had to purchase - so please do not doubt that there are people needing to purchase due to assignments ready to go. I'd loved to have the next generation but....

nano - your comment on "the divide" strikes a note with me - I've been thinking about posting on that same point for some time now.

This Board (and many others) are a collision of many different perspectives, values, motives, experiences, etc. We have:

Trolls taking pleasure in doing whatever sick stuff they do

Obsessive tech spec chasers

Technically sharp 15 year olds with little life experience

Technically sharp older people with life experience but who think like 15 year olds

People who view the Mac as a treasured work of art - they have arrived

People who view the Mac as a tool they use in their business

Aggressive confrontational types

Passive types

Big picture types / literal types / etc.

Most importantly - informed people who want to HELP

etc. / etc. / etc.

It is no wonder that posts often generate more HEAT than LIGHT

 

[Icaras]

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

Yes, and it will be newly dubbed the "Magical Pro".

 

[xgman]

It is no wonder that posts often generate more HEAT than LIGHT

It's frustrating, We just want some news.

 

[nanofrog]

xgman - I have an assignment IN THE BREECH - I had to purchase - so please do not doubt that there are people needing to purchase due to assignments ready to go. I'd loved to have the next generation but....

Precisely why your situation coincided with a large entity, whether that's the size of your company or not (you had the funds for the system, and work in hand, so there was no choice but to purchase the equipment and get on with it).

nano - your comment on "the divide" strikes a note with me - I've been thinking about posting on that same point for some time now.

It just seems the best way to sum the contrast in opinions to me.

This Board (and many others) are a collision of many different perspectives, values, motives, experiences, etc....

Definitely, and plenty of valid points (not sure if the majority are or not, so playing it safe here). But not from every single POV (situational differences,...), and why the debates can sometimes become a bit heated.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

... If the Mac Pro isn't raking in the dough, they wont bother releasing a new one for a long time--that does not, however, mean the line is finished.

You must not know much about business then.

 

[deconstruct60]

You must not know much about business then.

Some folks say "ranking in the dough" when they really mean "has high growth". Like the iPad is "ranking in the dough" when there are other machines at other companies which sell in substantially smaller quantities that generate more profit.

As long as the units sold doesn't drop below some profitable lower bound run rate, it makes sense to continue to sell them. If the prices are the same (or lower ) for components and the R&D is amortized over a larger number of units the profits can actually go up by not doing anything as long as demand doesn't crater.

The 30" Cinema display is an example. For some reason folks continue to buy them. As long as they do and the parts prices don't go way up, Apple will keep selling it. It is milking a cash cow.

 

[slughead]

As long as the units sold doesn't drop below some profitable lower bound run rate, it makes sense to continue to sell them. If the prices are the same (or lower ) for components and the R&D is amortized over a larger number of units the profits can actually go up by not doing anything as long as demand doesn't crater.

Well there's also the issue of opportunity cost--they could use the mac pro plant to make something more profitable. However, they'd still have to pay to retool and everything.

I don't know if I said this before, but I really don't think they're going to abandon the line for no other reason than to not abandon the occasional institutional customer who wants all their computers (of varying specs) from the same manufacturer. Despite the "it's sooo cross platform" propaganda, a room full of PCs will work together a lot better than a couple of PCs in a room full of macs. It also requires a person with basically double the amount of experience to work 2 platforms at once (more than that when you're talking about getting them to work together--share printers, etc).

 

[slughead]

True for a completely new product. But in this case, it's really just a firmware change to allow for the newer CPU's (new microcode).

It's possible Apple could surprise us with a new case design, or even additional features on the board, but I don't think it that likely. At best, maybe the case exterior, as that would be re-used with future systems (internal's reworked as needed of course). Cost being the reason, as Intel is well aware of this scenario, and intended the new CPU's to be a drop-in after a microcode update to lower system manufacturing costs (no new boards or retooling that's not voluntary, which allows costs to be drawn out over 2yrs rather than each).

While that's all true, I'm sure they still need to pay a lot of money to retrain the workers, test the new parts, negotiate deals to supply parts, assess marketability and price point etc. etc. Even if only minor changes need to be made, they have to be made to the entire supply chain at once.

Apple is especially anal about their testing process, I'm sure they find the exact tolerances to keep their fans running as slow as possible while maintaining temperatures. They probably even forego certain video cards and processors simply because of noise. Apple is a huge corporation with a huge supply chain that probably doesn't like a lot of risk, therefore I bet a lot of research goes into each upgrade.

If it stops earning anything, they're likely to dump it

I agree, I was just saying that even if it's not a super-popular product and they're not updating it, that doesn't mean they're going to dump it (because dumping it would cost money, plus if it's still earning there's not necessarily a reason to). I was also saying that slower updates are more likely in products that aren't selling well (as change is expensive, and sometimes the product's profits wont pay for it).

 

[Sun Baked]

I can see it now...

Introducing the new iMac Pro:
glossy everything
no user-replaceable parts
magical
only port is a dock connector
only runs iPhone OS 4

starting at $3499

C'mon if you put the consumer chipset in a single CPU Mac Pro, you'd just be repeating history.

Power Macintosh G5/1.8 Single

Which lasted 8 months. Which was literally a headless iMac, and likely the first since the Tower and the iMac stopped using the same chipsets and we started having consumer and pro chipsets.

 

[nanofrog]

While that's all true, I'm sure they still need to pay a lot of money to retrain the workers, test the new parts, negotiate deals to supply parts, assess marketability and price point etc. etc. Even if only minor changes need to be made, they have to be made to the entire supply chain at once.

Not at all.

1. It's the same case, boards,... as it's a drop in replacement.
2. Validation isn't nearly as extensive as that of the Nehalem switch over. Just the new microcode, and the graphics card changes need to be dealt with.
3. Component deals are already in place with the suppliers (set for 2yr cycles, not one).

It won't take near the time or funds as the initial design and validation phases.

Apple is especially anal about their testing process....

Given the recent bug issues, it seems the validation testing has begun to fall short (i.e. audio bug that took 2x fixes to finally get sorted in the '09 MP's), and other products are suffering as well it seems (i.e. screen issues on the 27" iMac systems).

I'm not saying it's gone totally in the toilet, but it's not what it once was either (not too distant past).

 

[cs4160]

MP's not a priority

First of all, I am not a troll or an apple basher, and while I am happy for apples success, it’s certainly not been materially driven by their desktops...and like any intelligently run company, you put your resources where you get your best ROI....and clearly the phenomenal grown of the ipad/phone/pod is where it has been...at least that’s how the market has responded...there is a reason why Apple changed its name a few years ago…and again, good for them.

But this leads me to the sad conclusion that the product I myopically lust for is no longer a priority....how else to explain:

1. going 458 days without a material update...or even a price change. That’s a lifetime in the tech world
2. if you currently price out the components, less case, of a base quad core MP, I get to about 950 bucks, and that’s being conservative,....assuming the case is less than 1,500, that’s so uncompetitive, it defies belief
3. The fully loaded i7 severely cannibalizes the quad core sku...yes I know, a tower offers a myriad of advantages, but to many users, it’s not an issue...and with a similarly configured MP costing @600 bucks more NOT including a 27 inch monitor....well, I imagine that has put a further dent in quad MP sales.
4. Hardly any floor space at an apple store, and an almost complete absence of knowledge of the product by the employees (to be fair, in carlsbad at least, they seem to have a good grasp on everything else).

I can only assume that Apple is fine in not investing in a new MP platform for well over a year. Corporate sales, that require a tower and are not as price sensitive as an individual user or Small business, are probably adequate, and as suggested, offer a hefty per unit profit margin…


I for one want a MP. The current performance is more than adequate for what I need, but I cannot, with any good conscious, buy a product that is so overpriced. I didn’t think the 2009 MP’s were that good of a deal 460 days ago, and that certainly hasn’t improved with age. My fear is that the 2010 version, whenever it comes, might further morph into a product that only the very rich individual or corporate buyer can afford/justify….if that’s the case, I guess it’s a new IMAC later this year for me….

I really really look forward to being proved wrong, hopefully as soon as next week!

 

[slughead]

It won't take near the time or funds as the initial design and validation phases.

Oh certainly not. They probably wouldn't even have to get it revalidated by the FCC. I still doubt the ability of a huge supply chain to make simple alterations cheaply

 

[covrc]

Buy Now

>>I for one want a MP. The current performance is more than adequate for what I need, but I cannot, with any good conscious, buy a product that is so overpriced. I didn’t think the 2009 MP’s were that good of a deal 460 days ago, and that certainly hasn’t improved with age. My fear is that the 2010 version, whenever it comes, might further morph into a product that only the very rich individual or corporate buyer can afford/justify….if that’s the case, I guess it’s a new IMAC later this year for me….<<

I just hope you look very closely at the 27" iMac screen issue. Full Glossy and the yellowing problems were an issue. I am no fanatic about stuff, but the yellowing is a very real issue. I waited until February before finally ordering and I still went through 5 delivered to my house before giving up on the i7. I go into about 7 different Apple Stores up here around Boston and I have tested every floor model of the 27" iMac I can find and can see see the yellowing in almost the exact pattern across the screen. It is more difficult to see in the stores with the bright ambient lighting, but it is surely there and for $2100 for an i7, I can't justify spending that amount of money for a screen that should be better than what is currently being sold on the i7s.

I am still using my G4 20" which my wife bought me as a surprise 3 weeks before the G5 came out, so I do know what it is like to buy at the end of the run. She is slooow with my Photoshop and Lightroom work, but until I started shooting RAW, she was good enough. I am still in the process of setting up my refurbed 2009 2.6 Mac Pro and waiting for my refurbed NEC Multisynch 2690WUXI2 to be delivered. $2650 is a huge amount of money for both for me, but I only upgrade about every 4-5 yrs. This combination cost me a bit more, and yes, it may be left in the dust tech wise if there is this huge upgrade soon, but, we never ever ever stay at the front edge long anyway. Good luck with your choice, I hope you are as happy with yours as I am with mine.

covrc

 

[Gloor]

I have to say that I am very content with my MP 08 which is still a beast and to be honest the best value for the money I paid when they released it. The machine before wasn't as good and 2009 is overpriced joke.
On the other hand, I do have the need to have faster machine when I get to rendering stage in Maya. Every core counts and the time saved is HUGE! Luckily, I don't do rendering on every day basis but rather at the end of each project but I can only say this. When it comes to rendering then there is no such thing as enough power. The project I've been working on for months (my personal though) will take me about 2 months to render on my 8core 2.8GHz machine. That is a lot of time and as you can imagine, if I get machine that is 16cores then the time is cut in half if not more (depending on few factors like better and faster chips etc.)

I will probably ask some of my friends if they would run it through a render farm but this is just an example for the debate.

Yes, there are some people that buy MP and don't really need the power but others do buy it because they need it so mocking those of us that do need it is not going to help.

I hope Apple will release 2010 line with the same value for money we had with 2008 line. That would be super awesome ))