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Wow show me these blogs and rumor sites.

Don't make me make up a site on my Google Apps page. :p Just as credible as any other blog/rumors site/"insider"

EDIT : oh no you didn't : Most Important Blog On the Internet! says v5point0 will admit he is wrong on November 25th!

Show me that Apple released 4.2 (not 4.2.1) this month and I will admit I am wrong. 4.2 was the announced release after all. Had that been bug free, it would have been released earlier. That is all I am saying, is that so hard for you to see?

Grasping at straws and moot point. Version numbers don't matter. They promised the 4.2 branch (since the 4.2 you allude to would have been 4.2.0) in November, they delivered in November. No delay at all. Just admit you were wrong and drop it.
 
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Don't make me make up a site on my Google Apps page. :p Just as credible as any other blog/rumors site/"insider"

EDIT : oh no you didn't : Most Important Blog On the Internet! says v5point0 will admit he is wrong on November 25th!



Grasping at straws and moot point. Version numbers don't matter. They promised the 4.2 branch (since the 4.2 you allude to would have been 4.2.0) in November, they delivered in November. No delay at all. Just admit you were wrong and drop it.

Something tells me he/she will never do so. Kind of like fighting with a two year old who hasn't learned what it means to be wrong and admit it. Instead they will yell louder and make a bigger scene to deflect the fact they are wrong.
 
Bottom line- Apple has focused on a very fickle mobile tech market. All it will take is for one company to come up with the next coolest thing and Apple is done. This is a very dangerous game they're playing. We've seen Sony do it with the Walkman. Apple could be next.

They need to focus on all aspects of their business- pro computers and mobile devices. Ignoring one for the other, which they've been doing, could be quite disastrous if one of those tanks. And trust me, there will be a day when someone bests Apple in the mobile device market. If they let the professional market down too, like they have been, they will be toast.
 
Bottom line- Apple has focused on a very fickle mobile tech market. All it will take is for one company to come up with the next coolest thing and Apple is done. This is a very dangerous game they're playing. We've seen Sony do it with the Walkman. Apple could be next.

They need to focus on all aspects of their business- pro computers and mobile devices. Ignoring one for the other, which they've been doing, could be quite disastrous if one of those tanks. And trust me, there will be a day when someone bests Apple in the mobile device market. If they let the professional market down too, like they have been, they will be toast.

And if my mother had wheels I'd be a wagon.

Apple is playing this "dangerous game" with iPods, Macs, iPhones, and iPads, iTunes, the App Store, and all the software associated with these products and services. They ARE focusing on all aspects of the consumer market. In fact, Apple *creates* consumer markets.

You're positioning Apple nearer and nearer to your imagined cliff purely because their level of success is so uncommon - and so inexplicable given conventional wisdom, that it must be so beyond the norm that it won't last due to what you think is its fragility.

The fact is that the competition has had years to beat Apple at their own game of mindshare-cool and product desirability. Some of the best companies in tech have tried, have thrown untold amounts of money at the problem, and have devoted lord knows how many hours of R&D. All of them for the past decade at least have failed. Apple continued to rise and is now enjoying a position that in terms of profitability and value is right behind Exxon-Mobil. Nearly every product Apple produces on the consumer market is pulling in substantial profit for Apple. After all this time, all this opportunity, and the competition *still* hasn't figured it out.

Can they (as a group or singly) ever figure it out and *then* complete the doubly difficult task of implementing Apple-like strategies that reflect this competition's own awesome, avant-garde identity and vision?

There is no way, ZERO way in fact, anyone will best Apple without FIRST spending years creating an entire ecosystem to support the final product or group of products. The iPhone isn't just a hot feature phone that exists in a vacuum, appearing from nothing. It is part of an ecosystem of products that took Apple years to develop - to the level where it's currently untouchable and so far ahead of everyone else it's almost mind-bowing. This isn't a Sony Walkman situation. Sony on their best day couldn't pull off what Apple has in so many sectors of the tech industry - from computers to mobile devices to software. Apple is so penetrated and entrenched in key areas - not just mobile - that any competitor must FIRST master every other area Apple has already mastered - computers (controlling the whole widget), mobile devices, software, media distribution vehicles - App Store, music store, media in its totality - in order to pull off a decisive and lasting win over Apple in only a single area.

You won't see this anytime soon.

So we can continue with absurd statements like "one day Apple will fail" or other obvious baloney. One day Apple will be bested (somehow) and they'll be "toast." Sure, why not. One day Microsoft will fail as well (given recent events that day might come sooner than we might think!) And one day the sun will turn into a red giant, expanding beyond the orbit of earth, burning it to a cinder. But arguing these points as if they are clear and imminent dangers now is completely absurd.

Apple has tapped in to exactly what drives customers to stand in long lines in rain or shine. Apparently, tapping into consumers' psyches in that manner and to that extent is exceedingly difficult to accomplish - yet Apple has and continues to make it look easy. At this point it looks like Apple's formula is for whatever reason unknowable and un-implementable by anyone other than the kind of people that work at Apple. Everyone else has had years to match it. Hasn't happened.

You'll need to find some other stick to wield against Apple. Wet noodles such as your post aren't going to cut it.
 
I heard a very interesting thing yesterday. I was talking to an old friend I hadn't seen in a while on the bus. We first went into how each other's day was. He spoke on how he had just come back from PC World because his laptop was "****ed". I asked him details on what he thought was wrong and his response was something like "I dunno, it's just ****ed. PC World said they'd fix it tho."

Later in our conversation, he spotted my iPhone and said he was saving for an iPod Touch. The first thing he asked about my iPhone was "Have you jailbroken it?" I replied that I hadn't because I felt at the moment there was no need for me to do so. He said that he was going to instantly Jailbreak his iPod Touch because it meant more customisation of his device. He didn't even know that Jailbreaking can give you apps for free, and when I told him he declared he didn't care much about that because apps were cheap anyway.

Before then, due to the lack of people I knew with touch based iDevices, I took the word off everyone that only 'nerds' were into jailbreaking their devices. But it was clear to see that my mate Sam had not turned into a nerd in the time I hadn't seen him, due to the fact that he had no idea what was wrong with his PC. It was just '****ed'.

Now having seen it with my own eyes, it is not just nerds who jailbreak. I often thought that the 'Post Your Jailbroken Home Screen' thread was suspiciously huge. With the Windows Phone 7 sales killing iPhone sales here in Britain (not that the iPhone has done amazingly well here anyway), all it will take is a more customisable version of the iPod Touch to begin a vast decline in Apple sales.

So, anyone who thinks only nerds jailbreak, you're talking utter rubbish.
 
all it will take is a more customisable version of the iPod Touch to begin a vast decline in Apple sales.

Uh-huh. Keep dreaming. But by all means, keep the dream alive. You might be right in a decade. At this point your hypothetical company that can pull that off against Apple's ecosystem and completely-differentiated suite of products is still a unicorn. Doesn't exist.

It'll take a helluva lot more than that. It's not about customization. The vast majority of consumers don't customize anything beyond wallpaper and a case. It's all about the unique User Experience that comes with Apple products. Then there's the panache, the "cool" factor to overcome, etc. The iPod isn't just an iPod. The iPhone isn't just an iPhone. Apple products are much more than tech. They've risen to the level of lifestyle icons. This is way beyond "features." Something folks like Acer and the also-rans don't quite get. It's not about cramming a device full of features. Half the battle is how the consumer feels while using your device. If you can tap into that you're golden. It's very, very difficult to pull off. Unless you work in Cupertino.

What *is* this "more customizable version" of the iPod Touch, exactly? Haven't others already tried this and failed? Who exactly will come up with one? And where will their ecosystem be? You can't just come up with a device these days that lacks a strong, robust software/services ecosystem. Apple pulled that off with iPod/iTunes in 2001. We're way past that now. And why the iPod Touch as your example? Apple has chewed up and spat out the media-player market. It's done. What's a Zune?? No room for anyone else to do anything without turning their device into a smartphone - in which case they'll end up competing against the iPhone. Which is nearly as difficult a task, unless you flood the market with all manner of junk - not having what it takes to come up with an "iPhone-Killer." Just ask Eric T. Mole.

This is the same reason Microsoft Stores, in all that company's lame attempts to copy the Apple experience *without* any Apple-like products, are seeing next to no traffic. Still.

By the way:

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-unlocking-windows-phone-7-could-brick-your-phone

I had to to do a double-take to make sure it was MS saying that and not Apple.
 
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Bottom line- Apple has focused on a very fickle mobile tech market. All it will take is for one company to come up with the next coolest thing and Apple is done. This is a very dangerous game they're playing. We've seen Sony do it with the Walkman. Apple could be next.
Agree, and with the walled garden approach, it's a double edged sword. In some respects it offers a very safe marketplace, but on the otherside, you have one company dictating its morals and its perspective of what it believes is right or wrong. I have no say. On the complete opposite you have the android marketplace, which is a bit chaotic, and runs the risk of malware. I think a company that offers light touch to reviewing apps, but provides a rich and easy development platform could unseat apple.

They need to focus on all aspects of their business- pro computers and mobile devices. Ignoring one for the other, which they've been doing, could be quite disastrous if one of those tanks. And trust me, there will be a day when someone bests Apple in the mobile device market. If they let the professional market down too, like they have been, they will be toast.
Here in lies the problem, apple is completely focused on the consumer segment that they're leaving the "pro" market to whither. Just look at the update cycle for the Mac Pro, and the so called pro apps. While its understandable that they're dropped the xserve (not selling) they seem to be putting their attention towards the consumer.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8C148)

Putting attention toward the consumer market (a huge segment) isn't a problem when it gets you $20 billion quarters. Duh.
 
And if my mother had wheels I'd be a wagon.

Apple is playing this "dangerous game" with iPods, Macs, iPhones, and iPads, iTunes, the App Store, and all the software associated with these products and services. They ARE focusing on all aspects of the consumer market. In fact, Apple *creates* consumer markets.

You're positioning Apple nearer and nearer to your imagined cliff purely because their level of success is so uncommon - and so inexplicable given conventional wisdom, that it must be so beyond the norm that it won't last due to what you think is its fragility.

The fact is that the competition has had years to beat Apple at their own game of mindshare-cool and product desirability. Some of the best companies in tech have tried, have thrown untold amounts of money at the problem, and have devoted lord knows how many hours of R&D. All of them for the past decade at least have failed. Apple continued to rise and is now enjoying a position that in terms of profitability and value is right behind Exxon-Mobil. Nearly every product Apple produces on the consumer market is pulling in substantial profit for Apple. After all this time, all this opportunity, and the competition *still* hasn't figured it out.

Can they (as a group or singly) ever figure it out and *then* complete the doubly difficult task of implementing Apple-like strategies that reflect this competition's own awesome, avant-garde identity and vision?

There is no way, ZERO way in fact, anyone will best Apple without FIRST spending years creating an entire ecosystem to support the final product or group of products. The iPhone isn't just a hot feature phone that exists in a vacuum, appearing from nothing. It is part of an ecosystem of products that took Apple years to develop - to the level where it's currently untouchable and so far ahead of everyone else it's almost mind-bowing. This isn't a Sony Walkman situation. Sony on their best day couldn't pull off what Apple has in so many sectors of the tech industry - from computers to mobile devices to software. Apple is so penetrated and entrenched in key areas - not just mobile - that any competitor must FIRST master every other area Apple has already mastered - computers (controlling the whole widget), mobile devices, software, media distribution vehicles - App Store, music store, media in its totality - in order to pull off a decisive and lasting win over Apple in only a single area.

You won't see this anytime soon.

So we can continue with absurd statements like "one day Apple will fail" or other obvious baloney. One day Apple will be bested (somehow) and they'll be "toast." Sure, why not. One day Microsoft will fail as well (given recent events that day might come sooner than we might think!) And one day the sun will turn into a red giant, expanding beyond the orbit of earth, burning it to a cinder. But arguing these points as if they are clear and imminent dangers now is completely absurd.

Apple has tapped in to exactly what drives customers to stand in long lines in rain or shine. Apparently, tapping into consumers' psyches in that manner and to that extent is exceedingly difficult to accomplish - yet Apple has and continues to make it look easy. At this point it looks like Apple's formula is for whatever reason unknowable and un-implementable by anyone other than the kind of people that work at Apple. Everyone else has had years to match it. Hasn't happened.

You'll need to find some other stick to wield against Apple. Wet noodles such as your post aren't going to cut it.

WTF? Who said I want Apple to fail? I was merely critiquing them, and it was a fair critique. You should know that no company is indestructible.

Oh wait, I forgot- you're the poster who thinks Apple can do no wrong. I'll stop bothering with you now.
 
Apple isn't "losing" the market. The normal iPhone demographic is opting for iPads for Christmas gifts. Come new year, you will see iPhone 4's sell like hotcakes and then you will see the highest sales ever with the release of the Verizon phone.
 
Apple isn't "losing" the market. The normal iPhone demographic is opting for iPads for Christmas gifts. Come new year, you will see iPhone 4's sell like hotcakes and then you will see the highest sales ever with the release of the Verizon phone.
Apple only held the market when they were the only player in town. Now you have Android with multiple handsets, and the emergence of Windows Phone 7 that will pull some of the windows crowd back. The arena is getting crowded now and Apple will have to learn to share the pie. They will eventually get beat out by Android. Unless the iPhone is opened up to all the carriers and they have different flavors of the iPhone at once they will not be in the lead.
 
Apple only held the market when they were the only player in town. Now you have Android with multiple handsets, and the emergence of Windows Phone 7 that will pull some of the windows crowd back. The arena is getting crowded now and Apple will have to learn to share the pie. They will eventually get beat out by Android. Unless the iPhone is opened up to all the carriers and they have different flavors of the iPhone at once they will not be in the lead.

Think you need to be clearer, do you mean in the USA ? it's not the whole market you know :)

iPhone's been on multiple carriers in Europe for some time now and our biggest seller is still Nokia. Windows Phone 7 has come and done insanely well, not seen figures in the USA but I don't believe it's done as well (from lack of stories). Fact is, iPhone was never 'the only player in town'.
 
Think you need to be clearer, do you mean in the USA ? it's not the whole market you know :)

iPhone's been on multiple carriers in Europe for some time now and our biggest seller is still Nokia. Windows Phone 7 has come and done insanely well, not seen figures in the USA but I don't believe it's done as well (from lack of stories). Fact is, iPhone was never 'the only player in town'.
I am talking about the smart phone market not cheap flip phone sales. The iPhone changed what people want in a phone. Now they have more choices in that market. I consider the main players in the smart phone market to be Apple, Android, RIM, and now Windows Phone 7. I don't really consider Nokia in that category.
 
I am talking about the smart phone market not cheap flip phone sales. The iPhone changed what people want in a phone. Now they have more choices in that market. I consider the main players in the smart phone market to be Apple, Android, RIM, and now Windows Phone 7. I don't really consider Nokia in that category.

What a stupid thing to say... seeing as Nokia has the largest SMARTPHONE market of all of them!
 
Im not sure they are relevant in the US anymore. I think HTC sells more handsets.

So to actually answer my original question, your only talking about the US, and to re-iterate my point, the USA is not reflective nor is it considered the largest market in the world, so it's irrelevant.

In Europe it's shown that open to all carriers does not mean it will be more successful.

Two different markets and that's what Apple doesn't realise.

Edit: Also Nokia doesn't just make 'cheap flip phones' infact I'm not sure it makes any flip phones.... check out the N8, it's camera and functions put the iPhone to shame.
 
I like several smart phones over the iPhone, but I don't think iPhone is in any danger of going downhill very fast. It would take competitor companies putting out very popular, high profile models for a long time. I don't think this will happen since Apple knows how to market their iPhone better than others do with their phones.

Even if Apple loses market share, they will make a ton of money in a field they were not previously in not many years ago. Some could argue that iPhone (along with iPod/iTunes) saved Apple and their bottom line.
 
Just wait till the iPhone lands on Verizon the android phone sales will plummet and the market share will double.
 
Just wait till the iPhone lands on Verizon the android phone sales will plummet and the market share will double.

I think with WSJ confirming the Verizon-Apple contract a couple of months ago and sites like this promoting the venture in a favorable light, it will greatly help iPhone sales.

However, I don't think just changing from ATT to Verizon will double market share. Where Apple is right now is pretty good and I would be happy if Apple got a few percentage points in increase with next month's expected agreement. This will equate to millions more on the balance sheet.
 
It'll take a helluva lot more than that. It's not about customization. The vast majority of consumers don't customize anything beyond wallpaper and a case. It's all about the unique User Experience that comes with Apple products.

Uh... that's only because, on a mac, there's not much more you can customize. On a PC, the vast majority of users DO customize things, such as their theme color, log in screen, and even in some instances, the GUI itself. Heck, even Windows Phone 7 has more customizable visual options than iOS!
 
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