Is Apple ripping us off with the Macbook Pro?

[wschutz]

That may be the price today for a bare CPU, but it doesn't quite work that way. 🙂

Apple like all PC makers buys in bulk with a contract to the chip maker on a specific date.

So on that specific date they set a 'deal' and set purchase price per chip with intel for their chips.

At that date, prices were different among the different chips.

So those prices are a fixed cost for Apple until the contract is up and they can negotiate / order a new supply contract with Intel.

Apple tries to keep that higher price for the faster CPU as long as possible otherwise they are losing money from what they paid for them.

That ain't matter... the market drives the prices, not the companies nor Apple.
When something doesn't sell... the manufacturer usually reduces the price, otherwise it risks its own production as no one will want to buy it.

However... Apple... is different... and the consumer base of this company is extremely loyal; so loyal that it doesn't care about average market price...
Like you say, Apple tries to get as much money as they can. Apple knows people will keep on buying its products (just read this all the waiting threads... there are many people who gave up, and bought a laptop... from Apple, even though they knew it was outdated, but the point was getting a laptop from Apple).

I'm a prospective Apple's customer, but I ain't idiot... and I want my money to be worth it and if any company wants to count my money towards its quarterly profit report, then, I require some things.
Given the market nowadays, I agree it's a rip off to get any laptop from Apple (I don't know about the other products as I'm not interested as of now). Hence, I'm not buying anything... but it's not just that... I'm tired of waiting and I know that Apple will just do a small upgrade and justify it with a nice ad but the price will remain the same. This week is the last I will keep on waiting, after that... no more Apple for one year 🙂

That's how a customer should react... I like the design from Apple, it's pretty good (as well as the os performance); but I'm not stupid, and I'm more than willing to switch back to Windows for not just a couple of hundreds, in this case... it's much more than that 😉
Apple knows that, but Apple sometimes thinks that customer base will buy anything regardless of whatever. I'm not one of those 😀

 

[JJC80]

Elitebooks and Thinkpads look great and are some of the best designed windows laptops available. I know they are not shiny like Apples, but to say they are ugly is a bit bias.

Thinkpads are probably the only other PC laptop that has a close cult following as do Apple machines.

The thinkpad really hasn't changed that much aesthetically speaking since it's inception. It was originally modeled after a Japanese lunch box and has kept the relative same design touches and appearance since forever. All the rest of the windows laptop world are bleh.

 

[CP123]

Why do people keep buying Macs if they're constantly belly-aching about getting ripped off?

There are Hyundais that have similar specs to BMWs and Mercedes that sell at twice the price. Are BMW and Mercedes rip-offs too? Not to the people who buy them and care about more than trunk space or horsepower.

If you care about specs and nothing else, then Apple is NOT the brand for you. It's not brain surgery. Go buy a Win7 computer and be happy, never to whine on the internet ever again.

I for one prefer OS X, and I love the style of Apple's machines. I don't care quite as much that they don't have the bleeding-edge specs as much as I do that they're more-than-good-enough specs in a case that gives a very satisfying user experience.

If you're just looking objectively, Apple probably isn't worth it. If you're considering the entire user experience, i.e. the synergy of hardware, OS, software, and peripherals, then for many Apple is worth it.

But if it's not, stop whining and vote with your wallet.

Well said.

 

[kdum8]

So really it is best summed up as so:

whine whine whine, blog blog blog, whine whine whine, soapbox soapbox soapbox, i love apple.

Perhaps the funniest and most accurate piece of social commetary about macrumors users I have ever heard. Nice.

Ha ha Spock. Great reply

 

[Max(IT)]

Wirelessly posted (iPod Touch 2G 8GB: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

After doing a little Internet research, I found out that the Intel Core 2 Duo T9900 (3.06ghz) costs the same ($530) as the T9800 (2.93ghz). They're both 35W TDP, same cache, and everything! Except processor speed of course. Apple charges $302 for something they bought at the same price.

But oh well. That won't stop me from getting their top of the line MacBook Pro that is supposedly coming out soon...

Except that there isn't any MBP using 2.93 Ghz Core2Duo, so they charge for going from 2.8 to 3.06 Ghz.
BTW now price of T9600, T9800 and T9900 is the same.

Do you think Apple is manufacturing computers today from their original bulk lot purchase?

Doubtful.

True, but they set the price quite a lot of time ago

 

[mansanas]

Apple is the Nike of the computer world.
I buy Apple products for the same reason I buy Nike shoes.

I know they are overpriced but the quality is top notch, and they are very popular, "hip" and "cool".

plain and simple.

 

[mark28]

Apple is the Nike of the computer world.
I buy Apple products for the same reason I buy Nike shoes.

I know they are overpriced but the quality is top notch, and they are very popular, "hip" and "cool".

plain and simple.

top quality laptops? They can't even keep the components cool 😀

If it's so quality, they should give 2 years warranty standard like Asus does, or is Apple not so confident in their own laptops. 🙄

 

[kdum8]

Apple is the Nike of the computer world.
I buy Apple products for the same reason I buy Nike shoes.

I know they are overpriced but the quality is top notch, and they are very popular, "hip" and "cool".

plain and simple.

Apple may be good but Nike? They make ok shoes. Very few serious runners in my club use Nike training shoes..

 

[mansanas]

top quality laptops? They can't even keep the components cool 😀

If it's so quality, they should give 2 years warranty standard like Asus does, or is Apple not so confident in their own laptops. 🙄

why isnt honda or toyota offering 10 year warranties like hyundai does?
because the dont need to, like apple, they already have a large consumer base and don't need to bend over backwards to attract buyers.
dont get me wrong i'd love for apple to drop their prices and offer 5 year warranties, but thats life. lets hope for more competition for apple, especially their mbp and iphone lines. not just price and quality but marketing.

Apple may be good but Nike? They make ok shoes. Very few serious runners in my club use Nike training shoes..

nike's make the best basketball shoes by far. i love my kobe 4s.

 

[xi mezmerize ix]

The MBP is in a smaller market than pc laptops, so apple makes less of them. Lower supply with a rising demand makes higher prices. apple has to turn a profit, every business does. ur also paying for a lot of other things: security, reliability, longevity, intuitive design, security, portability, and most of all, security. plus you can run a mac as a pc. you cant run mac on a pc...legally.

 

[sammich]

The MBP is in a smaller market than pc laptops, so apple makes less of them. Lower supply with a rising demand makes higher prices. apple has to turn a profit, every business does. ur also paying for a lot of other things: security, reliability, longevity, intuitive design, security, portability, and most of all, security. plus you can run a mac as a pc. you cant run mac on a pc...legally.

Time to fix things up:

The MBP in the same market as pc laptops, because the MBP is a PC. It's just at the upper end of the market.

Apple makes less MBP's because not everyone can afford an upper end item. It wouldn't be upper end if everyone had one.

Apple's prices have been coming down since they first started selling laptops. My first laptop was a Titanium PowerBook, it was the top range one, it was 5k. Second laptop was the Powerbook 12", bottom end and 4k. Current laptop is the 17" MBP, top top end, it was 4.5k with upgrades. The current 17" i7 is 3k. The Apple laptops these days are insanely cheap compared to what I've been paying.

Apple's prices never change with supply and demand. They are set for the duration of the life of that product.

Apple does turn a profit, by selling good products that are priced competitively.

 

[iverson76]

Here's what a user posted here about the 15" HP Envy laptop they purchased.



Honestly, I like the Sony Vaio's a lot better, since the Vaio's actually top or atleast match Apple in terms of build quality.

The Z series is too expensive.

They really can't justify it.

The Sony Vaio's F series kick apple's asses in terms of features, and price.

The F Series gives you a blu ray burner, an i7 processor, and a cutting edge 1GB dedicated GPU for cheaper than it costs to buy a 13 inch MBP!!!

I'm picking one myself with the next pay check so I'm pumped.

Or if you want something cheaper, you can get a NW series laptop with awesome specs for under $900!

And all the Vaio's have excellent build quality.

Given how outdated the MBPs specs are by comparison, I'm wondering how much you guys think the 15 inch $2500 Macbook Pro laptop actually costs Apple to manufacture??

Apples are too expensive yes but the Sony Vaio is the #1 reason why i'm switching over to a Mac. LOL

I've had nothing but problems with their laptops (and i'm not talking about the $500 multi-colored ones at Best Buy. I had two that were close to $2000 each and both were lemons that didn't last 2 years. I'm not a power user or a gamer. We kept the systems clean and always handled it carefully but those Vaio's are awful. Fans kept failing, touchpad broke twice, the keyboard broke, backlit lcd display went out, batteries were cycled correctly but dropped about 70% after year 1, and all of their laptops get about 400 degrees on your lap after 20 minutes of use, i could go on and on.

I bought the Vaios because the specs were amazing for both time periods (2006 and 2008) but man was I fooled. Please buy an extended warranty.

 

[scaredpoet]

I'm a prospective Apple's customer, but I ain't idiot... and I want my money to be worth it and if any company wants to count my money towards its quarterly profit report, then, I require some things.

I require some things too. I require my computer to work reliably, to have secure software, to not have to make me worry about whether my antivirus software is up to date. I also find it useful when my computer runs an OS that has a lot of built in features that are useful to me instead of being filled with bloatware that I have to spend time removing, then adding the stuff I actually want.

And it's REALLY useful and refreshing to not have to spend an 18 hour workday (10 of which is unpaid because I'm salaried, so that costs me actual money) cleaning out the malware someone put on their workstation while surfing facebook. I had to do this recently on a Windows machine. I wasn't happy, and every extra hour I spent cleaning that mess up I was more and more greatful for my Macs.

The market is driving the pricing for Apple products. If the market created a suitable alternative, people wouldn't "put up" with the "premium" pricing. Build me a computer that won't blue screen, won't fall apart before I'm ready to buy a new one, won't require me to spend money every year to buy the latest and greatest version of bloated, resource-hogging security software, and won't cause me to spend time cleaning up issues that could be better spent actually working or relaxing, and I'd definitely buy it.

Oh wait! That's a mac. And I've ALREADY bought it.

Until there's a truly equal, cheaper alternative, people will continue to buy macs. And the "premium" pricing will continue to be just a myth.

Given the market nowadays, I agree it's a rip off to get any laptop from Apple (I don't know about the other products as I'm not interested as of now).

If you look at this from the viewpoint that you must have the latest, the greatest, the best, the biggest, the fastest... then yes, it is a rip off. However, you're ripping yourself off, and Apple just happens to be benefitting. When someone has a gambling addiction and throws their money away, they don't send the casino to therapy. They send the addict.

On the other hand, the reality is that people who've been using Macs long enough know that it's not worth it to ditch a 1-year-old mac because the new one has .15 GHz faster processing speed. If you a buy a mac, you keep it for 3, 4, maybe even 5 years or longer because it continues to do what you need it to do pretty well. Then, you sell it on eBay (because macs actually HAVE resale values, unlike PCs which are practically valueless after a year) and then upgrade.= for the next 3-5+ year cycle.


So yeah, if you're a specswhore, buy a PC. That's what the PC market is built around.

If however, you're more interested in whether the machine works and can do the work you want it to do, buy a Mac and don't worry about what's coming next or what Steve Jobs is announcing at the next press conference. Worry about what you need your computer to do, instead.

I like the design from Apple, it's pretty good (as well as the os performance); but I'm not stupid, and I'm more than willing to switch back to Windows for not just a couple of hundreds, in this case...

Then you do that. And good luck to you.

 

[miles01110]

So yeah, if you're a specswhore, buy a PC. That's what the consumer PC market is built around.

I don't disagree with the majority of your points, but the above correction was necessary. The corporate PC market is built around compliance with firmly entrenched software suites that only work on Windows. Plus it simply cannot be argued that Microsoft & PC manufacturer's enterprise support structure is inferior to Apple's, mainly because Apple doesn't really have one.

 

[xi mezmerize ix]

Time to fix things up:

The MBP in the same market as pc laptops, because the MBP is a PC. It's just at the upper end of the market.

Apple makes less MBP's because not everyone can afford an upper end item. It wouldn't be upper end if everyone had one.

Apple's prices have been coming down since they first started selling laptops. My first laptop was a Titanium PowerBook, it was the top range one, it was 5k. Second laptop was the Powerbook 12", bottom end and 4k. Current laptop is the 17" MBP, top top end, it was 4.5k with upgrades. The current 17" i7 is 3k. The Apple laptops these days are insanely cheap compared to what I've been paying.

Apple's prices never change with supply and demand. They are set for the duration of the life of that product.

Apple does turn a profit, by selling good products that are priced competitively.

Well what I meant by smaller market was less people buy macs than pc's. And I'm pretty sure everything in our economy is priced based on supply and demand...if no one bought a mac for a month the price would most definitely drop.

 

[CrackedButter]

On the other hand, the reality is that people who've been using Macs long enough know that it's not worth it to ditch a 1-year-old mac because the new one has .15 GHz faster processing speed. If you a buy a mac, you keep it for 3, 4, maybe even 5 years or longer because it continues to do what you need it to do pretty well. Then, you sell it on eBay (because macs actually HAVE resale values, unlike PCs which are practically valueless after a year) and then upgrade.= for the next 3-5+ year cycle.

So yeah, if you're a specswhore, buy a PC. That's what the PC market is built around.

If however, you're more interested in whether the machine works and can do the work you want it to do, buy a Mac and don't worry about what's coming next or what Steve Jobs is announcing at the next press conference. Worry about what you need your computer to do, instead.

I bought my mac laptop 3 years ago, the specs matter to me because in 3 years they have barely moved from the Dual Core 2Ghz I'm using now. I'm waiting for the next update to see if my possible next purchase has more value.

However I am open to more bells and whistles if Apple were to include them, IPS panels would be nice for example. It isn't just about processor speed even though I need to crunch through 20MB+ raw files constantly.

But they haven't included such things (still) and other upgrades that might make the purchase worthwhile are priced to a premium.

 

[autacraft]

Such an absurd initial posting and all I can think of when this sort of stupid comparison (based on prices!) is posted, is that it is one of simple green eyed jealousy.

Why oh why come on a Mac website, to pose such questions? WHYYYYY?

If you cant afford a mac, which will last you a long time and enable you to do great work and enjoy a great computing experience, then for god's sake stop wasting your life online, get a life! save up and perhaps 'experience' what mac is all about - get a second hand one even!

Its so bloody boring frankly. Im boring for even bothering to write this!

Yawn yawn yawn.

 

[CrackedButter]

Such an absurd initial posting and all I can think of when this sort of stupid comparison (based on prices!) is posted, is that it is one of simple green eyed jealousy.

Strawman argument.

 

[boostmiser]

It Works

Here is my thought. While I always admired Apple products, but it took me years to justify an Apple computer. I thought they were always too expensive for what you got (their profit margins are the highest in the industry). Over time, I've come to appreciate the fine details of their products. The engineering that goes into their products. The OS that is so much more stable that Windows. It's a complete package. So if you go purely by specs, then in some respects, yes, every Apple product is a rip-off to someone. But look at the entire package. It all just works.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Did they make any effort with the design to get it into a 1" thick case, or is it the usual laptop thickness that comes from just slapping off-the-shelf stuff together in a re-used laptop design?
Aluminum unibody casing?
Backlit keyboard?
Decent LED screen?
7-hour battery?
Large, multi-touch trackpad?
Mag-safe power w/ a power-brick that can be downsized if needed?
Ability to attend free in-store workshops for getting the most out of the system?
Ability to get free in-store tech support for the life of the system?
Option for virtually unlimited in-store personal training for $99/year?
OS X + iLife?

For some, nothing on the list above adds any value, which is fine.

For those that do find value in some of the things above, it decreases the difference in price between a Mac notebooks and the commodity notebooks that shuffle in and out of Best Buys on a regular basis.

So, I have a cheap commodity notebook, as well as an MBP. I had a couple of apps that I had to have Windows for... So, I bought one, and, I can answer your questions:

+
- It has a cheap plastic case - but, that doesn't bother me.
- Cooling is better than the MBP.
- Fast CPU.

-
- "Three hour" battery that lasts 1-1.5 hrs
- No backlit keyboard
- Annoying, off-center trackpad with very bad, noisy trackpad buttons
- Giant powerbrick
- The usual power plug that has yanked the laptop off the bed a few times
- Cheap, lousy "free" extra software-adware that came pre-installed
- Cheap, integrated Intel graphics - but, that is OK, I don't play games


Nobody made me buy it, and, I knew what I was getting, so it wasn't a rip-off-- except for the trackpad buttons.


Yes, Macs are too expensive - they prevent people who would like to buy them from buying them. But, besides the high pricing, my biggest gripe is that Apple pushes glossy screens. The glossy screens may be Apple's artistic statement, since they look cool when you first unbox the system. But, really, they should make antiglare the default and stop charging extra. My second biggest gripe is cooling. Apple needs more aggressive cooling. I'm guessing they don't because Steve personally hates fan noise.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

After just 24 years, Microsoft came up with a stable version??? Uh, yeah, I seriously doubt it. I tried 1.0, 3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, there's really no reason to continue the pain and suffering.

Hey, I'm not pushing Windows, but, yes, it really is stable and much more secure. Of course, a lot of your insecure legacy pre-Visa Windows software won't install/run on it unless you pay extra for the protected XP environment, but security people consider that a feature.

 

[scaredpoet]

I don't disagree with the majority of your points, but the above correction was necessary. The corporate PC market is built around compliance with firmly entrenched software suites that only work on Windows.

If you're trying to justify your "correction," then the business area is not the one to make it in. Most businesses don't buy the latest and greatest for their workforces. They are going for mass quantities at the lowest prices, buying the lowest specs they can get away with. My work-issued PC? it's brand new, cost the company $400, and doesn't hold a candle to the Mac Mini parked next to it.

The exception is video editing and creative arts, or whem you r developing for specific tasks that require computing muscle. In that case, they ARE buying heavily spec'd PCs.... that is, if they arent' buying Macs.

Plus it simply cannot be argued that Microsoft & PC manufacturer's enterprise support structure is inferior to Apple's, mainly because Apple doesn't really have one.

Another incorrect statement. Apple does have Enterprise, government, and higher ed support divisions. I deal with them regularly... I've even been visited personally by a systems engineer and our regional account manager, and yet we buy far less Macs than we do Dell or HP products.

 

[Lola M]

Here is my thought. While I always admired Apple products, but it took me years to justify an Apple computer. I thought they were always too expensive for what you got (their profit margins are the highest in the industry). Over time, I've come to appreciate the fine details of their products. The engineering that goes into their products. The OS that is so much more stable that Windows. It's a complete package. So if you go purely by specs, then in some respects, yes, every Apple product is a rip-off to someone. But look at the entire package. It all just works.

I agree! This is one brand for which I am parting with my money with a smile on my face. You get what you pay for. Yea, there are much cheaper Windows comparables than Macs but there is just something about Apple. Sorry Manolo Blahnik, I love you but I love Apple more!

 

[pdjudd]

The PC market sells computers much like they sell cars - the vast majority of them are small to midsized non luxury models that are entry level and are purchases as cheaply as possible. However there are companies like BMW, Ferarri, and so on that simply do not play in that market and refuse to follow that business model - every car they sell is high end and can be priced to ridiculous extremes. Simply selling a product at a higher cost than other similar products does not necessarily make one "overpriced"

Also Apple is not selling computers like Dell or HP are - Apple sells an integrated system with an OS that they have to subsidize costs on. PC makers in general spend very little money to license another companies OS - its an entirely different strategy.

Compare it to video game consoles - most of which is an integrated product (Custom OS and Custom hardware) and yet they all have widely different prices - Sony for example sells the most expensive system of them all. Now is Sony ripping you off despite the fact that inferior systems like the Wii outsell everybody? Hardly. Each system sells on it's own merits based on what customers wants Price is largely a red herring though and doesn't tell a complete story.

 

[Ramphex]

is the winter cold?