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I think the point, or at least the original point, of this thread though is that some (many?) people think that Apple is compromising a 20+ year involvement w/professional users in order to get deep into the consumer electronics and media distribution business. If everyone felt Apple could do both equally well I'm sure this thread wouldn't exist but there are people that feel that Apple can't do both equally well and is favoring the 'i' users over the 'pro' users.


Lethal


Hopefully they invent a Mac Pro powerfully enough that it can compute, you know, the "signature" setting in the forum control panel, so you don't have to type it manually every time.

And no, I don't want to hear your usenet stories about how you always had to sign your posts.
 
For what it's worth, Sony still sells a ton of pro level gear and they're loved in the video world. Nobody's looking to them as the bringers of the future like RED or ARRI, but many, many people buy, use, and love their advanced video cameras, decks, switchers, broadcast monitors, etc.

I have a feeling this mass-market perception everybody is harping on about is a lot less important than you think it is.

It may very well be possible for  to maintain a healthy pro market without being seen as the market leader.

Of course it's possible.

But it doesn't look like Apple takes advantage of these possibilities.

It takes Apple too long to update the Mac Pro, and it offers too few options like graphics cards.
 
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As long as Apple gadgets are making the big bucks, I think Apple will keep making the computers that we want/need including the Mac Pro.
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Not necessarily. Especially if one group is highly profitable, and the other isn't making enough money to suit Apple (margins drop, or worse - none at all).

They've been drifting away from hard core computer design, and towards portable gadgets. They even changed the name of the company from Apple Computer to Apple. I know, this can be argued that it only expands the company's entry into newer areas, but given decline in frequency of release cycles, bugs increasing, and fewer features; particularly hardware, it appears that that's not really the case IMO.

Simply put, the real money is in the portable device market, and that's where they're concentrating their efforts given recent history. It's a mistake IMO, as they need to have a full line of products (and easy integration between them), but their portable devices can be used with other OS's when needed (i.e. use Windows to download iTunes content, if the device is unable to download on it's own). It could hurt the development of their OS development (full or portable versions, as an iPad isn't suited for software development, keyboard adapter or not :eek: :p).
 
Hopefully they invent a Mac Pro powerfully enough that it can compute, you know, the "signature" setting in the forum control panel, so you don't have to type it manually every time.

And no, I don't want to hear your usenet stories about how you always had to sign your posts.

Well, that was unnecessarily rude and completely uncalled for.... Why do you feel the need to personally insult someone on an internet forum, when they have done nothing to you, and was just expressing their opinion?
 
Simply put, the real money is in the portable device market, and that's where they're concentrating their efforts given recent history. It's a mistake IMO, as they need to have a full line of products.

The backbone of Apple has always been its computers and that is unlikely to change. Besides the iphone, the rest are just nice to have items and I don't see any of them as a replacements for their computer systems. You can't do any serious job related work on tiny screens and even there is only so much you can do on the ipad at this point and it was not designed for that market.

You can't always tell what direction the portable device market is going. Another manufacture may come along with a revolutionary device that everybody runs too so Apple may have to rely on its other markets as well.

Steve Jobs will not be here forever and after seeing what happened after he left and came back it would not be likely to rely entirely on their igadget line to bring in all their money. In other words to put all your eggs in one basket and that includes putting all bets just on their computer line alone. You constantly must look at different markets in case one drys up or fails you still have another market that still is selling.
 
Then why did Apple release more computer models more frequently when it wasn't in the gadget market?

Intel processors. Gotta wait for Intel.

More computer models?
I've been with Apple since the early 90's. I don't recall more computer models except during the good ol' Mac clone days.
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Intel processors. Gotta wait for Intel.

There are a lot of Intel processors available if Apple wanted to expand its computer product line. Far more than there ever were PPC cpus. And product range doesn't have to depend on the cpu. There could be different I/O or graphics options. But that would violate the Steve Jobs doctrine: Don't Confuse Your Customers With Choices.

More computer models?
I've been with Apple since the early 90's. I don't recall more computer models except during the good ol' Mac clone days.

In the early to mid '90s there were so many models you needed a scorecard to keep track. Which was generally seen as a bad thing, but at least there was a lot of activity.
 
Thanks for the link.

It's really bad, but it's also only one product (albiet a rather expensive one). And it may not be over yet. Hopefully Mr. Leitner will be taken care of on orders directly from Sony Japan rather than left up to the US Support personel (as well as others experiencing this issue).

Unfortunately, no company has a perfect track record in terms of support like this, and it's getting rather bad, and very quickly. I look at it as defect rates, and current acceptable rates are ~10 - 13%. :eek: Way too high IMO. :mad:
 
There are a lot of Intel processors available if Apple wanted to expand its computer product line. Far more than there ever were PPC cpus. And product range doesn't have to depend on the cpu. There could be different I/O or graphics options. But that would violate the Steve Jobs doctrine: Don't Confuse Your Customers With Choices.

In the early to mid '90s there were so many models you needed a scorecard to keep track. Which was generally seen as a bad thing, but at least there was a lot of activity.

This. The financial success of  shows that popular dogma isn't always right:

Open doesn't always equal a better experience. More choices aren't great for everybody. More isn't better. "Does everything, but not well" is not a feature.

Now, while a lot of creative types are really into computer tech and want better graphics cards, etc., a lot actually simply don't care. This is a computer enthusiast forum, so it's easy to lose sight of the fact that a lot of people actually don't care about the things we want.

Hence why devices that don't appeal to us, like say, an iPad, can be a success anyway.

The technorati (or digirati, if you prefer) can be awfully blind to how different the needs of "regular people" are.
 
Today you may need to cc something to rec601, rec709, xvYCC or DCI. It doesn't sound very economical that you'll have to buy own monitor to every color space.
But that's how it's done at many places. You have an SD broadcast monitor, an HD broadcast monitor (many people still swear by HD CRTs), and a high quality digital projector if you handle things for theatrical. It's not just different monitors for different color spaces but also for the different characteristics of the different standards. I mean, Movie X projected on a theater screen will look different than Movie X shown on an HDTV which will look different than Movie X on an SDTV w/pulldown added. You might not produce a different grade for each standard but you at least need to watch it on monitor that properly displays the standard you are delivering to so you can make sure there are no problems.

Not everyone works w/monster budgets though so then you have to figure out what is the 'good enough' method that fits your budget and your clients budgets. There is convergence happening in the market place though. For example, there are some HD broadcast monitors that have very good, very accurate handling of SD images.


Getting back to the more general topic of the thread for a second, Adobe and Avid have some sweet stuff going on at NAB this year and Apple really needs to show off something impressive w/the ProApps relatively soon if they want to show they are still serious about competing in that arena, IMO.


Lethal
 
New Mac Pros or FCS at NAB?

Getting back to the more general topic of the thread for a second, Adobe and Avid have some sweet stuff going on at NAB this year and Apple really needs to show off something impressive w/the ProApps relatively soon if they want to show they are still serious about competing in that arena, IMO.

Lethal

Rumors were circulating today that there will be an Apple event at NAB on Wednesday. Ah well, it looks like it was yet another bogus tease:
http://9to5mac.com/Apple-NAB-2010-Final-Cut-Pro-4-894598534

Would be nice though. I certainly could use a new Mac Pro, and a Final Cut Studio update to go with it would be even sweeter. Where better than NAB for such an announcement? Maybe next year.
 
There are a lot of Intel processors available if Apple wanted to expand its computer product line.

Intel has a bunch of market segmentation and "repackage stuff from 2 years ago" processors. The markget segmentation consists of gratuitous stuff like just crippling VT (or some other value add feature) to spaces that Apple doesn't play in the new EX server series ( limited to just 1U , very low volume servers seems unlikely Apple will ever touch that). The question would be more accurately posed as for the subset of platforms Apple wants to sell why aren't the more of the appropriate Intel processors used. In that context, there isn't much disconnection.

Apple is going to design a system and move to consideration of components. Not take a CPU package and wonder how to wrap a system around it. If design "top down" lots of components of a wide variety are going to get left out.

Frankly, happy Apple skips the gratuitous segmentation chips like lacking VT. Those are annoying.
 
So, if there would be an i-Gadget fraction and a pro-fraction fighting over control, the i-fraction would be much stronger now, based on the successes of their consumer products.

It isn't so much i-gaget vs. "pro" faction. Mac OS X has recently been rumored to have been stripped of resources to prop up iPhone OS 4.x work.
At present it is a "new product category launch" vs. "old reliable cash cows" split.

The Mac Pro is just even further in the back of the bus. This is indicative by the fact that Apple lets the iMac encroach into the $2000+ price segment. Apple's general "mac prices shall remain fixed over time" is a bad enough impact on unit sales. The Mac Pro doesn't even get the whole space. If allowed to overlap or just occupied the whole space the line would be better off.

The key internal battle is more about which prices range relegated to. The problem is that Mac Pro is on a pricing death spiral. A relatively slow one, but spiral none-the-less. If the Mac Pro sold more units it would bring in more money and therefore could get more resources. As it is the unit count is likely going down ( imagine $999 Mac mini servers helped ratchet that pace up slightly) overall ( or at least lower growth that the other Mac Platforms).

It is a spiral in part because workload necessities for many folks isn't increasing as fast the computational power is. So an iMac with perhaps a second non-glossy monitor will work for some folks ( even if doing some color, but have bounded I/O needs). They can use the monitor with the computer guts attached to it as a secondary monitor (windows with email, IM, Quick Ref manuals, etc. ) and primary look at the external one.


News like the firing of 30 software engineers working on the Final Cut Studio suite fit into this image.

Was the all software folks and were they working on the core elements of the program ?


Apple without its high end computers is just another company. It's that high quality reputation that Apple still has from their workstations and the operating system that backs up their iGadget sales.

Once the pro side is gone, Apple's cool will fade.

This is part of the inflated importance being placed on the "Pro tools". A recent poll found that 90% of high school kids were planning to buy an iPod as their MP3 player. I can assure you that mental process was not "Wow the folks who do the backroom editing/composting on the latest movie I saw used a Mac Pro, so therefore I'm going to buy an iPod". It was far more likely "The iPod is cool and I want one too".

If folks were buying Mac Pros primarily because there were "cool" to buy. First, not sure why looking downcast on the "consumer market". That is exactly what the consumer market is usually driven to high heights on. Second, that subset of folks were not the core market in the first place. With the pricing fixed and new alternatives showing up over time those folks will fade away over time. If chasing after the "its trendy I'll buy it" it is far more effective to do that at more affordable price levels then the Mac Pro sells at if successfully done.


I hope this is just a phase as I don't really want to buy a Windows machine and work on the ugly interfaces of the Windows applications.

If the Mac Pro is burning down to a core set of users that tend to keep machines longer and run the same software over longer periods of time it won't hurt much if apple goes to a 12-16 month renewal cycle. If the arrival rate of customers isn't that high, it is going to be hard to justifying higher renewal rates for the Mac Pro.

I suspect it hasn't helped scheduling that new MacBook Pros just came out of the chute. The Mac OS X 10.6.x updates they needed probably got higher priority in the development/QA queue than the Mac Pro ones. You'd think Apple could walk and chew gum at the same time. It has been pretty obvious over the last couple of years that they can't. Or perhaps more precisely won't because want to bank more money. So keep some of the development/deployment swim lanes understaffed so that are "lean".

The major refresh of Intel Xeons only come at an arrival rate of once as year. Not sure why folks would expect the Mac Pros to arrive any faster than that. So if the minimum is 12 months then really just a little over a month late. "Stuff happens" from time to time. 3-6 months late ... yeah could see doom-and-gloom. Prior to 12 months that is more impatience than a solid indicator of behavior/intent.

It would help tremendously if Apple was quite so super duper secretive and clue more high end budget item folks in with NDAs about future hardware. Even if the dates don't leak out the "don't worry its coming" leaks would settle folks down.
 
I've been with Apple since the early 90's. I don't recall more computer models except during the good ol' Mac clone days.
Maybe you should check this once in a while:
http://guides.macrumors.com/Buyer's_Guide_(time-ordered)
LCDs: Days Since Update 1107 (Avg = 230)
Mac Pro: Days Since Update 408 (Avg = 236)
MacBook Pro: last interval was 10 months, longest in this page's history
MacBook Air: Days Since Update 311 (Avg = 255)
MacBook: looks like this year will be first in 5 years, that MB has only one update

I think long interval between updates would be great, if there would be really something updated.
Last MBP "update" was expected; nothing changed:
1. none have eSata
2. no blu-ray
3. no matte screen for 13"
4. no expandability (=express card) in 13" & 15"
5. no usb3
6. no lightport
7. no additional fw
8. no 10G ethernet

Looks like AV pros keep chasing those 2008 models...

Eg. this is something new not for Macs:
http://decklink.com/products/ultrastudiopro/
 
Maybe you should check this once in a while:
http://guides.macrumors.com/Buyer's_Guide_(time-ordered)
LCDs: Days Since Update 1107 (Avg = 230)
Mac Pro: Days Since Update 408 (Avg = 236)
MacBook Pro: last interval was 10 months, longest in this page's history
MacBook Air: Days Since Update 311 (Avg = 255)
MacBook: looks like this year will be first in 5 years, that MB has only one update

I think long interval between updates would be great, if there would be really something updated.
Last MBP "update" was expected; nothing changed:
1. none have eSata
2. no blu-ray
3. no matte screen for 13"
4. no expandability (=express card) in 13" & 15"
5. no usb3
6. no lightport
7. no additional fw
8. no 10G ethernet

Looks like AV pros keep chasing those 2008 models...

Eg. this is something new not for Macs:
http://decklink.com/products/ultrastudiopro/

That’s got nothing to do with the number of computer models available right now.

Apple has 22 computer models available. There are 28 computer models if you include the 6 iPad models.

2.26GHz MacBook
2.4GHz 13” MacBook Pro
2.66GHz 13” MacBook Pro
2.4GHz 15” MacBook Pro
2.53GHz 15” MacBook Pro
2.66GHz 15” MacBook Pro
2.53GHz 17” MacBook Pro
1.86GHz MacBook Air
2.13GHz MacBook Air
2.26GHz Mac mini
2.53GHz Mac mini
2.53GHz Mac mini with Snow Leoparad Server
3.06GHz 21.5” iMac
3.06GHz 21.5” iMac
3.06GHz 27” iMac
2.66GHz Quad-Core 27” iMac
2.66GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
2.93GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
3.33GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
2.26GHz 8-Core Mac Pro
2.66GHz 8-Core Mac Pro
2.93GHz 8-Core Mac Pro
 
That’s got nothing to do with the number of computer models available right now.

Apple has 22 computer models available. There are 28 computer models if you include the 6 iPad models.

2.26GHz MacBook
2.4GHz 13” MacBook Pro
2.66GHz 13” MacBook Pro
2.4GHz 15” MacBook Pro
2.53GHz 15” MacBook Pro
2.66GHz 15” MacBook Pro
2.53GHz 17” MacBook Pro
1.86GHz MacBook Air
2.13GHz MacBook Air
2.26GHz Mac mini
2.53GHz Mac mini
2.53GHz Mac mini with Snow Leoparad Server
3.06GHz 21.5” iMac
3.06GHz 21.5” iMac
3.06GHz 27” iMac
2.66GHz Quad-Core 27” iMac
2.66GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
2.93GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
3.33GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
2.26GHz 8-Core Mac Pro
2.66GHz 8-Core Mac Pro
2.93GHz 8-Core Mac Pro

I disagree with calling the separate clockspeeds of the the MP different models. On the webstore it is listed just as 2 models with the speeds as CTO. That give you 18 instead of 22, but I'm just nitpicking :D

And as a whole I think the short answer to the question of this thread is no. Apple is not about making the best of anything "pro". The lack of updates to keep things competitive is enough to say that in my mind. Though to be fair I mostly pay attention to the audio side of things.
 
Ok.. back to the thread. For all intensive purposes the MacSlow line is and will eventually be EOL'ed.




What? OK.. MacSlows will NOT be terminated.... INSTEAD they will only be upgraded on a 20 month upgrade cycle with NO reductions in price.

(wait.. this is 'almost' the reality today...)


What? wha wha what?????????????????!!!!!!!!







How do you like those Apples?
 
It's all getting a bit late. With Sandy Bridge announced for release at the end of this year, by the time the new Mac Pros come out they will have 6 months before they are out of date.

Apple may be leading the gizmo market. But for creatives and power users - it looks like Apple have changed from innovators and leaders to embarrassed followers.

A sad day....MacPro turns into MacSlow
 
What? OK.. MacSlows will NOT be terminated.... INSTEAD they will only be upgraded on a 20 month upgrade cycle with NO reductions in price.
Like what they did to Xraid; for years no upgrades to hardware and price didn't follow others in market. In the end it was so outdated and overpriced that nobody bought it and they could terminate it by saying that "there's no demand in the market".

Only problem with MP is that if they don't release "OsX for PC", there's no other way to use OsX+FCS.

Oh well, other options keep coming, Lightworks was just open sourced...
 
I would get a Mac Pro if Autodesk ported 3D Studio Max to OS X. Until then, 3D Max runs fine under Bootcamp Windows on a new iMac. 3D Max cost me 2x more than my iMac.
 
Slightly different processor speeds don't count as different models. I see no more than nine models in your list.

Apple shows one model number for the MacBook: MC207LL/A
Apple shows two model numbers for the 13” MacBook Pro: MC374LL/A, MC375LL/A
Apple shows three model numbers for the 15” MacBook Pro: MC371LL/A, MC372LL/A, MC373LL/A
Apple shows one model number for the 17” MacBook Pro: MC024LL/A
Apple shows two model numbers for the MacBook Air: MC233LL/A, MC234LL/A
Apple shows four model numbers for the iMac: MB950LL/A, MC413LL/A, MB952LL/A, MB953LL/A
Apple shows three model numbers for the Mac mini: MC238LL/A, MC239LL/A, MC408LL/A
Apple shows two model numbers for the Mac Pro: MB871LL/A, MB535LL/A

Apple, Wikipedia, BestBuy, and Amazon among others show these as model numbers.
 
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