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Is Apple still serious about the professional market?
- Thread starter Onigiri
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They use ODM's to do the real work, and Supermicro is an ODM.
As is Intel, Hon Hai Precision, and a few others.What on earth!?
Adobe is far from perfect, but, they have owned After Effects since it mattered. Watch much TV? Yeah, that's a lot of After Effects work you see.
How do you make assets to stick in After Effects? Photoshop and Illustrator.
Hate Flash all you want, but it killed off .wmv and real and QT as legit web video formats.
I'm not a video editor per se, but I do use Premiere to assemble clips and mix audio and output stuff for .flv and dvd and all that. I used to use Final Cut Pro. Does not much matter to me since I don't really push either editor all that hard, but for most editing jobs Premiere is able to handle it. In some ways it could be preferable with its tight integration with those horrible demon apps After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator.
And Photoshop vs. Gimp. I dismiss that out of hand.
I use Linux for LAMP+svn dev servers. Linux is not and will not ever be a valid desktop operating system. Linux is awesome for what it is, but even most die hard Linux freaks realize that the desktop dominance dream is long over.
You know, after writing all that, I hate Adobe a lot less. My career has been spent using Adobe software to create billable work. In that sense, I need Adobe more than I need Apple.
Ditto. For creative professionals, Macs aren't much without Adobe.
Some here are suffering from delusions of grandeur.
And so is Steve. Pissing off Adobe over flash may adhere to his short term goals, but it would be bad news for the pro market if he also made the Mac Dev Team a "little less devoted" (similar to the team working on Office for Mac)
And so is Steve. Pissing off Adobe over flash may adhere to his short term goals, but it would be bad news for the pro market if he also made the Mac Dev Team a "little less devoted" (similar to the team working on Office for Mac)
It's already been that way for a long time.
There were Intel based Macs for over a year before there were Intel native Adobe apps.
I'm running 64-bit PhotoShop on my PC today.
This is a very interesting topic. I'm a Professional Music Producer and i've been contemplating on whether I should get a mac pro or just build a high end custom workstation. I know there is the option for me to build a hackintosh. But I really don't want to have to go through hassle of having kernel panics everytime I want to update the OS.
I've noticed that the Pro line has been lacking a little bit. I was hoping apple would upgrade the mac pros much more often. I really like the stability of OSX but i'm turned off by the fact that they don't have the latest specs, but seem to still charge as if they do.
I've noticed that the Pro line has been lacking a little bit. I was hoping apple would upgrade the mac pros much more often. I really like the stability of OSX but i'm turned off by the fact that they don't have the latest specs, but seem to still charge as if they do.
That's a bit of a generalisation. And it's wrong. There's more to print media than just newspapers and magazines (which admittedly aren't fairing the best at the moment).
Walk the street, go in shops, look on billboards. Every single sign, P.O.S. poster or piece of visual information is printed. Someone has to design it. That's not going to change.
Not a joke - just different in it's approach. It pisses over AE in certain situations. But yes, AE is the daddy.
i really don't get al those 'pro' connections..
pro = a fully loaded mac pro
pro = never a glossy screen
pro = never an imac
pro = want faster mac pros
pro = ...
pro = making money
a few years ago you could 'risk' and go out to buy the best hardware you could get. everybody went out to play in the booming economy... not today
pro = a fully loaded mac pro
pro = never a glossy screen
pro = never an imac
pro = want faster mac pros
pro = ...
pro = making money
a few years ago you could 'risk' and go out to buy the best hardware you could get. everybody went out to play in the booming economy... not today
Uh- no it isn't. Print media is far from dead. I'm in print media advertising, and it is still the best way to advertise. Web ads and TV ads are stupid, no one pays attention to them. Newspapers may be dying, but magazines are doing well, so are printed t-shirts- hello! Also, billboards, flyers, pamphlets and catalogs are not going away any time soon.
Talk about things you are knowledgeable of please.
Also, Adobe owns Dreamweaver and Flash. Last time I checked, those were web apps.
Sorry, it's just that I hear this Bull way too often.
Have you upgraded to Snow Leopard by any chance? Because when I upgraded I had problems too. After a fresh install, 3 months after everything runs fine.
Adobe's apps are NOT more stable on Windows. I use Photoshop everyday and I it crashes WAY more on Windows 7 then on Snow Leopard.
Last time I checked, i7s were consumer chips. You cannot throw a bunch of hardware together and call that a workstation. I'm talking about workstations.
You're comparing a tower to an AIO?
Fact is that professionals who run Adobe apps are still running Macs. And whenever I use Photoshop CS4 on a PC it crashes much more than it does on Snow Leopard or Leopard, even considering that the current Snow Leopard version is just a workaround. There is no proof that the Adobe suite runs more stable on a PC, when Adobe's apps have been historically known to run better on Macs.
I guess it's supposed to be an AIO, not an expandable machine.
I will when they will reflect on myself.
I'm in the market for buying a Mac Pro, and this discussion is fascinating. LTL,FTP.
Apple hasn't been known to be caught with its pants down very often. Just like the PowerPC/Intel switch, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have a professional image editor waiting in the wings, ready to go, and especially if they're expecting to take on Adobe head-to-head on the Flash issue.
There's very little in Photoshop that Apple hasn't already done, in some form or another. Even the higher-end functions, like process colour or anything to do with print design, could be re-implemented. They would likely just buy another smaller company that's already doing that work.
I don't think Apple is going to get out of the pro business any time soon. They may move less Macs than iPods, but the Macs still make up the bulk of their revenue. And when a company does buy a Mac Pro, they'll probably trick it out in order to try and get the longest life out of it.
Our unit has plunked down ~$10k on a number of occasions in the past few years getting Mac Pros with 24" screens and lots of RAM & HD space. So even if the laptops are selling 5x as many as the desktops, they're still generating equal revenue.
Apple hasn't been known to be caught with its pants down very often. Just like the PowerPC/Intel switch, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have a professional image editor waiting in the wings, ready to go, and especially if they're expecting to take on Adobe head-to-head on the Flash issue.
There's very little in Photoshop that Apple hasn't already done, in some form or another. Even the higher-end functions, like process colour or anything to do with print design, could be re-implemented. They would likely just buy another smaller company that's already doing that work.
I don't think Apple is going to get out of the pro business any time soon. They may move less Macs than iPods, but the Macs still make up the bulk of their revenue. And when a company does buy a Mac Pro, they'll probably trick it out in order to try and get the longest life out of it.
Our unit has plunked down ~$10k on a number of occasions in the past few years getting Mac Pros with 24" screens and lots of RAM & HD space. So even if the laptops are selling 5x as many as the desktops, they're still generating equal revenue.
Actually, hackintoshes are much more stable than you realize. It's gotten much better (particularly the EFI emulation + bootloader + Vanilla Kernel method). OS X updates can still be problematic, but not because it's on a hackintosh, but because the OS itself is buggy, such as how 10.6.2 has been with RAID.
If you do your research first (insanelymac.com is a good source, but there are others), you can discover what hardware has or doesn't have problems (such as kext files available or not). The easiest way is to find hardware that uses the same parts as the MP's, as you can use the kext files default to OS X, and the approach the most sucessful systems/users took.
Workstations aren't updated as fast as desktops, as it's a different market. Enterprise buyers need to be able to get the same identical system over time to spread out the financial load.
So was I. You can get them cheaper in both builds or other vendors than what you pay Apple for their system based on the same CPU/s. As well has have a better warranty included (no distance restrictions), and additional options.
The only functional difference between the i7-9xx and W35xx parts, is ECC. Intel's quantity pricing is the same, but the street prices do show a difference given the quantities sold to end users. But it's not so drastic it's impossible to build one's own. Either way (DIY or vendor system), they're more expensive from Apple. This has been proven in multiple threads.
Pro users influence additional Mac sales
I agree that it would be great if Apple would refresh the Mac Pro line more often, and make them a better value proposition for those of us who use Macs to make a living. I would've bought a new Pro last year, but the 2009s seemed like a real disappointment - after a 14 month wait. So now it's almost 11 months more and still waiting. I can't get my head around the idea that the 2008 models are probably the best current deal.
Apple should support the Pro market better on its own merits. But neglecting the Pros also hurts them in other ways. In the 15 years that I've used Macs professionally, I've purchased and/or recommended purchases dozens more consumer-level Macs ... for co-workers who had been running Windows for office tasks, for parents seeking entry into the Internet age, for kids getting a laptop heading off to college. They turn to me because they view me as an expert in this stuff. Because I use Macs at the high end, they trust that I know what I'm talking about for entry-level machines, and everything in between.
Sure, I'll bet plenty of consumers buy their first iMac or MacBook because they like their iPod or iPhone. But there are huge numbers that buy them because they know people like me who work professionally on a Mac all day long. If someday I'm compelled to move away from Mac for my pro work, it's not just Pro sales that Apple will be kissing off.
I agree that it would be great if Apple would refresh the Mac Pro line more often, and make them a better value proposition for those of us who use Macs to make a living. I would've bought a new Pro last year, but the 2009s seemed like a real disappointment - after a 14 month wait. So now it's almost 11 months more and still waiting. I can't get my head around the idea that the 2008 models are probably the best current deal.
Apple should support the Pro market better on its own merits. But neglecting the Pros also hurts them in other ways. In the 15 years that I've used Macs professionally, I've purchased and/or recommended purchases dozens more consumer-level Macs ... for co-workers who had been running Windows for office tasks, for parents seeking entry into the Internet age, for kids getting a laptop heading off to college. They turn to me because they view me as an expert in this stuff. Because I use Macs at the high end, they trust that I know what I'm talking about for entry-level machines, and everything in between.
Sure, I'll bet plenty of consumers buy their first iMac or MacBook because they like their iPod or iPhone. But there are huge numbers that buy them because they know people like me who work professionally on a Mac all day long. If someday I'm compelled to move away from Mac for my pro work, it's not just Pro sales that Apple will be kissing off.
They are. As an example, the 3.2GHz '08 Octad outperforms the base 2.26GHz '09 Octad in both single and multi-threaded applications for the same money ($3299USD).
As per the Quads, you can get a 2.8GHz '08 Octad for a little less $ than the base unit when they show up (rare, and they go quickly). But there are deals out there if you're diligent and have the time to wait/lurk around for one.
I agree with this sentiment. If pro users get burnt, they'll tell others to stay away (i.e. friends and family), and prevent/recommend against other Apple purchases if they're in a position to do so (corporate environment).
Just a few things...i7's and the Xeons used in the quad core "Mac Pro" are basically identical, the Xeon is simply rebranded. The only difference in the platforms is the more expensive ECC memory. Please tell me the last time ECC memory saved your work. This whole delineation of "consumer" vs "pro" chips is a bit silly these days. Xeon is a marketing name. Do you really think that i7 chips somehow aren't suitable for creative professionals? I mean, really? Do you know what the differences are between the i7 Nehalem's and the Xeon's?
More professionals use Adobe on Windows than Mac, just look at the share each platform has. It runs better on windows as well, to deny this is simply ignoring all of the data that points to this...
I am platform agnostic, it is obvious you are not. That's why my evaluations of said platforms do so on their merits and are not based on emotional desires or prejudices. Windows is not a bad platform, it is actually quite good for many reasons, even though I don't use it.
Share? What does the share have to do with this? Professionals and design/video editing etc. students mostly use Macs. Universities in these fields mostly use Macs. It's a fact.
Most consumers use Adobe software on Windows. Professionals don't.
There is no data nor evidence of this. Just speed comparisons which give the Windows version an advantage because it's 64 bit (who wants to run Windows 64 bit anyway). There's no stability test. Besides, the CS5 version will be 64 bit on Macs too, which will eliminate the only advantage of the Windows version.
I've never seen Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign or Flash run better on Windows. Don't know about Premiere and After Effects, since I don't use those.
I don't base what I say on prejudice. I base it on my and the ones' I know experience. I like Macs more, but that's only because they're clearly better for most of the things, obviously this based on my experience.
My and the ones' I know experience has always been different. Windows has never proven to me it's good. Always the opposite. IF it ever gets better, I will use it, but I doubt it.
Problems with drivers. Ranging from printers to security software. Overall 32-bit is still less problematic, even though the situation is changing.
I try every new version of Windows and it always fails to deliver what it should. If it was all prejudice I would just stop trying it altogether.No prejudice there. None at all.
I'd still like you to go on. I'm sure you're well versed in Snow Leopard and 64-bit as well.
If you're experience was with Visa 64 pre SP1 or earlier (XP 64 especially), I'd agree whole-heartedly.
But once SP1 dropped for Vista 64, the stability issues were solved, and enough time had passed 3rd party hardware devices had 64 bit drivers available that were also stable.
I've had no issues with Win7-64, and what I do is critical (circuit simulation). No crashes, save one that's not possible to be done anyway (attempt to force the system to sleep with a hardware RAID card, no matter the OS, as the card takes over the HDD funtionality alltogether). MS's Internet Explorer 8 is another story (and it's been getting better), but there's other browsers out there.