Is Apple still serious about the professional market?

[IntelliUser]

I'd still like you to go on. I'm sure you're well versed in Snow Leopard and 64-bit as well.

Snow Leopard in 32 bit mode can run 64 bit apps, so there's no problem.
My main problem with Windows 64 bit is the problem with some drivers. Especially security software. Some security software I paid for run crippled under 64 bit. Some external hardware drivers don't play well with 64-bit either. Other than that it's alright, but being security a major concern under Windows and the driver issues (Neither of which is Microsoft responsible for), I wouldn't consider it such a good solution as of right now.

 

[nanofrog]

Snow Leopard in 32 bit mode can run 64 bit apps, so there's no problem.
My main problem with Windows 64 bit is the problem with some drivers. Especially security software. Some security software I paid for run crippled under 64 bit. Some external hardware drivers don't play well with 64-bit either. Other than that it's alright, but being security a major concern under Windows and the driver issues (Neither of which is Microsoft responsible for), I wouldn't consider it such a good solution as of right now.

Details would be appreciated, as this is too general to gauge what's going on.

I've not run into this lately, and the specifics could be important for other users here. Problems do come up from time to time (no matter the OS, equipment,...), and such details can inform others to potential problems prior to any purchase, or if it's with existing equipment, perform additional research for a solution (or better equipement match if it's in relation to a planned upgrade with existing gear).

 

[IntelliUser]

Details would be appreciated, as this is too general to gauge what's going on.

I've not run into this lately, and the specifics could be important for other users here. Problems do come up from time to time (no matter the OS, equipment,...), and such details can inform others to potential problems prior to any purchase, or if it's with existing equipment, perform additional research for a solution (or better equipement match if it's in relation to a planned upgrade with existing gear).

I upgraded from Windows Xp x86 to Windows 7 x64 and had issues with drivers related to some hardware products such as my tablet and a bunch of other things. I've contacted the companies and while some of them are fixed, I'm still having problems with a minority. I've been keeping touch with them, in some cases they're just wierd issues, in others a 64 bit driver is not available yet.

As far as security software goes, not all features are present in what I use, Kaspersky, which may force me to switch to some other vendor (though I've still paid) as well as Defensewall, apparently to the way 64 bit has been implemented.

 

[nanofrog]

I upgraded from Windows Xp x86 to Windows 7 x64 and had issues with drivers related to some hardware products such as my tablet and a bunch of other things. I've contacted the companies and while some of them are fixed, I'm still having problems with a minority. I've been keeping touch with them, in some cases they're just wierd issues, in others a 64 bit driver is not available yet.

The details of the hardware do matter, and are the specifics I was referring to. Those details could prevent others from having to suffer the associated headaches, such as they've been too slow to develop 64 bit drivers.

I understand the frustration/issues, but it seems like it's with 3rd party devices, not actually Win7-64.

That even happens with OS X drivers. Just ask those that have eSATA cards for OS X (particularly for '09 systems running SL). Should be a simple thing, but turns out to be a more complicated. And then there's RAID... that does get complicated, as every single detail can matter.

As far as security software goes, not all features are present in what I use, Kaspersky, which may force me to switch to some other vendor (though I've still paid) as well as Defensewall, apparently to the way 64 bit has been implemented.

There's better security software out there (I presume you're using Kaspersky's Antivirus, not Internet Security product, which has additional features). If you want a free option, take a look at Avast (there's also a paid version, which adds features, such as anti-spam, sandbox for testing, script protection, and a firewall).

 

[IntelliUser]

That even happens with OS X drivers. Just ask those that have eSATA cards for OS X (particularly for '09 systems running SL). Should be a simple thing, but turns out to be a more complicated. And then there's RAID... that does get complicated, as every single detail can matter.

Yeah but, the thing with OS X is that you can get the 32 bit compatible drivers, and yet run 64 bit apps. That's a plus.

There's better security software out there (I presume you're using Kaspersky's Antivirus, not Internet Security product, which has additional features). If you want a free option, take a look at Avast (there's also a paid version, which adds features, such as anti-spam, sandbox for testing, script protection, and a firewall).

I don't think so. As far as detection goes, the only thing close to it would be Avira. I like Kaspersky because of the HIPS features. Unfortunately, those are precisely the ones which are crippled under x64.
Could get them all with a bunch of free software, but that would be even a bigger hassle.

 

[thermodynamic]

Not at the moment. But if they ever start struggling again they'll soon come crawling back to those they have ignored for the past 10 years.

That would be nice. Otherwise I'd feel bad for migrating...

P.S. Awesome sig line.

 

[nanofrog]

Yeah but, the thing with OS X is that you can get the 32 bit compatible drivers, and yet run 64 bit apps. That's a plus.

It's a half-baked solution though (it's not a true 64bit methodology), and if you've the need of 64 bit hardware (i.e. use the graphics card for Open CL), you need to boot K64 anyway. Unfortunately, if a user is on a EFI32bit system ('06 - '07), you're SOL. K64 isn't an option for those users (OS X, as Windows 64 bit editions will work).

I don't think so. As far as detection goes, the only thing close to it would be Avira. I like Kaspersky because of the HIPS features. Unfortunately, those are precisely the ones which are crippled under x64.
Could get them all with a bunch of free software, but that would be even a bigger hassle.

Avira would be my second choice between the two, but it and Avast seem to jockey back and forth with one another.

 

[Chaos123x]

So do you think Apple will surprise all with new 64-Bit versions of Final Cut Studio (with matching ui's), Logic Studio, and Aperture?


Maybe even release Phenomenon!


Would that change your mind?

 

[TheStrudel]

They will release those, and it won't be a surprise. It's on the regular update schedule. Logic already got a 64-bit update.

 

[Cole Slaw]

Anyone who has grown to love Apple for their professional grade hardware and software should seriously pray that Chairman Jobs will somehow just disappear.
Because if he has his way (which, of course, he will), Apple in 5 years will be known as a producer of smartphones and other trendy gadgets.
Serious computers and software will be a thing of the past.

 

[nanofrog]

Anyone who has grown to love Apple for their professional grade hardware and software should seriously pray that Chairman Jobs will somehow just disappear.
Because if he has his way (which, of course, he will), Apple in 5 years will be known as a producer of smartphones and other trendy gadgets.
Serious computers and software will be a thing of the past.

Unfortunately, the person groomed to replace him will have been indoctrinated into the same way of thinking, so it's not going to be all that different IMO.

 

[VirtualRain]

I think this chart is telling of Apple's priorities and focus. Pro software and hardware are likely only a tiny sliver of these color bands...

The answer to "Where is a refresh of the ACD monitors?" also becomes very obvious when you consider they can only account for a tiny sliver of the blue band.

 

[nanofrog]

I think this chart is telling of Apple's priorities and focus. Pro software and hardware are likely only a tiny sliver of these color bands...

The answer to "Where is a refresh of the ACD monitors?" also becomes very obvious when you consider they can only account for a tiny sliver of the blue band.

Nice find. And very telling IMO.

 

[macuserx86]

I was using that sweet time machine website thing today to look at Apple's old website and came across something. Remember the "Pro" tab on Apple's page? it used to have stories about various professional artists, writers and scientists using Macs to do their stuff. The professional used to be a big focus for Apple, but it seems that is no longer the case. Pity.

 

[beaker7]

I was using that sweet time machine website thing today to look at Apple's old website and came across something. Remember the "Pro" tab on Apple's page? it used to have stories about various professional artists, writers and scientists using Macs to do their stuff. The professional used to be a big focus for Apple, but it seems that is no longer the case. Pity.

http://www.apple.com/pro/

 

[macuserx86]

http://www.apple.com/pro/

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I know it still exists, but it doesn't have a nice little spot in the top of Apple.com any more; it's hidden somewhere in the "Mac" section. that was what I was getting at. Apple still cares about the Pro market...just not as much as it used to.

 

[grue]

So do you think Apple will surprise all with new 64-Bit versions of Final Cut Studio (with matching ui's), Logic Studio, and Aperture?


Maybe even release Phenomenon!


Would that change your mind?

Considering that FCP will need pretty much a top to bottom rewrite? Probably never, given Apple's disdain for the people that kept them in business when they weren't a trendy media player company. FCP still has issues dating back from when it was a Macromedia cross-platform product, and they'd have to move to Cocoa, etc etc. Personally I don't think 64bit matters nearly as much as multithreading it worth a ****. What good are 8 or 16 cores when FCP will only use two of 'em… if I'm lucky?

As for matching UIs throughout the Studio, you might see Motion et all made to match, but not likely Color. Keep in mind, though, any significant UI change is going to piss a LOT of people off.

 

[MacHamster68]

apples makes a lot of profit from iphone and ipod , together more then from the sales of mac 's
,i think if a lot then only 20% of the macs sold will be macpros and that is a high figure , most profit in the mac niche , and it is a niche already for apple they make from iMac's and macbooks and of course mac minis
apple is gone consumer orientated ,
professionals are by now only a small proportion of this niche market , and it is no wonder if you think how much the macpro costs
ok its a nice design , it has good components inside. but a nice alloy box is not everything if you can get the same components in a PC for lot less ,but even if a professional buys a mac

a lot of professionals now rely on windows , because a lot of program developing companys know with snow leopard and bootcamp you can run windows on the mac , so for them there is not rely a point of doing a new version of a program or a update that runs on osx

 

[gugucom]

The real shock comes when you see the margins behind the products and the potential expressed by growth rates. The fastest growth rates are in the apps store, iTunes and iPhones. That all gadgets as well.

The Mac Pro is far less than 10% of the Macs.

The biggest part of Macs are laptops. The volumes are 2/3 mobile vs 1/3 desktop.

And of the desktops again the iMac has by far more than 60%. I estimate the break down of desktop revenues to 15% mini, 65% iMac, 20% Mac Pro. And this is still friendly for Mac Pro as by now the mini may have outgrown it in revenue since the addition of the mini server.

So if you consider all that Mac Pro revenues are likely to be less than 8% of all Macs and less than 2% of all Apple revenues. That really makes it a niche product for Apple.

 

[MacHamster68]

i dont know, but it seems apple is going from a reputable computer manufacturer to a gadget manufacturer , who just happens to sell some computers too,
the new iMac looks like a giant ipad , so would well fit into this gadget market , but the Macpro simply does not fit in this market ,
and it does not generate the profits to justify producing it for longer
so in my opinion the apple future linup will look more like that:
iMac , mac mini, macbook and ipad

 

[beaker7]

and it does not generate the profits to justify producing it for longer

Do you have data to support this?

 

[Infrared]

Share? What does the share have to do with this? Professionals and design/video editing etc. students mostly use Macs.

I was under the impression that Avid + Windows was
quite dominant in some areas. Is that impression wrong?

 

[MacVidCards]

I think we are starting the funeral while the patient is still perfectly healthy.

I live in Hollywood and work in film biz. I am free lance so I work in many offices. NOBODY uses a PC in the places I go. This ended up being a big problem for one place I worked...they made web content for MSN but all of their machines were Macs. MSN was purposefully not "Mac Friendly" so they were having a hell of a time using the MS video player to view the content they produced.

The offices are full of Macs all over LA. SOme are laptops....secretaries usually have iMacs...but in the "Heavy Lifting" areas where the actual content is created that pays the bills...Mac Pros are the rule.

If Apple were to drop the Mac Pros they would become little more than a toy company. The cachet and "Cool" aspect that permeates these offices emanates from the Macs in every office and cubicle. If the edit suites were to switch to WIndows...the other machines would end up following. Apple knows this. They know alot of their "Cool" image comes from the Hollywood movie making image they have. If they stop making serious machines, they will stop being relevant in my biz and lose that clout.

The iPhones and iPods have brought Apple products into many pockets. Those people see and feel how nifty these little gizmos are and next time they buy a computer...SURPRISE...it's a Mac. So the gadgets are helping sell the original machines. WHy would they give up now? They finally are winning the battle. Mac users are no longer viewed as eccentrics who fly in the face of reason to be different.

I think they need to be careful with their word battles with Adobe over FLash and PS. Adobe apps also define the "serious" Mac......I routinely get ALL of my art files as Illustrator files.

LA is full of Apple stores and so is San Fran. These are not just centers of iPhone and iPod sales. Apple knows that being "cool" here and using their Product Placement division to appear in all the big movies and TV shows they can is paramount to keeping the brand taken seriously all over the planet.

Does GM make much of their overall money from the Corvette? Absolutely not...but it anchors the brand in many minds. Dad sits in the Corvette in the showroom and knows they can make a serious car, before he asks to test drive the more pedestrian vehicle he intends to buy. should be WELL aware that their image of being THE content producing platform via their Pro line is an invaluable part of their brand. They aren't stupid, after all.

 

[TheStrudel]

I think we are starting the funeral while the patient is still perfectly healthy.

This. As long as  can sell a million Mac Pros per revision, which is feasible, they will continue to sell it.

I think it's become fashionable to bemoan  as the new Sony and fear the impending death of the Mac Pro in favor of gadgets, but I haven't seen people who use it in creative agencies find it wanting, and so they continue to buy it.

They may be trying to squeeze more money out of it, but that doesn't have to mean they'll be done with it soon.

Wait and see before you pass judgement. For all we know, a surprise awaits us in March.

 

[nanofrog]

The iPhones and iPods have brought Apple products into many pockets. Those people see and feel how nifty these little gizmos are and next time they buy a computer...SURPRISE...it's a Mac. So the gadgets are helping sell the original machines.

But those systems are far more likely to be laptops, iMacs, and possibly Mini's. Not Mac Pro's.