Is it a good time to buy?

[Quu]

If you buy one every year then I don't see what your problem is tbh.

Broadwell won't improve CPU performance that much and you want a dGPU anyway making Intels improvements to the iGPU not important to you.

And sorry that I trusted the most well regarded Mac benchmark site to list up to date results.

 

[john123]

If you buy one every year then I don't see what your problem is tbh.

I don't have a "problem." I just said it's a ho-hum upgrade in terms of raw performance. I stand by that statement.

Broadwell won't improve CPU performance that much and you want a dGPU anyway making Intels improvements to the iGPU not important to you.

With Broadwell, I won't feel the need for the dGPU. Today, I do. I feel like you're missing the entire point behind what I'm saying. Usually, there are compelling reasons for people like me to upgrade, even on a yearly basis. For this round, with the exception of the SSD, there isn't.

And sorry that I trusted the most well regarded Mac benchmark site to list up to date results.

Simply reading would have prevented your error. It's right there, in black and white. Not sure why that's Geekbench's problem. Eyeroll indeed.

 

[Quu]

Simply reading would have prevented your error. It's right there, in black and white. Not sure why that's Geekbench's problem. Eyeroll indeed.

Because they listed the MacBook Pro I have and I'm not some Apple maverick that knows every single model of every computer released? I trust them to have the information that's why I went there? Does it look like I have an iMac or know what the latest one is or even the year it was released? no.

Use your head.

With Broadwell, I won't feel the need for the dGPU. Today, I do. I feel like you're missing the entire point behind what I'm saying. Usually, there are compelling reasons for people like me to upgrade, even on a yearly basis. For this round, with the exception of the SSD, there isn't.

NVIDIA won't just sit by, they will bring out a new GPU next year and you'll probably feel you need that because it'll be so much faster than Intels included iGPU on the Broadwell chips.

 

[john123]

Because they listed the MacBook Pro I have and I'm not some Apple maverick that knows every single model of every computer released? I trust them to have the information that's why I went there? Does it look like I have an iMac or know what the latest one is or even the year it was released? no.

Use your head.

You don't read the text on the chart you link yourself, and you tell me to use my head? Oh boy. The ditch—it grows deeper.

 

[simon48]

No, you didn't say it, but you implied it—which is what I said. The first sentence in your second paragraph furthers the point.

The truth is that from Intel's roadmaps, we do have a pretty good idea of what Broadwell will offer. And given that we know that the 750M and Iris Pro aren't too far off from each other in non-gaming/non-heavy OpenGL uses, a switch to iGPUs across the board likely won't be that bad. It'll certainly be on par with the current base model.

----------



Er, no. We know that Broadwill will improve the instruction set, and that's incremental, but the big promise is on the GPU side, where the number is 40% or more improvement on a TDP basis. It's also going to be even better on the power consumption side. I consider those to be big wins. YMMV.

Ok, I did not say it or mean to imply it! Is that good?

I see where you are trying to go with this, but you butchered my point. My point was: "you can always say just one more round", but you can aways see the next one on the horizon. But you can aways "gamble" and go maybe it'll have a Touch ID, a IGZO display or also do your dishes.

The CPU isn't the only thing can change, if the absolute best update happens with everything you can imagine and more, just buy it then and it will still be "outdated" in a year anyway. You a can just wait for the next one that also uses no power and makes Bond girls show up at your door.

 

[john123]

you'll probably feel you need that because it'll be so much faster than Intels included iGPU on the Broadwell chips.

Nah.

 

[Quu]

You don't read the text on the chart you link yourself, and you tell me to use my head? Oh boy. The ditch—it grows deeper.

Sorry has Apple released a 2013 Mac Mini? No. Okay, have they released a 2013 Mac Pro? No. Okay. So how do I know they've released a 2013 iMac? I don't follow iMac news.

Got it yet?

----------

Nah.

That's a pretty definitive comment when we've not actually seen any benchmarks yet.

 

[john123]

The CPU isn't the only thing can change, if the absolute best update happens with everything you can imagine and more, just buy it then and it will still be "outdated" in a year anyway. You a can just wait for the next one that also uses no power and makes Bond girls show up at you door.

Wait, will Broadwell make a Bond girl show up? SWEET!

Seriously, I agree with you. Sometimes great upgrades don't offer performance boosts on the CPU side. But where I was trying to be critical of this particular update—and it's gotten lost in the shuffle—is that it didn't offer much in the way of performance at any level today, while preserving the same form factor. If you shell out for a new Time Capsule, Airport Base Station, or similar third party router, sure, the 802.11ac matters, but for most others, that's a non-issue today. The same holds true for TB2; I'd love to get my hands on a TB2 enclosure. The GPU on the base models is a regression. And the one feature many of us were looking forward to, because it had become virtually synonymous with Haswell, was battery life—and the measly one extra hour was rather disappointing.

I agree that you can always be rolling the dice with upgrades, and sometimes you'll be let down. All I was trying to say was that in this particular instance, the evolution over the previous generation wasn't that great. Ultimately, I have to believe that's part and parcel of the reason the base model saw a $200 price drop.

----------

Sorry has Apple released a 2013 Mac Mini? No. Okay, have they released a 2013 Mac Pro? No. Okay. So how do I know they've released a 2013 iMac? I don't follow iMac news.

Seems to me that before you go pronouncing a computer to be the "fastest [non-Pro] Mac ever released," and faster than iMacs, that you should actually know what iMacs are current. I'm not sure why you keep defending yourself on this. Is it so hard to admit that you screwed up and were wrong?

That's a pretty definitive comment when we've not actually seen any benchmarks yet.

It was a definitive comment, because you alleged—without knowing me—that I'll think that I still need a dGPU when new benchmarks come out. I won't. On the graphics side, my needs are actually rather static. An iGPU offering 650M-level OpenGL performance would be fine for my needs now and for the next couple years. It's easy for me to be definitive about my own needs, and I don't need to see new benchmarks to make that assessment.

 

[Quu]

I think the battery life would have been better if they lowered the CPU clock but then people would be wondering why performance stayed the same like it did with the MacBook Air.

Personally for me I prefer the performance over the battery life gains because I use mine plugged in most of the time and only choose a laptop for portability between locations where I plug it in.

I think people who want maximum portability should go with an Air and Apple would do good to release a 15" Air for those people that want 12 hour battery life at the cost of a retina display and killer performance.

Seems to me that before you go pronouncing a computer to be the "fastest [non-Pro] Mac ever released," and faster than iMacs, that you should actually know what iMacs are current. I'm not sure why you keep defending yourself on this. Is it so hard to admit that you screwed up and were wrong?

I already said several posts up: And sorry that I trusted the most well regarded Mac benchmark site to list up to date results.

So now you're wrong, do I get an apology now? Do you wanna keep playing this game and acting like an internet troll or can we actually get back on topic?

 

[simon48]

Nah.

So you're chasing the best, but your happy to stay with GPU speeds we had a year ago (2 years by the time you get your Broadwell MBP iGPU), that makes no sense.

 

[Quu]

So you're chasing the best, but your happy to stay with GPU speeds we had a year ago (2 years by the time you get your Broadwell MBP iGPU), that makes no sense.

*shrug*

Strange but ya know people are strange.

 

[john123]

I think the battery life would have been better if they lowered the CPU clock but then people would be wondering why performance stayed the same like it did with the MacBook Air.

The 2.0 clock is roughly equivalent to the Ivy Bridge 2.4 clock.

Personally for me I prefer the performance over the battery life gains because I use mine plugged in most of the time and only choose a laptop for portability between locations where I plug it in.

Me too. Getting neither sucks, and that's what happened.

I already said several posts up: And sorry that I trusted the most well regarded Mac benchmark site to list up to date results.

That's not taking personal responsibility, nor is it a real apology, but at this point, I'm guessing you don't do that. But by all means, feel free to drop the subject. My point was made.

----------

So you're chasing the best, but your happy to stay with GPU speeds we had a year ago (2 years by the time you get your Broadwell MBP iGPU), that makes no sense.

Chasing the best? Where did you get that? I value bang for my buck. I expect iterations to be improvements. Graphics performance isn't as important to me as CPU and disk performance. Sorry, what's confusing about this to you?

 

[Quu]

That's not taking personal responsibility, nor is it a real apology, but at this point, I'm guessing you don't do that. But by all means, feel free to drop the subject. My point was made.

Yeah I didn't think I'd get an apology.

 

[john123]

Yeah I didn't think I'd get an apology.

Because I was correct. You were incorrect. Let's stop de-railing this thread, shall we? If you want to continue this, feel free to PM me.

 

[Windows&Apple]

So, yes to buy? I'm not worried about broadwell. I'll consider upgrading after skylake.

 

[Quu]

So, yes to buy? I'm not worried about broadwell. I'll consider upgrading after skylake.

I say Buy.

802.11ac
PCIe SSD
TB2
Significant CPU and GPU performance gains on the Haswell CPU
1 Hour extra Battery Life

Those are all pretty good upgrades. I'd say for Broadwell the most you're looking at over todays models are maybe a bump to 768GB SSD on the high end stock model, maybe a 32GB BTO option and improvements to CPU performance (Slight) and maybe a 50% boost to the iGPU.

 

[simon48]

Wait, will Broadwell make a Bond girl show up? SWEET!

No, that's in Skylake. Get it? Skylake? Skyfall?

Seriously, I agree with you. Sometimes great upgrades don't offer performance boosts on the CPU side. But where I was trying to be critical of this particular update—and it's gotten lost in the shuffle—is that it didn't offer much in the way of performance at any level today, while preserving the same form factor. If you shell out for a new Time Capsule, Airport Base Station, or similar third party router, sure, the 802.11ac matters, but for most others, that's a non-issue today. The same holds true for TB2; I'd love to get my hands on a TB2 enclosure. The GPU on the base models is a regression. And the one feature many of us were looking forward to, because it had become virtually synonymous with Haswell, was battery life—and the measly one extra hour was rather disappointing.

I agree that you can always be rolling the dice with upgrades, and sometimes you'll be let down. All I was trying to say was that in this particular instance, the evolution over the previous generation wasn't that great. Ultimately, I have to believe that's part and parcel of the reason the base model saw a $200 price drop.

I know what you mean, this one wasn't the biggest update, it is kind of waiting for the rest of the world to catch up. I won't be using 802.11ac for a for a while and TB2, there's barely anything for TB1. But like you said $200 price drop, better battery life, big SSD speed boost, if it's time for an upgrade for someone, it's not that bad of a time to go for it (especially if you plan on getting the dGPU).

 

[john123]

So, yes to buy? I'm not worried about broadwell. I'll consider upgrading after skylake.

For the issues you raised—i.e., defects—yes, it's a fine time to buy. There's a selection bias going on in what you read online, rather than a representative sample. You're apt to read about people with problems, or people who have an excessively picky eye when it comes to noticing small problems.

----------

I know what you mean, this one wasn't the biggest update, it is kind of waiting for the rest of the world to catch up. I won't be using 802.11ac for a for a while and TB2, there's barely anything for TB1. But like you said $200 price drop, better battery life, if it's time for an upgrade for someone, it's not that bad of a time to go for it (especially if you plan on getting the dGPU).

Yup, we're on the same page.

 

[Windows&Apple]

Now, is there a difference between the 2.3 and the 2.6? Speed wise? I'll be doing 3D work and some pretty light photo and video editing. Well, video editing may get to the medium to high side once in a blue moon. I'll be upgrading my desktop to a custom built desktop next year with the broadwell chip set so I'll be putting big projects on that. But I will be using this laptop to get started on projects between classes. 2.3 should be alright?

 

[simon48]

Now, is there a difference between the 2.3 and the 2.6? Speed wise? I'll be doing 3D work and some pretty light photo and video editing. Well, video editing may get to the medium to high side once in a blue moon. I'll be upgrading my desktop to a custom built desktop next year with the broadwell chip set so I'll be putting big projects on that. But I will be using this laptop to get started on projects between classes. 2.3 should be alright?

I won't be a huge difference, ~10%.

 

[johnnylarue]

My 20 cents:

TL;DR: In the short term, it's the best time to buy. Long term? Wait until next year, or maybe longer...

I do agree with john123: the most significant gains for this generation are an extra hour or two of light-duty battery life, and a $200 price drop. The rest of the updates, while nice to have, bear little to no significance on the day-to-day user experience for most people.

That said, I found a section from AnandTech's review of the 2012 Retina somewhat revelatory. In Anand's view, seen from 2012, Haswell was going to be a very significant upgrade in terms of GPU and CPU performance. The proverbial "tick" to Ivy Bridge's "tock". Well, it looks like Intel's clock might be in need of service since it just "tocked" twice in a row...

There is evidence to suggest that Broadwell may deliver the goods in a more meaningful manner, but it also might not. It could just as easily turn into another, routine 10-15% performance boost. We can make educated guesses all we want at this point, but until those CPUs and GPUs (and nVidia's new GPUs) are produced and installed in a MBP, we have virtually no way of knowing for sure.

IGZO displays are a game-changer in my opinion, but there too, with recent rumours putting them in iPhone 6, it's a safe bet we won't see an IGZO MBP until next fall at the earliest...

Bottom line: I needed a new computer now. I have a friend who currently works at an Apple Store, which might not be the case next year--can't look a gift 15% discount in the mouth.

And so now I get to proudly wear a t-shirt that says, "I own the fastest MacBook Pro in existence"... for the next five months, at least.

I didn't intend to upgrade now, but I'll embrace it. And if next year's update leaves my machine in the dust to the extent that it bothers me, I'll upgrade again. (I have a funny feeling that won't be the case though...)

----------

Now, is there a difference between the 2.3 and the 2.6? Speed wise? I'll be doing 3D work and some pretty light photo and video editing. Well, video editing may get to the medium to high side once in a blue moon. I'll be upgrading my desktop to a custom built desktop next year with the broadwell chip set so I'll be putting big projects on that. But I will be using this laptop to get started on projects between classes. 2.3 should be alright?

I sprang for the 2.6GHz 'cause I'm kinda OCD and the extra $180 was worth it to avoid potential buyers' remorse. Fortunately, at the end of the day, it turns out I had no sentimental attachment to that money.

And based on the benchmarks I've been seeing the difference is closer to 7% overall between the 2.3GHz + 2.6GHz. Really nothing to write home about.

(I probably wouldn't have gone there if I wasn't getting the friends & family deal.)

 

[Windows&Apple]

The most I'll get is the student discount. And I really do need a new phone, Nexus 5. If its not really a fantastic upgrade, I'll skip it. If its anything like my 6 year old Core2Quad, it should be amazing!

 

[toneLA]

Yeah I didn't think I'd get an apology.

This guy spends his time teaching lessons to everyone. We get it now. Though I'm pretty sure it must be exhausting on an everyday basis. I'm glad I'm able to smile at life instead of spending my days being the moral police of MR.com

People amaze me.

 

[Windows&Apple]

My lord, I love the fact that people are talking about this. Its amazing!!

 

[AGuyInATown]

I have to agree with Quu on this one. There's absolutely no end "The next model will be better". And EVERYONE always speculates that the next model will be a vast improvement over what was just released. If you go by "waiting because the next model will be superior", you'll always be waiting and you'll never have a computer. Face it, a few months after you buy your computer, there will be better hardware available (+/- some time depending on what part of the year you buy). I had a Mid-2007 Macbook, and absolutely needed to upgrade, and got the base 15-inch with upgraded RAM (I keep my computers 5+ years). If you need a new Macbook, now is the best time to get it because they were just released. Get it, be happy with it, and ignore the fact that next year they will release another upgrade as long as your computer is serving your needs.