Is M1 base really that superior to Intel i9 or i7?

[robco74]

Now we're getting into specific use cases. Obviously if the software you need is only on one hardware platform, and/or one OS, then that's what you get. For the overwhelming majority of users, the software they need is on ASi, or will be soon. These users however, tend to use their machines and rarely take to online comment sections and forums. It's the users in the edge cases who tend to make their frustrations known.mApple made this change knowing they would lose some users. This was the case in every software and platform transition Apple has made. But they may also gain new users as well.

The software world has shifted away from coding an app, tossing it over the fence, then walking away. However, some of that old legacy software is still critical for some. Even web apps aren't immune, consider how long it took to get rid of IE.

 

[pshufd]

 

[progx]

We still haven't seen a desktop class processor in Apple Silicone yet. All these M1 SOCs seem to be geared toward mobile situations. The Mac mini and iMac are running the same SOC as the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro 13", so we still haven't seen a flex from the M1 yet.

This is a tricky situation right now for people looking to get newer machines. This situation isn't any different when Apple was switching from PowerPC to Intel either. Sure, you had great performance gains, but applications were still running on Carbon and for the architecture. It took a good 2-3 years for the dust to settle.

If you can, wait for the next round of Apple Silicone Macs. First revs are always tricky. If you're thinking about Windows, go Ryzen and forget Intel, Alder Lake isn't worth the power bill.

 

[pshufd]

We still haven't seen a desktop class processor in Apple Silicone yet. This is a tricky situation right now for people looking to get newer machines. This situation isn't any different when Apple was switching from PowerPC to Intel either. Sure, you had great performance gains, but applications were still running on Carbon and for the architecture. It took a good 2-3 years for the dust to settle.

If you can, wait for the next round of Apple Silicone Macs. First revs are always tricky. If you're thinking about Windows, go Ryzen and forget Intel, Alder Lake isn't worth the power bill.

Apple was smart in just putting the M1 into existing designs. I think that their execution on the 2021 MacBook Pros was superb. I'm not a fan of the M1 iMac. I just saw the rumors that the iMac Pro is delayed until September. Speculation is that there might be a consumer iMac at the spring event but we might not see anything like that this spring.

I think that the 2020 iMac 27 is a very nice machine but that it is already depreciating and will depreciate even fast once the AS version comes out. Still, if you need something right now, you need something right now. Thus the long iMac Intel 2020 thread in the iMac forum. It looks like Apple is still selling lots of those as well given how the inventory moves up and down at my 12 local stores.

 

[mi7chy]

Don't rely on garbage synthetic Geekbench benchmark to gauge application compatibility, performance, stability, etc. Best to get a loaner and have hands on with the applications you plan to use.

 

[bobcomer]

If you need x86 compatibility and Windows in a VM, the M1 is definitely *not* the way to go, but if you don't, it's pretty good and better than older intel mobile processor machines.

As for the Macbook Air, if you're a light user, it's Good. It wasn't for me, I'm a real heavy computer user and the MBA was definitely not the machine for me! It got hot and quickly, then it slowed down quite a lot. Basically the worst PC for me that I have bought in decades. The air isn't even enough lighter to make that a selling point. And only 2 USB ports, and the video is kind of sub-par when you compare it to other machines. Note that my hatred of my particular MBA is just a me and my usage thing, I still like Macs. I'm actually making do with my early 2020 Mini, i7, 64G of RAM and still quite happy with it.

I'd really suggest a MBP 14" Pro or Max if you want my honest opinion. At least 16G of RAM. (or the upcoming new desktops!)

 

[pshufd]

Don't rely on garbage synthetic Geekbench benchmark to gauge application compatibility, performance, stability, etc. Best to get a loaner and have hands on with the applications you plan to use.

The problem with that is lead time in getting a BTO or MAX to test with.

 

[mi7chy]

The problem with that is lead time in getting a BTO or MAX to test with.

OP referred to the commonly available MBA M1. Short of Apple Store offering a test drive then just buy, try and return if it doesn't work out.

 

[Tagbert]

The Intel MacBooks, though, can run eGPU. The M1 GPU is really not that strong. The GPU in my 2014 iMac is 30% faster.

I’ve never seen a eGPU in the field. Not sure what I would do with one.

 

[mi7chy]

I’ve never seen a eGPU in the field. Not sure what I would do with one.

Gaming and GPU compute/accelerated applications.

 

[mr_roboto]

The base M1 Mac Mini can run two 4k monitors out of the box, that's not a limitation of the M1 chip but of the specific IO configuration of the MB's you mention.

The specific IO config in the MacBooks is a limitation of the chip.

M1 can drive two displays total. On the notebooks, you have a built-in display which permanently consumes one of those two outputs, so you can only drive one external monitor. The Mini has no built-in display, so both of the M1's outputs are available to drive external monitors.

(Similar things apply to M1 Pro and M1 Max - Pro has three display outs, Max has five, and the notebooks they've released with these chips support two or four external displays respectively since the internal display still consumes one.)

 

[Tagbert]

You miss out on expandability for future needs.

I built a Windows desktop and it looks great, and it runs cool and quiet and it's efficient. Those were my design goals.

I like the M1 MacBook Air. We have one of them. I really like the 2021 MacBook Pro and that's my daily driver laptop right now. But one of these days Rosetta 2 is going to go away and your Intel programs are going to stop working. Which is why I keep Intel systems around. That and none of them ever swap.

Progress on updating Intel apps to Univfersal/AS apps is progressing well.

M1/Rosetta 2 support Statistics

M1/Rosetta 2 support Statistics

isapplesiliconready.com

Of course there will always be apps that are essentially abandoned and never updated. You will need to recheck your apps when Rosetta is finally retired but I don’t expect that for a few years yet.

 

[pshufd]

OP referred to the commonly available MBA M1. Short of Apple Store offering a test drive then just buy, try and return if it doesn't work out.

If you're concerned about performance, and have good reason to be, you'd want the 16 GB model.

 

[jinnyman]

For power efficiency, almost nothing can compete against it at that performance level. However, when you start to stress it, you hit the limitation pretty soon. It's just 4 cores cpu (counting P cores only) and running multiple heavy stuff quicky overflows it. M1 is also limited in number of display it supports. I still think using the same M1 with one external display support in iMac is slap in customer's face.

 

[pshufd]

Progress on updating Intel apps to Univfersal/AS apps is progressing well.

M1/Rosetta 2 support Statistics

M1/Rosetta 2 support Statistics

isapplesiliconready.com

Of course there will always be apps that are essentially abandoned and never updated. You will need to recheck your apps when Rosetta is finally retired but I don’t expect that for a few years yet.

Fidelity Investments manages over a trillion in assets. They are a huge player as an broker, management of retirement accounts and mutual fund company.

They don't care. If you want to use their platform efficiently, get an Intel computer.

 

[mi7chy]

M1 is also limited in number of display it supports. I still think using the same M1 with one external display support in iMac is slap in customer's face.

That's probably a limitation of DDR shared memory bandwidth. Even with one external display at 4K the UI is kind of laggy compared to something like a $100 GT1030 with GDDR memory. For MBA M1 Rev 2 I'd like to see it based on GDDR and better heat spreader so it doesn't throttle by a 1/3 under sustained load.

 

[pshufd]

For power efficiency, almost nothing can compete against it at that performance level. However, when you start to stress it, you hit the limitation pretty soon. It's just 4 cores cpu (counting P cores only) and running multiple heavy stuff quicky overflows it. M1 is also limited in number of display it supports. I still think using the same M1 with one external display support in iMac is slap in customer's face.

Even the 2017 iMac 21.5 supports 2x4k external displays.

 

[pshufd]

That's probably a limitation of DDR shared memory bandwidth. Even with one external display at 4K the UI is kind of laggy compared to something like a $100 GT1030 with GDDR memory.

I regularly get monitor resets on the M1 mini hooked up to a 4k monitor. It is mildly annoying. One thing about the iMac is that I never get monitor resets - I guess because it's directly connected. I know what you mean about the 1030. I have one in an old desktop and those things are rock solid. They are one of the GPUs that still affordable too.

 

[leman]

If you play Mac games that are Intel-only then odds are they will not perform as well on an M1

On contrary, most Intel-based games run better on M1 Macs. Better hardware, better driver quality.

 

[apparatchik]

The specific IO config in the MacBooks is a limitation of the chip.

M1 can drive two displays total. On the notebooks, you have a built-in display which permanently consumes one of those two outputs, so you can only drive one external monitor. The Mini has no built-in display, so both of the M1's outputs are available to drive external monitors.

(Similar things apply to M1 Pro and M1 Max - Pro has three display outs, Max has five, and the notebooks they've released with these chips support two or four external displays respectively since the internal display still consumes one.)

I guess you're right, as the IO lanes / buses are surely integrated as part of a system on a package, in the context of performance though, which was the original discussion, the gpu is clearly capable of running more than 2 4K displays.

 

[jinnyman]

I guess you're right, as the IO lanes / buses are surely integrated as part of a system on a package, in the context of performance though, which was the original discussion, the gpu is clearly capable of running more than 2 4K displays.

I'm pretty sure given gpu's performance that it can run more than 2 4k. But doesn't matter as SoC is designed as is, limited in display numbers. hence, M1 is only capable as is

 

[Ethosik]

Even bigger comparison is I got rid of my 2019 i9 9900k iMac I spent $4,600 on it in favor of a $1,200 Mac mini M1 and it was much better for my workflow. Benchmarks and paper the i9 was better, but not for my real workflow comparison.

 

[throAU]

The same thing is happening with even 2013-2015 MacBook Pros. One of these days, maybe five years from now, the 2020 iMac i7 will be about $500 used.

The problem is, at that point software support for x86 will have been dropped, and the mediocre performance on that model of machine will be even less relevant.

You'll be spending $500 on a difficult to upgrade/repair/maintain machine with warranty that long since expired, that performs really quite badly in anything but extreme niche 3d discrete GPU based applications vs. say, an M1 or M2 Macbook Air you could buy at that point for similar money.

Which is fine if, in 2027 you still have need for x86 specifics apps, but at that point you really should have moved on. Either to Apple Silicon or another platform that will give you security updates for both your OS and apps.

 

[JouniS]

We still haven't seen a desktop class processor in Apple Silicone yet. All these M1 SOCs seem to be geared toward mobile situations. The Mac mini and iMac are running the same SOC as the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro 13", so we still haven't seen a flex from the M1 yet.

I'm starting to think otherwise. Maybe the M1 / Pro / Max are already desktop chips by any reasonable definition.

If we compare Intel laptop/desktop chips of the same tier, the prices are roughly the same. The desktop chip may have more CPU cores, while the laptop chip may use the space for a bigger and more capable GPU. Desktop users are more likely to have a discrete GPU after all. The desktop chip uses more power to run at a higher frequency, and its memory controller may support more RAM. Otherwise the differences are rather small.

Apple does not seem to think that increasing performance by increasing frequency is a good idea. It's not going to trade GPU cores for CPU cores, because it's not planning to support discrete GPUs. If Apple wants to increase performance within the same generation, it must make bigger and more expensive chips. But then the price would put them into the workstation category.

 

[Makosuke]

Thanks for the explanation! Makes sense that the peak performance from the M1 probably isn't meant to be for a long period of time, considering there's no fan. Good point about the RAM; that's definitely new info to me!

You were specifically looking at the M1 MBA rather than the 13" M1 MBP, but just in case mr_roboto's point slipped past, the M1 13" MBP does have a fan, so has none of the thermal limitations of the MBA and will run its M1 at full speed indefinitely.

The 13" MPB is actually not all that much heavier or bigger than the Air, so if you're willing to consider light and relatively inexpensive versus "ultra" light and a bit more inexpensive, the MPB is worth at least checking out, even if that model is a bit of a stopgap. The couple we have at work seem quite nice, even if I went with the M1 Max myself.