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Is Motorola KILLING Apple?

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
It differs 'cause murder isn't protected by the Constitution. ;) Comparing murder to gun control laws is like comparing apples and oranges. You can legally buy/own a gun in the US, you cannot legally murder someone (killing someone in self-defense would be considered justifiable homicide not murder ;)). Placing more and more restrictions on legally buying a gun hinders a lawful person much more than it hinders a criminal.
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I don't see what you mean. I don't see how the Constitution is involved - only legality. I'm not comparing murder to gun control laws - I'm comparing murder laws to gun control laws. That said, your statement that "making more gun control laws is pointless because criminals don't obey laws" could be applied to any type of law, thus nullifying it.
We can't keep drugs or illegal immegrants from getting into the country, what makes you think we can stop guns at the border? Not to sound cliched, but assuming all legal guns are taken and destroyed who is going to be left armed?
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I agree that it's a tough logistical problem, but I don't think it's impossible. Well, it is impossible given the current climate towards guns in the US, but it's not theoretically impossible. Guns are very different from drugs in that drug addicts HAVE to have their drugs, whereas gun users presumably don't feel that kind of withdrawal and therefore would presumably not go to such extreme measures as smuggling in their magnums sourced from a foreign cartel and smuggled into the country via some vast underground network of "gun-lords." Again, other, similar countries, like Canada (which is similar in both geographical, social, and ideological composition), do a decent job of keeping guns out.
And comparing the US to the UK just isn't realistic. Not only from a cultural point of view, but from a logistical one. The UK is a small (compared to the US) island country that naturally has difficult borders to sneak across. The US, on the other hand, is a big country w/thousands of miles of pretty porous border.
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For the sake of guns, it's not really any more porous than that of the UK. Mexico is (mostly) walled off, guns are illegal and mostly nonexistent in Canada, and the only thing on the border of the US besides Canada and Mexico is ocean, the major US ports on which are covered pretty well by customs.
alex_ant, you've done a really good job of spoutin' off 'bout why guns are bad (and keeping this topic waaayyy OT ;)) but I've yet to see one feasable solution from you yet. Personnally, I think education and better enforcement of current laws is a good place to start...
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I really wish some group or organization or other entity, or the government, would step up and put some effort into this education and better enforcement you speak of. At the same time, I wish that everyone involved in this debate would acknowledge that there is a problem, and no matter which side of the ideological divide they stand on, I wish they would be more open-minded to compromise and not so extremist - e.g. "We must ban all guns and repeal the 2nd Amendment immediately" vs. "The right to own guns should be as basic as freedom of speech and everyone and their dog should own guns."

I'm not trying to present my own solution - ****, I wish I had one - I'm only here to pick people's brains and keep the topic of the thread away from Apple dying. And it looks as if I'm going a dang good job. :)

Alex
 
I know I'm getting in on this late, but I feel the need to comment on a couple of things.

There are several key issues to keep in mind about gun control. You can debate the meaning of the 2nd Amendment until you're blue in the face, but the original intent of our forefathers in known only to them. People will read into it what they want, find their own "proofs" and excuses, and say "this is what they intended". No document (especially political ones) is completely clear and to the point.

For those of you advocating the right to keep guns in the home, please think of the accidental deaths that could be prevented. Young children die because they play with guns similar to their own toys and don't realise there's a difference. Many deaths during robberies could be prevented if guns were never there in the first place, since they only come into play when the homeowner brings it out.


The long and short of it comes down to education, good parenting and open discussion (like we're doing here). Attitudes in this country are all over the map, from raging psychos like Heston, to radical flower-children types. Consensus is pretty much an impossibility.

Sorry if this is fragmented, but I'm tired and trying to watch SNL at the same time. My opinion is that it's a sad world where we need guns in the first place. :(
 
the issue may not be the point of the computer hardware, but having some future version of osx run more efficiently

osx is still a work in progress, and while things are going slow, osx is a masterpiece and worth the wait

my guess is that it will eventually run very well on g3 based computers...but by then, apple may not have any g3 based machines
 
OS X runs great on my dual gig G$ :D

And I totally agree that there is a problem w/gun violence in this country, and removing firearms from society will do a lot to curb gun violence. But I'm willing to bet that the cases of people getting stabbed and beaten to death will skyrocket (as compared to current stats). What have we accomplished by replacing one form of violence with another?

It doesn't make sense to me to focus on the symptom of a problem, but not the cause. Less than a year ago a friend of mine commited suicide w/a pistol. Would he still be alive if the gun wasn't around? I dunno. Maybe he would have O.D.ed, or wrapped his car around a tree. Maybe he wouldn't have. My point is that my friend took his own life because wanted to die.
He didn't take it because he knew a gun was in the house. The gun didn't make him do it.

It's amazing the power many people think a hunk of machined metal has. People don't hurt/kill others because they have a gun/knife/bat/rock/big stick/piano wire in their hand. People hurt/kill others because they want to.

Things like these are always going to a problem in a free society because being free means you have personal resposibility, which some people can't handle. Does that mean that everyone should be punished because of an immature minority? Should we get rid of cars because some people drive recklessly and kill others? Or alcohol because some people over indulge and become violent or drive drunk? No, we find ways to educate people and try to keep the people with problems away from the bottle or out of the drivers seat.

As for the "gun laws/murder" thing how about we drop that and I'll come at it from a different angle. The problem is criminals using guns. So the focus needs to be on cracking down on criminals who use guns and/or people/businesses that sell firearms illegally. Hampering the ability for a lawful cizten to get a firearm does nothing to hinder a criminal from illegally obtaining a firearm. Like I said before, disarming America is not a viable solution, so people (in general, I'm not pointing at you alex_ant) need to stop bringing it up as an option.

And he's a lil' info 'bout me so you know where I'm coming from. I'm an "Army brat" and some of my first memories are learning to shoot down in middle-of-nowhere Texas w/my family and relatives. Whenever I'd be home from college, on break or what not, my dad and I would always hit the local range. Shooting is a bonding point in my family. We all (I'm the youngest of 3) had gun safety drilled into us, and I have a very healthy respect for firearms. Some of my friends are damn near phobic of firearms yet they've never even seen one in real life. Some how they've come to the assumption that guns are evil... I wonder how that happened...:rolleyes:


Lethal
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
People don't hurt/kill others because they have a gun/knife/bat/rock/big stick/piano wire in their hand. People hurt/kill others because they want to.
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The only difference is that a knife/bat/rock/big stick/piano wire require the use of force to be lethal, and a gun simply requires a finger's pressure on the trigger...
 
For those who say stabbings, bludgeonings, etc. would skyrocket if guns were eliminated, please consider the effort required to kill someone by those methods. If you want to kill someone with a knife, for example, you have to walk up to them and stab them. That takes time. Time for you to think about it and time to do it. Assuming you don't have complete surprise, there's going to be a struggle. Is this person larger than you? Are they stronger, quicker, tougher than you? All these things factor into the outcome. Assuming you've considered all that and decide you really want to hurt this person you then have to do it. That takes a few seconds to a few minutes assuming they don't/can't run away screaming for help. With a gun, you could be standing there thinking about shooting someone and in a second pull that trigger and that's it, someone is seriously hurt or is killed. It's hard to outrun a bullet. Before you could think your way through it you're done. I say this because records show that most people are murdered by someone they know, not burglars or assassins or jackbooted thugs. If people had to go through all the effort to use a knife to kill their friend/spouse/relative would they? I'm not sure. Guns make it too easy to shoot first and think later.

I've never killed anyone or tried so don't post any replies asking, "how do you know, have you ever done it?" It's just common sense.

Another thing about the 2nd Amendment, most NRA types leave out the phrase, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" before the "right to bear arms" part. So you see, it's not just "we get to have guns just because". I'm also pretty sure that the security of our free State is handled by law enforcement agencies and the armed forces and not by the guy down the street with a glock. Furthermore, when that was written, the flintlock or matchlock (someone please confirm) was an arm. Does
this mean we should only be able to keep these? If you suggest that the writers meant whatever arms of the day, does that give you the right to have a bazooka? A mortar? Cruise missile? Tactical nuke? I know I'm exaggerating but bear with me. If you say no to any of the above then you are in favor of some kind of control of arms so why not guns?

Here's a compromise gun control idea. Outlaw hand guns but keep rifles and shotguns (over a certain length) legal. Make the penaly for hand gun posession stiff and rigorously enforce the law. Here's my thinking. Handguns are easy to conceal and rifles aren't. Most robberies committed with guns are committed with hand guns. The law abiding gun owners that like to hunt can keep on hunting with their rifles. The law abiding target shooters can shoot with rifles. Ditto for skeet/trap enthusiasts. The only people that get screwed are hand gun owners collectors. How about offering a tax credit to them for turning in their guns? If they really must shoot, get a rifle to take to the range. If they really must shoot with a pistol, I suppose an air pistol isn't the same but it might be better than nothing. "But the criminals will still be able to get hand guns", you say. They can get them now too and look where we are. If hand guns were criminalized, those who had them would be criminals and would be dealt with accordingly. I'm sure this would never be proposed and anyone is free to shoot holes in it but I wanted to put it out there. There are already laws that make some guns legal and other illegal, why not this?

One last thing, if you are going to respond to this, please do so in a civil manner. I'm not foaming at the mouth about this and my intention isn't to insult or enrage someone. After all, if you're mad after reading this, you probably have a gun!
:D

To open this thread up even further, let's discuss the death penalty!
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
And he's a lil' info 'bout me so you know where I'm coming from. I'm an "Army brat" and some of my first memories are learning to shoot down in middle-of-nowhere Texas w/my family and relatives. Whenever I'd be home from college, on break or what not, my dad and I would always hit the local range. Shooting is a bonding point in my family. We all (I'm the youngest of 3) had gun safety drilled into us, and I have a very healthy respect for firearms. Some of my friends are damn near phobic of firearms yet they've never even seen one in real life. Some how they've come to the assumption that guns are evil... I wonder how that happened...:rolleyes:
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I also grew up around firearms. When I was about 8, my father (a NRA instructor) took me to the range and taught me how to shoot. Even before that, I was taught all about gun safety and how they are NOT toys. At one time, I believe that there were over 20 firearms within the hour. A mixture of rifles of different kinds (a shotgun, bolt action files, as well as old west repeaters) as well as revolvers and pistols. Since my father didn't want to give me something that I couldn't handle, I started off on a single shot, bolt action, .22 rifle. I then progressed through to the .22 pistol, .38 revolver, .45 pistol and finally the big dog, a .357 magnum (8" python, one hellova wheel gun). My favorite then, and now, is the .45. I actually have one of my own that I use in competitions.

I think that one of the issues with gun 'accidents' is that the parents don't teach their children about guns. That, or they are not secured well enough. I am not talking about trigger locks, since those are more dangerous then they are helpful. Our pistols were always locked up, with ammunition being in a seperate location.

As for people killing themselves, if someone wants to off themself, then they will do it. Even if no firearms are available, they will find a way. That has always been the case. Unless you live in a rubber room with no sharp corners or edges, it will happen.
 
Originally posted by AlphaTech
I think that one of the issues with gun 'accidents' is that the parents don't teach their children about guns. That, or they are not secured well enough. I am not talking about trigger locks, since those are more dangerous then they are helpful. Our pistols were always locked up, with ammunition being in a seperate location.
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How about the category of "freak accidents"?

Take Brandon Lee, for instance. He was killed on the set of "The Crow" when the wadding from a blank cartridge shot from a shotgun ejected and acted just like a bullet as it hit him in the chest. Here's situation where every precaution is taken, live ammo is not a factor, and someone still ends up getting killed.

Now, someone may have the best intentions in keeping their ammo separate from the actual gun, but how easy is it to forget the one bullet in the chamber, or a cartridge you put in the rifle? Human error must be accounted for, and putting deadly weapons in error-prone situations is just plain wrong.
 
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Now, someone may have the best intentions in keeping their ammo separate from the actual gun, but how easy is it to forget the one bullet in the chamber, or a cartridge you put in the rifle? Human error must be accounted for, and putting deadly weapons in error-prone situations is just plain wrong.
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Responsible gun owners NEVER put a firearm away loaded. People that are taught gun safety KNOW to treat EVERY firearm as though it was loaded UNLESS YOU CLEAR IT YOURSELF. That was the core of gun safety that I was taught and is taught by all the certified instructors that I know. That is also common sense.
 
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Responsible gun owners NEVER put a firearm away loaded. People that are taught gun safety KNOW to treat EVERY firearm as though it was loaded UNLESS YOU CLEAR IT YOURSELF. That was the core of gun safety that I was taught and is taught by all the certified instructors that I know. That is also common sense.
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I'm not questioning the training or rules or even common sense, but when you have to qualify gun owners with the word "responsible" that means that you acknowledge the fact that not all gun owners are.

If you aren't taught gun safety, how should you be expected to treat every gun as if it's loaded? Kids playing with Daddy's gun don't know to check first before they look down the barrel or point it at their friend.

So what's my argument then? Gun education as part of general public education might be an ideal, but it would never happen. Licensing won't work because people come across them whether they're licensed or not.

Or get rid of the friggin' things...and no-one will go for that because they'll be scared that someone out there still has them, and they won't have any "protection".

This is a great debate (and obviously very important to people), but I'm not sure if us Mac heads can find an answer that nobody's been able to for a long time.
 
Yes, it is easier to kill someone w/a gun than with, a sharp/blunt object. But my point is that many people (again, I'm speaking in generalities and not pointing at any in this thread) see the gun as the root of all evil and think that if the gun is banned in America this country will become a nearly crime free paradise over night. Okay, so maybe I'm exaggerating a little ;). In the spring of 2000 I spent the semester in London. While I was there there were 2 seperate incidents of people being attached by sword. The 2nd sword attack happend in the office of an Memeber of Paralment. He was hurt and one of his aides was killed. Also, one of my friends gut mugged by knife point. And another get attacked by a bum w/a broken bottle (thankfully he escaped w/minor cuts). Being some place "without" handguns gave many of us (I was there w/a group of students) a false sense of security. I think the same thing will happen in the US (if guns get banned or heavily regulated). Targeting firearms is an over simplification of a multifacited issue.

I ask again, how will taking the guns away from legal gun owners significantly reduce the amount of firearms that people obtain illegally? I know this is a fairly extreme example, but if you look at the weapons that the LAPD has take from gangs it's amazing. Many of the weapons aren't able to be legally sold in the US and were bought/smuggled from Mexico. The US can't stop people or drugs or guns from entering this country illegally. Again, I'm not trying to sound cliched, but if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns. You can't legally buy weed, crack, or acid either but I'm still pretty sure you can get all that and more in the US... ;)

And since everyone else has brought up the NRA I might as well too. Personally, I think the NRA is too rigid and too far to the right. Everytime I see the NRA speak out I cringe 'cause they usually make all gun owners sound like ultra-right-wing gun nuts that have a massive weapons cache in the basement just in case U.N. troops invade the US. Instead of railing against gun control they need to work with law makers to devise measures that make it harder/less desirable for criminals to get/use firearms w/o infringing on the ability of the average Joe to buy a firearm.

As for freak accidents... Well, you can't really do anything to prevent a freak accident otherwise it wouldn't be called a freak accident now would it? How many millions of blanks do you think Hollywood goes thru in a year? How many people have died from them? A guy, in Rhode Island I believe, fell on his coffee cup a few weeks ago and died. A ceramic shard from the cup cut a vein/artery<sp?> and he bled out in minutes. Weird stuff happends that you can't predict or protect yerself from.

As for little Bobby playing w/Daddy's gun and shooting his sister... Little Bobby shouldn't have been playing w/Daddy's gun in the first place. This is where education comes in. Education and gun safes/locks. We teach kids not to play with fire, not to talk to strangers, and, if guns are in the house, not to play w/guns. If a parent leaves the gate the backyard pool open and a neighbor hood kid wanders in, falls into the pool, and drowns is it the parent's fault for not securing the gate, or is it the pool's fault for being there? Or is it the dead kid's parents fault for not teaching their, now dead, kid not to play around a pool unless an adult is around?

Again, we are looking at a minority report (accidents, criminal use, etc.,) and using it try and justify the removal of legally owned handguns from the majority of people who never use their gun to commit a crime, or accidently shoot someone (I'll bet that fewer than 5% of legally owned/obtained firearms are used in criminal acts or accidental shootings). Am I the only one that finds that logic a bit odd? Look at it this way... Just because some people use thier computers for illegal acts does that mean we should give the government or a corporation free reign to access everyone's computer whenever they want to? I'm not trying to say guns and privacy are the same thing, but just that should the acts of a small minority warrent sevrely punishing the majority?

I'll admit that some of my examples are definetly the exception and not the norm. But so are some of examples some of ya'll are using too. ;)

Just out of curiosity how much firearm experience do the "anti-gun" people have?

Lethal

P.S. I'm glad everyone has stayed level headed and no naming calling or juvenille attitude has been thrown around.
 
Lethal-
Good points. Here's my rebuttal:

I don't think people see guns as the root of all evil (that's $$$), they see them as needlessly destructive tools that are all to often abused.
As for your sword example, let me ask you this: How many people do you think would have died if he went in with a gun instead of a sword?
I agree that targeting guns as the ultimate goal is short-sighted, at best.

We're not bringing up the argument that gun regulation in this country will somehow magically stop all guns from coming into the country...that would be naive. But by decreasing the number of guns available AT ALL, you will assuredly decrease the chances of them being used illegally/accidentally.

I know that my "freak accident" examples are far-fetched, but they serve to provide examples of situations where if guns were not present such accidents would never have happened. Go talk to some mother whose kid died playing with Daddy's gun and see if she feels that the statistical improbability of the event lessens her grief any.

Like I said in my earlier post responding to Alpha about training, people are by nature prone to make mistakes. Even the most well-meaning, responsible people make fatal mistakes. And then you have irresponsible people who just don't give a damn, and do whatever they want with their guns, because who is that gun safety guy to tell HIM how to handle his guns, he knows what he's doing, he's not stupid...BANG...oops.

I'm sorry if you feel that 5% of the cases are acceptable losses. Once again, tell that to the families who lost loved ones. I'm for making the world a safer place, cheesy, I know. But the logic behind your stance is a little strange too. You're taking the position that since the criminals DEFINITELY have guns, you need one to protect yourself. Wait, that sounds familiar...now where have I heard that before?...oh, yes, the Cold War. Russia's got nukes so we gotta have 'em too to blast them into oblivion if they fire at us. How does that make the world a safer place?

PS. My firearms experience is as follows: I have fired and done very limited target practice with .22 rifles, .38 hangun and a shotgun. So there! :p
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Just out of curiosity how much firearm experience do the "anti-gun" people have?
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I have absolutely none. Well, I killed a mushroom (yes - a mushroom) with a BB gun once. I've only seen a real gun (not including guns on police officer belts) once, and it scared the bejeezus out of me. Guns were not a part of the culture in which I was brought up at all, so I would reckon that yes, the culture in which one is raised probably does play a very big part in one's beliefs on this subject.

Alex
 
surprise...pc user aboard

just FYI Motorola was ahead of its time with the G4 CPU. The G4 was using an .18 micron process two years before Intel or AMD (I know, I work in the industry)... I currently use the latest AMD CPU based on the .18 micron process. By comparison, the Mac benchamrked better in real-world applications than the PC... Hard proof froom a PC user. Please don't quote me, I can get fired for this type of statement.
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Just out of curiosity how much firearm experience do the "anti-gun" people have?

Lethal
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Just out of curiosity... what does that have to do with being anti- or pro-guns?

For me as a german it is surprising, that really some US citizens seem to believe it is the end of the world, if fire-arms are banned. I didn't raise with guns and I didn't really miss them. So does that make me incompetent to have my own opinion about it?

Almost anything can be used to kill somebody. No matter if it is a knife, a pencil or a stone. But guns are meant to kill, that's their purpose and why they exist. And items like that shouldn't be available for the public. Otherwise I can legalize everything: drugs, any chemicals, TNT, ... whatever... people are mature and educated enough not to use it for criminal activities. Right?

By the way, I raised and live in Berlin, one of the biggest cities in Europe and I was enjoying a lot to go out at night when I was a few years younger, even using public transportation in the middle of the night on a regular basis. It happened one time during all the years that I got attacked when I was 16. And that was by a stationed soldier from UK (no offense, just fate) that was drunk and needed to "release" his energy! I don't want to know what would have happened, if he would have been allowed to bear his gun in public!

I am sure that the potential to actually kill someone is higher with a gun, since it is not much effort to do that, compared to other methods, as some people pointed out before. Also it is unlikely that a criminal will use his gun against someone who is unarmed, as long as the person means no thread to him. As soon as the other side has a gun too, he is under pressure to maybe really using it. "If I don't kill him, he will kill me!" And .... boom!

I don't see anything heroic to defend yourself by killing someone else! In most cases it is better anyway to play along and to give them what they want to prevent unnecessary violence!

I think the only problem is, that there are so many firearms in the US, that it is almost impossible to get rid of them within a short time. But it would be a good start to have the laws, even it takes years to get everything under control.

groovebuster
 
I just love coming into a thread once its had a chance to shift topics, you never know where it will go.

More gun talk, huh. Haven't we already gone over this a couple of times before? That an the 2nd Amendment.

If Apple made a gun, what would it be? iMac10? And you could choose from several different colors, but I'm betting a TiMac10 would be slick!:D
 
Originally posted by alex_ant

I have absolutely none. Well, I killed a mushroom (yes - a mushroom) with a BB gun once. I've only seen a real gun (not including guns on police officer belts) once, and it scared the bejeezus out of me. Guns were not a part of the culture in which I was brought up at all, so I would reckon that yes, the culture in which one is raised probably does play a very big part in one's beliefs on this subject.

Alex
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Have you ever been educated about firearms, other then to fear and hate them?? In my optionion, EVERYONE should know what to do with a firearm if them come upon it. That is one of the things that one NRA program goes out of it's way to do. The Eddie Eagle program is there to teach kids. The first thing that they are instructed it to never touch a gun that they 'find'. Go, get a parent or adult, show them where they saw it, and let the adult handle it. I wish more people would look at the programs that the NRA has in place to educate people before bashing them. Yes, there are issues with all organizations, but which doesn't have issues??? Even churches do (as shown by the mollesting priests).

Blaming guns for violent people is just plain stupid. If someone wants to kill someone else, they will do so. How many serial killers commit their acts with guns?? Not many. Education is one way to prevent the accidents, both freak and otherwise.

There have also been cases where people having guns (legally, and carrying them) has stopped a criminal act. There have also been more then a few times where an armed family member has saved his/her (yes women too) family from being brutalized/killed.

In my own experience, I have found that women shooters are excellent. I have been beaten more then once in a competition by a woman, just because she is a better shot then I am. I could try to come up with excuses, but the end result is that she is/was better then me and deserved to win.
 
Keep on hiding behind your "i need to have a gun to protect from this and that..."

My solution:

require all guns to be registered to the owner. Any gun that is used to kill or commit a crime makes the licensed owner de facto responsible until they can prove some reasonable precautions were taken to maintain control over the gun through trigger locks, using a safe, etc.

don't say it is not guns, look at the 13 year old boy in florida that killed his teacher. he found the gun in the cookie jar. come on man, if there is skimming that needs to be done on the gene pool, the most effective place to start may be with card carrying members of the nra.

dispel your fears and grow a spine.
 
If outlaws don't obey laws...

then idiots don't follow gun safety rules. if the reason not to have laws is because people break them, i don't see how your safety courses are any less suspect. requiring a fool to go to a course when they then go home and put a loaded gun in the cookie jar seems to be invalidated by your same logic, or lack thereof.
 
Originally posted by groovebuster
I didn't raise with guns and I didn't really miss them. So does that make me incompetent to have my own opinion about it?
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Does that mean that if never had any experience with a car, never took a driving class, that you would be qualified to talk about people driving?? I know you wouldn't be able to drive, at least not in the US... I don't know what they allow where you are, but you can get in deep sheep dip without a driving license.

Opinions are like a$$holes... everyone has one, but you don't have to like anyone elses... that is one of the advantages of having a free country.

One last thing... We have the bill of rights, but there was also talk about having a bill of responsibilities (never got drafter to my knowledge). In a free society, you need to be responsible for your actions, not blame someone, or something, else.
 
Re: Keep on hiding behind your "i need to have a gun to protect from this and that...

Originally posted by gelbin
My solution:

require all guns to be registered to the owner. Any gun that is used to kill or commit a crime makes the licensed owner de facto responsible until they can prove some reasonable precautions were taken to maintain control over the gun through trigger locks, using a safe, etc.

don't say it is not guns, look at the 13 year old boy in florida that killed his teacher. he found the gun in the cookie jar. come on man, if there is skimming that needs to be done on the gene pool, the most effective place to start may be with card carrying members of the nra.

dispel your fears and grow a spine.
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In MA, guns are registered to the owner. The state has that on record and can look and see what you have at any time.
 
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Have you ever been educated about firearms, other then to fear and hate them?? In my optionion, EVERYONE should know what to do with a firearm if them come upon it.
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And why? What is so important about it?

That is one of the things that one NRA program goes out of it's way to do. The Eddie Eagle program is there to teach kids. The first thing that they are instructed it to never touch a gun that they 'find'.

If there are no guns you can't find them. Neither I "found" any gun in my whole life (I am 32) nor do I know a person who did...

Go, get a parent or adult, show them where they saw it, and let the adult handle it. I wish more people would look at the programs that the NRA has in place to educate people before bashing them. Yes, there are issues with all organizations, but which doesn't have issues??? Even churches do (as shown by the mollesting priests).

To compare the NRA with the church...? I hope you are not serious about that!

And again! If there isn't any guns you don't need programs like that at all.

Blaming guns for violent people is just plain stupid. If someone wants to kill someone else, they will do so. How many serial killers commit their acts with guns?? Not many. Education is one way to prevent the accidents, both freak and otherwise.

It is also plain stupid to give criminals easy access to guns. Serial killers are not the main problem, since their are not the common criminals. Most "accidents" happen in other situations.

There have also been cases where people having guns (legally, and carrying them) has stopped a criminal act. There have also been more then a few times where an armed family member has saved his/her (yes women too) family from being brutalized/killed.

I doubt that the number is significant compared to killings being prevented by banning guns.

In my own experience, I have found that women shooters are excellent. I have been beaten more then once in a competition by a woman, just because she is a better shot then I am. I could try to come up with excuses, but the end result is that she is/was better then me and deserved to win.

Interesting that you have to come up with that. Does it have any impact on the original subject? I think especially being a good shot or not is not a question of sex... like almost everything else.

Regards,

groovebuster
 
Mass

I am not saying simply register, but impose a rebuttable presumption of liability for anything that happens with the gun.
 
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