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Is Motorola KILLING Apple?

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Hey Mad Max, how about sharing your good fortune with those that are making it possible??? :D
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Did I not mention the evil laugh? I guess I should have said ""evil GREEDY laugh:D

BWUHHuHuHuHuHu (low gutteral tone) mmmmuuuuuunnnnneeeee!:p

Don't get me wrong, I would love to share, but if I share with you, I have to share with everyone, then I wouldn't be retiring now then, would I?:(

Wow, this thread might actually be winding down, and just when I thought you would drag info about the AMD K9 pitbull out of me.

Guess I dodged the bullet there!
:D
 
As this thread's now 7 pages long, i haven't had time to read all the posts... BUT

Apple is making record profits

AND THEN WE GET

"Is mot KILLING apple??"

duh... of course not...

Are they helping?

duh... of course not -- it's motorola...
 
Originally posted by wake up Jobs!!!
DEMOCRATS SUCK!!!!!!!!!
look at all there failures, Bay of Pigs, Ellian Gonzalez(stupid kid), 18th ammendment (ban on alcohol)(i think). All democrats do is get layed in the oval office (kennedy, clinton), raise taxes, destroy our military , take money away from schools and enducation to give to poor fu*ckers who don't want to work and jack off.
This is why democrats suck!

All this from a 14 year old, and to think.. you guys are fighting over guns, why don't you go shoot your selves.(not to be taken seriously) [/B]
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* blakespot stands in dazed amazement that such an insightful comment could issue forth from someone only 14 years of age!


blakespot
 
j763

Here is a bit more in-depth anaysis of Apple's financial situation.

For comparative purposes, looking at the past 12 months:

Microsoft (software) Revenues $25.57 billion
Profit $ 6.37 billion = 24.9%

Dell (computers) Revenues $31.17 billion
Profit $ 1.25 billion = 4.0%

Apple (both) Revenues $ 5.80 billion
Profits $ 205 million = 3.53%

Remember, everytime Apple sells a computer (like Dell) they also sell an OS, a mini suite, iApps , plus they have Final Cut etc. (like MSFT).

Arguably their profits should be somewhere above those of just a computer assembler like Dell.

If all of Apple processors were between, lets say, 1ghz and 1.6 ghz, would they be selling more computers and earning more profit?

I think you can make a case that Motorola is hurting Apple.
 
Re: j763

Originally posted by sjs


If all of Apple processors were between, lets say, 1ghz and 1.6 ghz, would they be selling more computers and earning more profit?

I think you can make a case that Motorola is hurting Apple.
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Just when you thought the thread was dead....

I still believe that if Motorola released a higher class CPU too soon, they would end up hurting Apple more by making the olser slower CPU's more unwanted and undesired.

Look at it this way, Apple and Motorola struck a very good balance between time to market and cost/performance. They were able to show a sustained growth in a market where they were almost extinct a few years earlier. The demand curve going up is just a "fringe benifit" if you will. But, they are smart not to bend to this demand curve. if they flood the market with new CPU's who is going to want the even newer CPU's. Take a look at the Revenues and profits over the last three years... is Apple and Motorola a good investment? I'd say for the long term yes.

I know that many will disagree with me, but from the executive side, this is a good decision.

As for the 14 year-old.... not profound enough, although I believe he/she is getting more out of his/her education than his/her peers. Come back with a few years experience and we'll discuss politics in a forum for politics...look for "Madder Max":D
 
MadMax

Good comments...there is merit to not flooding the market with processors that are so fast that the public does not perceive a need for them. However, I think Apple/Motorola are far enough behind that they need to do some catching up, first.

Also about the 14 year-old. He is from Miami and there are some pretty hard feelings down there about the nazi-like capture of Elian Gonzales. I relate to his feelings about that issue.
 
with net profit numbers like that, i think apple needs to worry about apple hurting apple more than motorola hurting apple

motorola is just one piece of the pie...of course, they can put out faster processors, but apple needs to worry about marketing, cost, etc..

apple might be a good investment in the long run but unless something happens soon, there won't be a whole lot to invest in

-it is easy for us to know mhz for mhz, we are faster than the wintel world but they are way ahead, and offer larger hard drives, and more ram (and ddr ram), and larger software bundles, etc

this cumulative effect is not good for apple increasing their share which they need to do to stay financially healthy...by trying to have a too high profit margin could be a quick fix on the tactical level, but not good for the long term strategic level

wall street analysts are not giving gloomy reports because they hate apple or are wintel users, they see a bad trend happening which makes them see things some of the apple users can't because of an emotional connection we have (or might have) to the company
 
Originally posted by jefhatfield


-it is easy for us to know mhz for mhz, we are faster than the wintel world but they are way ahead, and offer larger hard drives, and more ram (and ddr ram), and larger software bundles, etc



wall street analysts are not giving gloomy reports because they hate apple or are wintel users, they see a bad trend happening which makes them see things some of the apple users can't because of an emotional connection we have (or might have) to the company
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Actually, the G4 is quite upgradeable. I changed my wife's HDD to a 120 GB Western Digital, Added 2 GB SDRAM and a GeForce4 Ti 4600 (that I bought for a PC but flashed with a MAC BIOS [ROM]) Right now, her 1 GHz Mac G4 is as fast (if not faster) than my Athlon XP 2200+ (you get CPU's sooner here in Taiwan) with 1.5 GB DDR and a GF4 Ti 4600. The fact that Apple doesn't offer these things as standard (but you can upgrade your order at the Apple store to get the same effect) is that they know that it really is overkill. As for DDR, it is a good choice to stick with SDR until the bugs are worked out with DDR. I do not know of one chipset manufacturer that didn't have a problem with DDR compatibility yet. In fact, DDR is still very problematic as far as stability is conserned. DDR II has most of these bugs worked out. I won't be surprised Apple moves straight to DDR II in order to keep their good name in stability.

As for the Wall Street analysts...if you have seen some of their recent reports, they are "almost" praising Apple for their good business sense and are predicting a more flowery future than before. especially since Apple has revolutionized the concept PC and set a standard for design that no-one can match.

This is all just food for thought. Jeeze! All this from a PC USER!:D
 
i would have to see a trend of good reports since the bad reports of gloom and doom i have seen in the wall street journal and in the general press are just six weeks old if even that

look at the period between the release of the original imac in late 1998 and up to the time when their stock tanked in 2000...apple was on a high that put them over 100 a share with good forecasts

now with bad forecasts, there is no way apple can afford to have their stock take that type of beating again

personally, i am stunned that apple has put out such good products and wall street did not take notice
 
Re: wall street...

Originally posted by 3rdpath
i think wall street has noticed that apple is a good company with good products.

but they have also noticed that the stock is overpriced.
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after apple's stock took a fifty percent nosedive quite some time ago, almost every new release of macs has met with a slight decrease or no change in apple's stock value

what is that about?

my theory is that wall street is scared of steve jobs' leadership of apple...he has lost their confidence as he shows the financial world that he is not ceo material

...but to be fair, there seem to be a lot of ceo's these days being met with low confidence (hp) or even possible jail time (that BIG BIG energy company)
:rolleyes:
 
apple stock

i haven't heard or read any of the wall street pundits "dissing" job's performance or managerial style-i really just think its all about the numbers.

when apple's stock was sky high in 99/00-so was just about every other stock out there. they were all adjusted-to put it mildly with the crash.
so many people base their views about apple's " fair or typical" stock price on these prior highly inflated numbers--as if somehow apple will be back at $100/ share if they just stay in business. their stock can be overpriced regardless of their revenue, profit, or speed of the G5....too much is too much

i don't think apple gives a hoot about their stock price-and for that i applaude them. they're not in the "stock inflating" biz. if you base your decisions on stock price, you're apt to start doing questionable stuff just like enron and scads of others. if apple really wanted their share price to increase, they would've bought back shares when the price was $14.50-they've got the benjamins to do it. in billions. instead, they just do their thing and try to stay ahead of the curve.

if people pay too much for the stock and then complain that it's not appreciating-what can apple do?
 
Being cynical

At the risk of sounding cynical, surely it's part of the role of a good CFO to minimise the company's exposure to taxation by all legal means.

"Profit" is always a thorny one to define, and there are legitimate and legal reasons why a company may present its figures in such as way as to appear less profitable.

Regarding Steve Jobs, I think this article puts things into perspective:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2002/tc20020424_7548.htm

The truth is, love him or loath him, you have to admit that Apple is dependant on him. This is his strength, and Apple's weakness. The sign of a truely skilled manager is that in time they will manage themselves out of a job. The true test of Jobs will be whether he is capable of inculcating his skills upon Apple's senior management, so that when he retires he leaves Apple a healthy self-sustaining entity.
 
I think another one of Steve's strengths that will have left a lasting impact on the company once he leaves is the people he has brought in to make Apple what it is these days.

People like Ive, Rubinstein, Cassanova know how to make amazing products. Jobs and Schiller know how to sell them.
 
foocha, i agree

i don't think you're being cynical, just realistic regarding both the "profit motive" and jobs.

i think jobs is doing an excellent job but i don't think he's the only person capable of successfully running apple. the big problem is the public's perception that jobs is the only guy who can do it. he's a figurehead, mascot and rock-star and shifting someone else into that position or eliminating that position in favor of an equally distributed ( real or perceived) leadership is going to be one long intricate dance. jobs doesn't seem like the type to just slowly fade into the background to retire quietly.

i can't imagine him going anywhere in the short term but the long(long...) implications are of a concern. the day steve leaves is the day i sell apple short--does that make me part of the problem? :confused:
 
ironically....

i just received the april esquire ( UK edition-thats why its late...) and it has a nice article on jobs and ives.

one qoute of interest: "Steve Jobs is Apple computers and Apple computers is Steve Jobs". therein lies the rub.....

i hadn't read much on ives before and can i just say: he's one cool guy.

damn eng's-always the coolest:)
 
I agree that Jobs has put a great team together. It's good to finally see some really smart people at the top at Apple again. (I think you all know the earlier period I'm alluding to here!)
 
qualifications?

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Does that mean that if never had any experience with a car, never took a driving class, that you would be qualified to talk about people driving?? I know you wouldn't be able to drive, at least not in the US... I don't know what they allow where you are, but you can get in deep sheep dip without a driving license.
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Actually, a friend who has never passed his driving-test is a very good road-designer for the south-east of England (he actually designed a series of seven roundabouts arranged in a circle to improve traffic-flow, which was radical BUT WORKED!). Weird, Huh!
 
Re: Being cynical

Originally posted by Foocha
At the risk of sounding cynical, surely it's part of the role of a good CFO to minimise the company's exposure to taxation by all legal means.
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Yeah, and the role of people like me is to put in jail or nail for boucoup bucks the CFO's and companies who decide to play a little fast or a little loose with the law.

:D
 
Re: just being fecetious..........

Originally posted by mischief
hey mcrain:

2 words.........

Off Shore....:D ;) :rolleyes:
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Actually, believe it or not, that makes it easier. Most people and companies set up off shore accounts thinking they are safe, so they do stupid things and don't do a very good job concealing the nature of what they are doing, and then they get audited here, and unless they turn over books and records, the auditing department gets to make up whatever they want based on the "best available information." Until they turn over the records, that's almost impossible to defeat.

Oh, and the us of a has agreements with almost all tax havens now.

Oh, one final thing... there are special penalties for taxpayers who use defined "tax haven" countries.
 
Re: qualifications?

Originally posted by ntg


Actually, a friend who has never passed his driving-test is a very good road-designer for the south-east of England (he actually designed a series of seven roundabouts arranged in a circle to improve traffic-flow, which was radical BUT WORKED!). Weird, Huh!
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Only in a country where it is normal to drive on the left would a series of 7 roundabouts be the best solution to any driving problem.
 
I stress the word "legal" in my previous post - I'm neither implying nor advocating tax evasion here!

As a driver in the UK I can confirm that the road system here is nuts, and the road planners here are all obsessed with roundabouts and the uniquely British (I think) 'miniroundabout'.

Irrelevant side note - There's nothing odd about driving on the left-hand side. We Brits are not the only ones - take Japan for example, and many other south-east Asian countries to name a few.
 
Originally posted by Foocha

Irrelevant side note - There's nothing odd about driving on the left-hand side. We Brits are not the only ones - take Japan for example, and many other south-east Asian countries to name a few.
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An interesting point...but, did you ever stop to think that the South-East Asian countries (except Japan) you are mentioning were occupied or controlled by Britain at the time that their transit systems were designed... i.e. Hong Kong - left, rest of China and Taiwan - right:eek:

Here's a little test: list the South-East Asian countries and which side of the road they drive on... let's ee if anyone can do it. And don't let Laos turn this into a trick question.:D
 
:D Did I mention that this is still a fun thread to read through...;)

I am really impressed by the caliber of teh replies and the intimate knowledge some people have on some subjects...

btw...I have seen the G5 working beautifully with it's larger-than-life passive heatsink...it really makes you want to cry.:cool:

And contrary to what you might hear in other threads - SCFRSOT- there is no 1000MHz bus. Just think of it logically...AGP 8X = 66MHz, 64-bit PCI = 66MHz, DDR now at 400MHz. 1000MHz would be total overkill and waste of money. It is only good in the research labs of Intel, AMD and Motorola...

I am curious if Apple is going to move to Serial ATA though? That would make for an interesting shift for Apple technologies toward the other PC's.
 
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