There's also the possibility that the 2008's were just an amazing value... cheaper than the system could be built from parts.
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Is the Mac Pro WAY overpriced?
- Thread starter Hookflash
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There's also the possibility that the 2008's were just an amazing value... cheaper than the system could be built from parts.
Apple has never been a charity. So they will have had a healthy margin from their buying advantage compared to the DIY enthusiast. What they have done now is simply a rip off. They are obviously not concerned with Hackintoshes and take advantage of it. If you don't absolutely need the performance the 2009 Mac Pros are definitely a model to skip. Perhaps they will come to their senses next year, but I would not hold my breath.
As this thread has shown, they have done nothing different than their competition when it comes to Nehalem 8 core. It's a hot architecture for this segment of the market and everyone is taking advantage of it.
So you are happy to be ripped off because your neighbor who buys boxes is ripped off as well? Give me a brake!
If you need the product then you shop and assess your options. "Overpriced" is a relative term that depends on a users need as well as the options available.
So if you need a Nelathem... then you assess the market and make a choice. It's got nothing to do with what your neighbor is doing...
My feeling is that most of the people in the thread don't need a Nelathem Xeon. For those that do, the value is weighed on the amount of work that can be accomplished. It's all about performance per dollar, not breaking down the components and trying to figure out what the manufacturer's profit is.
I think this illustrates that the margins on the 2008 were fairly thin - especially on the 8-core entry level model which was the most popular. The processors are not the only cost. There's the cost of all the other components as well as a custom main board. There's also the cost of running the business line (design and development, production, shipping, support, warranty and repairs, marketing, etc.) and all the head count that's employed in these functions for the Mac Pro.
So imagine what happens when the economy goes in the tank and all of a sudden your largest customers are putting purchase orders on hold and deferring spending on large capital items like workstations... You are suddenly in a position where you are likely to sell half or less units than you did before, but still have all the same costs to cover... What are you going to do?
Wow $284? You guys have some good parts places, I couldn't find it lower then 297 from the "shifty" places or 305 from one I trust.
Its easy to show that in performance/$ a 2008 2,8 Octad beats a 2009 2,26 Octad. So you cannot even stand on that leg. And I do care about the manufacturers profit when prices are hiked up the way they currently are for the Mac Pros. But suit yourself. I can tolerate all kind of opinions with ease as long as I can keep mine.
Before I buy that point you will have to show that Mac Pro business declined considerably in the last quarter of 2008. I don't know the figures and would not know how to get them.
I thought this was interesting:
http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/
I'd also not that I don't know about how many of you guys did, but I bought my Mac on educational discount, I did not pay the $2499 rack rate. There's also the developer connection discount, which is 20% with your membership.
http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/
I'd also not that I don't know about how many of you guys did, but I bought my Mac on educational discount, I did not pay the $2499 rack rate. There's also the developer connection discount, which is 20% with your membership.
http://www.thechannelcheckers.com/2...ales-slowing-no-discounting-on-mac-books-yet/
I'd be suprised if Apple's margins were ever thin, there is probably some variability in the deal they get from Intel and they must share some of the responsibility for high costs. They have a virtual monopoly (AMD are not that competitive at present) and have priced Nehalem processors very high but despite that I think Apple is also charging way over the odds on its part.
For most products greatly increasing the costs would greatly decrease demand. In a recession most other manufacturers do their best to keep prices down or even reduce them given customers are struggling.
I guess what you are saying is that Apple is accepting that it will lose all those customers who have a choice as they won't buy regardless. So the costs have to be made up from those who have to buy. To me it doesn't seem a very customer friendly approach - it is not really rewarding customer loyalty.
The only other alternatives were likely to lose money or kill the product. The former is not really rewarding to shareholders. The latter does no one any good.
Our opinions aren't that different but I think our perspectives are. Let's say I am running a business and I NEED 4 new Nehalem workstations. I need them to crunch data, render 3D, etc... whatever. Every bit of performance I can get means that I bring in more revenue. In my opinion those are the people that really benefit from the current architecture.
So I'm going to authorize the capital expenditure, but business being what it is:
-I'm not buying used stuff
-I'm not building hackintoshes
-I need top notch support
-I'm buying new gear... so I'm not going to consider refurbs
In that light, I'm basically looking at HP, Dell, Apple... I don't think Sun makes an octo... I'm considering the OSX vs. other OS thing based on what software we already use.
I think with the economy is where it is, Apple is reliant on this segment of the market to keep Mac Pro afloat. And for this segment of the market I don't think it's overpriced. Now... if you're Joe Enthusiast and WANT a Mac Pro then it's different. These boxes clearly aren't aimed at that segment and there would certainly be some pain inflicted during that purchase. That would be me by the way. I WANT a 2.66 Nehalem octo Mac Pro, but I don't need it. Therefore I'm running a Macbook Pro, a Mac Mini, and a 2.66 i7 hackintosh.
That's what I mean about value, overpriced, etc being relative terms. It's certainly less attractive for you or me, but I don't think it's overpriced for what it is... and for the audience that it's targeting. So we're back to someone's statement that it's too bad Apple doesn't have a product that targets the computer enthusiast. I know I'm certainly never buying any integrated solutions, the Mini is underpowered, and the Mac Pro is overkill.
I agree with this perspective from a business point of view. In addition, many businesses have a large investment in things like Adobe CS 4 that have limited options to change platforms.
An example is a former client, a rather large architect firm, at least before the recession clobbered them. At the high point, the had about 125 employees, most of the running the CS suite. They would replace about 1/3 other user machines per year, with the new machines going to the users with the most demanding requirements. The old machines would get passed down, and the oldest ones sold off.
Due to limited IT staff, they would always buy new. Any type of build it ourselves was out of the question. A good warranty and reliable equipment was always a requirement.
If the first could keep the creative folks productive, the return on investment was excellent. So a little more cost up front generally meant that they would buy one or two less units.
Chart needs to be quoted again.
We're literally into customer-shakedown territory for the 2009's.
Have you ever configured a Mac Pro to the max just to see how much that costs?
That aside, yes I do believe Mac Pros are vastly overpriced. Those specs for the Dell are comparable yet it is so much cheaper.
+1
On the whole, I think they are overpriced by today's standards. Though I will say ... I would love to have paid today's standard MP price for the Gateway 2000 Tower with 80486 processor I bought in the early 90s! I remember it costing over $4k
Yes, it has been well established that the Nehalem Mac Pros are the first Intel workstation Macs to include a severe Apple Tax. We've been over this.
I think it's funny to watch this thread.
Step 1: We all established MP is without doubt overpriced.
Step 2: Then some 1st time poster joins to say it's not.
Step 3: Then we all go back through it to show that it is.
Step 4: Go to Step 2. (ad infinitum).
I'm wondering how many of the "macrumors newbies" in Step 2 are financially invested in the perception and outcome.
Step 1: We all established MP is without doubt overpriced.
Step 2: Then some 1st time poster joins to say it's not.
Step 3: Then we all go back through it to show that it is.
Step 4: Go to Step 2. (ad infinitum).
I'm wondering how many of the "macrumors newbies" in Step 2 are financially invested in the perception and outcome.
I think it's funny to watch this thread.
I'm wondering how many of the "macrumors newbies" in Step 2 are financially invested in the perception and outcome.
is this a case of the Halting Problem (as in nobody knows the problem) or the Alderson Loop problem (the error is known but it cant be fixed until its finished going)???
Nope! It's ALL Apple. 100%.
1998 Apple Releases a 1 core G3 266MHz (AV) $2500 ... Speed increase from previous = more than 2X
2000 Apple Releases a 2 core G4 450MHz $2500 ... Speed increase from previous = more than 2X
2002 Apple Releases a 2 core G4 1.00GHz $2500 ... Speed increase from previous = more than 2X
2004 Apple Releases a 2 core G5 2.00 GHz $2500 ... Speed increase from previous = more than 2X
2006 Apple Releases a 4 core 2.66 GHz $2500 ... Speed increase from previous = more than 2X
2008 Apple Releases a 8 core 2.8 GHz $2700 ... Speed increase from previous = more than 2X
2009 Apple Releases a 8 core 2.66 GHz (w/HT) $4700 ... Speed difference = between 0.9X ~ 1.68X
Intel Processor Pricing (supplied by commander.dada)
- 2008 Models:
1 x 2.80GHz E5462 Harpertown: $797 ($2299 overall Mac Pro price)
2 x 2.80GHz E5462 Harpertown: $797 x 2 = $1594 ($2699 overall Mac Pro price)
2 x 3.00GHz X5472 Harptertown: $958 x 2 = $1914 ($3599 overall Mac Pro price)
2 x 3.20GHz X5482 Harpertown: $1279 x 2 = $2558 ($4399 overall Mac Pro price)
- 2009 Models:
1 x 2.66GHz W3520 Bloomfield: $284 ($2499 overall Mac Pro price)
1 x 2.93GHz W3540 Bloomfield: $562 ($2999 overall Mac Pro price)
2 x 2.26GHz E5520 Gainestown: $373 x 2 = $746 ($3299 overall Mac Pro price)
2 x 2.66GHz X5550 Gainestown: $958 x 2 = $1916 ($4699 overall Mac Pro price)
2 x 2.93GHz X5570 Gainestown: $1386 x 2 = $2772 ($5899 overall Mac Pro price)
What? Now you're reaching. The price of 2009 Intel Xeons is about the same or LESS than they were in 2008.
So any price hike in Apple Mac Pro computers is all due to Apple making it so.
So any price hike in Apple Mac Pro computers is all due to Apple making it so.
You're still ignoring the boards. It might not only be the chipset. Who designs and makes the boards?