Is this the end of my MBP? 😩

[Peter Franks]

Well, the Pro does have higher spec over the Air -- otherwise there wouldn't be any point. The Air is fanless, so if you are pushing the CPU hard, it will throttle the CPU; whereas the Pro will turn the fans on. (Though I've never pushed my M1 Pro MBP hard enough to hear the fans..!)
Yes, the speakers are better on the Pro, there are more ports; though the Air is lighter, if that's a consideration. You might want to check if the screens are the same quality. The Air is 13", rather than 14", don't forget.

As ever, when your budget constrains your choices, you'll have to make some compromises. By sacrificing the MBP in favour of the Air, you can spend more on higher spec RAM and storage. It's a thought.

I'd definitely go to an Apple Store and have a look at the Air and MBP, and see what you think. If you smile sweetly, they may even test the speakers for you.

What I'd give to have a machine that's fans don't come on for light web browsing... or YouTube 1080s. Not bothered about portability/weight anymore. I wonder how much I'd notice the difference going 13 to 14" screen. Living in London has had it's moments for me when carrying anything vaguely visibly Apple looking these days, cased or otherwise, so it won't be travelling much at all. I will go into Apple and check them out, thank you again. I don't know about the smiling sweetly bit though. For what they charge to go from 512 to 1TB they should be singing and dancing for me?

Speakers are good on the Air but better on the Pro especially the bigger one. Physics is at play here the more space and the better grill the better the sound. Notably the screen is much better on the new pros vs the air. Get the nano texture display if you do any work outside or near bright windows. The difference is night and day.

When you say it like that... it makes a lot of sense. The nano can only be purchased direct from Apple store I'm guessing. I don't really use outside, we don't have the weather for that sort of thing, but intrigued to see it now. Thank you

benwiggy advised:
"Alternatively, for £2000, I'd go with the base M4, but 24Gb RAM and 1 Tb storage."

Good advice for the future.

Peter Franks:
As I'll guess you've discovered by now, you CAN'T expand installed RAM or SSD size in the new m-series MacBooks.

But... the "pro" models (both m4 and m4pro) offer a nice complement of ports
3 thunderbolt/USBc
SD card slot
HDMI port
Headphone port

KEEP IN MIND that if you buy "a base model" with the minimum RAM and SSD size today, it's likely going to become very "constrained" as the requirements of the OS and software grow in the years to come.

So... grit your teeth and get something with "a little more" TODAY, to give it growing room for the years to come.

If it was me, I'd spring for 32 or 36gb of RAM. But 24 will do, certainly better than 16 or 18.

Does Apple have an online refurbished store in the UK?
If they do, you can save money by buying from them.
I've bought my last two Minis that way -- very satisfied.

Interesting what you say about the RAM Fish, I thought you'd say there was nothing much in it with the 16/24/32. Good advice, and yeh, the little more is needed. I'm amazed they're still putting in headphone ports. Thunderbolt USBc, I've never got the difference on them. So any old USB sticks needs adaptors, why do they do this. Even seeing those sticks on Amazon, they're mainly the old USB, hardly any 'C' on there. They do have the online refurbished here, but what amazed me was the savings were less than the discount you get on Amazon for a new one. What I saw was mainly £150/200/250 odd less than new, and that's pretty much a discount on a new, anywhere else but in an Apple store. The £1999 MBP on Apple is 1700 on Amazon. I don't know what the deal is with Amazon as regard to pros and cons, other than the fact you can't specify, memory, storage, nano texture etc.

 

[Peter Franks]

What I'd give to have a machine that's fans don't come on for light web browsing... or YouTube 1080s. Not bothered about portability/weight anymore. I wonder how much I'd notice the difference going 13 to 14" screen. Living in London has had it's moments for me when carrying anything vaguely visibly Apple looking these days, cased or otherwise, so it won't be travelling much at all. I will go into Apple and check them out, thank you again. I don't know about the smiling sweetly bit though. For what they charge to go from 512 to 1TB they should be singing and dancing for me?

When you say it like that... it makes a lot of sense. The nano can only be purchased direct from Apple store I'm guessing. I don't really use outside, we don't have the weather for that sort of thing, but intrigued to see it now. Thank you

Interesting what you say about the RAM Fish, I thought you'd say there was nothing much in it with the 16/24/32. Good advice, and yeh, the little more is needed. I'm amazed they're still putting in headphone ports. Thunderbolt USBc, I've never got the difference on them. So any old USB sticks needs adaptors, why do they do this. Even seeing those sticks on Amazon, they're mainly the old USB, hardly any 'C' on there. They do have the online refurbished here, but what amazed me was the savings were less than the discount you get on Amazon for a new one. What I saw was mainly £150/200/250 odd less than new, and that's pretty much a discount on a new, anywhere else but in an Apple store. The £1999 MBP on Apple is 1700 on Amazon. I don't know what the deal is with Amazon as regard to pros and cons, other than the fact you can't specify, memory, storage, nano texture etc.

Following on from this people,

Am I going to notice much difference between the 10/10 and 12/16 CPU, GPU, because the 1TB is a lot more tempting than the 512GB, for the same price? It's not a deal breaker if you tell me I'm going to notice a huge up on speed, but will there be that much difference, and to what, fans coming on etc? Thanks

 

[Fishrrman]

Looking at the above two models side-by-side...

Do you really think you'll need thunderbolt 5 instead of tbolt4 ?
Do you have need of the higher GPU capabilities?
Do you use many apps that require MORE THAN a single core?

I'd be leaning towards the m5 here, because:
1. 2x the SSD space
2. the "single-core" performance between the two of them is probably close
3. my "graphics needs" are satisfied "well enough" by the slightly less powerful GPU.

That extra SSD space may really come in handly 5 years down the line...

 

[Peter Franks]

Looking at the above two models side-by-side...

Do you really think you'll need thunderbolt 5 instead of tbolt4 ?
Do you have need of the higher GPU capabilities?
Do you use many apps that require MORE THAN a single core?

I'd be leaning towards the m5 here, because:
1. 2x the SSD space
2. the "single-core" performance between the two of them is probably close
3. my "graphics needs" are satisfied "well enough" by the slightly less powerful GPU.

That extra SSD space may really come in handly 5 years down the line...

Thank you, that’s pretty much what I want to hear.

I’ve used Garageband and iMovie, but have zero experience of Logic or Final Cut. I mainly use for Photoshop, a lot of emails, listening to music, web, plenty of YouTube, I do need to do Film and Music editing, but does Garage/iMovie still exist now, and will have to try web building again. 32GB would maybe be nice, but 24 it is, but hopefully won’t need with what I do. Although….. I’m amazed the M5 doesn’t come with any kind of Power Adapter.

I don’t know whether the CPU or GPU will make a difference to me? I don’t really understand it much if I’m honest.
For external drives I assume the Thunderbolt 4 or 5 is negligible. Not sure what else I’d need them for?

 

[galad]

You were using a 15 years old Mac… the base M5 CPU will be more than enough. Video and audio editing will still be so fast.

 

[Peter Franks]

You were using a 15 years old Mac… the base M5 CPU will be more than enough. Video and audio editing will still be so fast.

Embarrassingly true yes…. Various upgrades though 😎
Thanks yes, I am sure it will be good enough. Just wondered differences and getting my head round the techy stuff, CP,GP,U etc.

 

[Jonnod III]

Refurbished has been suggested. Here are the current UK refer machines

Refurbished Laptops - MacBook Pro - Apple (UK)

Save up to 15% on a refurbished MacBook Pro. Tested and certified by Apple including a 1-year warranty. Free delivery and returns.

www.apple.com

I've bought several refurbed machines. A better success rate with them than with new ones

 

[Peter Franks]

Refurbished has been suggested. Here are the current UK refer machines

Refurbished Laptops - MacBook Pro - Apple (UK)

Save up to 15% on a refurbished MacBook Pro. Tested and certified by Apple including a 1-year warranty. Free delivery and returns.

www.apple.com

I've bought several refurbed machines. A better success rate with them than with new ones

Thanks, when I looked at the newer models on there, the Amazon discounts were better for the new version, but assume this is better for the slightly older models. Are there drawbacks to buying Macs from Amazon as opposed to direct from Apple?

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Getting 14 years out of a laptop, especially one that has known hardware defects definitely qualifies as getting something out of it.

View attachment 2564262

At this point how much money and time are you willing to invest in something that is most likely not coming back?

Totally. I used my mid 2009 15"MBP for 14 yrs. Still can use it, albeit it being painfully slow. It's gone through sooo many batteries, fans, speakers (subs especially), screens, I/o boards, chargers and SSD's. My 3rd party insurer ended up ending our relationship due to making a rather big financial loss.

 

[Peter Franks]

Totally. I used my mid 2009 15"MBP for 14 yrs. Still can use it, albeit it being painfully slow. It's gone through sooo many batteries, fans, speakers (subs especially), screens, I/o boards, chargers and SSD's. My 3rd party insurer ended up ending our relationship due to making a rather big financial loss.

That's brave! batteries, SSD and RAM, that was my limit!! Anything over and above and I'd have had to bin it off years ago. I just hope whatever I get next, the fans won't run just from watching YouTube or on start up, like that did for umpteen years. Drove me mad

 

[ignatius345]

M4Pro
12-Core CPU
16-Core GPU
24GB Unified Memory
512GB SSD Storage

M4
10-Core CPU
10-Core GPU
16GB Unified Memory
512GB SSD Storage

If a 2011 Mac has been serving your needs thus far, IMO either of these will feel like a rocket in comparison.

The two most noticable differences will be bulk (the Air is very svelte) and display quality (the Pro has HDR, which can ramp up to incredible brightness with the right content). Both machines will deliver true all-day battery life and have no issues with your workload.

Since it sounds like you're used to keeping a Mac going for many years, I'd probably suggest the Pro with more RAM to account for future use.

 

[MacBH928]

i dont know what the problemw ith your computer, but if you are trying to save it, and the issue has to do with disk corruption, DiskWarrior saved me long time ago when my mac didn't boot. $110.

I suggest to check with them if it can fix your problem before paying the hefty price

ALSOFT - Makers of DiskWarrior.

DiskWarrior is a utility program designed from the ground up with a totally different approach to preventing and resolving directory damage.

www.alsoft.com

 

[MacBH928]

@Peter Franks @Alpha Centauri

consider installing linux on it if you want to extend its life. I hear ZorinOS, LinuxMint, Lubuntu works well.

 

[Peter Franks]

If a 2011 Mac has been serving your needs thus far, IMO either of these will feel like a rocket in comparison.

The two most noticable differences will be bulk (the Air is very svelte) and display quality (the Pro has HDR, which can ramp up to incredible brightness with the right content). Both machines will deliver true all-day battery life and have no issues with your workload.

Since it sounds like you're used to keeping a Mac going for many years, I'd probably suggest the Pro with more RAM to account for future use.

Thank you, yes I am probably almost certainly going to get another Pro. All day battery!!! Really? And less fans coming on every second too!!

i dont know what the problemw ith your computer, but if you are trying to save it, and the issue has to do with disk corruption, DiskWarrior saved me long time ago when my mac didn't boot. $110.

I suggest to check with them if it can fix your problem before paying the hefty price

ALSOFT - Makers of DiskWarrior.

DiskWarrior is a utility program designed from the ground up with a totally different approach to preventing and resolving directory damage.

www.alsoft.com

I think I will try and source a loan to replace it, rather than repair, Something else is bound to go on it which I won't be able to sort no doubt. I feel a bit of a plank still using a 2011 in 2025 really. Not so sure it is the disk now. But thanks.

@Peter Franks @Alpha Centauri

consider installing linux on it if you want to extend its life. I hear ZorinOS, LinuxMint, Lubuntu works well.

Thanks, I so wish I understood what that was. I even pay a yearly 'Linux home' for my website, and I still don't know what that means! I didn't even know you could put other OS on the Macs

 

[ignatius345]

All day battery!!! Really?

It's crazy how little power these Apple Silicon chips use.

So, I like to track my power consumption by running CoconutBattery in the menu bar, and have been doing it for a long time. At ~50% brightness I find my M4 Air pulls maybe 3-5 watts off the battery doing low demand tasks like writing. Doing the same kind of work, the last Intel Mac I had (2020 MacBook Air i5) would regularly be pulling like 10-15 watts, and the fan would be ramping up constantly because of all that heat. I was lucky to see 4 hours battery life on that thing. No exaggeration, I think I get triple the battery time now.

This is really a whole new paradigm for laptop usage IMO. I spent years always hunting for an opportunity to keep my MacBooks plugged in, eyeing tables near outlets and all that -- and now I just don't bother and charge it overnight like my phone.

 

[zgagato]

Thank you, yes I am probably almost certainly going to get another Pro. All day battery!!! Really? And less fans coming on every second too!!

Just to let you know, the Air has an 15" version now too. Great machine. For normal use better than the 14 MBP because its bigger and the weight is even less than the 14". Look in the refurb store for a M3 model with 24 gb of ram and a 1 TB SSD.

Air has only 2 tb/usb c ports but has a better keyboard than the pro and the bigger screen makes all the difference

 

[Peter Franks]

It's crazy how little power these Apple Silicon chips use.

So, I like to track my power consumption by running CoconutBattery in the menu bar, and have been doing it for a long time. At ~50% brightness I find my M4 Air pulls maybe 3-5 watts off the battery doing low demand tasks like writing. Doing the same kind of work, the last Intel Mac I had (2020 MacBook Air i5) would regularly be pulling like 10-15 watts, and the fan would be ramping up constantly because of all that heat. I was lucky to see 4 hours battery life on that thing. No exaggeration, I think I get triple the battery time now.

This is really a whole new paradigm for laptop usage IMO. I spent years always hunting for an opportunity to keep my MacBooks plugged in, eyeing tables near outlets and all that -- and now I just don't bother and charge it overnight like my phone.

I have replaced the battery in mine 4 times now. Each and every one has been rubbish! The first time I replaced it, was with a genuine Apple replacement, and it was not close to original, the last one I replaced was a Duracell, which would go to 25% then 4% in about 3 minutes. It was never accurate, and the Coconut app says battery status: GOOD. It isn't. Thanks for that, it's always good to know, as I have zero clue since the old MBP

Just to let you know, the Air has an 15" version now too. Great machine. For normal use better than the 14 MBP because its bigger and the weight is even less than the 14". Look in the refurb store for a M3 model with 24 gb of ram and a 1 TB SSD.

Air has only 2 tb/usb c ports but has a better keyboard than the pro and the bigger screen makes all the difference

Oh this has now torn it! I was all set, and now you mention 15' and I'm struggling again! That does sound appealing, 16 was OTT for me, 13 is what I'm used to, but as you know, the old MBP is a big black border and not ideal.... I'm going to have to go check out. I used to be in the Apple stores loads, but I've not been near one now for at least a year. So it's time. Why would the keyboard be better on the Air v the Pro?

 

[Bigwaff]

Air has only 2 tb/usb c ports but has a better keyboard than the pro

MBA has same keyboard as MBP. What is better?

 

[zgagato]

I have replaced the battery in mine 4 times now. Each and every one has been rubbish! The first time I replaced it, was with a genuine Apple replacement, and it was not close to original, the last one I replaced was a Duracell, which would go to 25% then 4% in about 3 minutes. It was never accurate, and the Coconut app says battery status: GOOD. It isn't. Thanks for that, it's always good to know, as I have zero clue since the old MBP

Oh this has now torn it! I was all set, and now you mention 15' and I'm struggling again! That does sound appealing, 16 was OTT for me, 13 is what I'm used to, but as you know, the old MBP is a big black border and not ideal.... I'm going to have to go check out. I used to be in the Apple stores loads, but I've not been near one now for at least a year. So it's time. Why would the keyboard be better on the Air v the Pro?

in MBP thekeys are surrounded by plastic frame and in the air is lake the older mbp surrounded by unibody topcase.
it just feels better to type.

The difference in screen size of the 15 air is substantial , worth to look.

 

[goldmac2006]

Try to boot from an external disk. It could be that the internal SATA is not working anymore. It happens often on those models.

The 🚫 symbol usually indicates that there is macOS version but the Mac doesn’t seem to detect it properly. It also means your SSD or RAM isn’t working. Apple explains this in their support page: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101666.

Also, do you hear any beeping when you try to start it, or is the Mac startup sound coming through?

Apple has some guidance on booting from USB sticks and external SSDs: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101578.

For your MacBook Pro 💻 2011, you can download the macOS Sierra build from the link below (make sure to use a different Mac to download it and follow the instructions above 👆🏻).

How to download and install macOS - Apple Support

Download and install current or previous versions of the Mac operating system on compatible Mac computers.

support.apple.com

Check out the list of Dmgs that contain the macOS Sierra file and download it. Then, put it on the USB stick connected to the secondary Mac. (You might need to use Terminal or open the Dmg to get the package file.)

 

[Bigwaff]

in MBP thekeys are surrounded by plastic frame and in the air is lake the older mbp surrounded by unibody topcase.
it just feels better to type.

Ah.. but that not the keys themselves, which are the same switches.

 

[ignatius345]

I have replaced the battery in mine 4 times now.

One huge side benefit of lower power consumption is that you put way fewer power cycles on the battery because you're not charging as often.

According to a diagnostic I just ran (DriveDx) my current M4 Air has a "power on" time of 450 hours, and only 37 battery cycles thus far. That works out to 12.16 hours per battery cycle. Not bad! My last Intel Air would probably have done 100 battery cycles with that same usage, I'm guessing. So, at this rate, this battery will last a long time.

 

[Peter Franks]

in MBP thekeys are surrounded by plastic frame and in the air is lake the older mbp surrounded by unibody topcase.
it just feels better to type.

The difference in screen size of the 15 air is substantial , worth to look.

Something else to check out, thanks. That's exactly what I'm used to. It's a good point.

The 🚫 symbol usually indicates that there is macOS version but the Mac doesn’t seem to detect it properly. It also means your SSD or RAM isn’t working. Apple explains this in their support page: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101666.

Also, do you hear any beeping when you try to start it, or is the Mac startup sound coming through?

Apple has some guidance on booting from USB sticks and external SSDs: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101578.

For your MacBook Pro 💻 2011, you can download the macOS Sierra build from the link below (make sure to use a different Mac to download it and follow the instructions above 👆🏻).

How to download and install macOS - Apple Support

Download and install current or previous versions of the Mac operating system on compatible Mac computers.

support.apple.com

Check out the list of Dmgs that contain the macOS Sierra file and download it. Then, put it on the USB stick connected to the secondary Mac. (You might need to use Terminal or open the Dmg to get the package file.)

Thank you, I had that beep once, and I took out the upgraded 4 x 2 sticks, and replaced with the original 2 x 2 RAM, which initially actually started it up. I have thought about buying some new 8 x 2 but want to see if anyone will give me finance on a replacement,

Ah.. but that not the keys themselves, which are the same switches.

It will be interesting to try both in store. Never realised that, just assumed they'd be the same. I'm so used to the old style.

One huge side benefit of lower power consumption is that you put way fewer power cycles on the battery because you're not charging as often.

According to a diagnostic I just ran (DriveDx) my current M4 Air has a "power on" time of 450 hours, and only 37 battery cycles thus far. That works out to 12.16 hours per battery cycle. Not bad! My last Intel Air would probably have done 100 battery cycles with that same usage, I'm guessing. So, at this rate, this battery will last a long time.

I always found the cycles a bit off. When battery was new, Coconut always showed me more than I thought I'd charged. When it wasn't a full cycle, and only charged half, it still counted as a full cycle, so was never sure how accurate it was. But the dropping from 20 or 25% to 10 and 5% within minutes has been a thing with all my aftermarket batteries?

 

[goldmac2006]

One huge side benefit of lower power consumption is that you put way fewer power cycles on the battery because you're not charging as often.

According to a diagnostic I just ran (DriveDx) my current M4 Air has a "power on" time of 450 hours, and only 37 battery cycles thus far. That works out to 12.16 hours per battery cycle. Not bad! My last Intel Air would probably have done 100 battery cycles with that same usage, I'm guessing. So, at this rate, this battery will last a long time.

My MacBook Pro M4 Pro still has a low cycle count! I last checked it, and it was around 37 cycles, and I’ve had it since July. It’s always plugged in on my desk and only unplugged when I’m traveling or heading to the living room. My iPhone 15 pro, while it’s battery is dated may 2024 but I owned it since January, is at 486 cycles at 91% battery health. My Mac is still at 100% like the beginning.

I also use the Al Dente app, the battery stats and charge limit app that my friend uses, and he has a similar MacBook Pro like mine. Also got the full version from an in app purchase. We both bought our Macs around the same time.

Something else to check out, thanks. That's exactly what I'm used to. It's a good point.


Thank you, I had that beep once, and I took out the upgraded 4 x 2 sticks, and replaced with the original 2 x 2 RAM, which initially actually started it up. I have thought about buying some new 8 x 2 but want to see if anyone will give me finance on a replacement,


It will be interesting to try both in store. Never realised that, just assumed they'd be the same. I'm so used to the old style.


I always found the cycles a bit off. When battery was new, Coconut always showed me more than I thought I'd charged. When it wasn't a full cycle, and only charged half, it still counted as a full cycle, so was never sure how accurate it was. But the dropping from 20 or 25% to 10 and 5% within minutes has been a thing with all my aftermarket batteries?

Good call! A single beep rly makes sense that it’s a RAM problem associated with the restricted 🚫 screen at startup. So was the RAM sticks faulty or is it the amount that isn’t compatible with your MacBook Pro 💻?

 

[Luis Ortega]

I have tried numerous times to switch on, and if I ever get past the log in, in less than a minute the first ‘problem’ pic appears, followed by the second, and then sits on apple logo till I power off. Or more often than not, it turns itself off. Nothing seems to help. I tried to start in safe, but that fails also, and I dare say would switch itself off again if it ever did.

Question being, I realise this is a 2011 MBP running High Sierra and it owes me nothing, but I’ve relied on it most days and it would be good to get something out of it. I don’t find the iPad I’m on now as easy to do stuff on at all. I’d like to think the SSD is still OK, but I’m beginning to wonder, as my last back up is a fair while ago. Any advice, other than throw it away, would be most appreciated.

I assume the problem isn’t because of the drive as it switches off and is deeper than that? Or I’d swap out drive.

Thanks for any help.
View attachment 2561995View attachment 2561996View attachment 2561994

I lost my 17” 2007 MBP in 2021. I mourned it since it served me very well for 12 years and it was completely user serviceable.
It just gave up turning on. It’s still on a shelf somewhere.
Good luck.