Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iSlate Input Alternatives: Handwriting Recognition Without a Stylus and Much More
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Back-Side Interface for Hand-Held Devices
Maybe it be like what is described in this patent from Apple, which was linked on MacRumors
They note:
Then describing their solution:
Scope of the invention:
Maybe it be like what is described in this patent from Apple, which was linked on MacRumors
They note:
Then describing their solution:
Scope of the invention:
They've been considering the idea since at least 2007.
Article Link: Advanced Multitouch Gesturing Patents
Add a hinge and a physical keyboard and the iSlate can sit on your lap! I shall dub thee the Laptop. The future us here!
" intuitive multi-touch input device that adapts to the user's intent. "
That statement screams 100% Apple.
Any good interface is contextual. If the content displayed is contextual, why not make the way you interact with it contextual as well?
That statement screams 100% Apple.
Any good interface is contextual. If the content displayed is contextual, why not make the way you interact with it contextual as well?
They should just include the damn stylus, it's really not that big of a deal and you can do more with it than just write words
I used to carry around a Fujitsu P1510D Tablet PC and since I work as an engineer, one of the best parts about it was I could pull out the stylus, draw a schematic or circuit directly into MS Outlook and email it to technicians in the field in a matter of seconds. It made my life easier because without it, I'd have to deliver a hard copy or scan a PDF to email.
With a stylus, there's also potential overlap with the world of digital painting. Imagine if you had a tablet that could do whatever conventional tablets do and also serve as a portable digital canvas. Untapped market right there
I used to carry around a Fujitsu P1510D Tablet PC and since I work as an engineer, one of the best parts about it was I could pull out the stylus, draw a schematic or circuit directly into MS Outlook and email it to technicians in the field in a matter of seconds. It made my life easier because without it, I'd have to deliver a hard copy or scan a PDF to email.
With a stylus, there's also potential overlap with the world of digital painting. Imagine if you had a tablet that could do whatever conventional tablets do and also serve as a portable digital canvas. Untapped market right there
Most people hold a pen with their fingers slightly above the the surface, which would leave room for an on screen arrow or input related pen tip. When you lay your hand on the tablet like you are going to write, the on screen pen appears and tracks your movements. It's like your hand is connected to the virtual on screen pen. If you used just one finger and pressed it to the screen surface, you would not be able to clearly see the exact point of the input location which is very important for fine detail.
Precision is the thing that is lacking in a single finger input system. Think about how a Wacom Cintique would operate without the need for a pen. Although, there would also need to be some means of indicating a lift and a drop of the pen to the virtual paper surface. If there was a dot that indicated your relative location and a small pen shaped cursor that separated from the dot as you lifted your hand, you would then have visual feedback to indicate when the pen was on the digital surface and when it was off. But without some form of physical feedback, this would take some getting used to.
Ah yes, thats what I was talking about in my post on the previous page, more or less. I knew I hadn't thought of it. Still seems like the very best way to do it.
I suppose just holding it in your left hand while typing with the right, like a Honey-I-Blew-Up-The-iPhone might work, if its not too heavy. But I dont think a one-handed grip on a 10" tablet will feel nearly as comfortable as on an iPhone. I just tried holding a paperback in one hand, and it felt reasonably secure. But it doesnt cost upward of $500 or have breakable parts.
depends on your writing style. for me, my fingers aren't moving as much as pen because i dont hold a pen at the point of contact with paper. where i grip the pen serves as a center point for all movement, and thus smaller movements at this point creates larger movements at the bottom of the penshaft, where the tip is. yea what she said
not to mention, i can't even write half a page w/out my hand/arm getting tired because i never write freehand anymore. having to do anything extensive even with a stylus would be slow. but maybe keyboards are yesterday's technology, and while i can type 60+wpm, kids will be able to "fakepen" 75+wpm in 2025.
I couldn't agree more. In fact on the point about writing on a computer being an "awful idea", I believe "writing" on the computer screen is even more fatiguing than writing on paper.
I remember back in the days of my iPaq. The handwriting interpreter was actually pretty accurate yet still frustrating to use. I'll take pushing a button with the letter 'A' on it over drawing a letter 'A' any day.
Heck, I'd be curious to see a manufacturer attempt to use a small hard keyboard buttons where each of the thumbs would naturally be on the tablet and see how that feels. I still can type much much faster and fatigue free on my large BB Bold keyboard than I can on my Touch or short lived iPhone. I just personally don't feel touching a glass panel to type is all that fun. Great for everything else though.
Mike
If you buy a product at an Apple store and pay by credit card, you sign for it with your finger/fingernail on the iTouch screen of the device used to swipe the card.
It would offend Steve, but the device could have several methods, one of which is a deployable chicklet keyboard, another of which is a laser keyboard.
Rocketman
It would offend Steve, but the device could have several methods, one of which is a deployable chicklet keyboard, another of which is a laser keyboard.
Rocketman
Writing on a computer is not meant to take the place of typing, but it sure can facilitate a quick sketch being done and dropped into an email. or allow you to sign a document or annotate an existing image with arrows, lines and text. Text input will always be faster and more accurate on a keyboard of some type.
I hate split keyboards, I can't even type a word with them. It just doesn't work for me. I also hate styluses, I like my portable devices to be made out of one part, and nothing extra can can be lost or dropped. I'm sure that's also why Apple hates styluses too. For me at least, handwriting is way slower than typing, so any sort of handwriting recognition would make text input much slower than with a real or virtual keyboard (for me). I can type faster on my iPod Touch than I can write. Plus handwriting recognition is still way too bad today, there would be a mistake in every word, it's totally unreliable.
So I have no idea how it will work, but trust Apple, they won't make some stupid compromise (I hope). Voice recognition is also stupid: you don't want to talk to a device while other people are around, it's just embarrassing and makes you look like a retard.
The only think I can imagine is a keyboard very similar to that on the iPhone. If it would be too big on a 10 inch screen, why not make the keyboard smaller then?
So I have no idea how it will work, but trust Apple, they won't make some stupid compromise (I hope). Voice recognition is also stupid: you don't want to talk to a device while other people are around, it's just embarrassing and makes you look like a retard.
The only think I can imagine is a keyboard very similar to that on the iPhone. If it would be too big on a 10 inch screen, why not make the keyboard smaller then?
I am so bored with the iSlate rumor
I am too, but I have to say that Apple products that have this many rumors tend to be really great! In my memory the last products to have this level of buzz were the iPhone and iPod Touch/"Video iPod".
Having said that, I'm in the market for a MBP and I'm waiting for the i5s to be put in. Hopefully they will announce i5 MBPs on the 27th. It's gonna kill me to see the uber-coolness of the tablet and "settle" for a more practical laptop.
That's progress!I mentioned exactly this a few weeks ago. I remember seeing a Japanese company selling projected laser pens as virtual keyboards. It wouldn't be difficult to build one into a tablet device, especially if the internal components can fit into something as small as a pen. A laser projected virtual keyboard would be perfect for docking a tablet form.
Assuming that people still write with pens, it shouldn't be a "steep learning curve" to handwrite. Perhaps there is come training involved in order for the tablet to adapt to individual handwriting styles. Apple did re-hire an engineer who once worked on handwriting recognition technology for the Newton. It would not be a far leap to assume that Apple may be intending on utilizing advanced handwriting recognition as one of a few human input device methods.
The input method is one of the major drawbacks of the tablet form-factor and that's why a smart Apple would choose to avoid it at all cost.
Instead they only need to upgrade their MacBooks so that instead of the keyboard and trackpad there will be a multi-touch screen which will show a normal-sized virtual keyboard. The main screen might also serve as a touch screen but only for occasional touches (not for typing).
If they are smarter than that they'll even recognize the need to use multi-touch on desktop computers and release a device which replaces the keyboard and mouse with a touch screen so that everyone with a relatively new Mac would be able to enjoy multi-touch instead of wasting money on a useless eye-candy like a tablet.
Instead they only need to upgrade their MacBooks so that instead of the keyboard and trackpad there will be a multi-touch screen which will show a normal-sized virtual keyboard. The main screen might also serve as a touch screen but only for occasional touches (not for typing).
If they are smarter than that they'll even recognize the need to use multi-touch on desktop computers and release a device which replaces the keyboard and mouse with a touch screen so that everyone with a relatively new Mac would be able to enjoy multi-touch instead of wasting money on a useless eye-candy like a tablet.
No, it's not.
I use it all the time on my tablet PC and it recognizes pretty much everything perfectly. The onscreen keyboard is a pain to use though - tapping away with thy stylus.
If the idea of the fake stylus is true, wouldn't that mean that you can then use anything as a stylus, because it would only track your hand?
Why would you ever want write near the edge of a screen? I imagine you place your cursor somewhere and then start scribbling anywhere on the screen. I imagine you wouldn't even have to move your hand steadily to the right as you do on paper, you'd just continually write one letter on top of the other. The text then gets sent to the cursor's position.
This could work. Ideally the reticle would be offset somewhat from your pinched fingers, so they didn't obscure the point of your virtual pen.
This is encouraging; a virtual keyboard would have been a fatal flaw. Now I just hope it runs OS X and has a transflective screen. And insane battery life.
This is encouraging; a virtual keyboard would have been a fatal flaw. Now I just hope it runs OS X and has a transflective screen. And insane battery life.
Interesting, complex problem.
First of all, you have several kinds of people. Some touch type, some don't. Some like physical keys, some like touch screens. I'll bet there are other divisions we don't know of just as we know some people are auditory learners and some are visual learners.
So first of all, Apple needs to accommodate the current level of training in people as well as the younger crowd coming along every year who are not predisposed to any input method. In a way this is like when typewriters were first coming on the scene.
Writing out letters by tracing them out on paper is not really fast, but it is accurate and it is all you can do with a pen or pencil. If you have a touch screen and a computer I doubt they would go for tracing out letters. Too tedious, but easy to understand.
Clever gestures can be used to speed things up immensely, but they require the user to learn the gestures. Look at Gregg Shorthand. A stenographer can write over 150wpm with simple gestures, essentially different angled swipes and taps. A downside is that there is no visual prompting as you get with a keyboard. You have to remember all the strokes, about 200 depending on the variety of shorthand.
An on screen keyboard has the advantage of giving you a visual prompt, you can see the character you want to enter, and it takes just a single tap, but hunt-and-peck is slow and tedious. Again, it takes time to learn to go fast.
I think Apple will go for multiple input methods. For us old folks who know how to type there will be some sort of on-screen keyboard. This also works for the casual user as no training is required.
For the tweens and teens there will be some sort of gesture based input like shorthand. They will pick it up in a month or so (think of texting) and will live with this for the rest of their lives. It will be very fast but will require a steep learning curve.
It would also be great if voice input could be used. If only to offer input methods for people with poor eyesight or poor motor skills. Also good for the rest of us as long as we have a relatively quiet area to work in.
First of all, you have several kinds of people. Some touch type, some don't. Some like physical keys, some like touch screens. I'll bet there are other divisions we don't know of just as we know some people are auditory learners and some are visual learners.
So first of all, Apple needs to accommodate the current level of training in people as well as the younger crowd coming along every year who are not predisposed to any input method. In a way this is like when typewriters were first coming on the scene.
Writing out letters by tracing them out on paper is not really fast, but it is accurate and it is all you can do with a pen or pencil. If you have a touch screen and a computer I doubt they would go for tracing out letters. Too tedious, but easy to understand.
Clever gestures can be used to speed things up immensely, but they require the user to learn the gestures. Look at Gregg Shorthand. A stenographer can write over 150wpm with simple gestures, essentially different angled swipes and taps. A downside is that there is no visual prompting as you get with a keyboard. You have to remember all the strokes, about 200 depending on the variety of shorthand.
An on screen keyboard has the advantage of giving you a visual prompt, you can see the character you want to enter, and it takes just a single tap, but hunt-and-peck is slow and tedious. Again, it takes time to learn to go fast.
I think Apple will go for multiple input methods. For us old folks who know how to type there will be some sort of on-screen keyboard. This also works for the casual user as no training is required.
For the tweens and teens there will be some sort of gesture based input like shorthand. They will pick it up in a month or so (think of texting) and will live with this for the rest of their lives. It will be very fast but will require a steep learning curve.
It would also be great if voice input could be used. If only to offer input methods for people with poor eyesight or poor motor skills. Also good for the rest of us as long as we have a relatively quiet area to work in.
It's hard to say what Apple is going to do.. but if I myself was designing the tablet I would choose to use different typing inputs for different seating arrangements and ways of holding the tablet.
1. If the tablet was being used as a keyboard and mouse replacement for your primary PC (which is my hope) then I would use a conventional typing system as the FingerWorks keyboard did and all kinds of weird custom keyboard designs for different applications -- with sliders and shuttles and drawing pads.
2. If I was seated at a desk and just doing some light key input while surfing the internet with the tablet in a horizontal configuration then I would use a small virtual keyboard like on the iPhone OR handwriting recognition.
3. If I was doing heavy text input when mobile -- sitting in a desk at school or on the couch -- I would use a unique typing system to the tablet -- I would want to hold the tablet cradled in one arm and use the system where the keys appear wherever you put your 5 fingers.. but you would use a chording method and input all the characters with just one hand and use the hand that is cradling the tablet as the chording hand like on the fretboard of a guitar.
This system would also allow very large keys.. which I think would speed up typing dramatically when mobile. There would be a learning curve but I think it would be worth it for comfort and because it would be much faster than other mobile devices method of input. You could also use handwriting recognition in this configuration.
1. If the tablet was being used as a keyboard and mouse replacement for your primary PC (which is my hope) then I would use a conventional typing system as the FingerWorks keyboard did and all kinds of weird custom keyboard designs for different applications -- with sliders and shuttles and drawing pads.
2. If I was seated at a desk and just doing some light key input while surfing the internet with the tablet in a horizontal configuration then I would use a small virtual keyboard like on the iPhone OR handwriting recognition.
3. If I was doing heavy text input when mobile -- sitting in a desk at school or on the couch -- I would use a unique typing system to the tablet -- I would want to hold the tablet cradled in one arm and use the system where the keys appear wherever you put your 5 fingers.. but you would use a chording method and input all the characters with just one hand and use the hand that is cradling the tablet as the chording hand like on the fretboard of a guitar.
This system would also allow very large keys.. which I think would speed up typing dramatically when mobile. There would be a learning curve but I think it would be worth it for comfort and because it would be much faster than other mobile devices method of input. You could also use handwriting recognition in this configuration.