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It doesn't even deserve the name "Pro".
- Thread starter Blackberryroid
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derbothaus
macrumors 601
Who cares? If you need something telling you you are pro you are not. It is pretty easy. If you make money doing it it makes you a professional.
"A professional is a person who is paid to undertake a specialized set of tasks and to complete them for a fee" -Wikipedia define.
I would define the 13" as pro thanks to included ports. It is more IT pro than a retina actually. Retina is definitely moving into consumer land of WiFi only/ Apple Store/ iLife ecosystem.
No one is disputing whether marketing did their job or not. It's the manner in which it is used which is in contention here.
The OP and I (and several others) agree that the "Pro" moniker shouldn't be used due to exactly that effect: misleading consumers. There's no debate on how effective the marketing is.
dejo
Moderator emeritus
Buying a computer based solely on its name and not investigating it any further sounds rather unprofessional to me. 😀
GGJstudios
macrumors Westmere
If any consumer is misled into buying a computer because of the "Pro" label, they have no one but themselves to blame. Anyone seeking a higher level of computing capabilities should know better than to trust the marketing name of a computer, rather than reading the specifications. You seem to want to put the blame on Apple if someone buys a MacBook Pro and it doesn't meet their needs or expectations. The only one to blame in that case is the consumer, who didn't do even rudimentary homework before buying. The only ones "falling for" the "Pro" designation are those who are so naive they shouldn't be making their own buying decisions in the first place. They should let mom and dad buy for them until they mature enough to be able to intelligently buy a computer.
ixodes
macrumors 601
One of my favorites of all the Mac laptops I currently have is...
My fully maxed out SSD equipped 15" 2011 MacBook Pro
I find this one of the very best of all the Mac Laptops I've owned over the two decades as a loyal Apple Computer user.
Pro? Absolutely!
Oh sure it's not quite as fully loaded as my new workstation class ThinkPad W530, but for all intents and purposes it's a terrific Mac that I rely on and enjoy very much.
If you want to be picky, there's lots of laptops out there to be critical of, but MBP's are not one of them.
Cheers 🙂
The fact remains however, it does happen to a very wide extent, and Apple's marketing is exacerbating the condition and they are at least partially responsible for this "unprofessional" situation.
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Why should the consumer be the sole one to blame when others are actively seeking to mislead them?
That's like saying we shouldn't put 419 scammers in jail just because people are stupid and fall into those scams and they deserve to lose their life savings...
The average consumer isn't going to research for "higher level of computing capability", they'll just trust that Apple put Pro on their machine and therefore it should have a higher level of computing capability.
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This thread isn't about the MBP15, it's about the 13 and why it doesn't deserve the Pro moniker. I agree 100% that the MBP15 should have Pro.
GGJstudios
macrumors Westmere
Apple's use of "MacBook Pro" is not misleading. It's a marketing term. If anyone is misled by that, it's because they're reading too much into the "Pro" name, which is no one's fault but the consumer. The consumer is the only one to blame because they are the only one who decides to part with their money. If they do so strictly based on the name of a product, they have made a colossally stupid decision, and deserve whatever they get. I know 12 year olds who understand this principle.
If that's the way they buy a computer, they don't need any more than what they get by buying that way.
I don't know anything about you and I'm making no assumptions, but your argument displays an apparent embarrassing level of inexperience and naïveté. It sounds like someone who has just reached the age where they finally have a little of their own money and are just learning how to buy things. If that's the case, they should let their parents teach them about the "big bad world" before they go off on their own. Whatever they do, they should NEVER try to buy a used car! 🙄
Again, are you seriously arguing that an entity misleading someone to give them their money is ethically and morally ok? I know 12 years old that understand that concept too.
I'm not arguing my own case. I know exactly what to look to when I buy a computer, thank you very much. I'm arguing because a large proportion of people I work with, or are friends with, display this "embarassing level of inexperience and naïveté", that you seem to imply are the domain of 12-year-olds.
GGJstudios
macrumors Westmere
That doesn't describe Apple. They made no claims about their products or about the "Pro" designation that aren't factual.
Then they shouldn't make their own buying decisions. They should get help from someone who knows what they're doing. Making a good buying decision on a computer requires more intelligence and information than buying a pack of gum. In the same way, people who don't know what to look for and who don't know what they're doing shouldn't buy a used car. They should consult with a friend or family member who knows what to look for and what to avoid. I've provided this kind of help to friends and family for decades, on both computer and car purchases.
It's common sense to ask someone to help with a buying decision if you don't know what you're doing. If you choose to buy without doing so, you get what you get. Blaming the manufacturer or store or seller for an uninformed buying decision on the part of the buyer is ridiculous. The seller is responsible to make money for the seller, not to make sure the buyer gets the best deal or gets exactly what they need. This is true in any arena where goods and services are bought and sold.
No, I indicated that I know 12 year olds who know better.
Yes it does.
People won't go seek help if they think they can trust Apple, which is what their advertising does. Even those that do come to me for help often go on to completely ignore my advice and purchase the device which is objectively an inferior purchase for them just because of the name and the price of the device.
Which do you think is a better explanation for this? Because marketing tells them this device is better or because solely because they are naive and have too much money to burn?
I seem to recall some interview given by Jony Ive that is the opposite of what you are saying: http://www.macgasm.net/2012/07/30/apple-isnt-all-about-cash-prefers-good-products/
Krazy Bill
macrumors 68030
And technically, the word "Pro" is incomplete. No where do they mention it as "Professional".
For all we know, they could mean:
MacBook Probable
MacBook Problematic
MacBook Procrastinator
MacBook Procreate 🙂
Clever bastards! 😀
End of discussion. Thread closed.
GGJstudios
macrumors Westmere
Describe specifically how Apple misrepresented any capabilities of the MacBook Pro. Describe where Apple even defined what the "Pro" designation means or how it differs from other models. Apple made no such representations that were false or misleading. You're reading into what "Pro" means and assigning it your own definition, which is truly misleading, since Apple doesn't have to conform to your own made-up definition of what "Pro" means.
Then the problem lies with those consumers, not Apple. The fact that they ignore informed advice and buy instead based on a product name means they're being foolish. It's their fault and no one else's.
Obviously, the latter. Anyone who buys anything purely on advertising is a foolish buyer.
I have no idea who Jony Ive is and I don't care. Anyone who expects a company selling a product to put the buyer's interests before their own is foolish. Period.
Pro stands for Professional. Professionals in most fields are known to demand the best from their tools as compared to the amateurs. Therefore, the Pro moniker represents the best that Apple has the ability to offer (but which is not clearly not the case).
Your logic makes no sense.
There's no need to market the device if buyers are naive enough to purchase it anyways because they've got cash to burn. Apple's marketing is moving buyers who would otherwise not purchase the machine.
Ok then you're calling the Senior Vice President of Industrial Design at Apple stupid. Here's a little bit from Wikipedia.
WIKIPEDIA said:
GGJstudios
macrumors Westmere
Quote where Apple said that about the MacBook Pro.
Again, you're making it up as you go along, assigning your own definitions where Apple hasn't specified what "Pro" means. There is no universally-adopted standard for what constitutes "Pro" products; only individual opinions. You still haven't specified where Apple misrepresented anything about the MacBook Pro. I'm still waiting for facts, not your preconceived and biased opinions.
Duh! That's what marketing is supposed to do!
Your reading comprehension is on par with your grasp of this topic. Quote where I called anyone stupid.
This argument has grown tiresome and ridiculously foolish. If you're going to make a big deal about the use of "Pro" in MacBook Pro, then you should file class-action lawsuits against hundreds of companies because of misleading branding, like these examples:
- Ford's Mustang isn't a horse.
- Toshiba's Satellite doesn't orbit the Earth.
- GlimmerBlocker fails to block glimmers.
- coconutBattery is not made of, does not smell like and does not taste like coconuts.
- Green Giant has no giants in their products or working in their company.
If you can't grasp the concept that a marketing name is just a name and doesn't have to specifically or accurately describe the product, then there's no hope for you until you gain a bit more education and experience in the real world. Either you're simply not teachable or you're being deliberately obtuse, for the sake of dragging on the discussion. Either way, I'm done with this nonsense. 🙄
http://www.abbreviations.com/PRO
The only PRO that applies to this context is "professional".
There are however, universally accepted rules for grammar. When you describe an object as "X Pro" you are describing a Pro version of X. Combined with the previous explanation of what Pro stands for. An Macbook Pro will be accepted by most audiences as a professional version of a Macbook.
Once we have established that the product is a professional version of the Macbook, we can expect it to be the best the Apple has the ability to offer (which is not the case).
Again, no. Marketing's purpose is not to misinform a user so that he/she purchases a product when another product exists that better suits his/her needs.
None of the above names use adjectives in their names that can reasonably be construed as attempting to describe their product functionality, so they are all red herrings.
Your repeated ad hominem attacks are very telling.
Krazy Bill
macrumors 68030
From your very own link:
pro(adv.)
in favor of a proposition, opinion, etc.
😀
Seriously, assuming you convince everyone in this thread it's not a "Pro" machine, what does that get you?
talmy
macrumors 601
How about this -- remove the "Pro" from the Apple computers that have it in their names, since it is unnecessary. This means the Mac Pro becomes the Mac and the MacBook Pro becomes the MacBook. Then take the entry level models in all the lines and add "Junior" to their descriptions. So we get:
13" MacBook Pro becomes 13" MacBook Junior
11" MacBook Air becomes 11" Macbook Junior Pilot
Mac mini becomes the Mac Junior
That should keep everyone happy! 🙂
13" MacBook Pro becomes 13" MacBook Junior
11" MacBook Air becomes 11" Macbook Junior Pilot
Mac mini becomes the Mac Junior
That should keep everyone happy! 🙂
sofianito
macrumors 65816
Jare
macrumors 65816
a) A real pro can afford a MacBook Pro without complaining like a prepubescent girl. b) Your name is "AzN1337c0d3r" therefor your opinion means absolutely nothing.
/thread @ "A real pro can afford a MacBook Pro without complaining"
I can't believe this HP Probook only has integrated graphics and dual core. HP really should watch what they label pro.
Why does this Centon Datastick Pro only have 8gb of storage? Pros need more than 8gb or else they wouldn't be so pro.
Why hello there LG Optimus Pro, how can you be such a pro with only a 240x320 screen?
Why does this Centon Datastick Pro only have 8gb of storage? Pros need more than 8gb or else they wouldn't be so pro.
Why hello there LG Optimus Pro, how can you be such a pro with only a 240x320 screen?
tech4all
macrumors 68040
Wow argueing about what "Pro" means 🙄
What's so hard to get, the OP is basically saying that a "Pro" machine is obviousness designed for high end tasks. Thus it should have impressive specs.
Now one could argue a "pro banker" who uses MS Office all day doesn't need a "Pro" machine. So a "Pro Mac" isn't needed and they would do just fine with a MacBook Air or something.
So it comes down to low-end vs. high-end. Low-end computer have lower specs. Higher-end computer have higher specs. And the MacBook Pro doesn't quite have all the high end specs a pro/high-end machine is expected to have.
Back to reality . . . 😀
What's so hard to get, the OP is basically saying that a "Pro" machine is obviousness designed for high end tasks. Thus it should have impressive specs.
Now one could argue a "pro banker" who uses MS Office all day doesn't need a "Pro" machine. So a "Pro Mac" isn't needed and they would do just fine with a MacBook Air or something.
So it comes down to low-end vs. high-end. Low-end computer have lower specs. Higher-end computer have higher specs. And the MacBook Pro doesn't quite have all the high end specs a pro/high-end machine is expected to have.
Back to reality . . . 😀
dejo
Moderator emeritus
Dead horse. If it doesn't work for you then don't buy it. Pros use what they need rather than worrying about whether or not what they buy says "Pro" on it. For some the MBP 13 suits their needs. For others, it doesn't.