Just trying to understand the train of thought here...
So its "open minded" to hate PCs, but "closed minded" to hate Macs?
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It seems as if Mac is only good for video/sound processing and web design
- Thread starter rfe777
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Just trying to understand the train of thought here...
So its "open minded" to hate PCs, but "closed minded" to hate Macs?
I can't see how you can argue that Mac's are good for Multimedia when they don't include BluRay.
However where the real value of Mac's come in is the end-to-end solution of hardware to operating system to applications that Apple develop. It's slick... very slick... and well worth the asking price.
It's a personal preference my dream machine would be a Core i5 13" MBP with a BluRay rom drive...... Bit like the Sony Vaio Z.
Best thing to do is go and try a few machines, see how you like it. Only you can answer if you will like them or not. My MBP has been around the world with me several times and it's my baby.
However where the real value of Mac's come in is the end-to-end solution of hardware to operating system to applications that Apple develop. It's slick... very slick... and well worth the asking price.
It's a personal preference my dream machine would be a Core i5 13" MBP with a BluRay rom drive...... Bit like the Sony Vaio Z.
Best thing to do is go and try a few machines, see how you like it. Only you can answer if you will like them or not. My MBP has been around the world with me several times and it's my baby.
IMO, if you aren't someone that cares about how your computer looks and you don't have the urge to fiddle with something new - stick with a PC. You can pick up a pretty powerful (dual core/4gb ram/320+gb HDD, etc) PC laptop/desktop from one of the big box stores for $400 and it will easily do the things you listed.
I'm someone like you and buying a mac didn't inspire me to be creative or free up an obscene amount of time. I watch movies/youtube vids, go to forums, do some shopping/selling, email, etc. I was heavily influenced by the looks and novelty of owning a mac.
How long did it take for the novelty to erode? I'm just 2 months into using mine. Love it, warts and all (yep, it is in the shop right now for a noisy screen issue).
Just trying to understand the train of thought here...
So its "open minded" to hate PCs, but "closed minded" to hate Macs?
Its closed minded to come to a Mac forum and say that you don't really think a Mac is going to work for you, and that Mac owners are stuck up and arrogant. But could we please take the time to change their mind, and then perhaps they might decide to join the club. IMO, of course.
I, too, fit the stereotype. Music production, some graphic design, and video editing are the primary heavy lifting my MacBook Pro ends up doing.
But more than half of the time I am doing the basics--email, surfing, word processing--and for those I am still very happy with Mac OSX. Most Windows people wouldn't dare to surf without virus protection software for even an hour, while my Mac is online 24/7/365 with no issues.
BTW--I don't mind the stereotype of "artsy people use macs" actually. If the user base stays under 10%, virus writers will still lack the incentive to hack at OS X with any gusto. Seeing that Apple is absolutely flush with cash--during a recession, no less--as a higher-end system producer with a comparatively smaller user base, why would I want them to get much bigger and garner more unwanted attention from the jerks that write malware?
My mom goes through cheap entry level PCs like water. While she has virus protection software installed, she doesn't know how to work it well, and she also doesn't fully grasp how clicking on phishing links in emails leaves her open to a lot of potential problems. For what she has spent on new systems and tech support, she could have had a very nice iMac with NO downtime. But she thinks Macs are too expensive.
Sure, there is a lot of hype about Macs on this board. That's pretty much the point. But the enduring truth behind it is that TCO--Total Cost of Ownership--really is better with Macs, especially when you factor in downtime and tech support.
So is longevity. I have a 400 mhz slot-loading iMac G3 for my kids running Mac OS X 10.4.11 with no problems. I have to run it off of an external FW drive (way faster than the internal anyway), I had to max the RAM at 1GB, and use a cheap aftermarket wireless USB card, but aside from those mods ($125 total) it cost me nothing (I got the iMac free from work).
How well would the latest build of Windows XP (forget Vista or 7) run on a 400 mhz machine wirelessly surfing the net? I doubt it would run as smoothly as my kid's iMac.
I am happy to pay the "Mac premium" every 3-5 years or so. Great overall user experience and conserving downtime and emotional frustration over that period of time? Priceless.
But more than half of the time I am doing the basics--email, surfing, word processing--and for those I am still very happy with Mac OSX. Most Windows people wouldn't dare to surf without virus protection software for even an hour, while my Mac is online 24/7/365 with no issues.
BTW--I don't mind the stereotype of "artsy people use macs" actually. If the user base stays under 10%, virus writers will still lack the incentive to hack at OS X with any gusto. Seeing that Apple is absolutely flush with cash--during a recession, no less--as a higher-end system producer with a comparatively smaller user base, why would I want them to get much bigger and garner more unwanted attention from the jerks that write malware?
My mom goes through cheap entry level PCs like water. While she has virus protection software installed, she doesn't know how to work it well, and she also doesn't fully grasp how clicking on phishing links in emails leaves her open to a lot of potential problems. For what she has spent on new systems and tech support, she could have had a very nice iMac with NO downtime. But she thinks Macs are too expensive.
Sure, there is a lot of hype about Macs on this board. That's pretty much the point. But the enduring truth behind it is that TCO--Total Cost of Ownership--really is better with Macs, especially when you factor in downtime and tech support.
So is longevity. I have a 400 mhz slot-loading iMac G3 for my kids running Mac OS X 10.4.11 with no problems. I have to run it off of an external FW drive (way faster than the internal anyway), I had to max the RAM at 1GB, and use a cheap aftermarket wireless USB card, but aside from those mods ($125 total) it cost me nothing (I got the iMac free from work).
How well would the latest build of Windows XP (forget Vista or 7) run on a 400 mhz machine wirelessly surfing the net? I doubt it would run as smoothly as my kid's iMac.
I am happy to pay the "Mac premium" every 3-5 years or so. Great overall user experience and conserving downtime and emotional frustration over that period of time? Priceless.
Handy those Genius bar reps. My shiny new iMac is with them right now. Definitely a plus of being a Mac owner: the tech support is great!
I find messing around with the registry a nightmare. The majority of Windows users also would choose the erase and install option.
He/She is right. Currently I'm a windows user and considering a Mac for animation/graphic design work on the side and...
I hate having to go into the registry cause I have to so often. If MS can find a way or knows one to make their OS w/o one please do lol.
Some enjoy it, I never used to care, I'd write it off but now it's just aggravating and frustrating so I erase and re-install...
when i used a pc in the past i losse so much time doing normal tasks, including the automatic updates that restart your pc without notice, and the automatic scaning anti-virus that reduce your performance.
when i switch to mac , i notice that im able to do all the ask in halft of the time,is so much easy, no antivirus , updates once a month or less, no crap software from the pc brand, everything nice and smooth just perfect.
currently i hate using windows , it seems so absolete and stupid, mac it just works
when i switch to mac , i notice that im able to do all the ask in halft of the time,is so much easy, no antivirus , updates once a month or less, no crap software from the pc brand, everything nice and smooth just perfect.
currently i hate using windows , it seems so absolete and stupid, mac it just works
I think where people get into trouble with their Mac systems is with those little "enhancement" programs (sometimes known as 'haxies' IIRC) that make the Finder "better", the Dock "easier" to use, etc etc.
My belief (a belief held by others on this site and the Apple support site, judging by others' posts) is that these haxies can introduce unanticipated conditions to the OS. Over time, and several OS upgrade cycles, these small anomalies can create enough instabilities that the OS needs to be reinstalled.
I know that when I first switched I found all sorts of these great "productivity enhancing" apps (though I probably spent all the time I saved looking for and installing more of these apps ). I also started to notice an OS that wasn't as stable as it used to be. So, I started reading and got rid of the haxies.
I've only ever done one Erase and Reinstall (my initial Tiger to Leopard upgrade) on one system (we have half a dozen in our household) and I've eliminated just about all of the haxies that E&R. Since then I've had virtually no issues with the OS. I've also discovered that there was either a built in way to do/have the Productivity Enhancement thingy, or I've learned to live with-out it.
I believe, though I don't have any recent experience with Windows so this is an hypothesis, that Windows has a reputation for instability because not only does it have so many more 'haxies' they are actually encouraged since Windows wants to appeal to such a broad range of users. I doubt a clean installation of Windows is that much more unstable.
OS X is not for everyone. If it is the solution you need for your particular needs, then I think it works very very well - better than the other OSes. If your needs are not what OS X does well, and if you are trying to bend it in some way to make it work - then it eventually breaks like any other OS.
One last thought. As helpful (and fun ) as the MR threads are, for serious troubleshooting help I go to the Community area on the Apple Support site. That is a 'Support' site, and this is the 'Rumour' site.
My belief (a belief held by others on this site and the Apple support site, judging by others' posts) is that these haxies can introduce unanticipated conditions to the OS. Over time, and several OS upgrade cycles, these small anomalies can create enough instabilities that the OS needs to be reinstalled.
I know that when I first switched I found all sorts of these great "productivity enhancing" apps (though I probably spent all the time I saved looking for and installing more of these apps
). I also started to notice an OS that wasn't as stable as it used to be. So, I started reading and got rid of the haxies.I've only ever done one Erase and Reinstall (my initial Tiger to Leopard upgrade) on one system (we have half a dozen in our household) and I've eliminated just about all of the haxies that E&R. Since then I've had virtually no issues with the OS. I've also discovered that there was either a built in way to do/have the Productivity Enhancement thingy, or I've learned to live with-out it.
I believe, though I don't have any recent experience with Windows so this is an hypothesis, that Windows has a reputation for instability because not only does it have so many more 'haxies' they are actually encouraged since Windows wants to appeal to such a broad range of users. I doubt a clean installation of Windows is that much more unstable.
OS X is not for everyone. If it is the solution you need for your particular needs, then I think it works very very well - better than the other OSes. If your needs are not what OS X does well, and if you are trying to bend it in some way to make it work - then it eventually breaks like any other OS.
One last thought. As helpful (and fun
) as the MR threads are, for serious troubleshooting help I go to the Community area on the Apple Support site. That is a 'Support' site, and this is the 'Rumour' site.Seriously though...updates and virus protection double the time it takes you to do normal task? Virus protection can usually run in the background and taking the crapware off usually takes 30 minutes.
I think where people get into trouble with their Mac systems is with those little "enhancement" programs (sometimes known as 'haxies' IIRC) that make the Finder "better", the Dock "easier" to use, etc etc.
My belief (a belief held by others on this site and the Apple support site, judging by others' posts) is that these haxies can introduce unanticipated conditions to the OS. Over time, and several OS upgrade cycles, these small anomalies can create enough instabilities that the OS needs to be reinstalled.
I know that when I first switched I found all sorts of these great "productivity enhancing" apps (though I probably spent all the time I saved looking for and installing more of these apps
I've only ever done one Erase and Reinstall (my initial Tiger to Leopard upgrade) on one system (we have half a dozen in our household) and I've eliminated just about all of the haxies that E&R. Since then I've had virtually no issues with the OS. I've also discovered that there was either a built in way to do/have the Productivity Enhancement thingy, or I've learned to live with-out it.
I believe, though I don't have any recent experience with Windows so this is an hypothesis, that Windows has a reputation for instability because not only does it have so many more 'haxies' they are actually encouraged since Windows wants to appeal to such a broad range of users. I doubt a clean installation of Windows is that much more unstable.
OS X is not for everyone. If it is the solution you need for your particular needs, then I think it works very very well - better than the other OSes. If your needs are not what OS X does well, and if you are trying to bend it in some way to make it work - then it eventually breaks like any other OS.
One last thought. As helpful (and fun
So, what to your knowledge, does OS X excel in? What does it do well that makes it better than other OS's; according to you, when it does them?
Would Graphics work and Animation fit in that area or should I just stick to Windows? I mean I can always install Windows on the Mac for the few times I may need it.
I can't give a definitive list, I will only cite examples where I have some personal experience.
1) What are the people around you using. In the community I live it would not surprise me to find out that the majority of people are Mac users, certainly in the circles I'm in the usage is well over 50%. When a friend asks me whether to get a PC or Mac, I ask them what their friends (typically first line of support and help) use. In my circles, that means Macs. There are about 3 or 4 of us Mac users who are informally supporting a dozen or so new Mac users. They went with Macs because the people who would be supporting them use Macs. Incidentally, we are all photographers and so there are some specific apps and workflows that we are helping our friends with.
2) Using images and other written material across a multitude of applications. I'm a photographer, and I (sometimes) run a Gallery. I also sit on several official and unofficial arts Boards and committees. I do my own publicity, plus I help out with the Boards and committees publications. Being able to drag-n-drop images, logos, text clips, etc etc from one use to another ensures I keep a harmonized look and feel across press-releases, web-sites, artist statements and bios, business cards, gallery cards (those little cards that go on the wall below hanging art), brochures, rack cards, newspaper ads, magazine ads, post-cards, emails, etc etc. It can take me a week or so to put together the material I need for a big publicity campaign - but once the material is put together, it takes an afternoon to create all the different packaging (except for the website because of its complexity). Smart folders are critical for me to keep things organized.
For just general photo editing, photo work-flow, and office work I have to assume that Macs and PCs are just about the same (some advantages and disadvantages to each).
3) My wife is the exact opposite. She is concerned with words and research. She is the senior policy analyst for an NGO. She researches online, runs and crunches stats, writes and comments on policy, and reads and sends email with attachments. A lot of emails. She has no interest in how it works, she just wants it to work. She is the only person in her office using a Mac as a work machine.
She doesn't worry about why the projector she plugs into displays her presentation. It just does. She doesn't care how the Wifi connection works, she just likes that the only troubleshooting she has had to do is to turn Airport off and then back on again. The only thing that doesn't work as easily as her PC carrying colleagues is the proprietary VPN solution her NGO uses to connect to the HQ servers, so she fires up a virtualized Windows session to use the VPN. There is a Java VPN client apparently, but its more trouble for her to bug her IT person about it than to use the virtualized Windows. And, the IT person initially thought my wife's virtualized VPN connection would be an issue, but has now admitted that my wife's connection is the only one he hasn't had a support call on. Except when they change the connection protocols and forget to send them to my wife
.My wife wants her computer to work like the refrigerator. She opens it, she does something useful, she closes it. She doesn't care why it works - it just does, and she doesn't have to spend much time making it work.
Incidentally, even Macs have a lot further to go to reach the 'appliance' stage, but I think that is Apple's intent. Why shouldn't computers be as easy to use a stove? (And yes, I know that capabilities and complexities are different, but its a worthy goal to aim at.)
There are issues as well with Macs. I'm not blind to them, and have recommended some people stick with their PCs if I thought that was the best solution for them.
Does that help?
If you're including malware in that "crapware", then it's more like 30 minutes a day.
So-called virus "protection" does run in the background, but it also means it takes up resources, even only a small amount, and so slows the computer down. They also don't actually protect very well anyway - At least once or twice a month I am forced to trawl through the Registry on this stupid Windows 2000 PC to manually get rid of malware that has installed itself despite Avast constantly running and updated (the same happened with AVG installed previously), and the other malware "checkers" run occassionally don't notice them either, let alone actually remove them!
If you're including malware in that "crapware", then it's more like 30 minutes a day.
So-called virus "protection" does run in the background, but it also means it takes up resources, even only a small amount, and so slows the computer down. They also don't actually protect very well anyway - At least once or twice a month I am forced to trawl through the Registry on this stupid Windows 2000 PC to manually get rid of malware that has installed itself despite Avast constantly running and updated (the same happened with AVG installed previously), and the other malware "checkers" run occassionally don't notice them either, let alone actually remove them!
Win 2000? Sorry, we don't support that anymore.
Yeah, a bit.
I just don't have too much time to constantly go into the registry and fix things and don't like all the work and time spent on dealing with viruses and malware/root-kits etc.
As for what most use around me, well windows but that doesn't mean I need to stick to it. I already know too much and can fix issues with Windows so I can still help them. I have a few around that use Macs and an IT friend who KNOWS Macs lol so.... if any issues I could ask him.
If I wasn't gonna start up again *took a term off* and finish my animation/game design degree which means I need mainstream either Mac/PC I'd just go with Linux for a computer... but that won't work with my classes and I don't have the time to keep fixing all the Windows crap lol unless I want to fail my classes.
So I'd like to move OS's and was just wondering if OS X is good for graphics and animation work or if I should just "deal" with Windows.
I just don't have too much time to constantly go into the registry and fix things and don't like all the work and time spent on dealing with viruses and malware/root-kits etc.
As for what most use around me, well windows but that doesn't mean I need to stick to it. I already know too much and can fix issues with Windows so I can still help them. I have a few around that use Macs and an IT friend who KNOWS Macs lol so.... if any issues I could ask him.
If I wasn't gonna start up again *took a term off* and finish my animation/game design degree which means I need mainstream either Mac/PC I'd just go with Linux for a computer... but that won't work with my classes and I don't have the time to keep fixing all the Windows crap lol unless I want to fail my classes.
So I'd like to move OS's and was just wondering if OS X is good for graphics and animation work or if I should just "deal" with Windows.
Learning how to use OS X is not difficult by any means. My mother was confused by the new UI at first, but had everything down in a few days.
And as for the "Macs are more expensive than PCs" thing, which Mac and which PC are you comparing? I see there's a Mac mini for $799, and a CTO Dell workstation for $65,000. It just depends on how you look at it.
I prefer OS X as I appreciate the lack of a Windows Registry, the advantages of the UNIX shell and its command line tools, FireWire Target Disk Mode, the Mac version of iTunes (i.e. the only usable version
) amongst other things. I have a home-built Core i5 PC that I keep around as a "dumb game box," but the majority of everything else I do is on the Mac.Since you identified yourself as a web-browsing, email-checking, music-listening user, I'd say a low-end Mac mini would be ideal, if you were to get a Mac. I don't know where people get the idea that Macs are just for video editing.
Well Maya, 3DS Max, practically all the Adobe, some other video editing tools, some photo editing I do on the side for a friend. I mostly use Photoshop but sometimes would like to use... Aperature but can't on the current Windows box. But the hardware is dying I see the signs. so I'm just wondering if I should get a Mac again. I used them years ago, not a HUGE amount but more than say 2/3. I'm sick of the Windows issues and don't want to deal with that really anymore so.... I'm leaning towards Mac this time but... it might work out the other way and I have to keep 'dealing' with Windows.
Some I won't be using yet and am not now.... due to my classes don't start again until Spring... but I use the Adobe stuff regularly and some other stuff...
Windows in a nutshell
This may well be my favourite post ever, and certainly sums up my experiences with Windows.
This may well be my favourite post ever, and certainly sums up my experiences with Windows.
All of the Adobe stuff is more or less found on the Mac platform, though you should call Adobe and ask about transferring the license(s) for the purchased applications (ie not things like the PDF reader, etc). They do it, and there is a fee.
I don't know about the video stuff, but a couple of quick google searches will clear that up.