It's official: Macbooks have bad thermal paste applied

[66217]

I'm so sick of hearing about this. If you don't like it, go get a PC that runs cooler. We all know first gen's of anything have problems. What first gen of a car has never had any problems? None. If you really are getting so sick of it, stop complaining and buy a Dell.

And I hate when people gets so Anti-PC's.

PC's are good, as Mac's are good. I want to buy a MB, because I like them and found them very attractive and OS X is "cool". But that don't means that I hate PC's. I currently own a Thinkpad R40, and I found it a very, very good notebook.

And it is normal to react like this to a problem in a notebook. And even more when we are talking about a company that specializaes in doing "premiuim" notebooks. You pay an extra for design, and having a notebook that don't gets very hot is part of the design.

And it get owners of this notebooks even more angry when they see that Apple is not accepting that they have a problem. Why can't they just say "We are currently seeing how to make notebooks run cooler, and when we have the solution we will kindly repair yours"?. If they say that nobody would be making this kind of posts.

So just saying to buy a Dell isn't the solution. People just want to make sure they don't buy a product that has a major problem. And a notebook that runs very hot has a major problem. Maybe not all MBP or MB's have this problem. So that's why they are asking for help. And that's supposed to be the mission of forums like this.

 

[stefan15]

Enough with this blind worship of a financial motivated company. If Apple are having issues they are ignoring, people WILL complain and rightfull so.

I agree... as consumers we have tons of power. We just have to excersize it. Any way you look at it, the application of thermal paste is incorrect in a significant number of cases. That must warrant some sort of action from Apple.

 

[leftbanke7]

I agree... as consumers we have tons of power. We just have to excersize it. Any way you look at it, the application of thermal paste is incorrect in a significant number of cases. That must warrant some sort of action from Apple.

I won't say that consumers of a product don't have a right to exercise their right to complain if their product don't meet their standards. They absolutely do.

But what the hell is bitching about it on a third party Mac related site going to do? You want the problem solved....call Apple. Coming here to bitch is just wasting your time.

 

[stefan15]

Well, true that. I wonder how osx86project's day of call-ins is coming.

 

[aristobrat]

But what the hell is bitching about it on a third party Mac related site going to do? You want the problem solved....call Apple. Coming here to bitch is just wasting your time.

And bitching about people bitching is a good use of time?

People are coming together in forums like this because Apple ISN'T solving the problem. Almost everyone who's shipped their MBP to Apple for heat issues have received it back, NOT FIXED. Do you understand that this issue hasn't been addressed by Apple since MBPs started shipping at the end of February?

People coming together here (and other 3rd party sites) has organized folks. OSX86 put together the call-in day. http://mbpro.info has graphs people have sent in showing how hot their MBP ran before they (the owner) took it apart to fix the problem that Apple won't fix if you mail it to Apple for support.

The best part of people bitching in forums like this is that it's getting picked up by the media, and if there's one thing that will make Apple move, ... it's negative press coverage.

 

[anti-pcs]

Enough with this blind worship of a financial motivated company. If Apple are having issues they are ignoring, people WILL complain and rightfull so. The macbook is the third apple laptop with core duo chips having the SAME problem. It appears from the previous poster that this problem has gone all the way back to the days of the G4 laptops. We WILL talk about end until the it is resolved. Deal with it or read other posts.

Oh my gosh, Apple is financially motivated? What nerve they have, especially when every other company in America is working for the people...

On a serious note, Roco, I really do hate PCs. I used them for more than 12 years. Since switching to Macs, I have no desire to use a Stinkpad or any machine running Windows. I had my fair share of problems with PCs, especially viruses. Spending money to update anti-virus software and all that crap is such a hastle and I haven't one problem with a Mac. That's just from my experience though. And I don't really think Apple is just sitting back listening to our problems and not doing a thing about it. It wouldn't exactly be good publicity if they came out and admitted the MB and MBPs are having problems, especially with Bootcamp beta being introduced and more Windows users being interested in Macs. We all know Apple is a very private company that has a reputation to keep up, so I am sure they are working on it, whether we know it or not. Yes, I agree it would be nice if they put in more effort to remedy the problems, but as well all know, problems with computers are hard to remedy overnight.

 

[ivc]

I've created a new site that allows you to easily submit temperature information and view the entries in a chart with different filtering options available. We'll be able to see if there's any trends in serial and manufacturer dates, MacBook Pros vs MacBooks vs iMacs, compare similar configurations, factory vs modded thermal paste, cooling efficiency and a lot more.

Take a look at http://www.intelmactemp.com and submit your temperature readings. Read the Howto BEFORE doing the temperature measures, it helps to keep the readings leveled compared to other entries.

Feel free to mention the site whenever you see fit.
-ivc

 

[2smuth]

no problem for me

I have a 1.83 Pro with 100 gig and a gig of RAM, week 14 and I have no whine or noises, my only issue was heat when charging and using at the same time. THe update last week brought mine down to acceptable heat levels and I still never hear the fans. There is no way they will recall all of them to scrape excell goo off when they can get it this good with software, or perhaps the newer boards are done better, I'm not going to open it to find out. I use it 5-6 hours a night, running Parallels XP and X, maxing the processors constantly, and it feels the same as my Powerbook G4 1.33 does as far as heat goes.

Run the updates and give Apple time to figure the Intel chips out! We KNEW there might be first gen issues when we bought these so give it a rest. If yours is shutting down, etc then send it to Apple for a new one, Applecare is still the best when it come to service. Anyone want to call a clone manufacturer and tell them to send a new unit due to heat, they'd send you a cpu fan a week later.

 

[spaceballl]

The pictures out of the apple service manual are absolutely ridiculous...

And I own a new macbook, and I love it. Even when this thing sits on top of my iCurve though, w/ LOTS of ventilation, the bottom of it gets soooooo hot.

 

[Nar1117]

The amount of thermal paste shouldnt matter, just as long as it isnt too little. The idea is to make the transfer of heat from the processor to the heat sink more efficient by providing more surface area for the heat to go through. This is accomplished by applying a very heat-conductive paste, the thermal paste, over the top of the processor, and pressing the heat sink plate down ontop so that the paste is squeezed across the entire surface of the processor.

The distance between the heat sink plate and the processor is not going to change based on how much thermal paste is applied. Therefore, only a certain amount of paste can be accomodated between the processor and the heat sink plate.

Obviously Apple would have experimented with this distance to make it the smallest distance possible, to conserve space, and the largest, to help with heat/air transfer inbetween the metals.

Also, if the amount og thermal paste was 'too much', the result would be that, when the plate was pressed won ontop of the processors with the paste inbetween, the paste would just have been squeezed across a greater area of the processor and its surrounding circuit board. Certainly, this can hardly be a bad thing?

Main point: Only a certain amount of paste can fit between the processor and its heat sink, so adding more paste would not matter. Not enough, however, would be.

The heat problem does not lie with the amount of paste, or even the paste itself. I think it probably lies with either a software/firmware issue that does not recognize hight temps. and therefore down not turn on the fans. Or possibly, the internal setup of the macbook/pro is badly designed so that heat has nowehere to go once it has been transfered to the heat sink. Anyway...

My thoughts, thanks for reading.

 

[aristobrat]

I think it probably lies with either a software/firmware issue that does not recognize hight temps. and therefore down not turn on the fans.

Have you seen http://mbpro.info ?

It has graphs of how hot the MPB CPU runs before and after the Apple thermal goo is replaced with another kind.

The replaced ones are around 20'C cooler.

 

[BWhaler]

I'm so sick of hearing about this. If you don't like it, go get a PC that runs cooler. We all know first gen's of anything have problems. What first gen of a car has never had any problems? None. If you really are getting so sick of it, stop complaining and buy a Dell.

This is one of the dumber posts I have read in a long time.

1. You don't have to read the thread if you don't want to.
2. Apple clearly has a manufacturing problem
3. Customers paid a lot of money for their MB & MBP's. They expect quality.
4. Apply hasn't given customers an avenue to resolve the issue, so they come here.

Seriously, your "go buy a PC" comment is juvenile and idiotic. These are Apple customers buying new, and flawed products. They are looking for help.

 

[Catfish_Man]

<snip>

This fails to explain a) why every PC site and thermal paste manufacturer strongly recommends against too much paste, and b) why reapplying the paste in sane amounts has caused drastic improvements for many people.

 

[direzz]

i have a fabulous sony vaio with a core duo and integrated graphics.. very similar to the macbook except with a 15 incher and very similar to the mbp, except with integrated graphics.

my sony vaio does not get hot at all!!! and i use it constantly.

im having doubts about picking up a mb now after seeing all that thermal paste and reading that horror storry.

apples laptop line gets ridiculously hot.

my old toshiba and my new sony NEVER made my legs "sweat profusely".

sigh,

 

[ccrandall77]

Not only is it hot, but the software stinks

While my MB (1.83) has not crashed due to heat, it does run very hot. But so far the most annoying thing has been the constant application crashes. Safari has crashed twice and anytime I try to print it crashes. For some reason, the printer I set up keeps disappearing... worked fine after importing the settings from our old iBook. However, I had to delete those settings when I moved the printer from the AX to the iMac so I could use the scanner.

I realize this is a little offtopic, but it's been a little disappointing that a 3 day old computer has 4+ software (not OS) crashes in one day one day and chronic printer setup issues. This machine goes back tomorrow and hopefully the next one works better. Ya I could reinstall, but why should I when it's only 3 days old!

This'll be the second brand new computer I'll have to return (the other was an iMac G5-1.9 where the magnet on the side fell down to the bottom and the IR receiver didn't work correctly). I've also had to return 3 Airport Expresses that all died after a couple months and now my Powerbook G4 is having chronic kernel panics. I take very good care of my toys, so it's not abuse that's causing these issues. So either I'm terribly unlucky or Apple's QC sucks.

BTW, running my MB for 51min and it is comfortable on my bare skin, but still hotter than either the old iBook or Powerbook.

 

[fuzzyping]

I bought my new MBP 2.0 from the SoHo store on Friday. It wasn't until after the SMC Bios update that I started paying attention to the core temps. What I've noticed however, is interesting. It seems that the CPU temp stays easily within spec, even at full load (31-34 degrees C at 100%). It isn't until the video is pushed hard that the MBP seriously heats up (70-73 degrees C playing World of Warcraft at full resolution).

I'm tempted to open the case to view the paste application, but I don't want to risk voiding the support.

 

[odedia]

I bought my new MBP 2.0 from the SoHo store on Friday. It wasn't until after the SMC Bios update that I started paying attention to the core temps. What I've noticed however, is interesting. It seems that the CPU temp stays easily within spec, even at full load (31-34 degrees C at 100%). It isn't until the video is pushed hard that the MBP seriously heats up (70-73 degrees C playing World of Warcraft at full resolution).

I'm tempted to open the case to view the paste application, but I don't want to risk voiding the support.

It's very possible that most of the heat comes from the GPU and not the CPU, that's why I keep asking people to test both processors, preferably using a 3D game. The best way I tested this was with the game demo for "Otto Matic", avaliable freely as a universaly binary at macgamefiles.com. Just play that cute game for about 15 minutes and tell me what's up. I'll bet your computer will toast. Mine did.

BTW, this could easily exaplain why Apple underclocks their GPU.

Oded S.

 

[fuzzyping]

It's very possible that most of the heat comes from the GPU and not the CPU, that's why I keep asking people to test both processors, preferably using a 3D game....

BTW, this could easily exaplain why Apple underclocks their GPU.

Oded S.

Yes, that's exactly what I suspect. I was posting it as further anecdotal proof of this hypothesis.

 

[someguy]

<rambling on, something about paste>

I don't know how much pressure you think the logic board is putting on the heatsink frame beneath it, but I can tell you from what I've seen in my own 'book that the answer is very little, if any. Could you not see from my pictures in this thread the amount of paste that was able to reside comfortably between the video core and its heatsink? A lot. This amount of paste would not have survived in the position it has if there were any pressure put on it when it was originally put together. This is poor workmanship from Apple, and so is the fact that you can clearly see probably 60% of the surface of both the CPU core and its corresponding heatsink.

Not a software issue.

 

[iJawn108]

**** I was gunna bite the bullet and get this one, but not now. I'll wait for the 64 bit mac mobiles and see how those turn out.

 

[ckoerner]

I bought my new MBP 2.0 from the SoHo store on Friday. It wasn't until after the SMC Bios update that I started paying attention to the core temps. What I've noticed however, is interesting. It seems that the CPU temp stays easily within spec, even at full load (31-34 degrees C at 100%). It isn't until the video is pushed hard that the MBP seriously heats up (70-73 degrees C playing World of Warcraft at full resolution).

I'm tempted to open the case to view the paste application, but I don't want to risk voiding the support.

I have the same fear, I'm afraid of opening up this bad boy and voiding my AppleCare. My 2 month old MBP is running near 80 degrees C at 100%, and that's not while playing any intesive 3D applications. I've compared it to a new MBP we've gotten at work. It runs at nearly 25 degrees C cooler. I posted pictures here.

 

[spaceballl]

This fails to explain a) why every PC site and thermal paste manufacturer strongly recommends against too much paste, and b) why reapplying the paste in sane amounts has caused drastic improvements for many people.

Here's the explanation. In a perfect world, if you have a heatsink and a cpu, putting one on top of the other would yield perfect heat transfer. However, since these two objects are not "perfectly" flat, we need something to fill in the tiny holes in order to make two perfectly flat surfaces and improve heat transfer. Applying a tiny amount of thermal paste does the trick. If you spread it out smoothly, you can improve heat transfer. However, if you put too much on, that stuff has to go somewhere, often insulating the CPU. I don't want to crack open my new macbook, but eventually i suspect i'll fix mine up.

 

[Catfish_Man]

Here's the explanation. In a perfect world, if you have a heatsink and a cpu, putting one on top of the other would yield perfect heat transfer. However, since these two objects are not "perfectly" flat, we need something to fill in the tiny holes in order to make two perfectly flat surfaces and improve heat transfer. Applying a tiny amount of thermal paste does the trick. If you spread it out smoothly, you can improve heat transfer. However, if you put too much on, that stuff has to go somewhere, often insulating the CPU. I don't want to crack open my new macbook, but eventually i suspect i'll fix mine up.

I know the explanation, I was pointing out that the post I was replying to failed to match reality.

 

[drake]

Likely, this is a cost saving measure. How much would it cost them to take the time to properly apply the hsc rather than just slap the stuff on and keep going? The damage likely won't show up for a least a year, and then, it will be out-of-warranty.

 

[spaceballl]

Likely, this is a cost saving measure. How much would it cost them to take the time to properly apply the hsc rather than just slap the stuff on and keep going? The damage likely won't show up for a least a year, and then, it will be out-of-warranty.

right... i bet it costs millions to not have the machine put on as much thermal paste... right...