'It's Time for Apple to Fix Texting' Says New Android Website Pushing RCS Messaging Technology

[Unregistered 4U]

On a more serious note, the persistent lack of support of standards and the seemingly more and more obvious intent to have user lock in has slowly driven me away from Apple.

From watch, iPad, MBP, iMac and iPhone. The only apple device that remains is the iPhone.

What bugs me is that the ONLY thing keeping me on iPhone is keychain. It is just far too much work to get my passwords into a different manager and finding one I trust as much as Apple.

I know I’m only 1 user and Apple won’t miss me. But it bugs me that intentional lock in is what keeps me on iPhone and not the iPhone features.

So the intent for user lock in has allowed you to take advantage of the fact that there’s no user lock in. Excellent! By the way, have you looked at Google’s new migration tools?

What I find interesting is that your final area of “lock in” is only due to the fact that you don’t trust anyone else as much as Apple. I mean, are you saying that it’s Apple’s desire to intentionally appear more trustful that is the last thing locking you in?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

You must not ever send videos.

I’m guessing that the TikTok/Instagram/Snapchat generation wouldn’t even THINK of sharing video over MMS. 1, it’s crappy, 2, it doesn’t help get all the followers they know they deserve!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

What’s the case for RCS/MMS/SMS fallback over just SMS/MMS fallback for 90% of users? What do you get from RCS that you don’t get from MMS that makes it worth the engineering effort to implement?

This is the question the carriers asked themselves… “Rolling out RCS is going to take some serious work from the switches to the towers… everything. What is this going to do for our customers? How will we make money off this?

Well, when you look at it that way, how about this instead? We could simply continue to pull in money hand over fist using the crap that’s currently in place. We could literally do nothing and that, financially, would be a better decision.”

And thus, RCS was effectively killed

 

[dk001]

Russia and China are carriers? I thought those were countries. Beeline, MegaFon, Mobile TeleSystems and Tele2 are carriers in Russia, and China Mobile, China Unicom and China Telecom are carriers in China. And, just like all carriers around the world, none of them support RCS in the same way that they support SMS, at the carrier.

Google’s RCS is not RCS at the carrier. It is, by definition, at Google.

Every country and carrier that supports Google RCS

RCS has modernized messaging on Android with chat features reminiscent of standalone chat apps and the iPhone-only iMessage app.

www.androidcentral.com

Carrier support is not needed except the ability to download the app that supports this.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple does not need to invent anything new to implement RCS, the features and specification are there for how to implement it. They just need to be willing to do it without being forced to. There is no "engineering effort", it's not hard to implement.

Apple wouldn’t need to do anything, if this was supported by the carriers. All they’d have to do is take the message that the carrier is delivering (just like SMS/MMS) and surface that text in the Messages app. Unfortunately, the carriers don’t support RCS and doesn’t look like they’re interested in supporting it as they’ve handed the keys to Google.

 

[dk001]

Well, Verizon, T-mobile, AT&T and carriers AROUND THE GLOBE are all anti-RCS, so I think that puts those folks in good company.


Is it? It’s not time for the carriers, who created RCS AND MMS, to go back to the drawing board and create the next thing at the carrier level that all carriers can adopt worldwide? And all phones would support, worldwide? Because that’s the only way anyone’s going to see a replacement for SMS. And, if the carriers want the government to FORCE them to create a new solution? Sure, maybe that’s just what the carriers need!

Why do we want the carriers to do this? It is better if they stay out of this as they are not needed.

 

[dk001]

Every iPhone already has the potential for “Google RCS” compatibility (there is no RCS compatibility as RCS is not supported at the carrier). All they have to do… is the exact same thing Android users would need to do, just download Google Messages. BOOM! I have Google RCS compatibility on my iPhone right now!

Where can I get Google Messages for iOS and how do I make it the default messaging app for my iPhone?
You can't.

Besides that misses the whole point.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Every country and carrier that supports Google RCS

RCS has modernized messaging on Android with chat features reminiscent of standalone chat apps and the iPhone-only iMessage app.

www.androidcentral.com

Once more…
GOOGLE RCS (make note of the “Google” before RCS, ok?)

is not RCS AT THE CARRIER. Maybe if Google was a carrier, but, alas, they’re not.

Now, let’s compare the above to SMS and MMS.

There is no Google SMS. There is no Google MMS. Why? It’s not needed, those are supported at the carrier. So, in order to replace SMS, you’d need the solution to be supported by the carriers in the same way that SMS is (again, no Google SMS, just SMS). There are no carriers supporting RCS at the carrier.

 

[dk001]

... Because no carriers support it.

Have to call BS on that.
All US carriers support it according to their websites.

 

[BuffaloTF]

One of the benefits of RCS is it can be carrier independent.

Can be. But is not. And in this specific iteration, it’s independent from the carriers, but wholly controlled by Google. It’s not an SMS replacement.

That’s why the world has already moved past it. This is a rather sad effort to make a last ditch effort to make it relevant… except it’s just another app here. Pointless in a sea of other apps in the world, where you’ll certainly find your target recipient residing already.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why do we want the carriers to do this? It is better if they stay out of this as they are not needed.

Do you know how we got SMS? Do you know how we got MMS? These two quite ubiquitous ways of communicating that are SO successful that LITERALLY every phone made today supports those out of the box, no added configuration or anything? Because they’re supported at the carrier. Would you like a new, better than SMS better than MMS solution that would be supported out of the box, by every phone released after they’re implemented with no added configuration or anything? Then that would also need to happen at the carrier.

Do you want “just another app”? Oh, then that can be done without the carrier, just, you know, it’ll be “just another app”, not inside Apple’s Messages app.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Have to call BS on that.
All US carriers support it according to their websites.

They specifically support “Google RCS”. Not RCS. According to their websites. I checked.

 

[ian87w]

Let’s stop the excuses and accept apple drags their feet.

Stop defending Google as if they were saints. Majority of Android OEMs don't even support RCS on their stock SMS app, and Google does nothing about it. Majority of carriers around the world don't support RCS.

RCS is basically Google's poor excuse that they couldn't make a viable chat platform. And instead of working with carriers around the world to implement the standard, Google went ahead use their own servers, and called it a day. And they are now blaming Apple? Please. Google cannot even convince their own OEM partners other than Samsung to support RCS. Until Xiaomi and BBK support it, RCS is essentially just another chat platform for Pixel users in the US.

RCS is a solution looking for a problem that has been solved many moons ago. The world has moved on. Many carriers actually even dropped RCS since they don't see it viable at this point. It's basically just a US thing.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Where can I get Google Messages for iOS and how do I make it the default messaging app for my iPhone?
You can't.

Besides that misses the whole point.

You download it from the App Store, like I did. Sign in and there you go. And, just never open up any other messaging app and it’s your default for all your messaging.

Oh, you want to receive SMS messages alongside RCS messages? Well, you see, SMS is supported at the carrier and Apple just shows those inside the Messages app. If RCS was supported at the carrier, Apple would just show THOSE messages inside the Messages app, just like they currently do with SMS and MMS. Unfortunately, no carrier currently supports RCS and it doesn’t look like any of them have any plans to in the future. They support “Google RCS”, but that’s through Google, not the carrier, so those messages won’t show up inside the Messages app.

 

[ian87w]

The problem is a lack of equivalent functionality/user experience across platforms. The industry refused iMessage as a proposed standard and now Apple refuses RCS.

So is there actually a problem? In many countries, whatsapp has become the solution. In my country, businesses are using whatsapp for OTPs. Nobody even use SMS anymore for years. SMS has been relegated to legacy OTPs and spam. Nobody uses iMessage nor RCS, and both iPhone and Android users are doing just fine. Xiaomi, BBK, don't support RCS. Samsung doesn't even turn it on by default.

 

[dk001]

Once more…
GOOGLE RCS (make note of the “Google” before RCS, ok?)

is not RCS AT THE CARRIER. Maybe if Google was a carrier, but, alas, they’re not.

Now, let’s compare the above to SMS and MMS.

There is no Google SMS. There is no Google MMS. Why? It’s not needed, those are supported at the carrier. So, in order to replace SMS, you’d need the solution to be supported by the carriers in the same way that SMS is (again, no Google SMS, just SMS). There are no carriers supporting RCS at the carrier.

You are arguing Apples and Beans.
The reason we currently have Googles version of RCS on the table is many carriers have been trying to push their own version. This version of RCS is the solution and carriers are agreeing.
This would be a phased in process as they cannot just dump SMS. Both will need to be supported until all are supporting / using RCS as the default.

Currently there is no other solution on the horizon.

Apple is playing games.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Why do we want the carriers to do this? It is better if they stay out of this as they are not needed.

Because they are needed. That’s why SMS is available to everyone. Every single carrier supports it because it’s quite literally a part of the GSM air interface and has been cascaded down to every superseding radio technology after GSM development ended.

I guess to that end, in a way they aren’t needed. You just need an air interface with something like SMS built in as a default. Then when the carriers hang new antennas and swap out networking cards, it’s just there.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Where can I get Google Messages for iOS and how do I make it the default messaging app for my iPhone?
You can't.

Besides that misses the whole point.

That’s the point. Google could launch it yesterday and have RCS on iPhone. They won’t. Because Apple won’t, and shouldn’t, give app developers OS level access to its SMS stack. Google knows this too, they’ve spent the last decade closing up their own source codes for everything Android, the version people buy; while letting AOSP, the version people parade around as open source, have their base level services turn into a steaming pile…

 

[BuffaloTF]

Have to call BS on that.
All US carriers support it according to their websites.

All carriers ceased development and joined in handing over the keys to Google. Any support is legacy, and certainly dropped in short order. While those carriers had it as a marketed service, none could send an RCS to a different carrier. Not a one. Not even T-Mobile, using Google’s jibe, could send an RCS to anyone else - not even to Google RCS.

Now tell me what carrier I can’t send an SMS to. Because that’s the issue at hand.

 

[spinedoc77]

ah, you mean if you are doing it from an android.

I am doing it from an iphone, and the email way is one more click than imessage, its the same then it asks if i want it maildrop so there is that extra one click. and at the other end (can only check on an iphone) its the same opening the email, clicking on it, waiting a second for it to download and then plays uncompressed.

Isn't Android to iPhone the entire point of this thread?

 

[dk001]

Do you know how we got SMS? Do you know how we got MMS? These two quite ubiquitous ways of communicating that are SO successful that LITERALLY every phone made today supports those out of the box, no added configuration or anything? Because they’re supported at the carrier. Would you like a new, better than SMS better than MMS solution that would be supported out of the box, by every phone released after they’re implemented with no added configuration or anything? Then that would also need to happen at the carrier.

Do you want “just another app”? Oh, then that can be done without the carrier, just, you know, it’ll be “just another app”, not inside Apple’s Messages app.

You keep repeating yourself.

RCS is replacing SMS as the default messaging for all phones EXCEPT the iPhone.
Here in the US it has already started and all carriers are defaulting Android to RCS. For the rest of the world this has also started.

RCS is meant to replace SMS as a default, universally compatible messaging protocol. That switch is already underway globally but will take time. What is being asked is that Apple support this switch with iMessage. This way all default messaging apps can communicate.

 

[spinedoc77]

Stop defending Google as if they were saints. Majority of Android OEMs don't even support RCS on their stock SMS app, and Google does nothing about it. Majority of carriers around the world don't support RCS.

RCS is basically Google's poor excuse that they couldn't make a viable chat platform. And instead of working with carriers around the world to implement the standard, Google went ahead use their own servers, and called it a day. And they are now blaming Apple? Please. Google cannot even convince their own OEM partners other than Samsung to support RCS. Until Xiaomi and BBK support it, RCS is essentially just another chat platform for Pixel users in the US.

RCS is a solution looking for a problem that has been solved many moons ago. The world has moved on. Many carriers actually even dropped RCS since they don't see it viable at this point. It's basically just a US thing.

Your first point is fine, RCS as it stands today is a proprietary implementation by Google and not a carrier supported solution. After reading these posts I now see that RCS as it is today is not really a viable solution unless you want to cede control to Google. So while Apple is trying to protect its walled garden, it also makes sense why they are not chomping at the bit to cede control to Google. Now if this truly came from the GMSA and carriers then it would probably not be an issue in being accepted.

But here is where I have an issue, "RCS is a solution looking for a problem that has been solved many moons ago" I'm sorry but I missed the solution, because I still cannot easily send pictures/video from Android to iPhone. Are you talking about 3rd party apps? That's a piss-poor solution at best, especially in the US. Are you talking about falling back to SMS/MMS? Again a horrible solution. So maybe I'm missing what the perfect solution might be.

 

[dk001]

All carriers ceased development and joined in handing over the keys to Google. Any support is legacy, and certainly dropped in short order. While those carriers had it as a marketed service, none could send an RCS to a different carrier. Not a one. Not even T-Mobile, using Google’s jibe, could send an RCS to anyone else - not even to Google RCS.

Now tell me what carrier I can’t send an SMS to. Because that’s the issue at hand.

This will be a phased roll-out and we will see SMS in use for some things for quite a while yet. However for device messaging SMS should be retired.

While I am not a big fan of Google having the potential keys to the kingdom, no one else has stepped up. Apple had the perfect opportunity with iMessage compatibility and punted.

 

[spinedoc77]

You keep repeating yourself.

RCS is replacing SMS as the default messaging for all phones EXCEPT the iPhone.
Here in the US it has already started and all carriers are defaulting Android to RCS. For the rest of the world this has also started.

RCS is meant to replace SMS as a default, universally compatible messaging protocol. That switch is already underway globally but will take time. What is being asked is that Apple support this switch with iMessage.

It's a bit deeper than that, and I was in your position until others provided education. RCS as a standard, like SMS/MMS currently are, was abandoned by the carriers. The RCS you see today is Google's proprietary solution, which ostensibly Google will profit from in some way or another. The distaste many have seems to be 1) will there be privacy issues around this? 2) You still have to download Google's app instead of it working universally like SMS/MMS do. 3) Google has a penchant for going full steam on projects, then abandoning them. The RCS the carriers support is Google's Jibe version, which is different than what a "universal" RCS implementation would be, the one the carriers all dropped in favor of Google's implementation.

Personally I don't have much of an issue if Google's implementation is used as it's still much better than today's SMS/MMS, but I can definitely see the issue with others and Apple's point of view. But it's clear that Apple won't be using Google's RCS anytime soon.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Carrier support is not needed except the ability to download the app that supports this.

Carrier support is needed IF on iPhone there is a desire to display SMS and MMS messages alongside RCS messages. If a user is good seeing SMS/MMS in one app and RCS in another on iPhone, then, no, carrier support is not needed.