hmmm... how about using the allowance function...? Would that work somehow?? Or is this depending on the actual hardware you are using...?
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iTunes Europe... More Delays?
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The whole point of iTMS is to buy music legally rather than using the freely available but illegal file sharing services.
In the event that you were a non-US resident, purchasing music from iTMS from outside of the US, it is unlikely that the music would be licensed anyway, so you're paying money for nothing.
euromess...
I've been roaming around Europe for some years. The musician union/copyright systems seem to run extremely deep. In Germany for instance I believe you have to pay a tax just to own a radio or television and you are not allowed to play a radio station in a restaurant or shop without paying authors rights duties. The same goes for all material broadcast on radio stations. There are 'controlers' who go around everywhere and enforce the regulations.
Now this is for one country. Now multiply that by 12 or however many member states there are (and growing), and you have a mess on your hands. When I heard Apple wanted a Europe wide service I couldn't imagine how it was possible.
Mind you I'm no expert. This is just what I've gathered from talking to people.
I've been roaming around Europe for some years. The musician union/copyright systems seem to run extremely deep. In Germany for instance I believe you have to pay a tax just to own a radio or television and you are not allowed to play a radio station in a restaurant or shop without paying authors rights duties. The same goes for all material broadcast on radio stations. There are 'controlers' who go around everywhere and enforce the regulations.
Now this is for one country. Now multiply that by 12 or however many member states there are (and growing), and you have a mess on your hands. When I heard Apple wanted a Europe wide service I couldn't imagine how it was possible.
Mind you I'm no expert. This is just what I've gathered from talking to people.
If Apple comes out with a Europe wide store in 2004 I'd be frankly amazed.
Everybody else just isn't even bothering to try apart from OD2 and they are doing it via European ISPs, Microsoft, coca-cola, Virgin and doing it country by country, record label by record label. Far more sensible.
Apple's insistence on a big entrance is making it late for it's own party. It's like iPhoto and Sherlock all over again.
Everybody else just isn't even bothering to try apart from OD2 and they are doing it via European ISPs, Microsoft, coca-cola, Virgin and doing it country by country, record label by record label. Far more sensible.
Apple's insistence on a big entrance is making it late for it's own party. It's like iPhoto and Sherlock all over again.
Re: don't understand...please can someone explain?
Sorry to point this out but we do actually have one big european apple superstore. All orders taken via the applestore online in europe are actually processed through Apples main european HQ in Paris.
I agree with a previous post however that it is probably the uk holding it up for the rest of europe. Us not being in the euro doesn't help matters and the record companies make considerably higher margins in the uk than the rest of europe.
Originally posted by fluidfloyd
What I don't understand is why they are going for a European iTMS at all, rather than a UK iTMS, German iTMS etc., delivering one store at a time. Surely this would be much simpler and quicker to sort. We have separate Apple stores after all...not just one big European Apple Superstore...
I would have thought a UK iTMS would be the logical first step in Europe due to translation issues - but maybe the legal wrangling with the Beatles' Apple Corp(?) is holding this up?
Anyone able to point out why what I see as sensible isn't necessarily so???
Sorry to point this out but we do actually have one big european apple superstore. All orders taken via the applestore online in europe are actually processed through Apples main european HQ in Paris.
I agree with a previous post however that it is probably the uk holding it up for the rest of europe. Us not being in the euro doesn't help matters and the record companies make considerably higher margins in the uk than the rest of europe.
Re: Beat the system?
They need to be close-ish family however - you wouldn't want them spending your money on it...
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Regarding the rest of the thread, I don't blame Apple. This really sucks and it may be better if they go country by country, although that may not be so good for the smaller, less dominating European countries. However, certainly there is some backward attitude in Britain that means companies only think in a very short-sighted way and try to rip everyone off. It wouldn't surprise me if the songs on iTMS cost 99p (if they are lower, I'm betting on 79p, not 54p that USA exchange rate is). Even that is far better value than £3.99 for a single with one song and two crap ones. I doubt I'd buy albums on iTMS though.
You can quite easily beat the system but only if you know someone in the USA that you can trust with your money. Get them to set up a cheap no-fee internet credit card using their address and name and let them keep the card in a draw somewhere out of the way. The card is linked to your bank balance and then you have the details so that you can use it on iTMS, settling the bill online.
They need to be close-ish family however - you wouldn't want them spending your money on it...
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Regarding the rest of the thread, I don't blame Apple. This really sucks and it may be better if they go country by country, although that may not be so good for the smaller, less dominating European countries. However, certainly there is some backward attitude in Britain that means companies only think in a very short-sighted way and try to rip everyone off. It wouldn't surprise me if the songs on iTMS cost 99p (if they are lower, I'm betting on 79p, not 54p that USA exchange rate is). Even that is far better value than £3.99 for a single with one song and two crap ones. I doubt I'd buy albums on iTMS though.
Re: Re: don't understand...please can someone explain?
Well, this IS true. Like Apple is also actually one company - hence we have actually one worldwide Apple-store.
So european headquarter is in Paris (I thought actually the products shipped from Ireland..?), but you are still not able to shop from the french Apple store in Germany or to shop at all if there is no Apple store available for your country. You don't have to have an office in each country for the ITMS either, just a selective interface for each one.
As far as the currency problem and the earnings these are surely not only UK problems - these will anyway differ from a lot of countries. Remember that only 12 of 15 current members use Euro, 11 more EU countries are pending (which will not go Euro for a little while), and there are still countries outside of EU in Europe (as much as we hate it ) Anyway - all different earnings and currencies are easily solved within the Apple store system. Could as easily be solved in ITMS. More I think of this, the more I believe Apple is being overly ambitious if they want to "unite" europe...
Well, this IS true. Like Apple is also actually one company - hence we have actually one worldwide Apple-store.
So european headquarter is in Paris (I thought actually the products shipped from Ireland..?), but you are still not able to shop from the french Apple store in Germany or to shop at all if there is no Apple store available for your country. You don't have to have an office in each country for the ITMS either, just a selective interface for each one.
As far as the currency problem and the earnings these are surely not only UK problems - these will anyway differ from a lot of countries. Remember that only 12 of 15 current members use Euro, 11 more EU countries are pending (which will not go Euro for a little while), and there are still countries outside of EU in Europe (as much as we hate it
) Anyway - all different earnings and currencies are easily solved within the Apple store system. Could as easily be solved in ITMS. More I think of this, the more I believe Apple is being overly ambitious if they want to "unite" europe...By one of those strange coincidences, this is being talked about on the same day that the British press announce that UK sales of singles have dropped by one third in the last year.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1144587,00.html
I have no doubt that Apple want the iTMS Europe to open immediately. The delays must be coming from the music industry and yet that same industry is failing to sell it's products.
One can only marvel at the spectacular stupidity of an industry which can lose sales at such a phenomenal rate and still put obstacles in the path of a proven solution with a huge pent-up demand.
iPod sales in the UK are incredible. In the last quarter, if you take out sales within the US, the UK bought as many iPods as the rest of the world put together. Sales would have been even higher if supply could have kept up with demand.
There can be little doubt that iTMS sales would also be massive in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1144587,00.html
I have no doubt that Apple want the iTMS Europe to open immediately. The delays must be coming from the music industry and yet that same industry is failing to sell it's products.
One can only marvel at the spectacular stupidity of an industry which can lose sales at such a phenomenal rate and still put obstacles in the path of a proven solution with a huge pent-up demand.
iPod sales in the UK are incredible. In the last quarter, if you take out sales within the US, the UK bought as many iPods as the rest of the world put together. Sales would have been even higher if supply could have kept up with demand.
There can be little doubt that iTMS sales would also be massive in the UK.
I don't see this as the whole point to iTMS. I am not too fussed with the fact the the songs I download from iTMS are legal compared to those I download through filesharing (I am one of those people with poor moral groundings I guess). I just LOVE the convenience. It kicks filesharing because it's an enjoyable experience, you can easily find the song you want, you can preview the song, it's high quality, and you can buy whole albums.
I live in Australia but have a sister in the US who has bought me several iTMS gift certificates (probably US$200 in total) which I have redeemed and used here. I know this is not 'by the rule book', but it works for me, and I'm sure the artists don't care where I buy, as long as I buy.
Whilst I appreciate the Apple (AUST) market must be so small comared to the US and Euro markets...
we also were rumoured to get iTMS in the first quarter of 2004.
We actually have I think at least THREE other online music options now (all WMA though)?!?!??!?!
I don't know if it is useless Apple Australia... or whether we aren't anywhere up the priority order of Apple (US or worldwide)...
sigh I'm a Windows user - in love with my 3G 40GB iPOD... even have talked a few mates into getting them! I was contemplating almost next buying more Apple hardware...
but if iTMS doesn't get here soon I think they will miss the market. Others will buy portable solutions that they can play all the digital music they are downloading in WMA format.
Other option might be - that if HP & Apple deal recently includes HP's rumoured requirement to get their version playing WMA - then say good bye to Australian or global iTMS domination I think.
Lets hope not - especially as it isn't here yet!
we also were rumoured to get iTMS in the first quarter of 2004.
We actually have I think at least THREE other online music options now (all WMA though)?!?!??!?!
I don't know if it is useless Apple Australia... or whether we aren't anywhere up the priority order of Apple (US or worldwide)...
sigh I'm a Windows user - in love with my 3G 40GB iPOD... even have talked a few mates into getting them! I was contemplating almost next buying more Apple hardware...
but if iTMS doesn't get here soon I think they will miss the market. Others will buy portable solutions that they can play all the digital music they are downloading in WMA format.
Other option might be - that if HP & Apple deal recently includes HP's rumoured requirement to get their version playing WMA - then say good bye to Australian or global iTMS domination I think.
Lets hope not - especially as it isn't here yet!
Just remembered the annoying thing about Applestore. I work for a UK company but am based in Finland. To get something ordered and sent to me here we have to use Applestore Finland.. and thus the UK company cannot claim the VAT back in its accounts, even though the UK company is buying it and asking it to come to me in Finland. No official reason for being awkward but the Apple way. Yet many stores in the UK will ship to Finland and bill the UK company without a problem !
More competition in Europe, particularly the last bit from EMI.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35433.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35433.html
Collecting Societies to blame in the UK?
One of the factors behind the delay in the UK is the MCPS (who collect royalties on the sale of music). The MCPS are sticking to a frankly unsustainable position on the level of royalties they receive per sale, apparently way in excess of what they get from the sale of CDs or vinyl.
I know that a number of specialist download sites are refusing to pay this, and have instead set up trust accounts where-pending a settlement with the MCPS- they are paying in a percentage of the download price equal to the percentage they would pay for a CD.
While this is feasible for a small site, iTMS would not be able to get away with this, and so need to negotiate a proper agreement with MCPS. Without this, download prices at least here in the UK would have to be significantly more expensive than in the US- and who would likely cop the flak for this? Apple.
Roxio/Napster alluded to the collecting societies being the main obstacle at Midem (Euro music industry convention) last month. While the record labels are part of this, it is unfair to blame them entirely- MCPS is ultimately controlled by writers and performers of music, not the labels.
One of the factors behind the delay in the UK is the MCPS (who collect royalties on the sale of music). The MCPS are sticking to a frankly unsustainable position on the level of royalties they receive per sale, apparently way in excess of what they get from the sale of CDs or vinyl.
I know that a number of specialist download sites are refusing to pay this, and have instead set up trust accounts where-pending a settlement with the MCPS- they are paying in a percentage of the download price equal to the percentage they would pay for a CD.
While this is feasible for a small site, iTMS would not be able to get away with this, and so need to negotiate a proper agreement with MCPS. Without this, download prices at least here in the UK would have to be significantly more expensive than in the US- and who would likely cop the flak for this? Apple.
Roxio/Napster alluded to the collecting societies being the main obstacle at Midem (Euro music industry convention) last month. While the record labels are part of this, it is unfair to blame them entirely- MCPS is ultimately controlled by writers and performers of music, not the labels.
Re: Re: Beat the system?
If that isn't an option, you could probably get someone on one of these forums to buy a iTunes gift certificate and sell it to you (I think they're e-delivery) online using paypal. Then all you'd need to do is create the iTunes account with a bogus US mailing address, right?
Semi-OT: when iTunes releases in more global markets, what's the chance that new music from those markets will become available here? Will an American be able to buy iTunes songs released for Japan, etc? I hope so.
If that isn't an option, you could probably get someone on one of these forums to buy a iTunes gift certificate and sell it to you (I think they're e-delivery) online using paypal. Then all you'd need to do is create the iTunes account with a bogus US mailing address, right?
Semi-OT: when iTunes releases in more global markets, what's the chance that new music from those markets will become available here? Will an American be able to buy iTunes songs released for Japan, etc? I hope so.
Doesn't surprise me one little bit.
To be honest, I cannot see the day when iTMS will arrive in Europe. Apple should make individual European Stores, otherwise the competitors will be getting in these countries first.
Whats keeping Canada iTMS though?
To be honest, I cannot see the day when iTMS will arrive in Europe. Apple should make individual European Stores, otherwise the competitors will be getting in these countries first.
Whats keeping Canada iTMS though?
Why not just release music stores for individual countries first? Then the labels in the stubborn countries will see how much money is being made, and they'll come around quickly.
So as I used to live in the states and bought a few CDs while I was there, does that mean I no longer have a license to listen to them now I have returned?
This is a grey legal area, but as I understand (and I'm no legal expert) you are buying a license to listen to the music, rather than the physical data & right to decode it.
It is interesting to note that if you purchase music on iTMS as a US resident, when you move outside the US, if you change your address in your .Mac profile and re-install/upgrade your Mac, you will no longer be able to listen to your music.
It is interesting to note that if you purchase music on iTMS as a US resident, when you move outside the US, if you change your address in your .Mac profile and re-install/upgrade your Mac, you will no longer be able to listen to your music.
hmm
sorry, but this is wrong.
the european community was important for germany to grow that fast after the 2nd world war and is very important for the german economy up to today. most of german economy relies on exports and if the part of the economy wouldn't work aswel as it does, the economic situation in germany would be alot worse. but, ok... germans just ike to complain about the EU...
sorry, but this is wrong.
the european community was important for germany to grow that fast after the 2nd world war and is very important for the german economy up to today. most of german economy relies on exports and if the part of the economy wouldn't work aswel as it does, the economic situation in germany would be alot worse. but, ok... germans just ike to complain about the EU...
Re: Re: Let's get going!!!!!
I just meant to say that iChat is U.S.-centric because of the large percentage of AOL Chat users outweighs that in other countries. Here in Canada the fact that you can talk with others on the AOL network isn't a plus because the number of AOL Chat users is so low. That considered along with the low number of Mac users around makes iChat a lonely experience. MSN Messenger on the other hand is the REAL party line. Everybody and their Aunt Bessie is on MSN.
I just meant to say that iChat is U.S.-centric because of the large percentage of AOL Chat users outweighs that in other countries. Here in Canada the fact that you can talk with others on the AOL network isn't a plus because the number of AOL Chat users is so low. That considered along with the low number of Mac users around makes iChat a lonely experience. MSN Messenger on the other hand is the REAL party line. Everybody and their Aunt Bessie is on MSN.