iTunes Europe... More Delays?

[Alienrat]

Re: Let's get going!!!!!

Originally posted by Phazer80s
I just meant to say that iChat is U.S.-centric because of the large percentage of AOL Chat users outweighs that in other countries. Here in Canada the fact that you can talk with others on the AOL network isn't a plus because the number of AOL Chat users is so low. That considered along with the low number of Mac users around makes iChat a lonely experience. MSN Messenger on the other hand is the REAL party line. Everybody and their Aunt Bessie is on MSN.

Whereas here in the UK, the only people I know on AOL are mac users and I need ICQ to talk to everyone else, apart from one person I know on MSN.

 

[Foocha]

EU

1. Not all of Europe is a member of the EU - Switzerland, Norway etc

2. Not all of Europe uses the Euro - UK, Sweden, Denmark

3. Whilst we have some common EU directives they are ratified differently by each member state - that's a lot of legalese to get through

4. <off topic>Germany probably does pay too much to the EU, but the .de government only have themselves to blame for their bizarre support of France's position on the Common Agricultural Policy.</off topic>

Like most things in life, the EU has its pros & cons, but is of little help to Apple in this situation I think.

 

[takao]

Re: Re: Let's get going!!!!!

Originally posted by Alienrat
Whereas here in the UK, the only people I know on AOL are mac users and I need ICQ to talk to everyone else, apart from one person I know on MSN.

OT:
im from central europe and have to agree ...
AOl is still around but their importance as a big ISP shrunk to a few percent..nobody is using AOL instant messenger .I know 2-3 people who are one MSN ...2 of them because of minesweeper online game and everbody else: ICQ ...there are people who have internet access and don't have a email adress but they have ICQ
ICQ _is_ AOL proberty so it shouldn't be very difficult to make a deal iChat-ICQ like this iChat-Aim deal

i think iTunes europe won't have the same success like in the US ...the musik industry isn't really powerfull enough to threaten people with sueing ... the german music industrie had a huge campaign against music piracy this winter ... and got sued because they discriminated people who sit in prisons... the newspapers and tv made a lot of fun about those commercials

in holland kazaa is legal

this and the rather small iTunes user base (because of less macs) will lead to rather moderate success in the beginning

 

[Stella]

???? Who is smoking crack?

Nothing stops you from listening to your music if you move to a different country - CDs, or music purchased from ITMS, anything.

Originally posted by nitro
Isn't this a flaw in the system then, didn't Steve Jobs make a big deal that you owned the music not renting it.. If you emigrate to a different country you loose all the music you've legally bought, doesn't seem very fair

 

[John Lockwood]

Re: EU

Originally posted by Foocha
4. <off topic>Germany probably does pay too much to the EU, but the .de government only have themselves to blame for their bizarre support of France's position on the Common Agricultural Policy.</off topic>

O so true.

The EU has been designed for and is run for solely the benefit of French peasants.

While one can understand why the French goverment wants this, I cannot see why the German government keeps on supporting (and paying for) it.

 

[flipflash77]

Originally posted by Stella
Whats keeping Canada iTMS though?

I'm going to jump in and say Canadian Content laws. While CANCON I think applies more specifically to broadcast channels (radio, TV), it's probably a case where the different recording industry lobbies in Canada are demanding there be some localization and provisions for Canadian content. I'm too ignorant to look up hard numbers today. I'm sure someone will chime in on the CANCON regulations (I remember them being hotly debated here back in Oct/Nov03 when we were hoping we'd have it already).

Other issues... We have two (or more) recording industry lobbies that Apple needs to get licensing from. That was easier in the US with the one huge RIAA to deal with. Up here the artists have one lobby, the writer's have another lobby, the labels might even have a lobby of their own. How very European non?

As a reasonably patriotic Canadian, I've tried using puretracks.com (Canadian WMA store). It bites. The first couple congs I purchased were great. A Coldplay song was actually in 320kbps WMA, which I then burned and reimported into iTunes. Since that first purchase though, it's been nothing but a hassle. I bought 6 songs about a month ago: they all came at different bitrates ranging from 128 to 160 to 192. (which I guess was provided by the label), and continually failed to burn to CD. Add on stupid WMA DRM limits of 3 CD burns, and I quickly ran out of burns trying to figure out why WMPlayer was always failing to burn. So emails to tech support had them resetting the DRM, me trying to burn on different machines, NOTHING. It failed every time no matter where I burned it. WMA sucks. Just this week they finally credited me with a refund. Won't see me shopping there any more.

So now I'm back to using iTMS with bought Gift Cards from an Apple Store, or cousins in the US emailling me gift certificates. iTMS is great. Now I wonder what happens to all of my stuff when iTMS does come to Canada... Change my billing address back to Canada, but what will happen to remaining credits and already purchased music...

 

[iMan]

Re: Re: Re: Let's get going!!!!!

Originally posted by takao
i think iTunes europe won't have the same success like in the US ........
this and the rather small iTunes user base (because of less macs) will lead to rather moderate success in the beginning

I partly agree - and Apple needs to hurry to get a piece...
Still I believe the iTunes userbase is a lot larger than the Mac user base - even in Europe. The iPods are vastly popular amongst PC user as well, I know a lot of Win users that like the iTunes and uses it, and also the HP deal (preinstalled iTunes) is paving the ground for success. But I am not sure if Apple can afford to wait until after this summer to launch... There is a lot going on, and as soon as people hooks up to another store/concept they might be very hard to win back...

 

[Localcelebrity]

it's so sad how messed up the world's legal systems are... this whole process is rediculously overcomplicated.

 

[billyboy]

As someone mentioned earlier, it was announced that the UK singles market is dropping - the public only bought 35 million singles last year, down from 50 million in 2002. But you are talking island prices here, not highly competitive US pricing, and at 3.99 a pop even with declining sales, the nincumpoops running the industry probably think they are in the driving seat, not Apple.

Apple basically have to set the first bar upwards of 120 million tracks per year at 99p just to match current singles sales in little old UK stores. Quite a step in faith really. I would go for it, but then I am not a dinosaur music man, and although I have no idea what is going on, it really wouldnt surprise me if the UK ended up a year behind everyone else's thinking.

 

[jj2003]

OT: ICQ and iChat

Originally posted by takao
OT:
ICQ _is_ AOL proberty so it shouldn't be very difficult to make a deal iChat-ICQ like this iChat-Aim deal

That is true, AOL owns ICQ. The thing that many people do not know is that upgrading to a new enough (Windows) ICQ will give you ICQ-AIM interoperability, text only, AFAIK.

That means also that if the other party is using new enough ICQ you can chat with them with iChat. Just write the ICQ-number instead of AOL screenname.

 

[jj2003]

Apple's European pricing

Originally posted by iMan
But then I would not complain about prices here in Norway neither, we are some percent above the US, but we also have a 24% sales tax.

The sales tax varies from country to country so it's best to compare tax free prices (as the prices on US Apple Store).

I would not complain much about Norweigian prices either. I checked the price for 12" powerbook (with no extras), according to Apple Store the price in Norway is about 12089 NOK == 1357 EUR == 1732 USD.

In Finland (and other EU-countries with Euro, I would guess) the price is 1599 EUR == 2040 USD == 14245 NOK.

As the price in USA is 1599 USD, Apple is charging me $440 for localisation, shipping etc. Does the Finnish localisation cost $300 more than Norweigian for each shipped unit, hardly.

I would gladly spend that $300 for something else than Steve's next vacation, or at least get an iPod in exchange for my money.

Edited twice because of some silly typing mistakes

 

[iMan]

Re: Apple's European pricing

Originally posted by jj2003

As the price in USA is 1599 USD, Apple is charging me $440 for localisation, shipping etc. Does the Finnish localisation cost $300 more than Norweigian for each shipped unit, hardly.
[/I]

Yes, that was weird. Norway and Finland is about the same size market I should guess, and even with Finland inside EU + euro should be to their advantage... strange!

 

[iMan]

Re: Apple's European pricing

Originally posted by jj2003
according to Apple Store the price in Norway is about 12089 NOK == 1357 EUR == 1732 USD.

In Finland (and other EU-countries with Euro, I would guess) the price is 1599 EUR == 2040 USD == 14245 NOK.
[/I]

I checked also swedish and UK prices:
In Sweden the equivalent price would be USD 2013, and UK 2068! How weird is that! And they say Norway is an expensive country

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I would be glad if they just release it country by country. Whenever they are ready in one country - GO. Would even make sense in terms of revenues.

 

[billyboy]

I wonder which powerful representatives of the music industry Apple are speaking to for launching iTMS in places like Luxembourg and the principality of the Vatican City?

 

[visor]

I certainly don't want ITMS Europe

Let's face it, even though I'm located in europe, why would I even want an european ITMS? It doesn't suit my demand. I definately want a localized store, that means - different music than elsewhere, different Homepages than eslewhere, different languages, different focus, completely different way of lives.
While I'd like to switch between stores, I don't want the focus to be diffused by mixing everything into one.

 

[visor]

Re: Apple's European pricing

Originally posted by jj2003
The sales tax varies from country to country so it's best to compare tax free prices (as the prices on US Apple Store).


As the price in USA is 1599 USD, Apple is charging me $440 for localisation, shipping etc. Does the Finnish localisation cost $300 more than Norweigian for each shipped unit, hardly.

I've been complainig about that times and times again, but on the other hand - the US $ is dropping so fast, it would probably to expensive to adjust the prices all the time.
Last summer it would have been €300 Cheaper to FLY to NEW YORK, BUY A 17" POWERBOOK, AND COME HOME AGAIN that buying it at the local Apple store.

There's your vacation.

 

[visor]

Re: Re: EU

Originally posted by John Lockwood
O so true.

The EU has been designed for and is run for solely the benefit of French peasants.

While one can understand why the French goverment wants this, I cannot see why the German government keeps on supporting (and paying for) it.

Well, I don't know about you, but i rather pay a higher price for a comparatively good product that people work for, that pay it for employless people that just cause trouble.

Just look at what they have to eat in the US... It's not a desirable goal

 

[visor]

Re: euromess...

Originally posted by mobility3
I've been roaming around Europe for some years. The musician union/copyright systems seem to run extremely deep. In Germany for instance I believe you have to pay a tax just to own a radio or television and you are not allowed to play a radio station in a restaurant or shop without paying authors rights duties. The same goes for all material broadcast on radio stations. There are 'controlers' who go around everywhere and enforce the regulations.

Actually it's not a tax you're paying, but a fee. That was once implemented to finance to national Bradcast stations restricted to souvereign right.
that fee is about to undergo major changes soon btw.
Playing radio in public is completly unspectacular, as long as you don't play it to attract customers. It's quite logical that you have to pay royalties to persons whose work you take to advertise your producs, services.
Now, for the 'controllers' : they enforce nothing, but there are civilians running around, trying hard to make you register your radio and tv set. As for everyone without judical allowance - their power is limited to outside your house. If he tries to 'enforce ' anything inside your doors, you're well allowed to use the apropiate tools to enfoce your right of untouchable household. I have a very nice one piece solid stainless steel geologist hammer for those purposes. That is not only good for breaking granite and the like, if used correctly it even makes cars hold a very respective distance if you walk down a narrow country road. Extremely useful tool. worth every penny

 

[iMan]

Re: Re: euromess...

Originally posted by visor
Actually it's not a tax you're paying, but a fee. That was once implemented to finance to national Bradcast stations restricted to souvereign right.
that fee is about to undergo major changes soon btw.
Playing radio in public is completly unspectacular, as long as you don't play it to attract customers. It's quite logical that you have to pay royalties to persons whose work you take to advertise your producs, services.

I must arrest you a little bit on this one. This might be very different from country to country, but I know that in several countries in Europe - although debated - there are no plans to abolish or even reduce the fee/tax you are talking about (for owning a TV receptor).
Also, in the matter of playing music in public, there are several countries were you have to pay a fee to the artist/songwriter organisation. This applies to all areas were the public has access (i.e. malls, shops, restaurants, even taxi's some places and of course radiostations - any place as long as it is to attract/entertain). Playing your radio/CD player as a private person on the beach is of course no problem. So far these regulations, as far as I know will, be upheld.
Again: these rules are probably very different from each country - and I know of but a few of them...

 

[orangedv]

Pan Europe iTunes

The more I think about this, the more puzzling it seems.....

Consider a step into tomorrow; iTunes Europe is up and running across the continent. You log on, but you don't necessarily speak English. Problem. Ok, let 's have a drop down menu for language selection. While we are at it, let's offer music that reflects that language choice, because let's be honest, hard core Portuguese rock might not sell well in Denmark. Before you know it, your all European iTunes store is to all intent a country by country system. Which brings me to the point. Why bother going for the whole continent?

 

[orangedv]

another thing

how can I be a 'newbie' having been registered for this amount of time?

 

[Rower_CPU]

Re: another thing

Originally posted by orangedv
how can I be a 'newbie' having been registered for this amount of time?

Status is determined by post count, not length of time registered.

 

[6163621]

I was discussing this (lack of E ITMS) with a friend and he jokingly (I think) said that Apple had to make a European launch because many Americans would not understand where many European countries would be (one big lake between New York, Ireland and England) and then there is some place which makes funny cuckoo clocks and then you have the Russian Bear.

I pointed out that Apple users are generally more intelligent and would know that Europe is one big place even if they would be forgiven for not knowing it is as corrupt (institution wise) as the UN and other big places.

Now, you could imagine a "red neck" Gateway / Msft using guy wondering why a Good Ol American company, even if it has a slightly faggy leftwing pinko leaning is giving music to those cheese eating surrender monkeys. Perhaps they think it is some extension of Radio Free Europe or a CIA conversion campaign.





DISCLAIMER. The last paragraph is satire. I do not subscribe to the view that all Americans are dumb asses. Whilst there are many dumb ass Americans, there are no doubt equal proportions of dumb ass Britons, French folks and even Finns. But the latter just hide in obscurity doing government work and sending me lots of paperworks to fill in which are made purposefully compelx.

 

[iLilana]

slightly off topic but...

why does Macrumors.com post ads for Puretracks.com which is windows only music downloads???? In fact they went out of thier way to NOT allow macs use their website. An agreement with MS no doubt.

suddenly I feel like the girl in the black armor from Blood Gulch Chronicles. ... or was that Private Donut...?