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I've gone Windows...

Yes?! On something that you can't easily upgrade like the iMac, users do NEED USB 3. I like to have an SSD in my machines, which are fast, but space-limited. So for extra storage, my only options are USB 2 (slow) or Thunderbolt (expensive)? That's just retarded.

My 2 year-old under-$200 media server with a $45 motherboard has USB 3 FFS!

motrek said:
I understand your point and empathize with the rest of your post but your "loyal customer needs" is a bit much, isn't it? Do you really ***need*** USB3?
Click to expand...
 
you're n00bs

Reading all your comments led me to the conclusion or assumption that many are really far from understanding basic computing. Microsoft flaghship product has always been winOS, many people, companies and institutions rely on this product. THEY WON'T ABANDON PC USERS IN THE NEAR FUTURE in spite of all the rumors of W8 being more "tablet" oriented, however they must move forward and embrace new technologies and that's IMHO understandable. There was a massive virus attack derived from the same "Anti-Virus" Companies back in 1998 this created a lot hatred and MacOS capitalized an opportunity to successfully enter the market BUT whether you like it or not the odds that you find a PC in any home you visit are really high so they're still leading in the OS universe

Don't fool yourselves. Unix, Linux, OSx were built from their primary competitor MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I agree the layout of MacOS is "prettier" but Apple positioning in the market is due to a practical interface and powerful hardware options for developers, today it seems the objectives have changed.

"Desktop", is a concept developed by Xerox and brushed up by Microsoft later on. Windows is really easy to use and install and building a PC is like playing LEGO it's just that simple. It's cheaper and way more complete in terms of hardware and software support excluding of course mac closed apps. You can customize everything in it, even make it look like a Mac. Viruses are not a problem if you're an aware surfer (not addicted to porn or obvious viral links) I don't use any Antivirus program and my OS it's still blazing fast and responsive. Furthermore all the main brand software houses have their versions released for Windows even sooner than for Mac, that without taking into account millions of freeware available.

So ok, you have a few cons to consider:
- File System and fragmentation (partially solved)
- Windows Updates (Customizable)
- Blue Screen of death (Kernel Panic) it's the same for both
- A kind of tedious interface

Other than that, a PC is completely able to perform any specific task, it's completely user friendly in terms of maintenance and repair, and if it starts to act up you can always format and reinstall an image of your OS with all your basic software and settings included so you don't go back to zero.
 
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masp84 said:
Reading all your comments led me to the conclusion or assumption that many are really far from understanding basic computing. Microsoft flaghship product has always been winOS, many people, companies and institutions rely on this product. THEY WON'T ABANDON PC USERS IN THE NEAR FUTURE in spite of all the rumors of W8 being more "tablet" oriented, however they must move forward and embrace new technologies and that's IMHO understandable. There was a massive virus attack derived from the same "Anti-Virus" Companies back in 1998 this created a lot hatred and MacOS capitalized an opportunity to successfully enter the market BUT whether you like it or not the odds that you find a PC in any home you visit are really high so they're still leading in the OS universe

Don't fool yourselves. Unix, Linux, OSx were built from their primary competitor MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I agree the layout of MacOS is "prettier" but Apple positioning in the market is due to a practical interface and powerful hardware options for developers, today it seems the objectives have changed.

"Desktop", is a concept developed by Xerox and brushed up by Microsoft later on. Windows is really easy to use and install and building a PC is like playing LEGO it's just that simple. It's cheaper and way more complete in terms of hardware and software support excluding of course mac closed apps. You can customize everything in it, even make it look like a Mac. Viruses are not a problem if you're an aware surfer (not addicted to porn or obvious viral links) I don't use any Antivirus program and my OS it's still blazing fast and responsive. Furthermore all the main brand software houses have their versions released for Windows even sooner than for Mac, that without taking into account millions of freeware available.

So ok, you have a few cons to consider:
- File System and fragmentation (partially solved)
- Windows Updates (Customizable)
- Blue Screen of death (Kernel Panic) it's the same for both
- A kind of tedious interface

Other than that, a PC is completely able to perform any specific task, it's completely user friendly in terms of maintenance and repair, and if it starts to act up you can always format and reinstall an image of your OS with all your basic software and settings included so you don't go back to zero.
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Sorry buddy, but I used that crap for decades and won't be returning to it.
 
fa8362 said:
Sorry buddy, but I used that crap for decades and won't be returning to it.
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you really need to understand the new world.

apple fanboys or window fanboys suffer far more then mixed users.


in fact apple wants you to be a mixed user think boot camp, parallels and vmware fusion. A smart consumer should have a mix of gear and software or get their pockets picked.

In fact to be a die hard apple fan with 0 windows is truly missing apples own desire for you to run windows on their gear.

So I now run windows 7 and I will run windows 8 on all my macs via vmware fusion. I also built 2 killer diy pcs that only run windows 7. I will set one up as a dual boot some time soon w 7 and w 8. On my macs I run snow, lion and mountain lion. this way if one company gets loopy I have a max of choice.
 
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I think it's a good idea...just make sure u get parts that are compatible with making a hackintosh.

Also agree with u about Apple. I think they have abandoned their desktop users in favor of making iCrap.

iOS is a stale icon manager from the 80s
OSX is a 11 year old GUI that still has horrible networking capabilities and annoying window management ... I hate that it auto scrolls through my windows when I'm closing them down
The Dock is lame...Windows 7 bar kills our dock. It has mini windows of what you are working on so you can easily jump between your work.
The iMac is 2 year old tech
The Mac Pro is 3 year old tech
The Mini is 2 year old tech

LCDs come from AUO, LG, or Samsung in a variety of colors and performance levels.

Condescending genius techs make me sick with their crafted insults..."your holding it wrong"

MS Office still sucks for the mac

Pages, Numbers still don't have a feature for default file type - LOOSER

Apple Samba is broken

I just build a beast of a PC, but using it for ESXi 5.1. Amazing the support and the available hardware these days. Put in an LSI raid card with 4 240GB SSDs on RAID 5 and my Read/Write is up in the 1500 range. There is a lot you can do these days with home made PCs. The only thing you can do with a Mac is pay them 200 dollars to unglue your battery hahaha
 
loybond said:
Yes?! On something that you can't easily upgrade like the iMac, users do NEED USB 3. I like to have an SSD in my machines, which are fast, but space-limited. So for extra storage, my only options are USB 2 (slow) or Thunderbolt (expensive)? That's just retarded.

My 2 year-old under-$200 media server with a $45 motherboard has USB 3 FFS!
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Yes, obviously USB 3 is better and nice and should be standard on any new computer and it's a shame Apple isn't selling an AIO with it. But *need*? Like, you need USB 3 to do your job and you're going to be fired if you don't have it? Come on.
 
motrek said:
Yes, obviously USB 3 is better and nice and should be standard on any new computer and it's a shame Apple isn't selling an AIO with it. But *need*? Like, you need USB 3 to do your job and you're going to be fired if you don't have it? Come on.
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Come on man. If ur trying to find something out about someones need for usb3 get over it. Im in the same boat and current imac may be good enough to do a job but its not good enough for me to buy. That fact is the value sucks plain and simple. If folks are cool with buying 500 day old imac thats fine but dont judge others for not drinking the same koolaid.
 
masp84 said:
...
Don't fool yourselves. Unix, Linux, OSx were built from their primary competitor MICROSOFT WINDOWS. I agree the layout of MacOS is "prettier" but Apple positioning in the market is due to a practical interface and powerful hardware options for developers, today it seems the objectives have changed.

"Desktop", is a concept developed by Xerox and brushed up by Microsoft later on...
Click to expand...

Think you ought to go and read some history books. Far from being 'built from' windows, unix preceded that operating system by some way. And it was apple that did the original desktop work after xerox, Microsoft copied them.
 
HurryKayne said:
This is a good example of what an Hackintosh could be,
by the way this is not intended to be but just gives hint about it.
http://www.nikktech.com/main/articl...-v353a-aluminum-pc-case?showall=1&limitstart=
http://whatthetech.info/tutorials/lian-li-pc-v353a-mod
I'm actually ordering that case,a Lian Li 353A Silver with Tony macX86 advices.
Click to expand...

Not really a big fan of those square cases. They are pretty big. Probably have the same volume as a mini tower, but without the same convenience of being able to just pop the side off and access all the components.
 
HurryKayne said:
This is a good example of what an Hackintosh could be,
by the way this is not intended to be but just gives hint about it.
http://www.nikktech.com/main/articl...-v353a-aluminum-pc-case?showall=1&limitstart=
http://whatthetech.info/tutorials/lian-li-pc-v353a-mod
I'm actually ordering that case,a Lian Li 353A Silver with Tony macX86 advices.
Click to expand...

Boy that's a nice one! I really dig the case although it'd probably be a bit cramped for me, if I decided to go hackintosh. Seems like not much room for additional HDDs but I dig it.

masp84 said:
"Desktop", is a concept developed by Xerox and brushed up by Microsoft later on.
Click to expand...

Nice fail, stopped reading right there. I think MS was definitely NOT the company who was "brushing up" anything. They weren't in the hardware business much.
 
I Totally Agree

I've been very disappointed with the move away from products for the creative class/prosumers whom have supported Apple through thick and thin for decades.

I didn't bother with Final Cut X because of all it lacked when they launched it.

I use Adobe apps for web and graphic design work, and this year made the switch to Premiere. With the Creative Cloud apps I am no longer limited to Windows or Macs. I can access or download the apps I want with whatever OS I am using and registered to at the moment.

So lately, I've been asking myself, "why am I sticking with Macs"?

Next week I'm getting an iPad and an Apple TV so I can make presentations, but I am really dragging my heals on this because I am not happy with Apple downscaling apps, think OS X Lion is junk and overall started losing faith in the company even before Steve passed away.

The only reason I'm getting the iPad is because I need something now, Chrome on my not-so-smart phone does not sync with what I already have and that causes my business issues and I cannot wait until Windows 8 is launched.

So for the reasons you posted xkmxkmxlmx, and the one's I've stated, I can see a day soon where we move to being a Windows based business.
 
49JC said:
Come on man. If ur trying to find something out about someones need for usb3 get over it. Im in the same boat and current imac may be good enough to do a job but its not good enough for me to buy. That fact is the value sucks plain and simple. If folks are cool with buying 500 day old imac thats fine but dont judge others for not drinking the same koolaid.
Click to expand...

Hey, I don't like it either. I've been waiting for an iMac refresh just like everybody else and it sucks. I'm annoyed at Apple and I'm not drinking any Kool Aid.

But I'm also sick of posters exaggerating their hardship and saying things like they "need" a refresh, as if they're going to lose their job, get divorced, or contract a terminal disease because Apple isn't refreshing the iMac. Get over it and get over yourselves. The few people who seemed to have a legitimate business case for a refreshed iMac have gone and bought retina MacBooks and connected them to Cinema Displays instead. The only people still here and complaining about the lack of a refresh are people who do not "need" it (myself included).
 
The most legitimate complaint you could level at Apple here is their frozen price points. Apple rarely changes their prices until a new model is introduced. Since technology has a short shelf life, it depreciates quickly. Most assemblers like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc.. have been discounting from early on in the production cycle. They have all now moved on to the new technology (IB/2012 GPUs) and even these are now getting discounted as all the old tech has been drained from the channels. I think there would have been fewer complaints if Apple dropped their prices in April but that is not in keeping with the brand image.
 
philipma1957 said:
you really need to understand the new world.

apple fanboys or window fanboys suffer far more then mixed users.


in fact apple wants you to be a mixed user think boot camp, parallels and vmware fusion. A smart consumer should have a mix of gear and software or get their pockets picked.

In fact to be a die hard apple fan with 0 windows is truly missing apples own desire for you to run windows on their gear.

So I now run windows 7 and I will run windows 8 on all my macs via vmware fusion. I also built 2 killer diy pcs that only run windows 7. I will set one up as a dual boot some time soon w 7 and w 8. On my macs I run snow, lion and mountain lion. this way if one company gets loopy I have a max of choice.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I'm always on the fence between Windows and Mac. So far CCC and the Mac software ecosystem have kept me primarily on Mac. I've got separate SL, ML, W7 and W8 hard drives for my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro.

Windows 8 with Metro bypassed is pretty nice but then there's that Mac software ecosystem. . .
 
I have to admit that I was on the fence about switching to another iMac. I had one about 4 years ago and thought it was a pretty decent machine, but I missed the very familiar windows, the gaming options, the expandability and customization...long story short I built a high end PC that smoked the pants of the iMac I owned for 3 months and I built it for the same price...

Fast forward to today - the PC I built 4 years ago still runs like beast but I want to upgrade. For some odd reason I settled in my mind on an iMac about a month ago. Reading this forum and seeing that the current 2011 iMac is the same price it was a year and a half ago left me a little shocked. Very overpriced for relatively dated hardware. You can argue it still performs well, but it is still behind the curve and at least needs a price drop. I decided to get on Apple's site and build the iMac I would like to have - 3199 before tax! Seriously? So then, out of curiosity, I decided to see what I could throw another top-of-the-line PC together for. Um, yeah..not even close. Finalized my build this morning and pulled the trigger on the order about 45 minutes ago. I can't believe I was about to go with an iMac now! I have had so much fun putting this thing together. For barely over $2400, no tax or shipping, I have a machine that is superior to any iMac now or coming soon. Wireless keyboard and mouse, ASUS z77 Pro motherboard, i7 3770k ivy that I will oc to 4.2 - 4.4 ghz, Thermaltake closed loop pro cooler, Corsair 750w modular power supply, 16 gb of Corsair dominator platinum DDR3 2400 ram, EVGA 2GB GeForce GTX 660 Ti video card, Corsair 180GB SSD, 2 - 1TB WD mechanical drives, ASUS optical drive, Dell 24" ultrasharp LED backlit IPS monitor, Windows 7 Professional, Creative GigaWorks t40 speakers, 4-140mm fans, and a Fractal Design R4 Titanium case...

Now that I built this I feel so ignorant for thinking of switching to an iMac. My build from 4 years ago has had 0, and I mean ZERO issues. No crashing, no viruses, nothing. Not only do I get to enjoy designing a computer exactly as I want, I get to enjoy assembling it, I save money, and if I ever want to expand or change components I can. I still to this day have people "Wow!" over my 4 year old build. There really is no way for me to justify holding out for an iMac when I can have much better performance, versatility, save money, and take satisfaction in designing and building a PC. The only reason I was thinking of buying another iMac was because I like the clean look. That said, I will only have 3 wires with this build - 1 from the power supply, 1 from the monitor to the video card, and 1 from the speakers - all so easily hidden it's not even funny. I'm pumped - much more so than I would be if I had just ordered an iMac and pulled it out of the box. Of course i'm not lazy and actually enjoy doing this sort of thing.

Bottom line, you can have a superior PC for less money and enjoy the project. Screw waiting for Apple. With so many people wanting even a hint of a refreshed iMac so they can determine what they need to do, Apple should, in the best interest of their customers, provide some information about a refreshed iMac. Hopefully some of you will see the light, too.
 
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time spent?

rokmac said:
I have to admit that I was on the fence about switching to another iMac. I had one about 4 years ago and thought it was a pretty decent machine, but I missed the very familiar windows, the gaming options, the expandability and customization...long story short I built a high end PC that smoked the pants of the iMac I owned for 3 months and I built it for the same price...

Fast forward to today - the PC I built 4 years ago still runs like beast but I want to upgrade. For some odd reason I settled in my mind on an iMac about a month ago. Reading this forum and seeing that the current 2011 iMac is the same price it was a year and a half ago left me a little shocked. Very overpriced for relatively dated hardware. You can argue it still performs well, but it is still behind the curve and at least needs a price drop. I decided to get on Apple's site and build the iMac I would like to have - 3199 before tax! Seriously? So then, out of curiosity, I decided to see what I could throw another top-of-the-line PC together for. Um, yeah..not even close. Finalized my build this morning and pulled the trigger on the order about 45 minutes ago. I can't believe I was about to go with an iMac now! I have had so much fun putting this thing together. For barely over $2400, no tax or shipping, I have a machine that is superior to any iMac now or coming soon. Wireless keyboard and mouse, ASUS z77 Pro motherboard, i7 3770k ivy that I will oc to 4.2 - 4.4 ghz, Thermaltake closed loop pro cooler, Corsair 750w modular power supply, 16 gb of Corsair dominator platinum DDR3 2400 ram, EVGA 2GB GeForce GTX 660 Ti video card, Corsair 180GB SSD, 2 - 1TB WD mechanical drives, ASUS optical drive, Dell 24" ultrasharp LED backlit IPS monitor, Windows 7 Proffesional, Creative GigaWorks t40 speakers, 4-140mm fans, and a Fractal Design R4 Titanium case...

Now that I built this I feel so ignorant for thinking of switching to an iMac. My build from 4 years ago has had 0, and I mean ZERO issues. No crashing, no viruses, nothing. Not only do I get to enjoy designing a computer exactly as I want, I get to enjoy assembling it, I save money, and if I ever want to expand or change components I can. I still to this day have people "Wow!" over my 4 year old build. There really is no way for me to justify holding out for an iMac when I can have much better performance, versatility, save money, and take satisfaction in designing and building a PC. The only reason I was thinking of buying another iMac was because I like the clean look. That said, I will only have 3 wires with this build - 1 from the power supply, 1 from the monitor to the video card, and 1 from the speakers - all so easily hidden it's not even funny. I'm pumped - much more so than I would be if I had just ordered an iMac and pulled it out of the box. Of course i'm not lazy and actually enjoy doing this sort of thing.

Bottom line, you can have a superior PC for less money and enjoy the project. Screw waiting for Apple. With so many people wanting even a hint of a refreshed iMac so they can determine what they need to do, Apple should, in the best interest of their customers, provide some information about a refreshed iMac. Hopefully some of you will see the light, too.
Click to expand...

I see many posts here by those that brag about building a PC that's faster than a Mac for less money, but never have I seen it mentioned how much time is spent ordering parts, building it etc. not to mention the expense of new software.
If you enjoy doing that great, but I would rather spend 5 minutes online, get my computer in a couple of days and go to work. My time is worth something.
 
RUGERMAN said:
I see many posts here by those that brag about building a PC that's faster than a Mac for less money, but never have I seen it mentioned how much time is spent ordering parts, building it etc. If you enjoy doing that great, but I would rather spend 5 minutes online, get my computer in a couple of days and go to work. My time is worth something.
Click to expand...

I can order the computer in an evening and put it together in an evening. Considering the time spend researching a computer's parts so you know what you're getting, it doesn't really take much time at all.
 
I love building my new PC every couple of years. I'm the dude who goes apple for laptop and tablet (and phone every now and then) and also has a monster pc at my desk for games and all my math modeling software. It shreds.
 
ilifecomputer said:
I love building my new PC every couple of years. I'm the dude who goes apple for laptop and tablet (and phone every now and then) and also has a monster pc at my desk for games and all my math modeling software. It shreds.
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Like I said, if you enjoy that and you like the OS just as well great, most don't have that knowledge, time or inclination and/or like MAC OS much better. Btw do you already have software for both?
 
I don't blame you, i'm going the same way. My interest in Apple has slowly but surely diminished.
 
You guys building these machines rock. If they don't come out with something soon, I'm going to give it a shot! There is something cool about nailing it (yourself). AND, apple products are getting less and less stable as the years go by.

Like some (not most) of those in this thread, I'm familiar with both, but have always had a preference for one or the other. I was born of PC, but only because I couldn't afford a mac in the time before windows. By the time I could afford a mac, in the early 90's, the OS was so out-dated and windows was at least 'manageable', so I stuck with windows. When OSX came out, I jumped and was so glad I did - who wants manageable when things just worked. But the circle turns, and OSX feels increasingly old and outdated (frankly limiting), while windows 7 seems to deliver a lot more with yet more potential.

I really hope that they release a new imac soon. But even if they do, my bet is that this will probably be my last imac - they're simply coming to the end of their cycle.
 
RUGERMAN said:
I see many posts here by those that brag about building a PC that's faster than a Mac for less money, but never have I seen it mentioned how much time is spent ordering parts, building it etc. not to mention the expense of new software.
If you enjoy doing that great, but I would rather spend 5 minutes online, get my computer in a couple of days and go to work. My time is worth something.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to determine how much your time is worth considering you spend a portion of it cruising the Mac rumors forum. In the amount of time you spend needlessly browsing this forum for a week, you could easily have a custom PC.

Your post could be used to summarize our culture now. Rather than use a little brainpower doing some research and put forth a little more effort to have a higher performing machine, you would rather be done in 5 minutes. To each his own I suppose, but your time isn't that limited so don't give me that line of crap. I have a full-time job as an engineer for a chemical company, i'm a part-time photographer doing 2-5 shoots a week, and i'm in the Army Reserve. I spent 2 hours after my wife and son went to bed deciding what I wanted if I were to build a PC. This morning I went back through my selections and finalized the build. All said and done I have roughly 3 hours in the design/order. It will take probably another 3-4 hours putting it together. But you know what is really odd? I actually enjoy doing it. When you design (to an extent) a computer to every specification that you wish for and then put it together yourself, it is far more satisfying than being done in 5 minutes. I prefer to challenge my brain a little more than "27" or 21.5"?". I also enjoy having an expandable, faster machine at a cheaper price while enjoying the stimulation of designing and building. I realize that i'm in the minority and most people prefer to kick back in their skinny jeans and sip a carmel chocolate mint frappa decaf moccacinno while listening to their iPod and watching Twilight on their iPad at the mall, but there are, believe it or not, people that are not terrifyingly lazy. I'm sure your time is too valuable to respond to this, but I hope you at least get a chance to read it.
 
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