iWork '05 Productivity Suite?

[visor]

false, most likely, to take of the attention from the real secrets.

Iworks... i ask you - its on the list for 4 years...

 

[takao]

The Apple Keyboard and Mouse alone cost $100, so are we saying they can make money out of a $400 computer?

if i can buy a (non apple) keyboard and mouse for <35€ (both usb) then i'm pretty sure apple doesn't pay more than 50$ to produce their mice

 

[Sir_Giggles]

if i can buy a (non apple) keyboard and mouse for <35€ (both usb) then i'm pretty sure apple doesn't pay more than 50$ to produce their mice

Apple peripherals are grossly overpriced. Take for example their iPod docks. $39CDN? Omg, it's just a piece of 50 cent plastic, with a metal connector.

 

[SWC]

I disagree with your "If you don't want it don't use it" idea for IE. Why? IE is a SECURITY RISK. It's presence in Windows alone compromises the entire thing. With a normal browser, a hacker can comprise your passwords and identity at worst. With IE, they can take over the entire PC because IE is tied into the core of the OS. And IE has so many security holes that its easy.

Again, don't like it? don't use it. If its not running it can't be compromised. It has ties to the OS thats no secret but it can easily not be used and not running. IE isn't running as a basic part of the OS. IE is not the same as explorer.exe.

 

[SWC]

Negative, I did not say MS Office is dying off. By "dead in the water," I mean that it is not growing, nor shrinking. It can certainly be said that it has not changed or improved much in many iterations. However, it actually is on the verge of losing significant market share.

As OpenOffice prepares to launch 2.0 in about three months, MS Office is going to face very stiff competition for which it has no ready response. At the same time, the EU is about to declare OpenDocument its official required format for digital communications.

Note also how MS Office's price has dropped in response to OpenOffice (the educational pricing without any check into whether the purchaser really is a student, and the 90% discounts for the Thailand version). If the price of MS Office had merely remained constant, it would indicate a loss of market power, as a few years ago analysts were predicting the suite would rise to an average cost of $700!

Make no mistake, the reign of MS Office is coming to a close. Follow these and other indicators closely, and you cannot but come to the same conclusion.

Openoffice is a long way from being any real competition to MS Office, I understand you have to back it up because you sell it on cd but it's just not close to being a real competitor. The EU using it isn't a real big issue either. Theres govt's using linux but doesn't make a dent in the windows marketshare.

 

[SWC]

They could do for word processing like what they did with music. I don't know what yet, but I still feel word processors have a way to go.

Buy a competitor, change the name and call it an apple innovation?

But seriously, I love apple products and use them on a daily basis but fact of the matter is most of apples knock out applications have been bought FCP, Logic, iTunes, Shake etc. Only thing I wish they would change is they keep picking ease of use over features. They need to learn to balance the two a bit better, Sure its awesome when you have an app you can look at and know how to use but I want to be able to do more than the few functions i can see on the first screen.

As for iWork I am all for it but unless it supports ms office and flawlessly (probably have to use XML basis which the standard version of office can't save to) it won't make any headway that really matters. Even consumers need word sometimes and not and knockoff that uses a different format. Resumes etc. are required in doc format by a lot of companies. So even if it's not a direct competitor to Office/Word it still needs basic compatibility.

And on keynote, It's a great program and when you need a quick presentation that looks pretty than it's the way to go but it doesn't have the overall usefullness and features that powerpoint does. If all you care about is cube transitions etc. its great, it just needs to mature more. I think by 3.0 it will blow away powerpoint, its just not there yet it also needs a windows counterpart or better pp compatibility to make it a worthwhile contendor. Current compatibility is at best poor.

 

[GFLPraxis]

I'm going to get a laugh shooting you down.

First, Open Office is already available for Mac.

INCORRECTO! If you'd scrolled up and seen my previous post, you would have known this. But did you? Nope. OpenOffice only runs within X11, VERY slow. There is no Mac-native version, so only UNIX nerds can figure out how to run it.

Second... Ha! to the idea that MS makes more money off Mac users than Windows users... Ha!

I have no idea where you got that idea, or from witch bizzaro-world hat you pulled it out of, but I have a STRONG feeling that you're VERY wrong.

Ha. You have no idea how things work, do you.

Lets say you build your own computer, and buy Windows XP Home for $200 and install it.

Microsoft makes: $200.

Lets say you go to Dell and buy a Dell PC. Dell gets a discount from MS, therefore, MS gets about $100.

Lets say you go to Apple.com and buy a Mac.

Now you buy Virtual PC. $200 for MS.
Now you buy Windows XP Home. $200 for MS.

Microsoft makes: $400.

Furthermore, if you buy Microsoft Office for Mac they make even more.

Therefore, Microsoft makes more money off Mac users.

Ever stopped to think about it? If you buy a Dell PC, Dell makes the money from the PC, and MS makes the money from the OS. But if you buy a Mac and VPC, MS makes the money from the Virtual PC, AND the OS.

 

[superfunkomatic]

as GW Bush would say -"Bring it on". it's about time. if it works with all office (M$) formatted files - then i'm already sold. i'm sick of the ****** bloatware from microsoft on the mac. my girlfriend is a writer and uses the office suite all day - crashes for touching the mouse, saving, etc. - time for a something that works. frankly if it works and is compatible with word and excel stuff (completely) i'll use it.

 

[AidenShaw]

Windows XP = $90 at retail

Lets say you build your own computer, and buy Windows XP Home for $200 and install it.

Microsoft makes: $200.

Even ignoring the profits taken by the reseller, you're way off here....

The full version of XP Home (not upgrade) can be purchased in quantity one over the counter for $89.95 - all you need to do is to buy it with hardware (say, a USB cable) to qualify for the OEM price.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03R-SC

 

[GFLPraxis]

Again, don't like it? don't use it. If its not running it can't be compromised. It has ties to the OS thats no secret but it can easily not be used and not running. IE isn't running as a basic part of the OS. IE is not the same as explorer.exe.

That's not true when many things in the OS auto-launch IE, such as MSN. And explorer.exe shares a lot of the same problems.

Try this. Open internet explorer on a Windows PC. Type C:\. Watch what happens.

Or open an explorer window, and type a web page into it. Watch what happens.

 

[GFLPraxis]

Even ignoring the profits taken by the reseller, you're way off here....

The full version of XP Home (not upgrade) can be purchased in quantity one over the counter for $89.95 - all you need to do is to buy it with hardware (say, a USB cable) to qualify for the OEM price.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03R-SC

Interesting. Still, that means MS makes LESS money off non-Mac users

 

[2A Batterie]

I


Ha. You have no idea how things work, do you.

Lets say you build your own computer, and buy Windows XP Home for $200 and install it.

Microsoft makes: $200.

Lets say you go to Dell and buy a Dell PC. Dell gets a discount from MS, therefore, MS gets about $100.

Lets say you go to Apple.com and buy a Mac.

Now you buy Virtual PC. $200 for MS.
Now you buy Windows XP Home. $200 for MS.

Microsoft makes: $400.

Furthermore, if you buy Microsoft Office for Mac they make even more.

Therefore, Microsoft makes more money off Mac users.

Ever stopped to think about it? If you buy a Dell PC, Dell makes the money from the PC, and MS makes the money from the OS. But if you buy a Mac and VPC, MS makes the money from the Virtual PC, AND the OS.

You're not taking into account the fact that PC users greatly outnumber Mac users. Even if you're calculations are correct (MS makes $100 for each PC user vs. MS making $400 off each Mac user), it still make MS more money. Apple has a very small market share against PC's... it I think over 90% of users use PC's

 

[mattmack]

That's not true when many things in the OS auto-launch IE, such as MSN. And explorer.exe shares a lot of the same problems.

Try this. Open internet explorer on a Windows PC. Type C:\. Watch what happens.

Or open an explorer window, and type a web page into it. Watch what happens.

He is right the explore browser for XP (i love that emoticon) is IE so it is right to the heart of your computer and can not be removed from the computer. There is no replacement for it when you are exploring your hard drive and anything that is stored on it. It is a huge security hole that goes down to the very foundations of the windows os. You can not simply not use it

 

[macmax77]

I have my income tax program written in Excel. I have found no other spreadsheet that will handle the things that I do with Excel. I keep trying alternatives for the past 20 years & all I have to show for it is alot of paid bills for software that I could not use. Excel does have limitations, but not as many as the other spreadsheet programs.

If you can find one around that will handle what Excel does, I'm willing to give it a try. Word processors & presentation programs are one thing to replace. Spreadsheets are not stressed by many like they were in the old days of the Apple I &II, TRS-80 Model I & II, & the Heath-Kit H8 & H-89. AThe spreadsheet made them. With the Mac, MS has kept Excel just a little better than any other Mac spreadsheet. THus no one will spend the needed money to produce one that will really rival Excel.

Bill the TaxMan

I think, and i am almost positive that excel was done by Apple and then sold to Msft, then , why can't Apple come with anything better?

I am , as i said , almost positive of this, but correct me if i am wrong.

 

[GFLPraxis]

You're not taking into account the fact that PC users greatly outnumber Mac users. Even if you're calculations are correct (MS makes $100 for each PC user vs. MS making $400 off each Mac user), it still make MS more money. Apple has a very small market share against PC's... it I think over 90% of users use PC's

I meant that Apple makes more money per person from Mac users.

If you scroll back, my original point was that even if 90% of the world switched to Mac, Microsoft would not only still be in business, but thriving. The person I replied to thought that if Microsoft lost marketshare, they would take a hit.

 

[GFLPraxis]

I think, and i am almost positive that excel was done by Apple and then sold to Msft, then , why can't Apple come with anything better?

I am , as i said , almost positive of this, but correct me if i am wrong.

Naw, it was ripped off from somebody else, and RELEASED for Mac before MS made a Windows version.

 

[relimw]

INCORRECTO! If you'd scrolled up and seen my previous post, you would have known this. But did you? Nope. OpenOffice only runs within X11, VERY slow. There is no Mac-native version, so only UNIX nerds can figure out how to run it.

No need to act nasty, and you are wrong, there's NeoOffice which technically runs native (via java), without needing X11. NeoOffice

 

[macmax77]

Buy a competitor, change the name and call it an apple innovation?


Has Microsuck ever doen anything that is not bought or ROBBED from someone else?

 

[Spidermanjohn]

Buy a competitor, change the name and call it an apple innovation?


Has Microsuck ever doen anything that is not bought or ROBBED from someone else?

iMovie and FCP were created by another.

 

[GFLPraxis]

No need to act nasty, and you are wrong, there's NeoOffice which technically runs native (via java), without needing X11. NeoOffice

I'm not acting 'nasty'. The guy who I was replying to was laughing at me without bothering to do the research.

I saw NeoOffice, but that's even SLOWER than the X11 version (which takes several minutes to load on my 1 GHz PowerBook G4), and the GUI is still weird and not OS X-native.

 

[GFLPraxis]

Buy a competitor, change the name and call it an apple innovation?

Has Microsuck ever doen anything that is not bought or ROBBED from someone else?

I was going to post that too

Actually, they have. Remember the Paperclip? They thought of that themselves.

 

[CubaTBird]

i really hate to say this but i feel appleworks 6 suits me just swell... it does everything i need it too.. yea it looks a lil' tacky.. but hey.. it gets most of my essays and sci labs done

 

[pourhadi]

Negative, I did not say MS Office is dying off. By "dead in the water," I mean that it is not growing, nor shrinking. It can certainly be said that it has not changed or improved much in many iterations. However, it actually is on the verge of losing significant market share.

As OpenOffice prepares to launch 2.0 in about three months, MS Office is going to face very stiff competition for which it has no ready response. At the same time, the EU is about to declare OpenDocument its official required format for digital communications.

Note also how MS Office's price has dropped in response to OpenOffice (the educational pricing without any check into whether the purchaser really is a student, and the 90% discounts for the Thailand version). If the price of MS Office had merely remained constant, it would indicate a loss of market power, as a few years ago analysts were predicting the suite would rise to an average cost of $700!

Make no mistake, the reign of MS Office is coming to a close. Follow these and other indicators closely, and you cannot but come to the same conclusion.

Just because it'll have the functionality, that doesn't mean the market is going to fall in line.

It's all about perception -- No matter what OpenOffice does, the business guys and those in education and those simple home users will still go with MS Office because that's the program everyone knows, plain and simple.

A perfect similar situation is that of the Mac and Windows -- The Mac is clearly superior, yet Windows still maintains 95% of the market share, and though Mac may gain a little, it's not gonna dent much of MS's share.

Besides, talk to your average computer user (and even many above-average), and they'll give you a blank stare when you mention OpenOffice.

 

[sluthy]

Wow, reading 14 pages can really hurt your eyes after a while - might not try and tackle the other 1000 post thread then

Anyway, I think Document would be a much detter name then Pages, just sounds better. And don't go with any iName or MacName for the others either, except iWorks (like that name).
There was another post a couple of pages back about financial software, that might be really good, something for the average family (small businesses and professionals can get MYOB). Called Budget, perhaps?

Document (Word)
Spreadsheet? (Excel) - suggestions (something obtuse, like Keynote or GarageBand)? Just don't call it iSpread
Keynote (Powerpoint)
Budget (Quicken, MYOB)

Off topic, what does everyone here reckon is the best WMV/AVI viewer on the Mac? Because WMP for Mac is the bastard son of the Devil Also, can we finally have a database program like Access, please?

 

[savar]

You're not taking into account the fact that PC users greatly outnumber Mac users. Even if you're calculations are correct (MS makes $100 for each PC user vs. MS making $400 off each Mac user), it still make MS more money. Apple has a very small market share against PC's... it I think over 90% of users use PC's

I think his point was simply that MS ought not to care about mac share vs. PC share, because they can sell a mac user more software (in dollar terms) then to a windows user.

Of course, this conclusion is absurd as well, since MS Office is the de facto standard on Windows, whereas on the mac we have AppleWorks, which is a decent alternative. When I was a freshman, AppleWorks was $79 (academic) and Office was over $300. Hard choice, huh? Plus, Office is the only MS product left on my mac..i don't need any of that crap (like their new spyware removal tool) that they're selling to windows users. Why does the OP assume that every mac user NEEDS a copy of VPC? Even on a dual 2.5, VPC is unbearably slow. I just got a $50, used Dell with Win98 for those things that demand a PC. (I'm fiddling with embedded development in my spare time)

I ended up stealing a copy of Office, however, since a lot of professors make documents available only in .doc format, and MS doesn't even have the courtesy to release a free viewer. (And AppleWorks blows the formatting so badly when it converts that some documents are unusable.) But fear not, my mom and I are buying the Academic version of Office 2004 which comes with three licenses.