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My biggest problem was the characterization- they were all archetypes with no depth whatsoever:

Military guy
Business guy
Scientist
Unlikely hero
Love interest

They spent all that money on effects, couldn't they have paid the writers a little more for something better? This was paint-by-numbers.

But it had to be, you don't spend that much money on a 'epic' film, only to run with something other than a bog standard hollywood narrative, it would be a crazy gamble that could've lost them money.

Titanic was exactly the same, there was something for everyone to guarantee a large audience, a romantic love interest and fast paced action, Avatar is no different, if anyone did expect anything different, they are sadly delusional of Cameron's work.
 
My biggest problem was the characterization- they were all archetypes with no depth whatsoever:

Military guy
Business guy
Scientist
Unlikely hero
Love interest

They spent all that money on effects, couldn't they have paid the writers a little more for something better? This was paint-by-numbers.

I agree with you on this. I wanted to walk out but my little brother was so into the movie. It was a very painful 3 hours for me. At least he liked it, that's all that matters to me.
 
But it had to be, you don't spend that much money on a 'epic' film, only to run with something other than a bog standard hollywood narrative, it would be a crazy gamble that could've lost them money.

Wrong. The first Star Wars movie gave all the characters very well-rounded backgrounds for a film of that genre. Those characters were well fleshed out and had a decent amount of depth and personality. The plot may have been standard, but the characters were three dimensional. I mean, we even got backgrounds on two robots and knew some of their history, and as a result, could empathize with them. It can be done and appeal to a mass audience. Cameron simply chose not to do it.
 
Wrong. The first Star Wars movie gave all the characters very well-rounded backgrounds for a film of that genre. Those characters were well fleshed out and had a decent amount of depth and personality. The plot may have been standard, but the characters were three dimensional. It can be done and appeal to a mass audience. Cameron simply chose not to do it.

True, that was a case of brilliant writing set inside a CHN, but also in that case, the theme of freedom vs oppression was much more relevant because of the lead female protagonist, where as in Avatar, we have the typical butch (I'm assuming republican) male protagonist, which offers much less of a writing opportunity, aside from the obvious 'Pro-war to then peace keeper' character development that they ran with, which don't get me wrong was so bloody obvious from the start I wanted to bang my head against the chair in front, which has been done so many times over (and to a much better effect) with films like Apocalypse Now! and Full Metal Jacket.
 
Wrong. The first Star Wars movie gave all the characters very well-rounded backgrounds for a film of that genre. Those characters were well fleshed out and had a decent amount of depth and personality. The plot may have been standard, but the characters were three dimensional. I mean, we even got backgrounds on two robots and knew some of their history, and as a result, could empathize with them. It can be done and appeal to a mass audience. Cameron simply chose not to do it.

You really couldn't empathize with anyone in Avatar or find a "decent amount of depth and personality"? I mean Cameron created and entirely new world, populated it with strange creatures and plant life, told an epic story, changed the film industry and raised the bar of what a sci-fi epic should/could be, and in the process grossed over 2 Billion dollars -- the most successful film EVER. I'm supposed to believe you when you say "It can be done and appeal to a mass audience. Cameron simply chose not to do it." Uhh, Dude?
 
You really couldn't empathize with anyone in Avatar or find a "decent amount of depth and personality"? I mean Cameron created and entirely new world, populated it with strange creatures and plant life, told an epic story, changed the film industry and raised the bar of what a sci-fi epic should/could be, and in the process grossed over 2 Billion dollars -- the most successful film EVER. I'm supposed to believe you when you say "It can be done and appeal to a mass audience. Cameron simply chose not to do it." Uhh, Dude?
Just it's because it's well liked doesn't make it a good movie. If the majority of drones decided what art was good and what was bad we'd be swimming in comedy films and porn.
 
You really couldn't empathize with anyone in Avatar or find a "decent amount of depth and personality"? I mean Cameron created and entirely new world, populated it with strange creatures and plant life, told an epic story, changed the film industry and raised the bar of what a sci-fi epic should/could be, and in the process grossed over 2 Billion dollars -- the most successful film EVER. I'm supposed to believe you when you say "It can be done and appeal to a mass audience. Cameron simply chose not to do it." Uhh, Dude?

I'm sorry- there was absolutely no intimate history made available about any of the characters. There was almost no history about any of the individuals told at all. In short, there was nothing to latch onto. For example, we knew the main character's brother died, but yet we knew nothing of their relationship beforehand. He didn't even talk about it at all. So it was an afterthought and really didn't matter. There was no need to even mention it. They did nothing with it.

We knew even less about the Navi. There was a chance to really tap into some great mythology and history there. Instead, we got barely any information about them or their relationships to each other. We got fluff instead. I would have loved to know about the one Navi girl's brother and their history. But we got no insight into their relationship whatsoever. Her parents were completely inconsequential. I didn't give a rat's ass if they bit the dust. Again, there was nothing to latch onto. We were told nothing about them or even their roles in the Navi culture.

So what if it made a lot of money? Romantic comedies make lots of money. Does that make them good? Really? This is no different. Great sci fi films have lots of depth and great characters. This just scratched the surface and ddin't bother to say anything about the people themselves. I love 3D and great special effects too. But we deserve more than that.

Just it's because it's well liked doesn't make it a good movie. If the majority of drones decided what art was good and what was bad we'd be swimming in comedy films and porn.

Thank you.
 
But it had to be, you don't spend that much money on a 'epic' film, only to run with something other than a bog standard hollywood narrative, it would be a crazy gamble that could've lost them money.....

The narrative isn't, as Lee argues, the problem. While the narrative is basically one of the John Campbell Mythic Character Kits™ the characters remain, even after three hours, those archetypes.

Ironically, Cameron has used many of these characters—and even actors—before in Aliens, who explored the same para-military themes, but which used deeper characterization to tell the story in a more efficient way.
By the first 20 minutes of Aliens, we understand that Lt. Gorman is new and untested; the sergeant used to an outfit that's barely in control; Hudson is a bit of a coward, but uses his mouth to hide his fear; Hicks is apathetic; and there's the nice bit of sly dialogue that tells you everything you need to know about the relationship between the two 'smart-gun' operators. The movie has also told you the situation and let you know that despite everything, things are going to go very, very badly.

And Aliens isn't exactly Oscar-bait, but it manages to allow its characters room enough to act and breathe, while moving quickly from each action-packed set-piece. By the end, Gorman makes a brave-decision and sacrifice, Carter remains unchanged but pays for his mistakes, Ripley turns to face the creature rather than running and Hudson stands his ground.

However, in Avatar, very little changes in the characters. Rather, Jake Scully gets a new skill-set and "learns to love."

Avatar is an incredible ride, but The Hurt Locker has an emotional impact that Avatar does not. I would argue that District 9 is at least as good as The Hurt Locker and that Up's first 10 minutes should become the new standard for sleek story-telling. Sans dialogue Up tells the life-story of a couple in a few minutes. Avatar takes three hours of THX-sound and 3D-fury and fails to make its characters real. Pandora, however, feels like it was almost there.
 
that Up's first 10 minutes should become the new standard for sleek story-telling. Sans dialogue Up tells the life-story of a couple in a few minutes.

I agree. That was the most effective montage I think I have ever seen in film.
 
I agree. That was the most effective montage I think I have ever seen in film.

It's good to see that Up received an Academy Award for animation, but I'm still not sure that Up and movies like it are relegated to their own little ghetto because of the manner of their storytelling. Up was a great movie, adult in its considerations and thoughtful in its characterization.
 
Avatar in 3D gave me a headache. I left half way through the movie. Far too fast for me, I'll just stick to my old 2D films thanks.
 
I'm kinda glad the hurt locker won over avatar, IMO once a movie is almost 100% digital they'res nothing to get impressed of since everything is perfect and I hope you don't kill me nor call me ignorant for that opinion, I undersand how hard it is to make and how realistic those animations are

the hurt locker prooved that avatar was just hype, the story a tuned unoriginal one about a stranger which falls in love with someone from another community

EDIT: I also hated how they advertised it as " From the director of titanic" that's just a way to get people to the cinema
 
If you think about it avatar is exactly like titanic
the human guy is like DiCaprio in titanic (from another world of the poor)
the girl the same story

and the best par is that their magic tree also breaks and the titanic sinks

that doesn't mean that some shots aren't beautiful in both movies
 
having a nearly 100% computer made movie win the best cinematoghraphy award sure borders on the comical.. seriously winning out against "the white ribbon" ? it sure shows how politics still play a role in hollywood
 
having a nearly 100% computer made movie win the best cinematoghraphy award sure borders on the comical...

It certainly raises an interesting question about what cinematography really is...

Is it just the ability to operate a movie camera? Is it about selecting the film stock? Is it about matching the lens to the shot?

Or is it about camera movement, angle, perspective, and framing?

If it's leaning more towards this latter group, I would argue that "cinematography" is just as important in a CGI movie as in a traditional one.
 
MSNBC:

In the meantime, “Avatar” will make a return to theaters in August with an extra six minutes of footage, with the DVD arriving this Thursday — just in time for Earth Day, a cause close to Cameron’s heart.

So on a day when we honor the planet we know, James Cameron wants us to spend money on one he made up.

Earth Day is a cause close to his wallet, not his heart.

mt
 
MSNBC:



So on a day when we honor the planet we know, James Cameron wants us to spend money on one he made up.

Earth Day is a cause close to his wallet, not his heart.

mt

Normally I'd roll my eyes and tell you to make a sign for the Thursday release, but I have to really agree here. Nevertheless, my copy is on order with BB and I'll pick it up tomorrow. Hoping I can skip working at night to watch it.
 
There is a directors cut due some time around the Holidays too my bros gonna pick up the one that comes out on thursday since he doesnt care for specail features really and does not have a blu ray player but he's gonna get the Combo pack since its 19.99 at target and let me have the blu ray to hold me off till the eventual set comes out in November I just wanna be able to know if this is the 3D set to if there will be a non 3D option to
 
So on a day when we honor the planet we know, James Cameron wants us to spend money on one he made up.

Earth Day is a cause close to his wallet, not his heart.

Please. Considering how poorly we treat the Earth I can think of many people and organizations other than James Cameron who deserve your cynicism.
 
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