Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone

[Timo_Existencia]

1. Mac has always supported third party stores/transactions.

Irrelevant. And we could debate this point ad nauseam. It's a red herring. I prefer a walled garden, and have chosen that for my mobile device. You can think my choice is silly, but it's still my choice.

Chances are very good that those writing "company store" lines about how terrible this is from a security perspective probably have at least one app- if not more- on their own Macs

Sure. But only when I was unable to download it from the Mac App store. I'd still prefer that app developers be forced to follow the standards for privacy and data collection that are a part of Apple's ethos. My choice.

And with iCloud synching keychains- and thus passwords- the risk of evil entities exploiting the apparent massive security hole in Mac having more than one store means the great wave of crime & devastation would have been obliterating us Mac people the entire time there's been Macs. Where is all that trouble? Crime? Account emptying? Death of firstborn? Plague & pestilence? 4 Horsemen galloping?

You're using hyperbole to downplay a real and valid concern. Privacy and security are reasons I choose to buy Apple products over their competition. That's my choice. And Apple chooses to focus on that as a business model. You saying this has no bearing on the discussion doesn't make it true. It's true for me. My choice.

2. The EU experiment is now 3.5 months in play..

Not even near close enough to draw any conclusions. And the larger point is the spread of these laws around the globe, wherein Apple loses the ability to set standards for App development that many of us prefer. When the walled garden is crushed, we can have the discussion about consequences.

Wake up friends.

I'm wide awake. Thanks. And able to make my own decisions on they type of operating system and app stores I prefer. I wish you'd respect mine and other's decisions in a market in which you, too, are free to make such choices.

 

[icanhazmac]

Look at Android, this hasn’t happened. Despite there being other app stores, apps are always almost listed on Google Play.

What you describe isn’t going to happen.

I have said this many times:

It hasn't happened YET because TODAY companies could only open an Android store. If alt-stores are forced on Apple world-wide then the likes of Amazon, Epic, Meta, Steam, etc. will gladly open their own Mobile stores and move their own apps to it exclusively and begin paying big name apps to move there exclusively. As others have stated, this makes the iOS store model mirror MacOS. How many apps are not on the MacOS store? I would say the majority. Personally, I would prefer that MacOS mirrored iOS in this regard, not the other way around.

What we all lose in this:

• A one stop shop for apps, literally everything under one roof.
• Ease of app comparison, all under one roof instead of relying on 50 web tabs, one for each app.
• Single payment processor. This is a numbers game, if all my payments happen via Apple I am less likely to suffer from the all to common "data breach". If I have to have numerous store accounts and accounts with indie devs that go it alone on their own sites, the chances of a breach increase with every single one. This is evident on the PC and Mac were we need to sign up an pay on dev web sites.
• One stop for customer service
• One stop for app updates
• Data scorecards. Do you honestly believe that devs will submit data scorecards on the other stores? LOL. Data collection practices will be hidden behind 100 pages of legalese.

The likes of the above mentioned companies know that owning the store is the best way to hoover your data, that is what this is all about from their prospective.

I don't care what store I got it from, it's the app and the company I trust. The store is irrelevant.

The store is the one you need to give all your data to, how can it be irrelevant? They, and their payment processor, get your payment info!

So you are ok with being required to "sign up" for and Epic store account because a game you bought 3 years ago now signed up with Epic as an exclusive distributor? I'm not, I want nothing to do with Epic.

No one goes outside the App Store.

Until exclusive agreements begin to enter the marketplace and they will. It happens in brick and mortar all the time and will follow into the digital marketplaces as well. Eventually, IMHO, the iOS store will become as watered down as the MacOS store.

 

[MilaM]

Who decides reasonable? Seems to me that a dominant grouping of consumers already decided that Apple was not only reasonable, but preferable.

Customers can't really choose. There are only two stores for apps that have any meaningful market share. It's either App Store/Play Store or no apps for you.

 

[SactoGuy18]

This is why I think Apple may implement what I suggested: allow multiple app stores inside the App Store app in iOS/iPadOS.

 

[CapitalIdea]

The store is a middleman between me and the app I'm using.

The hardware and OS is useless without applications. All they (hardware and OS) do is facilitate my access to the applications and services I want to use.

I recall iPhones being perfectly capable of functioning before the App Store was introduced.

 

[gnipgnop]

Another thread filling with a bunch of security nonsense. Once again, I'll point out 2 simple facts:

1. Mac has always supported third party stores/transactions. Chances are very good that those writing "company store" lines about how terrible this is from a security perspective probably have at least one app- if not more- on their own Macs they've purchased and installed from third parties. If so, they already know how absolutely devastating that freedom of choice is vs. only being able to get Mac apps from ONE store run by the richest company on Earth.

----

2. The EU experiment is now 3.5 months in play... that is the law went into effect well over 3 months ago. How much devastation from all this insanity have we seen from our EU friends and in the media? Has there been ONE story of somebody's accounts being drained by the evil crime syndicates? Has there been one story of a trojan or virus or ransomware specifically getting at iDevices because of the EU law?

The Mac is a different product with legacy expectations for how software distribution works. Mac/Windows computers existed long before digital stores were possible. Apple developed the iPhone/iOS at a time when digital stores became possible and Apple knew what the shortcomings were for desktop style distribution.

As for the EU, they always claimed that the primary purpose was increasing competition. They totally ignored the security aspect because it undermined their claims about lack of competition, i.e., Apple always said that privacy/security was a competitive sales strategy that their customers liked.

 

[spinedoc77]

Just open it up already Apple, you can't avoid the inevitable.

 

[CapitalIdea]

Customers can't really choose. There are only two stores for apps that have any meaningful market share. It's either App Store/Play Store or no apps for you.

They chose those two over the failed attempts by Symbian, Microsoft, Meta and others. It seems the governments just want to force everyone to artificially support businesses that don’t naturally exist.

 

[bradman83]

I wish that 3rd party stores didn't exist. I'm not saying that I only want apps from the Apple App Store, I just don't want to deal with 3rd party stores. It should be Apple Store, or download the app from their website using your phone. The one exception would be games, I don't mind Steam Store or Epic, but I don't want that for apps.

I actually agree with this sentiment. What most people who are for opening up the walled garden really want is the ability to sideload apps directly from the developer, just like they do on macOS. They want the ability to run programs Apple currently won't allow like virtualization software (hello running macOS on iPad via Parallels). Somehow this got sidetracked into "you need to be on a third party app store to install apps not on the Apple App Store."

 

[nt5672]

Welcome to your security and performance nightmare Japan.

The only reason for this to be a security nightmare is if you think that Apple's marketing of privacy and security benefits is marketing BS only and does not really work.

 

[mjs916]

Apple just opened the gate themselves by adding ChatGPT to the OS.

I guess it is only fine when it’s competitors you can’t compete with but everyone they directly compete with is a bad idea and a „security risk“.

I call it hypocrisy

We don’t know the terms of the deal but Tim Cook stated that it’s all on device until it is probably better served by OpenAI. You have a choice to continue or not, every time. Sounds to me like they are taking this angle:

….
Mossberg: But aren’t you also going to be moving more into cloud-based things?

Jobs: Are we going to be moving more into cloud-based things? Sure. But —

Mossberg: Doesn’t that inevitably intr —

Jobs: No! Privacy means that people know what they’re signing up for. In plain English, and repeatedly. That’s what it means.​

I’m an optimistic, I believe that people are smart. Some people want to share more than others. Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data.
….

 

[strongy]

What turned out great?

looks like they don't know the EU market got screwed, some of the same apps free to the rest of the world have a subscription cost in the EU because they are only available via 3rd party stores and they were like apps would never leave the app store nope well they did and now they get charged for them.

 

[bradman83]

They chose those two over the failed attempts by Symbian, Microsoft, Meta and others. It seems the governments just want to force everyone to artificially support businesses that don’t naturally exist.

Governments are forcing Apple to give other app stores the ability to compete. They're not forcing users to use them.

If Epic's store is an abysmal disaster and they come crawling back to the App Store (which is exactly what happened on Android) then that's the market at work, the point is you have to allow the competition in the first place.

 

[MilaM]

The end of this saga is going to be, that Apple and Google have to divest from the app store business. It's going to take a couple of years, but the way they are behaving right now, I don't see another solution.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Governments are forcing Apple to give other app stores the ability to compete. They're not forcing users to use them.

If Epic's store is an abysmal disaster and they come crawling back to the App Store (which is exactly what happened on Android) then that's the market at work, the point is you have to allow the competition in the first place.

Let me introduce you to a little-known operating system called Android. That's the competition Apple faces.

 

[contacos]

looks like they don't know the EU market got screwed, some of the same apps free to the rest of the world have a subscription cost in the EU because they are only available via 3rd party stores and they were like apps would never leave the app store nope well they did and now they get charged for them.

That’s because the EU is taking it’s long ass time now until they come to the conclusion that Apples current implementation or „rule book“ is not sufficient and they won’t be allowed to charge them for each install and all that nonsense anymore

 

[gnipgnop]

Governments are forcing Apple to give other app stores the ability to compete. They're not forcing users to use them.

If Epic's store is an abysmal disaster and they come crawling back to the App Store (which is exactly what happened on Android) then that's the market at work, the point is you have to allow the competition in the first place.

Competition in mobile doesn't really have that much to do with the stores. That's also largely true for consoles and desktops as well. The competitive focus is mainly on updates to hardware, OS and apps.

 

[nt5672]

All I'm going to say about this whole topic is this:

I have always preferred Apple's closed eco system since I first used a Mac in 1986. I will continue to use it unless I have a reason not to.

I agree. But let's look at macOS, I have zero macOS App Store installs. Why? Because I use utilities that are not allowed under Apple's nanny rules.

Let's look at iOS. The first app I would install is a real firewall so that when bad apps get past Apple failed app review process I can block any data going to and from countries I consider outside of my use-case.

I would also install other troubleshooting apps that Apple's nanny rules don't allow.

There is a real use-case for side loading. Just because someone only tweets and emails, does not mean that an Apple iPhone cannot be more useful to those that know more. Instead the iPhone is dumbed down to teenagers and other low level knowledge people. But those in the know, know that this is nothing more than a marketing ploy.

 

[MilaM]

Let me introduce you to a little-known operating system called Android. That's the competition Apple faces.

There are hundreds of other reasons why you choose one phone (OS) over the other. Why should one specific (the store system) be the decisive one? It does not make sense. You can't pick and choose features from the different ecosystems as a customer.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

At the core of many arguments here is the idea of one-world-governance. Many of you are so convinced that the way YOU want Apple to operate is the only valid way that any company should operate. So you want to impose a single-global standard on App development and sales.

I don't want a single, globalized standard as to how digital markets should be constructed. I want the choice to be mine. You want to take that choice away from me for the fantasy of uniform equality! But what you're really only doing is backing mega corporations who operate differently than Apple. Right now, among the major players in the digital market, Apple is the only one with an approach that counters data collection and champions privacy concerns. All the rest rely on data, engagement and making you the product in order to make money. And for some reason that escapes me, many of you are on board with weakening Apple and strengthening Meta, Google and Microsoft.

Which is fine, for you, as long as YOU want your data and privacy to be treated that way. But why you think you must insist that I don't have that choice baffles me. You really can use Android. It's not just a silly talking point. You really can choose differently.

Leave my choice alone.

 

[nt5672]

If the store is irrelevant, why force 3rd party stores?

Because of Apple's nanny App Store rules.

 

[PlayUltimate]

The "monopoly" of the US cable TV market has been broken through the increased use of streaming. This occurred without the intervention of the US Gov't. But my more salient point is that for many consumers, the cost of TV has gone up due to increased fragmentation. We will eventually see if this is a opening up of the App Store is a thing. Regardless, Apple will find a way to profit from this. (and the $99 dev fee comes nowhere close to covering Apple's costs)

 

[jimbobb24]

Not in Japan but see the writing on the wall. It was good while it lasted. Now there will be no walled garden for people who didnt want Android. Sad.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

There are hundreds of other reasons why you choose one phone (OS) over the other. Why should one specific (the store system) be the decisive one? It does not make sense. You can't pick and choose features from the different ecosystems as a customer.

Every choice we make has trade-offs. You pick and choose based on your own hierarchy of values.

But asking government to force your choice onto me is a whole different argument.

 

[gnipgnop]

Because of Apple's nanny App Store rules.

Use Android instead if you don't like Apple's rules.

IMO, that's what government should have focused on. Google says Android is "open". Great. Make sure that they're following their own marketing and allowing people to do what an "open" system would be capable of. Apple says iOS is "closed" and that everyone gets a level playing field as a result. Great. Make sure that what Apple is saying about the level playing field is true.