Says a person asking Government to force Apple to operate differently, against what many of us have freely chosen. Seems to me you're the one asking the nanny to protect you. Remember, Apple doens't have the force of armies and courts to convince you to choose them. So if you're going to talk about "nannies" let's remember that Government is THE nanny.
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Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone
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These days Android, which is not more secure out of the box, can be made much more secure than an iPhone.
So yes, I am in the process of moving away from Apple as more secure options exist.
You are 100% correct. The idea that we will not all be dragged into using outside apps is completely disingenuous. What happens when you school, your bank, your kids baseball team starts using apps outside the app store. Everyone will be forced, for all practical intents, off the app store. Choice is gone except in the sense that you have a choice not to pay taxes. Sure you just have to have no income and possessions...but you can do it. In this case sure you just need to only use stock apple apps but it's your choice....wink wink.
If there was a vibrant competition in the mobile OS space, I would agree with you. But there is not. It's a duopoly, and every economist will tell you, that a duopoly leads to overreach by corporations. That is the situation we are in now.
GREAT!!!!! So move on. I respect your choice and am not asking the nanny government to force you to use Apple's walled garden. See how that works?
There you go: competition.
No, every economist will NOT tell you that. You simply made that up. There is much disagreement about this topic.
Right now, be thankful we at least have a duopoly in the choice of an open system or a closed system. You're asking governments to take away the competition to Android's open approach. Once that is done, there will be no other choice in contrast to Android.
Let me make my choice for my own reasons. You can make yours.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I didn't say this choice is silly. The ONE App Store will live on. These laws do not close it. That's CHOICE: buy from Apple's store or- in some cases- buy elsewhere. And if some app important to someone exits the App Store and thus loses massive, majority exposure to a world long since accustomed to getting apps only from that store (AKA shoot themselves in the revenue foot) but someone wants to buy from only one store, there are seemingly a dozen "clones" of just about every app in the store.
If we want to buy from one place, we can vote by dumping apps that leave the store and embracing those that stay. Those that leave buy have some standout feature will be great opportunities for clones who stay to come up with their own variation of that feature to try to woo those who CHOOSE to only buy from the one store.
These laws change nothing for you then. Continue buying from the one store and continue enjoying whatever is forced upon developers selling in that one store.
I didn't say it has no bearing... I simply pointed out that for all the certainty "we" spin about the security disaster doesn't seem to be showing itself at all... not 3.5 months in at the EU. Else, all this crime/virus/trojans/ransoms are apparently conspiring to WAIT to commit their crimes/evil/wrongdoing.
If the villagers show up with the boy cries wolf and there is actually wolf, then all if fine and good: very real security threat on the flock is warranted and addressed. However, how many times (how many months) until we start questioning all this security spin? Is that 6 months of no wolf? 12 months? We're pretty far in now on the USB-C port "forced" by these terrible laws that would result in an insane amount of iPhone port repairs. Where is all that all this time later? And in that answer, find how I expect all the "doomsday" security spin to play out after the same amount of time passes in the EU and now Japan.
Else, if third party stores/transaction does result in some kind of mass doomsday- as thoroughly predicted by Apple and thus Apple fans- Apple product owners will quickly learn to NOT buy from "unsecure" sources. Show us the wolf! Apparently it is a massively big bad wolf ready to take down whole countries or groups of countries. Show us. Let's see it and then we can take this spin more seriously. Else, it seems we're just playing a game of "towing the company line."
The walled garden won't be crushed. It is thoroughly, thoroughly established. Many people will NEVER choose to buy apps from any other source because they are accustomed to thinking App Store for apps and/or buy ideas like "security" and "privacy" etc. If one likes an experience, they tend to seek out more of that experience. If people like getting apps from the App Store and only from the App Store, they'll keep doing that.
These laws do not forbid or close the App Store- only create other stores for software that customers can optionally choose to shop... just like Mac app stores. People who wish to buy from Apple's buy there. Those who want/like to shop around can shop around. And if app sellers opt to bail on the Apple App Store, they are bailing on massive exposure to a whole world accustomed to looking for apps there... thus shooting themselves in the revenue foot for pulling their product for sale from the biggest, farthest reaching iDevice App Store in the world.
My guess: those who opt to go- even the big boys- will quickly feel the drop in revenue and opt to return. I could pull my widget from Walmart & Amazon for whatever reason, but if the whole world is used to finding my kind of product there, my competitors will sop up my revenue share that came from those massive stores. App makes like maximizing sales too. They likely don't do that by disappearing from the store where the bulk of the world shops.
And good for you that you can make your own decisions. That's the heart of the message: consumer CHOICE. I fully respect consumer choice and if people want to buy from ANY store, I respect their choices. Where consumers have no choice, there is nowhere else to turn but ONE store. That's NO consumer choice. Open it up as it is in the EU and soon to be Japan and consumers happy with the ONE store can keep shopping there... but other customers that might want to shop around for better pricing or Mac "10 apps for $1" bundles, etc will have the CHOICE to do that too. To me, that seems much better than having NO choice with ONE and only one company store.
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First what I want in no way changes anything with respect to your "freely chosen" blind devotion to Apple.
I am not sure how my wanting freedom to choose is "you're the one asking the nanny to protect you".
While, "that Government is THE nanny" is certainly true, I have no choice when dealing with the government. I do have a choice and opinion about dealing with Apple.
Let me count what I have at my home for example.
18 home game consoles, 24 handheld consoles.
On the other hand, 6 smartphones.
Ask any gamer, and they would disagree with your statement as most of them would have far more consoles than smartphones. It is not even on the same scale.
Nope that ignores the fact that there is no reason for Apple to enforce the nanny rules it does. I paid for my device and should be able to use it how I see fit.
I am sure you'd be happy to purchase cars that could only be driven to safe areas. You know to protect you and your potential poor decision making. That actually sounds a lot worse than having open choices. This is what you are advocating for phones. Does not make a lot of sense.
It's not like only one country came to the conclusion of the DMA alone. One after the other is following with similar laws. Do you think they are all stupid and misguided? That the premises are based on some kind of hysteria?
Android phones launched in 2009 so consumers have had choice versus Apple's method since that time. The reality is that IF the Android approach was really that superior commercially to iOS then Apple would have eventually needed to adopt the open approach as well. But that didn't happen. Both approaches were commercially successful.
And how about families who have one or more smartphones per family member and zero consoles?
Not if you have your way, right? I mean, you don't want these laws passed in just the EU and Japan, you want these laws to exist globally. There is a tipping point at which the walled garden approach, my choice, will not exist if what you are advocating for happens. Once it's feasible for META to bypass Apple's strict rules on data collection and privacy, they'll jump ship. And there are apps that I am forced to use today, such as WhatsApp, that will no longer have the protections that Apple forces on META.
You're simply closing your eyes and ears to this argument.
Again, up until the point that your desire has been forced on Apple in enough of the world to destroy the walled garden approach that I prefer. It's disingenuous of you to argue that nothing will change when you want to see this forced upon Apple globally.
3.5 months, in one geographic location in the world, when what you are advocating for is a global ban on Apple's walled garden. Do you see the problem in you concluding that nothing has changed yet?
I'm not worried so much about small time criminals hiding in the dark. I'm worried about the big players, Meta, Google, OpenAI, Micorosoft and...wait for it...Government overreach such as the EU forcing your choice on me, rather than letting me choose a walled garden. Again, you're trying to minimize the real concerns about privacy and security. It may not mean much to you, but it does to me. And I'm not trying to force you to live in my walled garden by asking governments to play nanny to your decisions. You're free to choose differently.
Grant me that same right and respect.
They're also coming to the conclusion that their own homegrown tech companies aren't subject to the rules.
EXACTLY!!!! You already have a choice. Leave the nanny-state out of it.
It's not OK when governments try to regulate technology platforms that they don't understand.
Like the EU.
I have more than 1 smartphone per family member here.
Like I said, that is an example. My game console count is 7 times of the smartphone count.
On the other hand, how many people who actually use their smartphone from more than 10 years ago?
I still play on my Sega Dreamcast, Sony Playstation 2, and even the PSP.
If you think that there is really a material difference between the App Store or the Play Store, I think you are misguided. Google wields as much power and influence over their part the marketplace for apps as Apple. In theory, you can already today have third-party stores on Android. But there is a reason why they are not thriving. The technical obstacles Google has created are enormous. Do some research about Play Services and how they work.
Then the only choice is to move to the United States. It's likely the last country to enact such laws, for different reasons. Shop for the jurisdiction you like the most. You have a choice!!
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Legacy or not, it still works just fine... and should work equally fine on other form-factor "computers." Those happy with a lone company store and/or viewing one choice as being superior, more secure, better, etc can keep right on using that one superior-in-every-way store. Other consumers feeling differently (at least others in the EU and Japan) can opt- if they like- to shop around... as they do with their Macs.
And that's great. And for all the people who buy the concepts in that strategy know to keep right on shopping in the one and only one "secure" store. If feeling any doubt, customers buy from the one store. On the the hand, those who own a Mac and have apps from other sources likely have an idea that apps can be procured from other sources- such as direct from the app developers- and not destroy their lives. So those people can opt to CHOOSE to take their chance on getting their apps from other sources.
Could buying elsewhere result in disaster? Yes. Could buying some app from the App Store result in disaster? Yes. However, after the wall of worry spin about iDevice security has been spun for > 2 years now as these select laws have been implemented and now put into effect, let's see all the warning play out.
I live in Florida. We get hurricane warnings many days in advance. Almost every time, the hurricane actually shows up and does its damage. In 20+ years, I don't recall any hurricane warning being spun and no hurricane showing up. EU law has been implemented for 3.5 months now. I haven't seen one security hurricane story tied to this change in 3.5 months. I haven't even seen a tropical storm-level story. Has it even lightly rained related security issues in the EU in 3.5 months?
It won't take long until 3.5 months is 6 months.... and then another few blinks and it will be a full year. If we don't see massive big bad wolf event(s), do we ever come to realize that maybe all this security spin was just that: spin? I know it's hard to imagine a very rich corporation spinning a hard-to-refute line (security is always a stellar one) to protect a very lucrative and easy source of money... but perhaps it might- just might- be about protecting a cash cow.
That's TBD. But, I'd guess that after 3.5 months, the EU would be completely devastated by now. I read a thousand posts about how the evil crime syndicates were all lined up ready to empty everyone's bank accounts, brick all iPhones, ransomeware them, etc... and yet... I haven't even seen ONE story about that yet. Very, very patient crime syndicates? Crime syndicates that don't want that apparently very easy money? TBD.
In the meantime, let's see more threads about other countries "forcing" normal competition and we can fill those full of "OMG- security disaster", "doom for <country>, etc" as time keeps passing and where it's already in place not playing out the doom. Where is the doom? Any doom? Any doom at all.
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No one is saying you have to install these other app stores on your phone. But the rest of us would like choices too. Right now Civ 6 is $2.99 on steam, $59.99 on the Apple store. There is nothing "free market" about thousands of dollars of hardware lock-in.
Apple deserves the government attention for abusing their power at the expense of their customers.
😂 money grab. add up all the fines and it’ll be 100% of annual revenue pretty soon.
New legislation in Japan requires Apple to allow third-party app stores and payment providers on the iPhone.
The Japanese parliament has passed the Act on Promotion of Competition for Specified Smartphone Software, a law that compels Apple to allow access to third-party app stores and payment providers on devices that run iOS. The legislation, which was passed by Japan's upper house and will be enforced following Cabinet approval within the next eighteen months, seeks to curb the dominance of major tech firms like Apple in the smartphone market.
The law requires Apple to make several significant changes to its business practices. The company will have to permit third-party app stores on its devices, just like it does in the EU. App developers will be allowed to use third-party payment services. There are also provisions to allow users to change default settings via new choice screens during setup, such as for selecting a default browser.
Apple will be forbidden from giving its own services preferential treatment in search results without a justifiable reason. The law also prohibits the use of data acquired about competing software to benefit its own apps. Additionally, the law requires that third-party developers have access to the same features as Apple's own apps and services, such as NFC for contactless payments.
Failure to comply with these new regulations could lead to fines amounting to 20 percent of relevant turnover, with the figure increasing to 30 percent for repeat offenses. In a statement to The Verge, Apple said:
The law is expected to be fully implemented by the end of 2025. Epic Games has already announced plans to bring Fortnite and its game store platform to iOS in Japan by late 2025.
Japan's move follows a trend of international legislative efforts aimed at regulating the dominance of major tech companies. The European Union's Digital Markets Act (DMA) and the UK's Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill are similar initiatives designed to foster competition and prevent monopolistic practices. Various antitrust cases in the United States are also targeting similar issues.
Article Link: Japan Passes Law to Allow Third-Party App Stores on the iPhone
