Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Jobs Likely to Avoid Criminal Charges in Options Probe

When will the Feds decide?

I was wondering if anyone knows when the Feds will make up their mind on the matter? Is there a court date set? How exactly does that announcement work?

Steve is a great CEO. I'm looking forward to the Feds clearing him of any wrongdoing.

Good luck Steve!
 
kcroy said:
I was wondering if anyone knows when the Feds will make up their mind on the matter? Is there a court date set? How exactly does that announcement work?
Click to expand...

Question already asked and answered.

IJ Reilly said:
At some point, the SEC will announce whether they plan on filing charges or taking some other action, or no action. I'd expect to see this within the next couple of months. The wild card in the mix is the number of backdating episodes they are currently investigating, which is vast. This argues both for the SEC taking its sweet time, and also for them ultimately letting current officers at Apple off the hook. The other wild card is the shareholder lawsuit on the same matter, and the talk about AGs from some states investigating the possibility of filing charges of their own. The bottom line is that this cloud is not going away quickly, but it looks like it might be starting to disburse. We'll see tomorrow, by how this news is received by the market.
Click to expand...
 
Spidermanjohn said:
Love the product, but just another rich man getting away with a crime.
Click to expand...

You do know that a lot of middle class workers get the benefit of backdating options, right? That we hear about this is that companie are required to report this? That many, many cases of backdating sail on by because they involve rank and file folks and not top officers?
 
DeathChill said:
...Also, I'm curious as to who the hell keeps voting everything negative?
Click to expand...
Troll.jpeg
 
I will proudly state that i voted this news negative just so everyone will complain. I mean, what's the big deal if I vote negative? it's my choice and i don't care what you think! haha

It's not clear to me yet WHY he was let off the hook.

I have no blind faith in apple (or anything else) and never will.

I suggest you seek out WHY he was let off the hook. I plan to.

You seriously need to question for the truth and NOT be fanboys/girls.
 
MacinDoc said:
Backdating is not illegal, but falsifying documents to cover up backdating is. It's all about the disclosure (at least as far as I understand it, but I'm no expert on the subject).
Click to expand...

It's a little bit more complicated than that. One of the beauties about options is that they are a bit of a financial reporting dodge for a company-- even though they are a cost to shareholders, the company is not legally required to report it as a cost, therefore allowing them to overstate earnings (although many companies have recently been "voluntarily" reporting costs due to options). If you backdate, however, the company is legally obligated to report the difference between the current market value and the backdated value as a current expense. A few companies have been doing the backdating without the adjusted accounting, hence the scandal.
 
AeronPrometheus said:
Steve Jobs is pure hearted compared to most corporate big wigs.
Click to expand...

LOL, I think you are overstating the case. I admire the Steve as a leader, and love Apple-the-company; but it's apparent to me that Steve is one of the world's great megalomaniacs. Yes, in contrast to Mr. Gates, Steve seems to have seen diminishing returns in terms of self-gratification after the first few hundred million dollars. But all the signs are there of someone who is intensely motivated by amassing power.
 
johnee said:
It's not clear to me yet WHY he was let off the hook.
Click to expand...

See my previous note. This all stems from a prior revelation by Apple that they needed to adjust earnings to account for backdated options. Several things to keep in mind:

1. Backdating options is legal.

2. Failure to account properly for backdated options is in and of itself is a technical violation of reporting requirements. It is not in and of itself criminal. Companies mistate earnings all the time, then go back and correct earlier reports.

3. Only the intent to defraud is criminal. It is very hard to prove intent. And here are some things that would mitigate against intent:

  • Reasonably prompt reporting/ correction of the error by the company itself
  • The fact that the decision-makers did not themselves directly profit from the error.
 
SEC closes in on ex-Apple lawyer

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5730631

"The Securities and Exchange Commission is expected this week to bring its first legal action in the Apple backdating probe, targeting the company's former top lawyer for her alleged role in rigging options, according to sources familiar with the matter.

Former General Counsel Nancy Heinen's lawyers are vowing to fight any SEC charges, saying she's the scapegoat in an investigation that has generated unusual attention because it involves Apple and Steve Jobs, its famous CEO."​
 
Counter said:
It was a complete accident his 7.5 million shares were backdated massively in his favor. It's not his fault. These things happen when you're Steve Jobs. Petty, petty Feds. Don't they have bigger fish to fry? :D
Click to expand...

********.

1. The whole point of giving Steve Jobs stock options was so that he could profit financially. 2. The company had agreed on the exercise price for the options, but issuing the options took time. If they had issued the same options earlier under exactly the same conditions, they would not have been backdated. 3. When all this happened, the rules were different. 4. Steve Jobs returned all the stock options, so the strike price didn't make one bit of a difference. 5. It was Apple Inc. who started the whole investigation without being asked by the SEC or anyone else.
 
Gasu E. said:
See my previous note. This all stems from a prior revelation by Apple that they needed to adjust earnings to account for backdated options. Several things to keep in mind:

1. Backdating options is legal.

2. Failure to account properly for backdated options is in and of itself is a technical violation of reporting requirements. It is not in and of itself criminal. Companies mistate earnings all the time, then go back and correct earlier reports.

3. Only the intent to defraud is criminal. It is very hard to prove intent. And here are some things that would mitigate against intent:

  • Reasonably prompt reporting/ correction of the error by the company itself
  • The fact that the decision-makers did not themselves directly profit from the error.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this accurate, informed post. Though I suspect that Jobs isn't vulnerable to criminal charges, I would add that the article cites only unnamed sources. We've seen similar, if not quite so detailed, articles on this issue in the past. When they rely so heavily on confidential sources, you have to ask yourself who these sources might be, and why they will speak only off the record. The other things to consider is that the SEC isn't the only possible source of problems for Apple and Jobs, and also that criminality isn't the only potential cause for dismissal.
 
Even if Jobs was guiltier than John Wilkes Booth, you can bet Apple would find a way to get him out of it smelling like roses. We've all see what happens to Apple when Jobs isn't there.
 
So I want to know what will happen to Heinen and Anderson. A measly $50k fine? That's nothing to them. They require reconsequences that will repay the stockholders what they deserve for the damage that not only the "misreported" options caused, but also this investigation has caused on AAPL's stock price.

And for the record, if Steve is guilty, so be it. He should be punished accordingly as well. You know that after he serves his term (or fulfills whatever consequences he faces) Apple will take him back. Until then, Apple will have enough momentum to carry on.

-Clive
 
AidenShaw said:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5730631

"The Securities and Exchange Commission is expected this week to bring its first legal action in the Apple backdating probe, targeting the company's former top lawyer for her alleged role in rigging options, according to sources familiar with the matter.

Former General Counsel Nancy Heinen's lawyers are vowing to fight any SEC charges, saying she's the scapegoat in an investigation that has generated unusual attention because it involves Apple and Steve Jobs, its famous CEO."​
Click to expand...

I hope she does not make a deal with the procecutors so she can get a lesser charge by implicating Steve. IMHO the feds would like to have something om Steve. Real or not, it would look real bad.
 
EagerDragon said:
I hope she does not make a deal with the procecutors so she can get a lesser charge by implicating Steve. IMHO the feds would like to have something om Steve. Real or not, it would look real bad.
Click to expand...

If she has information which does implicate Steve Jobs, then she is legally obligated to turn that info over, and I hope she does. Steve Jobs should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law just like any other CEO or corporate executive would be.

If Steve Jobs merely said backdating was ok, but didn't enforce their proper accounting, then what do you say to that? He is the CEO, he is ultimately responsible for everything apple does. It's his job to ensure every accounting detail is followed. The fact that he delegates the job to his CFO doesn't mean he's in the clear, he's the one in charge.

If he said backdating was ok, and specifically told the CFO via email or some other provable method to make sure the accounting was done correctly but it wasn't, then that's a grey area, and maybe this is why they are not pressing charges, which I might agree with. After all, he could have made it a point to verify the accounting was done properly knowing people go to jail for things like this.
 
Maybe Fake Steve Jobs in right?

Acccording to the Fake Steve Jobs website, the investigation has been kept alive by the Gonzales because Gore is on the board. Though that sounded laughable and pathetic satire when I first heard it, after the latest revelations, you've got to wonder.
 
Swift said:
Acccording to the Fake Steve Jobs website, the investigation has been kept alive by the Gonzales because Gore is on the board. Though that sounded laughable and pathetic satire when I first heard it, after the latest revelations, you've got to wonder.
Click to expand...

What revelations?
 
Perspective

I'm not going to comment on the financial and legal issues here as I have no expertise in either. I want to say up front that I have used Apple products for over 25 years and continue to prefer them because of their quality. I would, however, like to make the following observation:

Those who say that Steve jobs is the Greatest CEO and then turn around and wonder what would happen to Apple without him have disproven their initial statement. I fully believe that Steve Jobs is a visionary. Whether or not he is a megalomaniac, I'm not sure, but he is legendary for being a perfectionist and a control freak, at least where his product is concerned. That has both positives and negatives.

Has he brought Apple back from the brink? Yes. Has he provided the guidance - the ideas, even - to produce some really revolutionary products? Yes. Is he the best at giving keynote presentations, presenting the public face of the company? Yes. Has he created a corporate culture or groomed a successor so he could step out and the innovation would continue apace? I don't know. A great CEO creates a company that can run without him. At the very least, he is complicit in tying Apple's fortunes to his presence.

And more to the point, he is human; therefore, he is fallible. Like I said, I'm not going to comment on the legal or financial issues in this case, but I won't say, "he wouldn't do that." Human history has shown too many examples to the contrary, and, again, Steve Jobs is human.
 
Can we have some news, rumors... I'm sick of looking at this 4 day old headline. What, I'm supposed to be happy because SJ gets to live another day in obscene luxury? Get real people -- crooks belong in jail. There, I said it.
 
The market seemed to like this report -- AAPL was up nearly 3% on an otherwise down day. Volume was unexceptional, so we'll see how well it holds up when the trading gets heavy, or when the financial report comes out on Wednesday.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back