Jobs on 'open' iPod

[hulugu]

It's sad to see how many of us Apple fans subconsciously submit to FUD.

Have you no faith in Apple after all of the wonderful accomplishments that it's made over the last 3 years? What will it take to convince you that they have a smart and solid business strategy?

Why must Apple jump all over the opportunity to partner with a company like Real, who's always made great differences between the windows and mac version of its products?

I think Glaser is an idiot who obviously knows nothing about politics, history, or economics since he's so intent on making comparisons between Apple and the Soviet Union. I also think his offer was at best a failure to understand his future partners and at worse extortion.
However, while I believe in Apple—if I didn't I wouldn't have ponied up $150+ in songs from the iTMS, or own an iPod, or a Powerbook for that matter—I hope that they have a good hold on this particular tiger. I'm not concerned about Microsoft, but instead a larger movement against Apple by a host of competitors at once, hence the reference about Machiavelli: the middle-princes should take the weaker members and use them against the strong, so he says at least.
I'm worried about Apple because I beleive that there is more at stake than just the iPod or the iTMS, but rather the whole platform is in trouble if MS is able to make WMA the standard. While the MBU has been great for Apple, I'm concerned the guys who are in charge of Exchange Server while be the same group making decisions about WMA for the Mac. Therein lies the danger.
Interestingly enough, I was reading a review of Sony's new ultra-thin netbook in T3 a British tech/advert magazine and they noted that Apple's iTunes was included. Huh!?
Is Sony stealthily included iTMS like HP? Or did these guys make a mistake? Does anyone around here also own a brand-new VAIO?

 

[doogle]

The only reason Jobs didn't bite is the way Real came at him. The guy is the biggest most arrogant ***hole out there. From what I hear bigger then Gates and in most cases it sure has heck isn’t warranted. Short of Real crawling on their hands and knees to him he would have laughed them off.
Quite honestly I expect to see the iPod at a 10% market share in 5 years. Job's ego will guarantee that it will occur. Reality time you stubborn ***. You are going to be marginalized out of the market at some point if you don’t get some team members on board and sure as heck HP is NOT enough.
Enjoy the good times because when you are on top of the clouds the fall is a killer.

I have to say it...the visual aesthetics (layout, use of "emoticons") let alone the language make this post look so aggresive. Congratulations Siliconaddict this is one scary looking post.

 

[pgwalsh]

It's sad to see how many of us Apple fans subconsciously submit to FUD.

Have you no faith in Apple after all of the wonderful accomplishments that it's made over the last 3 years? What will it take to convince you that they have a smart and solid business strategy?

No.. No faith! They screwed up big before and they can do it again. Remember thier market share is getting smaller. Thank god their MP3 business is doing well or they would probably look pretty bad right now. I'll have more fiath when things turn around and market share grows. I want SOLD RESULTS OF MARKET GROWTH...

 

[Belly-laughs]

When ITMS is launched in Europe, the EU commission will force Apple to license AAC/Fairplay to 3rd parties. I think consumer organisations will demand it too. Both don´t like monopolists or emerging ones.

I agree with others who feel that to fight WMA you need to make AAC more popular amongst other vendors as well, both player manufacturers as well as music stores. If Apple still has the best user experience surely a large amount of consumers will still prefer the iPod/ITMS combination? Steve may be right in not teaming up with Real, but I have a feeling that it has just as much to do with battle of egos as it has to do with business sense.

 

[yamabushi]

Excuses, excuses

Seems like Jobs is just making excuses for less than stellar computer sales and avoiding more strategic partnerships by diverting attention toward current iPod sales growth. Next year if iPod sales are sluggish, where is investor excitement going to come from?

True, Real is not the ideal partner for the iPod. That would be Sony. I would be very interested in a Sony branded iPod and music store. Regardless, Apple will have to open up its system at some point or risk becoming a passing fad.

 

[topicolo]

Like so many people have said before, the reason real has been "less than successful" is because of their craptacular software. Everybody hates it. To me, real's software always annoys me with its "usage tracking" and endless stream of ads. Real may just be the one company I hate more than M$.

The point is, Apple is make the right decision to snub real because spending any resources on that dying failure of a company would just be a waste of apple's talent. Good job Jobs, keep dissin' them.

 

[greg75]

Bill Gates: "To be honest, it's just not worth it [ developing Office for MacOS X ]". Gates notes that Apple's operating system has been "less than successful."

 

[greg75]

The free realplayer is hidden behind a bunch of deceptive links and requires you to fill out a form before you can download it.

real.com -> Free Player tab at the top -> Free Download

There is no form, only ignorant and/or lying Mac zealots.

 

[dcranston]

There is a form!

real.com -> Free Player tab at the top -> Free Download

There is no form, only ignorant and/or lying Mac zealots.

Uhm, dude, did you try clicking on that link? You have to enter an email address, click on "new customer", which brings you to a page that asks for your name, gender, birth year, and new password, all before you can download the software.

Seems to be a form to me.

Plus, just look at real.com for a second. You're a newbie. You're looking to get RealPlayer. Will you choose the light grey text at the top right corner (or perhaps the size 7 font at the bottom), or are you more likely to choose the very obvious orange box that says "Free Download"? Well, you have to pay close attention to realize that the OBVIOUS box is actually a trial version (aka, give us your money for the "full" version, fool), whereas the light grey text is the free version.

Either way you'll be filling out a form though...

So before you call everyone mac zealots (especially in this case, dude, it's real, not MS!), try clicking on the link you prescribe as the antidote!

 

[rdowns]

Well said. Many people seem to be saying how desperately Apple needs allies if it is going to continue its dominance of digital music. It is true that in the long run Apple will need partnerships, but in order to continue to truely dominate, it needs SMART partnerships. HP is a SMART partnership because it gets iTunes into the homes of millions of people. REAL is not a smart partnership because the company has crap products that do not align with Apple's brand perception in the market place.

Jobs and Co have said a few times now that they are constantly looking for partnerships to further expand iTunes and iPod, and we have seen a few already (HP, Pepsi, AOL) and will see more. They don't need to jump into bed with everyone in order to survive

Well said. The companies Apple has chosen to partner with, at this point, are household names and market leaders. That is very good for Apple and hopefully, people will see them as more than a niche player when the likes of HP, AOL and Pepsi partner with them.

That being said, Apple does need more partners to keep and extend their dominance in this market. Another high profile PC manufacturer would be great (Won't be Dell since they have their own player) I'd bet that once HP starts selling iPods, some of their competitors will come running to Apple to take away an advantage that HP has over them.

I'd like to see Sony ditch their doomed music selling venture and partner with Apple. Put iTunes on Sony PCs and let Sony sell iPods. Give Sony music preferred treatment at the iTMS.

What other PC manufacturers could Apple do an HP-type deal with? Gateway? Toshiba?

With so few PC manufacturers, Apple needs to line up others. How about a deal with EarthLink? They already push their ISP service, a music deal would be a nice extension and open up iPod and iTMS to millions more. Others?

 

[greg75]

Uhm, dude, did you try clicking on that link?

Yes, I did, dude.

real.com -> Free Player tab at the top -> Free Download

gives me a page with download links to several continents.

I click on the "Seattle, WA" link and the download starts.

No form.

 

[billyboy]

When ITMS is launched in Europe, the EU commission will force Apple to license AAC/Fairplay to 3rd parties. I think consumer organisations will demand it too. Both don´t like monopolists or emerging ones.

That would certainly get Apple a lot of publicity. The first company in history to be deemed a monopolist before they even make a sale!

Apple might be good, but they aren't that good! iTMS is the US legal music download market's love child and has hit the ground running faster than any company in the market, but even so only has a tiny percentage of total music sales. Likewise Apple has a monopoly on the Macintosh platform, but that is hardly illegal in the scheme of things.

The bottom line with iPod alliances is the continued ease of use, and to keep that as it is, Apple needs total control over the whole music download, music playing product. HP should think themselves lucky they had a choice of blue for their HPod.

 

[billyboy]

With so few PC manufacturers, Apple needs to line up others. How about a deal with EarthLink? They already push their ISP service, a music deal would be a nice extension and open up iPod and iTMS to millions more. Others?

Think outside of the PC industry. iPods are a lifestyle choice. Nail the people with an iPod-esque life style and you have potential partners. Gucci, Mercedes, and all the other designer companies I know nothing about!

 

[whatever]

Should the Virgin Mega Store Help Tower Records, too?

Let's step and think about this for a second.

1. Besides Porn, what online services actually make money outside of the US (come to think of it Porn is the industry making money hand or fist on the web). One minute people discuss Europe as a grand united federation and then the next people say "well, my country, XYZ, has these special laws designed to screw the man. If I was Apple I would continue to offer iMS in only those countries who have fair laws.

2. Everyone who wants an iPod have already bought them (some of us on our 2nd iPods). It didn't matter what platform they worked on or what Music Store they were compatible with.

3. Remember back in the day, the iPod only supported MP3. The only reason the iPod supports Secure AAC is because that is what Apple had to do to get sign off from the labels. Why the hell would they give that up other Music Stores? That's like Apple giving Real all of their exclusive music formats.

Granted the iTMS is a loss leader for Apple, but hey if we can drive
Apple can drive everyone else out of the market place (like Amazon.com did) then they can think about licensing their technology.

Or we can think of it this way, should Virgin Mega Store help save Tower Records?

Also don't you think it's a little desperate of the Real to go to the press like they did.

Whatever

 

[Spock]

Kinda like the Mac was his undoing back in '84?

Yep, Real was a money maker for Apple. Compatibility is going to be an issue for the iPod maybe not now but in the future. Apple has not given iPod users choice to use the iTms.

 

[hayesk]

Bill Gates: "To be honest, it's just not worth it [ developing Office for MacOS X ]". Gates notes that Apple's operating system has been "less than successful."

Office for MacOS X makes lots of cash for Microsoft. I don't know if it's still true, but MS used to make more money from the average Mac user than PC user. (Mac users required less tech support, and paid more for office)

 

[digitalbiker]

ipod is a short life product

If the iPod's lifespan is only 1-3 years, there may not be much in long-term success for it. I didn't pay $500 for an iPod to have it die in such a short time.

If you use your ipod fairly regularly it will die in 3 years or less. I bought 3 ipods when they they first came out, all are now dead.

The good news is that if it is just the battery, the battery can be replaced fairly cheaply. However in my case, all three iPods suffered from complete disk failure. The iPod is definitely a short lifed device and I sort of think that Apple needs to make consumers more aware of that fact.

I am not the only one who has had that experience. Most of my co-workers who bought iPods have had the same experience. There are also websites full of compliants on dead iPod batteries and disk drives.

I still love the iPod and I have bought another because I use it a lot for audible.com content. I also don't mind buying the newer versions and 3 years is not a bad life-span. I just think Apple might do a better job of pointing out average life-span so that consumers are not miss-led into thinking this device lasts as long as say a "boom Box".

 

[Surfernate]

I-Pod Life

I've had my 10 GIG (the first one) for two years now and I'm really quite happy. It still has almost a full 10 hours of battery life (really). It doesn't get heavy use so the battery should last a long time. Anyhow a cottage industry has sprung up to replace the battery for pretty cheap so I'm not too concerned. The iPod batteries are pretty inexpensive these days, only about $50. How much would AAA batteries cost for the same number of uses? (I figure about $200 in replaceable AAA batteries). The math and value is pretty clear to me.

1-3 years is also the de-facto life expectancy of a PC by the way. People are accustomed to it. It's a planned obsolescence cycle.

Also, here's my take on Real. I HATE it. For all of the above reasons and the fact that it downloads a useless cr*p link to my desktop for every freakin stupid media clip. My wife thinks it's great. She has almost no tech savvy (like 90 percent of computer users I might add). She has no knowledge of it's failings and therefore does not care.

It's a messy issue. Microsuck has the upper hand in that they sell a cheaper, more ubiquitous, off-the-shelf experience (don't even try to argue that).

Consider this:
Alternative fuels are clearly superior in many ways but gasoline is going to run it's full life cyle for the mere fact that almost every car in existince uses it and there's a gas station on every corner. That is what Mac users and the open source movement are working against. The PC as we know it has to complete a similar life cycle which is currently at or near it's market apex. There was a time when the automobile was just brand new (like the personal computer 20 years ago) and fuels still had not sorted themselves out. But within a generation gasoline had pretty much cornered the fuel market and that is what we live with today, and all of it's inherent evils come along for the ride.

Not that Jobs is fundamentally any better than Gates, he just has to work a LOT harder now. Just like our new emerging open source software Prophet mister Torvalds.

 

[Zaty]

I am looking forward to the Microsoft Music Store to compete directly with the iTunes Music Store. I would like to see Microsoft lose a turf battle. The media will basically be free advertisement for Apple.

Microsoft lost the browser wars on the Mac platform.

MS didn't lose the browser war, to use your expression, they merely got out of the race and you know why? MS is so big that they don't have any obligation (market share!) to spend a lot of money on writing and developing free software on a "foreign" platform. Secondly, one day MS could use IE's (or its successor's) absence on the Mac platform for their own marketing, they could for instance say something like:"If you need the best Internet browser, use IE which is only available for Windows"...

 

[Surfernate]

Browser War

Actually, you have a good point on that. Safari, while is has some nice features, is still just a thorn in the side of web developers. I have difficulty accessing online banking functions and other issues and the technical support people basically tell me that if it isn't Windows they are clueless.

If it's not Windows it doesn't exist!

Did you know that most people think Office does not exist for the Mac? (well, we have it but it's still a grossly inferior version in a LOT of ways)

Remember that, and make sure to make a LOT of noise to Apple and other developers to get our platform compatible with the rest of the lemmings. Separatism and superiority, whether real or imagined , is a lonely existence.

Try showing a true blue PC tech your Mac someday...see the fear in their eyes...it's real.

People I know who use PC's constantly and repeatedly say "I'm sick of this thing, my next computer wil be a Mac". But fear of the price and newness keeps them buying cheap chinese Microsuck boxes every time. And complaining to me about their virus and software problems.

Wow, I'm bitter......

 

[CombatWombat]

I fully support anything that brings Real Networks closer to death. I find it funny that the king of closed formats is now whining that other people will not open up. Plus, coming from the PC side real player is quite possibly the worst program currently in wide use. It is a horrible, horrible program. I understand the Mac version is MUCH MUCH better but I just can't get over how bad the PC versions are. I will dance a happy little jig when that company finaly dies.

 

[pgwalsh]

er--just off topic... sorry

Actually, you have a good point on that. Safari, while is has some nice features, is still just a thorn in the side of web developers. I have difficulty accessing online banking functions and other issues and the technical support people basically tell me that if it isn't Windows they are clueless.

If it's not Windows it doesn't exist!

Did you know that most people think Office does not exist for the Mac? (well, we have it but it's still a grossly inferior version in a LOT of ways)

Remember that, and make sure to make a LOT of noise to Apple and other developers to get our platform compatible with the rest of the lemmings. Separatism and superiority, whether real or imagined , is a lonely existence.

Try showing a true blue PC tech your Mac someday...see the fear in their eyes...it's real.

People I know who use PC's constantly and repeatedly say "I'm sick of this thing, my next computer wil be a Mac". But fear of the price and newness keeps them buying cheap chinese Microsuck boxes every time. And complaining to me about their virus and software problems.

Wow, I'm bitter......

I agree with everything you've said. I'm rebuiliding some webpages and I have a hell of a time with Safari. Some reason, it's the only browser not rending the page right. However, my friends (developers) know about safari, but don't care.. They were showing me email based pages in XUL and I couldn't even use it on Safari.

 

[dcranston]

Yes, I did, dude.

real.com -> Free Player tab at the top -> Free Download

gives me a page with download links to several continents.

I click on the "Seattle, WA" link and the download starts.

No form.

So there are two ways I was able to accomplish what you described:

1. Already have an account with real.com and have the cookie info stored in your browser. Although you do still have to "log in" with user name and password.

2. Use a PC. Believe it or not, Real.com looks different (and acts differently!) on a PC vs. on a Mac. You're absolutely right, there's no form for the PC version... how utterly annoying.

Of course, the app itself asks you for the that information on the PC I found, so they get you either way..

 

[mullmann]

Also, Apple has always been about controlling the user experience. Licensing out in the past has hammered then on that point, with the cloners running off in their own directions. One of the main reasons that the mac platform is so much easier and more appealing is that very control, and losing it would relegate Apple to the same cesspool that entraps Microsoft and Windows developers.

This is the point most often missed in the cries for Apple to open up Fairplay/Mac OS/whatever to other vendors. Apple is what it is because it operates a closed-loop shop: whatever the product, everything starts and ends with them. Open things up too much, and Apple stops being Apple. Just look at iTunes on Windows. Apple did a great job porting the software to that OS, but I'm not sure anyone would claim that the quality and experience of using iTunes on Windows are what they are on Mac OS.

This is Apple's defining characteristic and it probably almost always will relegate them to also-ran status even in markets that they create, but they are what they are. Change too much and they stop being the company we're all so passionate about.

 

[mullmann]

No.. No faith! They screwed up big before and they can do it again. Remember thier market share is getting smaller. Thank god their MP3 business is doing well or they would probably look pretty bad right now. I'll have more fiath when things turn around and market share grows. I want SOLD RESULTS OF MARKET GROWTH...

Be careful not to confuse market share growth with growth overall. Apple is growing its user base; if the rate of that growth lags the industry overall then Apple's overall market share slips. But that doesn't mean that Apple doesn't have a healthily-growing business. Apple probably will continue to slip overall because a large portion of the overall market share numbers reflects businesses, a segment where Apple does not compete. Look at other segments, however, and the story is different. Apple increased its year-over-year market share in education, for example.