Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
There's nothing careful about analyzing the impact of a product you don't know anything about. That's just spouting ignorance.

Thanks for at least a complete answer. I guess we will never agree and that is fine. Of course I know nothing about the new product, but there is something like business and general logic that makes it possible to predict to a certain degree what will happen. You can save a link to my posts and later prove me wrong.

Just remember that Balsillie and co argued with the same conviction as you. So many people have tried to pretend that they are in a different category and Apple will not affect them. Nokia/BB in phones, Nintendo/Sega in gaming, Rovio/Nomad in music, the various camera makers...

I'm fully aware of the disruptive capabilities of any Apple product and am absolutely convinced that the iWatch will impact the watch industry. I never disputed that. A good example is indeed Kodak, like you described. However there are still some material differences, and those relate to the experience for the user.

In all the cases you mentioned the end result for the user is the same product by another manufacturer: a phone call by iOS in stead of BB, a game played on an Android phone in stead of a console, a photo of a city..

The differences:

1. people buy luxury watches surely because of the features, but most importantly for the way these features are generated: By intricate mechanical movements made of as many -or in some cases as least- possible components.

2. The other reason why people buy luxury watches is because of their emotional value. I have several ones and each one bought at a special occasion. I also have two that were indeed handed down through the family. None of my cheaper digital watches have survived long enough to enable to do that. Or are valuable enough to even consider it.

3. Thirdly, luxury watches are scarce and expensive and therefore considered status symbols. Not much to explain here. Like I said before one of my colleagues just bought a $25,000 Panerai. He didn't buy it because it could tell time and to be honest probable also not because it looks so good. It's an investment and status symbol for him.

These three reasons have caused a growth of the luxury watch segment in the last 30 years. If Apple comes up with a way to address these three points that they will indeed disrupt the luxury market. But if all the rumors are true and their business strategy for iWatch is the same as for the other products than they will introduce a digital watch with sensors at price points somewhere between 200 and 1000 dollars, than I think luxury watch manufacturers will be fine.

You will never concede based on arguments. You are driven entirely by emotion. You like expensive watches. I get that. You probably keep an eye out for them at garage sales and have some online buddies to chat about them, maybe you even scraped together enough to buy one.

There is no need for this personal attack. Did you see me at any point doing the same?

You want to believe that watches are some special case unlike all the others. Well, that may be true, but logic suggests that when countless others have tried your whole "company X is in a different category and untouchable!!!" nonsense and failed, you will be no different.

Sorry, but that's not logic at all. Each example should be analysed on its own merit. My point is that this a very different example than the examples you brought up. And yes I know the CEOs of those companies you mentioned also thought that, but I point to the three reasons above.

As for the quality of your arguments, you make assumptions about products that don't yet exist. You know what happens to those who make assumptions, right?

Agreed, but we all know that Apple will not introduce a diamond and gold studded watch that will run for generations and will be in value somewhere in the $10.000 dollars.

I hate the saying "let's agree to disagree" but I guess in this case it is appropriate. But please leave the personal attacks, because they are not necessary.
 
Jony Ive On iWatch: Switzerland is in Trouble

Thanks for at least a complete answer. I guess we will never agree and that is fine. Of course I know nothing about the new product, but there is something like business and general logic that makes it possible to predict to a certain degree what will happen. You can save a link to my posts and later prove me wrong.







I'm fully aware of the disruptive capabilities of any Apple product and am absolutely convinced that the iWatch will impact the watch industry. I never disputed that. A good example is indeed Kodak, like you described. However there are still some material differences, and those relate to the experience for the user.



In all the cases you mentioned the end result for the user is the same product by another manufacturer: a phone call by iOS in stead of BB, a game played on an Android phone in stead of a console, a photo of a city..



The differences:



1. people buy luxury watches surely because of the features, but most importantly for the way these features are generated: By intricate mechanical movements made of as many -or in some cases as least- possible components.



2. The other reason why people buy luxury watches is because of their emotional value. I have several ones and each one bought at a special occasion. I also have two that were indeed handed down through the family. None of my cheaper digital watches have survived long enough to enable to do that. Or are valuable enough to even consider it.



3. Thirdly, luxury watches are scarce and expensive and therefore considered status symbols. Not much to explain here. Like I said before one of my colleagues just bought a $25,000 Panerai. He didn't buy it because it could tell time and to be honest probable also not because it looks so good. It's an investment and status symbol for him.



These three reasons have caused a growth of the luxury watch segment in the last 30 years. If Apple comes up with a way to address these three points that they will indeed disrupt the luxury market. But if all the rumors are true and their business strategy for iWatch is the same as for the other products than they will introduce a digital watch with sensors at price points somewhere between 200 and 1000 dollars, than I think luxury watch manufacturers will be fine.







There is no need for this personal attack. Did you see me at any point doing the same?







Sorry, but that's not logic at all. Each example should be analysed on its own merit. My point is that this a very different example than the examples you brought up. And yes I know the CEOs of those companies you mentioned also thought that, but I point to the three reasons above.







Agreed, but we all know that Apple will not introduce a diamond and gold studded watch that will run for generations and will be in value somewhere in the $10.000 dollars.



I hate the saying "let's agree to disagree" but I guess in this case it is appropriate. But please leave the personal attacks, because they are not necessary.


Totally agree with you.

People seem to confuse luxury goods with consumer goods.

Luxury goods are rarely purchased for functions or novelty.

A mint Ferrari F40 or the Ferrari GTO may not be as good as a Nissan GTR in some settings but those who can afford the vintage Ferraris will opt for them.
Backpacks might have revolutionized the personal bag market but many gentlemen still prefer a Goyard travel bag over any northface backpack.

Likewise, the iWatch is unlikely to disrupt the luxury (Rolex and higher) watch market.

Even if it entirely replaces the low end watch market, this will only act to drive the prices of Pateks, APs, Langes and Rolexes up.

If iWatch and other smart watches completely take over the watch industry, that will make me value my Patek and Rolexes even more and drive me to save up for more similar watches.
 
Last edited:
Ive is a intelligent guy and I doubt he took himself seriously when making that comment, but he knows a large portion of their consumer base are gullible enough to eat it up and run with it.

In other words, he's a professional troll and doing a good job of it by the looks of this thread.

I'm not so sure on that. It sounds like they really want this to succeed and they're trying to get us onto the hype train. That said I don't know how playful Ive has been in the past.
 
Ah damn.

Back to making cheese then.

Gives me the opportunity to jodel a little more.
 
I'd have to disagree - the Seamaster has almost doubled in price in the last 3 years alone.

Really? Every site I've seen lists it for the same price I bought mine for in 2009, at least in the US.
 
I hope that was satire. The folks who buy $100,000 Rolex's do not buy it to read the time (they probably have a secretary just to do that for them). They buy it because it costs $100,000.

Those people are not going to be see wearing the same thing that hapless nerds can afford to flail around society with. $100,000 watches sell because they showcase affluence - not read time.
 
So, Swatch sales in the US increased 30% since fitness bands appeared on the market.
 
It would be interesting to see what the breakdown is but there is a self selection with any watch related topics, such that those who like to buy a lot of watches (or expensive watches) tend to also participate in them.

As for me, I own more watches in the 50-200 dollar category than in the 20k+ high end category so I consider myself a target customer for the iWatch :)

I'm in the $4,000 to $10,000 range. I wouldn't go above 10K because of the wife.

But for things under $1,000, they have to be technical marvels like the Swatch SISTEM51. It is such a breakthrough watch at $150, I bought the entire set. It was like the SWATCH group giving the big middle finger to Richemont, LMVH, and Rolex, that I had to get it.

I'll randomly get a Seiko5 but those are usually for my 6 year old son so he can get acclimated to automatic mechanical watches.

I did by the Tissot T-Touch and Seiko Final Fantasy for their novelty but quickly offed them when I got bored of them. Quartz just doesn't do it for me.
 
I'm in the $4,000 to $10,000 range. I wouldn't go above 10K because of the wife.



But for things under $1,000, they have to be technical marvels like the Swatch SISTEM51. It is such a breakthrough watch at $150, I bought the entire set. It was like the SWATCH group giving the big middle finger to Richemont, LMVH, and Rolex, that I had to get it.



I'll randomly get a Seiko5 but those are usually for my 6 year old son so he can get acclimated to automatic mechanical watches.



I did by the Tissot T-Touch and Seiko Final Fantasy for their novelty but quickly offed them when I got bored of them. Quartz just doesn't do it for me.


The aesthetics of the ststem51 doesn't appeal to me but I appreciate the engineering.

However, swatch might be hurting in the end with the emergence of the smartwatches
 
The aesthetics of the ststem51 doesn't appeal to me but I appreciate the engineering.

I bought them for my kids really. They're cute and they can now say they have 100% Swiss Made in-house automatics. Plus, they're the 1st generation with a life span of 30 years. So in 5 years when the kids start to wear, they can have some first-release batches of a revolutionary product. It is definitely much cooler in the WIS circle for your 5th grader to be wearing a SISTEM51 than some mall fashion junk watch like Movado or Armani.

And that is something the iWATCH can never capture. A SISTEM51 will be functional in 5,10,15,20,30 years as if you bought it on the first day with zero maintenace. It will be in a safe and when I take it out in 5 years, it will be ticking like any other automatic. By that time, there will be an iWatch 5 or 6. Which isn't the same.
 
I bought them for my kids really. They're cute and they can now say they have 100% Swiss Made in-house automatics. Plus, they're the 1st generation with a life span of 30 years. So in 5 years when the kids start to wear, they can have some first-release batches of a revolutionary product. It is definitely much cooler in the WIS circle for your 5th grader to be wearing a SISTEM51 than some mall fashion junk watch like Movado or Armani.


Oh god movado. Those things should all be destroyed.
 
[url=http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogodarkd.png]Image[/url]


Ahead of Apple's September 9 event, in which the company is expected to finally show off the much-rumored iWatch, an Apple designer told the New York Times (via 9to5Mac), in a larger piece about fashion and technology,*that Jony Ive is bragging that the iWatch could endanger traditional watchmakers.
While part leaks for the device have been nonexistent and solid information about the device's capabilities have been hard to come by, rumors have indicated the wearable may have NFC capabilities, tight integration with iOS 8, features related to health and fitness and that it would serve as an accessory device to the iPhone.

Rumors have suggested the iWatch will be introduced at Apple's September 9 event and will likely launch in early 2015.

Article Link: Jony Ive On iWatch: Switzerland is in Trouble

3 years ago Jonny would've lost his job by doing that.
 
I bought them for my kids really. They're cute and they can now say they have 100% Swiss Made in-house automatics. Plus, they're the 1st generation with a life span of 30 years. So in 5 years when the kids start to wear, they can have some first-release batches of a revolutionary product. It is definitely much cooler in the WIS circle for your 5th grader to be wearing a SISTEM51 than some mall fashion junk watch like Movado or Armani.

And that is something the iWATCH can never capture. A SISTEM51 will be functional in 5,10,15,20,30 years as if you bought it on the first day with zero maintenace. It will be in a safe and when I take it out in 5 years, it will be ticking like any other automatic. By that time, there will be an iWatch 5 or 6. Which isn't the same.

Actually a Sistem 51 would stop whilst in the safe. They only have a 90 hour power reserve. Automatic watches need to be worn to self wind or generate power. Also automatic watches do require maintenance. They are never completely hermetically sealed. Dust gets into the mechanism.
 
Actually a Sistem 51 would stop whilst in the safe. They only have a 90 hour power reserve. Automatic watches need to be worn to self wind or generate power. Also automatic watches do require maintenance. They are never completely hermetically sealed. Dust gets into the mechanism.

But when you take it out of the safe, it will start ticking again once you put it on the wrist. Thats the point.

I have some watches in safes for as long as twenty years. For the SISTEM51, you also don't have to worry about servicing (4 year intervals like a normal Rolex/Omega/IWC). The lubrication and design was targetted for 3o years.
The case and engineering already figured out how to hermetically seal the movement. Thus, it is a revolutionary product for $150. It has a stated non-maintenance interval for 20-30 years. That is why I said it was an impressive big Middle finger salute from Swatch Group to the other Swiss.

The point is you can't do that with an electronic gadget. Put an iWatch in a safe and come back in 5-6 years, it will be dated. The battery would be corroded and I doubt it would even fire up. If it did, it would be pathetically slow and useless compared to what is contemporary at the time.
 
Actually a Sistem 51 would stop whilst in the safe. They only have a 90 hour power reserve. Automatic watches need to be worn to self wind or generate power. Also automatic watches do require maintenance. They are never completely hermetically sealed. Dust gets into the mechanism.


Who would put their sistem51 in a safe?
It's a $150 watch.
 
i think you have pretty much said what i wanted to say. apple are going after the watch industry here and once this device comes out all watches would start looking ancient, including the premium luxury watches.

Bring it on Apple. cant wait till all these guys on this thread are proven wrong.

This is Going to be a Repeat of IPHONE.

I like this Speed Racer guy ;)

One additional thought - is the technology there yet to turn the sapphire face into a 'finger print identity sensor'? Having a second button to scan your finger seems awkward and un-apple like.

Imagine how convenient it would be to pay for something or to open your car or front door with something on your wrist and confirming it's you by gently touching your index finger on the face of the display?

Creditcard # 5191... :)
 
However, swatch might be hurting in the end with the emergence of the smartwatches

Actually, their management thinks the reverse, that they will convert many people into watch wearers. They welcome Apple. See above.
 
If anyone wants to take a bet with me on whether Apple iWatch will compete with Patek Philippes and A. Lange&sohne please PM me.

----------

Actually, their management thinks the reverse, that they will convert many people into watch wearers. See above.


The stock dipped 3% so maybe it's just small amount of unjustified fear, but I was specifically referring to low end Swatch products.

Swatch owns Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, etc in the high end range; those brands will not be negatively affected by anything Apple does.
 
Who would put their sistem51 in a safe?
It's a $150 watch.

I agree, I was responding to someone who said if he did it would still be ticking when he pulled it out.

----------

But when you take it out of the safe, it will start ticking again once you put it on the wrist. Thats the point.

I have some watches in safes for as long as twenty years. For the SISTEM51, you also don't have to worry about servicing (4 year intervals like a normal Rolex/Omega/IWC). The lubrication and design was targetted for 3o years.
The case and engineering already figured out how to hermetically seal the movement. Thus, it is a revolutionary product for $150. It has a stated non-maintenance interval for 20-30 years. That is why I said it was an impressive big Middle finger salute from Swatch Group to the other Swiss.

It's stated. It hasn't been proven in real use yet.
 
I doubt Rolex are quaking in their boots.

The digital watch revolution was supposed to kill them in the 80s, there will always be a whopping market for Rolex and their prices continue to rise due to the demand.

The smart watch is a diff market altogether
 
Seems un characteristic of Apple employees to discuss products not yet announced. Even for Jony Ive. Could be true but that's odd indeed to me
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.