The ways of old folks die hard. But due to finite human life spans, they do die. Thus, in the longer term, the business value of these "ways" depends on the number of new younger folk who learn to engage with the same passion and buy new. The Swiss watch industry (number of employees, balance of trade, etc.) depends on making and selling new watches, not appraising and cleaning your old (valuable, exquisite) collectables.
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Jony Ive On iWatch: Switzerland is in Trouble
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The ways of old folks die hard. But due to finite human life spans, they do die. Thus, in the longer term, the business value of these "ways" depends on the number of new younger folk who learn to engage with the same passion and buy new. The Swiss watch industry (number of employees, balance of trade, etc.) depends on making and selling new watches, not appraising and cleaning your old (valuable, exquisite) collectables.
Every watch I've bought has been new in the past 25 years and I continue to buy new every year (or other years when the fund permits). I sell my old ones that have appreciated in value to fund purchases of new ones. Go to timezone.
A majority of those posters are in their late 20s, mid 30s.
Doesn't this watch require an iPhone to work? I hardly believe the high end watch makers are worried about this. Having a cellphone to tell time has discouraged me from wearing a watch many times day to day, but to a formal event I will still wear a watch. This surely wouldn't be wearable to a formal event. This thing would also not be compatible for day to day use. I'm not sure what Apple is trying to do here. Is this going to be included free when people buy an iPhone?
Exactly. And this is my issue. Apple will charge like a bull for their watch thats meant to scare the swiss watch makers, and yet Apple also wants it to be a throw-away device so they can keep selling them the next year.
Note that the alleged quote regarding watches was not "The Swiss luxury business is f...ed", but was "Switzerland is ...".
The entire Swiss watch economy (number of employed citizens, retail shelf space, etc.) is built upon a lot more than just $4k and above SKUs. It's very interesting that that mid-range portion of the watch business isn't the one that anyone here seems to be defending. And that's the segment that is within the tech+fashion industries cross-hairs. Re-focusing on only the luxury end of the business (well above Apple's rumored product range) seems to be a straw man argument.
The Innovators Dilemma shows how big industries that cater only to their high-end customers can get hollowed out from the bottom, into a ghost of their former selves. A lot of unexpected winning innovation is driven from closer to the bottom.
I seriously doubt the high-end luxury stuff will ever go away (wealthy "cultured" people need to show off). But it might get pushed into an even higher-end but smaller corner... extremely expensive stuff that fewer and fewer people still buy. Not necessarily the type of thing you might want to base a growing national economy (Switzerland as a whole) on into the future.
Their gold models go for above $20K so the average could be a bit skewed.
Their most popular watches are all around $8k so $8k would be a good bet for the median.
Only the high-end. Will the grandkids still be interested in any mid-range traditional watches that fall in the same price range as Apple's current products?
Interesting, I'd like to see the "list of reasons for buying a high quality Swiss mechanical watch," and see where "telling time" is. It must be a pretty long list though, if that reason is pretty far down.
- Looks nice, i.e., Jewelry
- Telling time
- Investment (possible)
- umm...
I wear mine to tell time and look nice. I must be the exception.
Excellent condescending comment, but I'll reply anyway.
1. Looks - the jewelry aspect
2. Heritage / History (Omega Speedmaster, Heuer Monaco, etc.)
3. Appreciation for the mechanical movement aspect of the watch, complications, etc.
4. Collectibility, prestige, all that jazz.
5. Utility - such as chrono, dive watch, etc.
6. Basic time telling.
Of course I, and I'm sure every owner of a nice timepiece, uses it to tell time. But if that's all you care about, your phone, the computer you sit in front of all day, or a $20 Timex will do as good or better of a job at that. You pay a the huge premium for all the "other" things you get with a Swiss mechanical.
Nobody is saying Apple won't disrupt the market.
I'm certain they'll capture some of that under $1,000 market.
The ludicrous arguments are the ones where they say Apple will annihilate the $3K and up; jeopardizing SWATCH Group, Richmont and Rolex. Apple won't kill Rolex who has 4.5 billion in annual sales with an average ASP of at least $8K per product.
That is what is puzzling as those arguments refuse to entertain the reason why people make luxury purchases.
Ive is a intelligent guy and I doubt he took himself seriously when making that comment, but he knows a large portion of their consumer base are gullible enough to eat it up and run with it.
In other words, he's a professional troll and doing a good job of it by the looks of this thread.
Nope. You don't know jack about the iWatch. Nobody on this forum does. Wait until Tuesday when you find out what it does and does not require.
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So luxury makers don't have to deal with new competition? LOL, haven't heard that one before. I guess you have to grasp at something to explain what makes these guys special.
Meanwhile, luxury car companies are starting to hurt, especially in the US, because of Tesla. Feature for feature the luxury brands are way ahead- BMW, Porshe, etc. have all sorts of stuff Teslas don't. Performance wise the luxury brands are ahead. In terms of history / sentimentality / brand recognition they should be ahead. Style wise they are ahead- the Tesla doesn't really stand out in a parking lot. Price wise the luxury brands are ahead- they have pricier, more exclusive vehicle options, some of which have runs as small as a few hundred, vs. the commoditized every-millionaire-has-it Tesla.
Yet somehow, they are getting creamed by the upstart. You see, you until we find out what Apple has to offer we have no way of knowing what the impact will be, but it certainly is possible for an upstart to take an established luxury industry in a completely different direction.
Might be a challenge to have a pure mechanical iWatch.
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Duh.
That is why the quartz and digital watch disruption was so severe. Because with it came a cheap alternative that was essentially just as good as a 10.000$ Rolex if not better. Therefor expensive watches became less of a necessity.
Expensive watches were a necessity. Even long before quartz watches came out there were plenty of cheap mechanical watches. The expensive watch market was always a very small niche market.
So you're suggesting he had someone contact the NY Times and give them that quote?
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Because he has a build like somebodies bodyguard or a nightclub bouncer.
Necessity? How did human civilization ever survive for millennia before watch movements were even invented?
Or maybe you were referring to regions of the world where expensive watches were a required "offering" to government/party officials to get something/anything done?
Or maybe for scuba divers?
No way. This competes against Swatch (that is, upto $150). And those are not gadgets.
$150 might be a bit low.
This device could cost as much as $400.
I'm just saying Tissots etc are not luxury watches so they "could" suffer some losses.
It does not matter if it costs $400.
A $300 Casio Ediffice competes against a $150 Swatch.
Maybe for you but I am not sure everyone agrees on one way to segment the market.
Price is a simple way to do it but there are different ways to divide the customer segments by price.
At least to me, the only standouts I want to buy from the below $2000 category seem to be casio G shock and maybe the new sistem51 from Swatch.
iWatch is not a standout, it is a gadget competing against real watches, even if they don't stand out.
And yet, all those Swatch's and low-end Swiss products are selling in not insignificant quantities to some large group of consumers. I guess those customers aren't well represented here (or don't want to admit it).
Apple is also pretty good at selling product between priced $1k and $2k as well. Granted, not so much at above $4k. (Currently.)
Jony Ive On iWatch: Switzerland is in Trouble
It would be interesting to see what the breakdown is but there is a self selection with any watch related topics, such that those who like to buy a lot of watches (or expensive watches) tend to also participate in them.
As for me, I own more watches in the 50-200 dollar category than in the 20k+ high end category so I consider myself a target customer for the iWatch
It would be interesting to see what the breakdown is but there is a self selection with any watch related topics, such that those who like to buy a lot of watches (or expensive watches) tend to also participate in them.
As for me, I own more watches in the 50-200 dollar category than in the 20k+ high end category so I consider myself a target customer for the iWatch
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It would be interesting to see what the breakdown is but there is a self selection with any watch related topics, such that those who like to buy a lot of watches (or expensive watches) tend to also participate in them.
As for me, I own mode watches in the 50-200 dollar category than in the 20k+ high end category so I consider myself a target customer for the iWatch
If you wear different watches, you're in the target market for the iWatch (if it makes sense at all not to wear it every day).
If you can only afford one, not so much, unless you have not been interested in normal watches.