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another good example on why you should not let Marketing people do design work

That would be funny if marketing people did design work.

Actually, no it still wouldn't.

I'm gobsmacked at all these negative comments toward marketing, when in reality it's obvious not a single person making them has a clue what marketing does, or how design projects like these are managed and run. To aim those commenters in the right direction - marketing doesn't do the design work. And marketing doesn't have nearly the amount of authority statements like those imply, as if marketing makes all these decisions unilaterally or in a vacuum. Marketing as a department is so much more subservient to the powers that be, perhaps if things were flipped and marketing actually held any power they could make some of these important decisions without morons and armchair quarterbacks who think they understand this stuff and who have all the authority **** and let marketing do its job, then maybe, just maybe, you'd end up with something more people liked. You'll never get everyone to agree (it's impossible), and the worst group to judge whether something is good is a bunch of blogging technology astute engineer types who all think they understand what business strategy and tactics are all about, and thinking that they alone represent all consumers and consumer groups.

Ha! That was more funny than it originally appeared after all, thanks for the giggle!
 
Phew ... I hope this is not a rumor and is true.

Just what I was thinking. It's just kind of weird that these icons are so prominently featured on Apple's web site.

If they were going to be the face of iOS, albeit in beta, and they did have months, they should have done a better job or put a higher priority on these icons.
 
I'm sorry but I don't fall for this trick. It may change before release but I expect it to only be some icons and colours.

It still sucks. I will still be switching OS and quite frankly Apple should have been embarrassed showing that terrible OS off even if it was beta.
 
The site goes on to note that the design is a "firmly a 'work in progress'", and that the look and feel of the icons and other new UI bits are likely to change significantly as the iOS 7 beta proceeds.

Thank goodness for that. I love the UX but the icons are atrocious! giving something that involves design to marketing is always a bad idea...
 
I'm not sure that I support the idea (philosophically) of giving marketers the job that the designers should be doing.

If the marketing people can do that job, make them designers and take them out of marketing.

The results also don't seem to be great. I don't like most of the new icons (and it seems like others agree). But I'd expect these things to change over the course of the beta.
 
That would be funny if marketing people did design work.

Actually, no it still wouldn't.

I'm gobsmacked at all these negative comments toward marketing, when in reality it's obvious not a single person making them has a clue what marketing does, or how design projects like these are managed and run. To aim those commenters in the right direction - marketing doesn't do the design work. And marketing doesn't have nearly the amount of authority statements like those imply, as if marketing makes all these decisions unilaterally or in a vacuum. Marketing as a department is so much more subservient to the powers that be, perhaps if things were flipped and marketing actually held any power they could make some of these important decisions without morons and armchair quarterbacks who think they understand this stuff and who have all the authority **** and let marketing do its job, then maybe, just maybe, you'd end up with something more people liked. You'll never get everyone to agree (it's impossible), and the worst group to judge whether something is good is a bunch of blogging technology astute engineer types who all think they understand what business strategy and tactics are all about, and thinking that they alone represent all consumers and consumer groups.

Ha! That was more funny than it originally appeared after all, thanks for the giggle!



Wow, what's the marketing term for "run-on sentence"?

:rolleyes:
 
I'm not sure that I support the idea (philosophically) of giving marketers the job that the designers should be doing.

If the marketing people can do that job, make them designers and take them out of marketing.

The results also don't seem to be great. I don't like most of the new icons (and it seems like others agree). But I'd expect these things to change over the course of the beta.

Surely they were trained in software devopment though?
 
Putting Marketing people in charge of ANYTHING critical is a bad idea. They aren't engineers, they aren't interface people, heck, they aren't even graphics and design people. Marketing is full of glorified sales people. As others have said this explains a lot.

I took the term "marketing department" to mean the team of artists responsible for Apple's very high quality web, print, and other marketing design — not sales reps. Apparently the engineers and interface people gave us the God-awful skeuomorphisms like game center, OSX's iCal, etc. I for one welcome the ditching of the endless drop shadows and sheen. In my 30 years as a graphic artist, I tend to see engineer/interface-types as those who cannot resist the temptation to bevel, emboss, shellac, marbleize, chrome plate, and otherwise destroy any clean functional design with vomitus masses of eye candy. Way to go Jony!
 
I'm all for an interface redesign and if the whole apple fandom world is now dead set against anything skeuomorphic then so be it, but please give us a little bit of texture. All of the plain white screens are actually devoid of any design sensibility. The flat icons are a step backwards and a trend of the moment at best (Windows 8). It's odd though that while video game and movie graphics continue to push for greater and greater depth and realism, iOS is abandoning all of that and moving towards flat cutouts and design desolation. Why does a person even need a retina display to look at a solid white interface and flat icons?
 
is a mistake.

Look what they did with the very first iteration since he is removed from the capacity.

Software is the soul of Mac and iOS, it is a mistake to take down Scott.

That guy HAD to go and I'm glad he's gone. Reason #0:
Refusing to take responsibility for Maps.

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I took the term "marketing department" to mean the team of artists responsible for Apple's very high quality web, print, and other marketing design — not sales reps. Apparently the engineers and interface people gave us the God-awful skeuomorphisms like game center, OSX's iCal, etc. I for one welcome the ditching of the endless drop shadows and sheen. In my 30 years as a graphic artist, I tend to see engineer/interface-types as those who cannot resist the temptation to bevel, emboss, shellac, marbleize, chrome plate, and otherwise destroy any clean functional design with vomitus masses of eye candy. Way to go Jony!

Exactly! You can see his imprint all over iOS. I'm happy that pinstripes and excess chrome are gone. The OS feels brighter and I'm happy that using black is greatly diminished.
 
is a mistake.

Look what they did with the very first iteration since he is removed from the capacity.

Software is the soul of Mac and iOS, it is a mistake to take down Scott.

Scott Forstall was a pariah. Apple's first WWDC without him was the best in many years.

Just look how happy his co-workers were to burn him any chance they could get. They suffered through his incompetence.

.
 
I took the term "marketing department" to mean the team of artists responsible for Apple's very high quality web, print, and other marketing design — not sales reps.

Interaction design is completely different from the things you mention, having skill in one does not at all translate to the other by default.
 
If we are going to talk about icons, might as well discuss the overall look.

Lock screen
The intuitiveness is gone. Gave my friend my iPhone with iOS 7 beta on it and asked him to unlock the screen. He kept swiping up because he saw the control center ^, and read the "swipe to unlock". He is a android user and never owned a iOS device. This is BAD. iOS devices are intuitive, you don't have to read a manual to start using it. The iPad and iPhone are devices that are easy to use, I have seen infants, children, teenagers, adults and elderly people use them. The current look of iOS 7 may alienate current iOS 6 users and new customers that have never used a smart phone or tablet. Supposedly there are more Android devices sold in the world than Apple. However, when you look at Internet usage, you find that iOS is dominant over anything and everything else. The reason is (I think) because the iOS devices are intuitive, convenient, and reliable to use. Those 3 attributes, I think, are very important, because if the iOS devices were not a pleasure to use then you would not have the age range and success that Apple now has today. People would only use them when they had no other choice, and I think that is evident by Android tablet sales and Internet usage. Maybe a outlined circle with a ">" inside it positioned to the left "swipe to unlock" would fix this issue. Whatever the solution, make it consistent throughout the OS (like when answering a phone call, etc).

Share Button & Safari Bookmarks Button
Mail, in iOS 7, has a Reply Arrow Button similar to the arrow used in the Share Button from iOS 6. Why can't that arrow be mirrored and placed above a box for the iOS 7 Share Button. The square with the straight up arrow does not look right, and will confuse users. Overall, the buttons in mail look good, the share button and bookmark button, need work.

Notes
Are textures bad or are they good? The background of the notepad has a texture of paper. IF we are going to make fun of Scott F. for green felt and wood, then why does Notes have a paper texture? Overall, I don't think textures or patterns are bad when used right, but don't throw stones from a glass house.

White
Lots of plain white backgrounds (or white transparent). Messages for example, why not make the background a light blue for iMessage and light green for TXT? If you want transparent, then make them light blue/green transparent, but give it some color. Same with Mail, Calendar, Settings, Contacts, Bookmark Menus, etc.

Notification Center
To much scrolling. I have to scroll a lot more to see the information I use to be able to see in iOS 6 Notification Center. Plus where is Weather? The layout of the iOS 6 Notification Center is good, but I hated the inconsistency of the embossed and impressed areas.

Bloody Icons & Consistency
People don't seem to like a lot of them. Just make some goods ones and then be consistent throughout the OS. For example the gear icon for Settings, and the gear icon inside Settings next to the General selection. Or the camera icon in the lock screen and the camera icon for Camera.

Folders
Something about it is just not right. Maybe the gray/white needs to be more transparent. Maybe it just needs to return to the iOS 6 animation (?), but keep the page scrolling so that the number of icons aren't limited.

Skeumorphic
If you are going to go against skeumorphic, does that mean you need to think about sounds too? Is the screen unlock sound something that needs to change? How does this effect other applications like Garageband?

Ok, done with my rant. Overall, I like the new flow/transitions/animations. I think the foundation is solid. The look just needs to be fixed.
 
Hey Apple, can I hide usless stock apps yet? No? -_-

Hopefully there will be some tweaks over the next couple months, I will likely just jailbreak my phone again (which I could now if I was not on 6.1.4) so I can have better control over the look, yet sometimes jailbreaks never feel stable enough.

Game center and photos are an odd color choice, almost feels random, just toss some bubbles on there and remind us of the MSN butterfly.
 
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Jony Ive, not only has designer face stubble but he has designer chest hair stubble. Now that's attention to detail.
 
Except Apple has never significantly changed the design during the beta period. It isn't obvious at all. If people don't like it, they should complain so that Apple hears.

What? Look at the Leopard betas. They DID change. (New icons, some more options and etc.)
 
Hey Apple, can I hide usless stock apps yet? No? -_-

Hopefully there will be some tweaks over the next couple months, I will likely just jailbreak my phone again (which I could now if I was not on 6.1.4) so I can have better control over the look, yet sometimes jailbreaks never feel stable enough.

Depends on what you mean by hide. You can hide any app in a folder. Newstand be gone.
 
I like most of the icons, but absolutely HATE the newsstand icon, it really does look like its an 8 year olds craft project.

But plenty of time for change, and speaking of change, if we dont get a live weather icon I will seriously go nuts!!! :eek:
 
Depends on what you mean by hide. You can hide any app in a folder. Newstand be gone.

Hide completely, there is a cheat I am using to delete or hide them yet they return once the phone is turned off and on again which is rare. I understand there being an issue about deleting some stock apps yet there should at least be a way to hide game center, stocks, newsstand etc...
 
If we are going to talk about icons, might as well discuss the overall look.

Lock screen
The intuitiveness is gone. Gave my friend my iPhone with iOS 7 beta on it and asked him to unlock the screen. He kept swiping up because he saw the control center ^, and read the "swipe to unlock". He is a android user and never owned a iOS device. This is BAD. iOS devices are intuitive, you don't have to read a manual to start using it. The iPad and iPhone are devices that are easy to use, I have seen infants, children, teenagers, adults and elderly people use them. The current look of iOS 7 may alienate current iOS 6 users and new customers that have never used a smart phone or tablet. Supposedly there are more Android devices sold in the world than Apple. However, when you look at Internet usage, you find that iOS is dominant over anything and everything else. The reason is (I think) because the iOS devices are intuitive, convenient, and reliable to use. Those 3 attributes, I think, are very important, because if the iOS devices were not a pleasure to use then you would not have the age range and success that Apple now has today. People would only use them when they had no other choice, and I think that is evident by Android tablet sales and Internet usage. Maybe a outlined circle with a ">" inside it positioned to the left "swipe to unlock" would fix this issue. Whatever the solution, make it consistent throughout the OS (like when answering a phone call, etc).

Share Button & Safari Bookmarks Button
Mail, in iOS 7, has a Reply Arrow Button similar to the arrow used in the Share Button from iOS 6. Why can't that arrow be mirrored and placed above a box for the iOS 7 Share Button. The square with the straight up arrow does not look right, and will confuse users. Overall, the buttons in mail look good, the share button and bookmark button, need work.

Ugh, yeah. They probably know. It's months away from release.


Notes
Are textures bad or are they good? The background of the notepad has a texture of paper. IF we are going to make fun of Scott F. for green felt and wood, then why does Notes have a paper texture? Overall, I don't think textures or patterns are bad when used right, but don't throw stones from a glass house.

Faux-Corinthian leather in Calendar bad. Gamecenter gambling center bad.

White
Lots of plain white backgrounds (or white transparent). Messages for example, why not make the background a light blue for iMessage and light green for TXT? If you want transparent, then make them light blue/green transparent, but give it some color. Same with Mail, Calendar, Settings, Contacts, Bookmark Menus, etc.

Because white goes with almost everything. Want to see more? Go check our Braun design.

Notification Center
To much scrolling. I have to scroll a lot more to see the information I use to be able to see in iOS 6 Notification Center. Plus where is Weather? The layout of the iOS 6 Notification Center is good, but I hated the inconsistency of the embossed and impressed areas.

The weather is there. I'm glad there is more scrolling because there is now more to see.

Bloody Icons & Consistency
People don't seem to like a lot of them. Just make some goods ones and then be consistent throughout the OS. For example the gear icon for Settings, and the gear icon inside Settings next to the General selection. Or the camera icon in the lock screen and the camera icon for Camera.

I doubt the camera icon is going anymore. It's the epitome of Braun design. I bet the icon will be used in more places. The phone dialer also screams Braun.

Folders
Something about it is just not right. Maybe the gray/white needs to be more transparent. Maybe it just needs to return to the iOS 6 animation (?), but keep the page scrolling so that the number of icons aren't limited.

Keep it scrolling? For what? There are classic dots to denote "more pages" just like previous versions of iOS.

Skeumorphic
If you are going to go against skeumorphic, does that mean you need to think about sounds too? Is the screen unlock sound something that needs to change? How does this effect other applications like Garageband?

Too early to judge. It is the first beta after all. Some sounds just don't work. And if they do work not for long.

----------

Hide completely, there is a cheat I am using to delete or hide them yet they return once the phone is turned off and on again which is rare. I understand there being an issue about deleting some stock apps yet there should at least be a way to hide game center, stocks, newsstand etc...


You can finally dump all of them into one folder. I doubt Apple will do better.
 
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