Jony Ive Remains 'Eager to Create' and 'Completely in Awe' About Creative Process

[ValueArb]

Actually I was surprised that my post got about 40 likes. I wonder why so many people agree with me.

Apple users are tired of the way overpriced, underperforming products Apple has been releasing.

They are so tired they've driven Apple sales to an all time high. Q4 revenues were $63B, their biggest Q4. 2018 revenues were two and half times higher than revenues in 2011, the year Jobs died.

Just look about what products Apple have been releasing lately. Just updating components wih Zero innovation.

• AirPods
Super smooth connecting technology and fast charge case. (their highest rated product ever)

• Apple Watch
Totally revamped Apple Watch 4 with much larger screens and innovative heart function monitoring and fall detection.

• iMac Pro
ECC Ram & T2 chip make it most secure PC in world. Also has workstation class CPUs, drives multiple 5K monitors, and offers the fastest SSD performance in the market.

• Retina & 5K Macs
The only computer maker whose entire lineup is entirely Retina, and the only one that offers 5K monitors as standard feature (and whose OS supports them seamlessly and can drive 5K external monitors without Frankenstein dual cable setups).

• iPhone X
Depth map detection and faceID that still hasn't been matched by any other Manufacturer.

• ARKit
Dynamic real time AR for iOS devices that works on almost all iOS devices (as old as the 6s).

• Computational photography
The A11 and A12 chips use computational photography to take the small amount of light that makes it into tiny mobile camera lenses, and enhance it to dramatically improve photo quality. It's also used to create dynamic features such as Bokeh in real time.

• T2 chip
It doesn't just drive meh features such as the TouchBar, it's substantially upgraded the security of every Mac it's been incorporated. But wait, there's more!
- It also encrypts internal SSDs in real-time, and makes enabling FileVault ( a process that used to take up to a day) instantaneously.
But wait, there's even more!
- It encodes H.265 video at speeds as much as 10x faster than Intel CPUs (more than twice as fast as fastest iMac Pro).

After 4 years, in the Mac mini, they updated the Price (by almost 70%) and the color. It is the same old box. What is even worse, most are non upgradable, since components soldered into the logic board.

The new Mac mini is a powerhouse, that's many times faster than the old one because it uses custom SSD/Memory controllers. Its SSD read performance is as fast as the top of the line iMac Pros. It's SSD write performance on the 1TB is slightly faster! Memory is user upgradable, and because it still has the same size high quality case, it can easily replace the old mini at hosting services. Finally, it has the T2 chip which means it has far better security, real time SSD encryption/FileVault, and encodes H.265 15x faster than the 2014 Mini.

The T2/SSD/Memory controllers aren't industry standard, you won't be able to swap them out for different ones, so Apple was smart enough to solder them in make the system more robust. That's why they are the highest rated PC maker in the world for quality. And the Mini includes plenty of Thunderbolt connectors/bandwidth, so if you really need a slow cheap SSD like the ones other PC makers use as their core components, Apple lets you add them externally.

iMac, same thing.

Crazy that Apple doesn't make the iMac case a foot thicker so you can buy an all-in one that is also expandable.

There are many other PC laptops, that are $800 and come with 16gb ram, 512 SSD, Core i7 and touchscreen. Although it might not be as innovative, at least they are fairly priced.

They also have slower memory controllers, slower SSD controllers, and slower SSDs. They don't have touchID, they don't have real time disk encryption, hardware video encoding/decoding acceleration. Lastly their build quality, design and components are lower quality. But at least they let you get fingerprints all over your screen!

Macbook airs they increased 20% the price for zero innovation and on top of that they ship with a 128SSD, I think is kind of insulting. Apple marketing technique is famous for shipping products with unusable configurations so they force you to upgrade and upcharge you for extra RAM and larger drives.

Lighter, thinner, retina screen, touchID, T2 security and real time encryption. And that's a fast SSD, not the cheap slow ones other pc makers foist on you. The 128Gb is an option for those who don't need storage (schools!). And if they raised the price to start with a fast 256Gb SSD, you'd likely complain about the higher price.

Look at the 2 latest quarters. Sales have been declining. Why do you think they will not be releasing anymore how many units are they selling?
Maybe you should listen to the conference calls on earning reports.

Q4 was up 20% year over year. 2018 revenues were about 15% higher than 2017.

They were the only one in their market segment to release unit numbers in their financial reports. No one else does it. Not Samsung, not Google, not Dell, not HP, not even Microsoft (surface). Their competitors loved Apple's quarterly leak of valuable competitive information. It told them exactly what Apple products were selling the best, what price points were working the best for Apple, etc.

Warren Buffett is a huge Apple shareholder. He's been excited to buy more lately since the market has started giving a discount. He hasn't said a peep about the change in disclosing unit sales, because he knows it doesn't matter. Revenues, margins and profits matter, long term competitive advantages matter. Unit sales won't grow as fast going forward, but depending upon the mix of services and devices, and device price points, revenues can still grow faster.

 

[RebelOU812]

News to us that Jony now decides what the product lines are.

He has the ears of those who do

 

[tromboneaholic]

Look at the 2 latest quarters. Sales have been declining. Why do you think they will not be releasing anymore how many units are they selling?
Maybe you should listen to the conference calls on earning reports.

Depends on which product. iPhone sales have been growing, but leveling off as the market becomes saturated.

You may be confusing the rate of growth slowing down versus an actual decline in sales.
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• iPhone X
Depth map detection and faceID that still hasn't been matched by any other Manufacturer.

Yet competitors copy the notch design even though they don't have the same tech in their notches.

 

[Bacillus]

You've got to come up with better lies than this. Your obvious bias is showing, and it's quite ugly.
Apple's Industrial Design team is a small group of ~22 people with hardly any turnover. Many of them have been working with Jony Ive since before Steve Jobs came back to Apple.
The industry is still copying everything Apple does. Apple competitors have even added notches to their phones just to look like an iPhone (even though the sensor array on the competitor phones doesn't have 1/2 the tech of Apple's notch).
I guess critical thinking can't be everyone's strong suit.
Here is Jony Ive and the team accepting an award at the British Design & Art Direction event:
View attachment 805639
Here is the team at an Apple Watch event with Jony next to star designer Marc Newson:
View attachment 805642
Instead of sharing uniformed drivel, I suggest you take a step back and ask yourself what is behind all of the uninformed negativity.

I am glad you can counter-argument some of my guesses (that’s what they were) but in addition to the regular event hoopla and celebrations, it is still questionable what caused stagnation in the iPhone 6...8/bigbezel iPad timeframe that coincides with minimal MacBook/iMac/MacPro design development (which is my main issue you seem to avoid)
I mean, even for the department shown (if those are all the designers that Apple has...) yields have been minimal in comparison with the years before.
Marc Newson, another worldwide known designer, hardly got anything on his name since being with Apple that I know of. I can understand that confidentiality to avoid leaking in pre-launch stages is now priority 1, but then again: larger announcements or design milestones lacked. Keynotes since Cook mostly provided small variations on the same design themes. Joni went into self-glorification mode, selling himself more than products. I just don’t understand the emphasis on ApplePark - or how customers benefited from that. All this lack of transparency and unfulfilled expectations leads to more projections that - with the lack of actual output over time - easily stirr negativity indeed. You’re right in that aspect, but still I am missing info that customers need and deserve, instead of the celebrations and self-glorification events that became a trademark themselves and have resulted in second thoughts because they are all placeholders of the instead-kind.
Ironically, the information that you provide - while interesting - is of that same category.

 

[tromboneaholic]

I just don’t understand the emphasis on ApplePark - or how customers benefited from that.

"Moving to Apple Park represents the coming together, at last, of these different areas of creative expertise that are incredibly diverse. I'm fairly confident that this has never happened before, to have industrial designers next to font designers, next to prototypers, next to haptic experts. The best haptic experts in the world are sat next to a bunch of guys who have PhDs in material science. To understand what the opportunities and the possibilities are for the future requires this collaboration."

-Jony Ive​

 

[I7guy]

He has the ears of those who do

Not the same as deciding.

 

[Bacillus]

"Moving to Apple Park represents the coming together, at last, of these different areas of creative expertise that are incredibly diverse. I'm fairly confident that this has never happened before, to have industrial designers next to font designers, next to prototypers, next to haptic experts. The best haptic experts in the world are sat next to a bunch of guys who have PhDs in material science. To understand what the opportunities and the possibilities are for the future requires this collaboration."

-Jony Ive​

This is terminology meant to elevate things fairly common in other companies (= vertical integration of competences) to mythical proportions.
That aim could have been achieved at countless other buildings - not at cost of 2/3 years of product design stagnation at the critical moment that bigbezel iPhone 6...8 became outpaced by bezelless designs from the competition. Amongst the other stagnation that I am eager to hear being explained by you. Note: Most other businesses let their employees work on internal projects in the evening - when commercial work is done. I'm fairly confident that Mr Ive also wasn’t made aware of that.

 

[BorderingOn]

In the past 10 years, we've seen the iPad go from its original iteration all the way to the latest Pro, which is quite a different beasts. And what about the Apple Watch? Or AirPods? Or in the services area, which is stronger than ever, and devices work together better than they ever have before? Saying there has been zero innovation in the past 10 years seems to mean you're ignoring loads of products.

In reality, how do you make designs such as the iMac better? Don't change the design of something for the sake of change, do it to make the device better.

The iMac? It’s much taller, wider, and thinner than it needs to be. It has no height adjustment. Maybe let me lay it down and draw on it. There are tons of opportunities to improve it in a variety of ways.
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For some it’s a jobb and career - something you’ve chosen to persue in life. For others it’s something that they don’t respect and think could be done by anybody; themself included.
I say this from experience as an industrial designer (junior, senior and currently manager level); there is far to many that don’t understand and respect the energy and skill behind the process and don’t hesitate to criticize the work and tell you how it should be done.

I’ve seen it at all my workplaces and constantly on MacRumors. The only solution that I’ve found is to let people follow along developments and let them create solutions and take crucial decisions - it’s a humbling experience for all-knowers, but a time consuming part for the designer.

I don’t think it’s fair for someone to criticize a process they don’t understand but in the end Apple is selling a product. As such I do think it’s fair to criticize a lack of balance between form and function.

 

[tromboneaholic]

This is terminology meant to elevate things fairly common in other companies (= vertical integration of competences) to mythical proportions.
That aim could have been achieved at countless other buildings - not at cost of 2/3 years of product design stagnation at the critical moment that bigbezel iPhone 6...8

You seem to forget iPhone X was introduced last year at the same time as iPhone 8.

These mythical companies you keep referencing, who excel at vertical integration, are tripping over each to emulate iPhone X and play catch up. The use processors designed by another company, and operating system designed by another company, and fill it with RAM and a huge battery in a vain attempt to address the complete lack of vertical integration they are based upon. That's why the iPhone often outperforms other flagships that are 1 or 2 years newer - flagships competitors can't sell and only the tech media cares about. The only phones Apple's competitors sell in any meaningful quantity are $200 commodity items.

Also, if you don't understand why Apple switched to a longer cycle between major design updates, you're not paying attention to the consumer upgrade cycle an the effect of the loss of telco subsidies. I think as talented as Apple's Industrial Design Department is, they aren't responsible for the telcos.

 

[Bacillus]

You seem to forget iPhone X was introduced last year at the same time as iPhone 8.
These mythical companies you keep referencing, who excel at vertical integration, are tripping over each to emulate iPhone X and play catch up. The use processors designed by another company, and operating system designed by another company, and fill it with RAM and a huge battery in a vain attempt to address the complete lack of vertical integration they are based upon. That's why the iPhone often outperforms other flagships that are 1 or 2 years newer - flagships competitors can't sell and only the tech media cares about. The only phones Apple's competitors sell in any meaningful quantity are $200 commodity items.
Also, if you don't understand why Apple switched to a longer cycle between major design updates, you're not paying attention to the consumer upgrade cycle an the effect of the loss of telco subsidies. I think as talented as Apple's Industrial Design Department is, they aren't responsible for the telcos.

Agree about Apple’s A9/10/11/12, those are top of the bill cpu’s - unmatched worldwide. Currently that is, and hopefully remains their core competency. However, they lost that pitch in other important area’s (and focus too much on being the next NetFlix, Bose, Google Maps, Pie medical.... etc.)
Sadly, design is one of that category and the hoopla Joni Ive brings in lately has become just distractive substitute, mostly.
His work does not depend on telco’s and could have annihilated their negative impact.
Even some el cheapo brands that you mention are taking the lead, designwise.
iPhone X closed that gap indeed, but temporarily and very shortly, as some are integrating camera’s more intelligently than in a notch besides offering in-screen touchID.
Apple’s longer upgrade cycles would enable, and do demand, more drastic design innovation.

 

[I7guy]

...as some are integrating camera’s more intelligently than in a notch besides offering in-screen touchID...

Like a pop up flash? I’d rather have the notch.

 

[Glockworkorange]

I already knew how this would go before finishing the article. He must get a good laugh when people keep saying such ridiculously rude things about him whist simultaneously making him a very wealthy man. These days the sheer ugliness of the MR mob is becoming somewhat obscene. A lot of nameless nobodies on an anonymous forum who have created nothing themselves hating on a man that has his designs in museums.

Come on. He’s super pretentious. I don’t think people are acting like a “mob” for pointing out some of the nonsensical things he says.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Come on. He’s super pretentious. I don’t think people are acting like a “mob” for pointing out some of the nonsensical things he says.

Ive discusses dense, complicated concepts in an accessible manner, which is one of the reasons he was recognized.

In other words, he's simplifying it, but it still sounds complex (or pretentious) to you.

Who's the one changing the world, Jony Ive or you?

 

[Glockworkorange]

Ive discusses dense, complicated concepts in an accessible manner, which is one of the reasons he was recognized.

In other words, he's simplifying it, but it still sounds complex (or pretentious) to you.

Who's the one changing the world, Jony Ive or you?

Donald Trump is changing the world as well, so i assume no criticism of him is warranted?

Your digs at my inability to understand “complex” things is kind of what you were railing against and I guess just another example of ******* behavior on these forums.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Donald Trump is changing the world as well, so i assume no criticism of him is warranted?

Your digs at my inability to understand “complex” things is kind of what you were railing against and I guess just another example of ******* behavior on these forums.

The reason Jony Ive was honored, prompting this article on MacRumors, is because he can express complex ideas in a simple form.

But you, on the other hand, were honored by MacRumors for mastering "*******"

 

[Glockworkorange]

The reason Jony Ive was honored, prompting this article on MacRumors, is because he can express complex ideas in a simple form.

But you, on the other hand, where honored by MacRumors for mastering "*******"

“Where” I honored?

Sure, pal.

 

[dilbert99]

The products are expensive but imo better than the competitors products. YMMV. I’m still using my iPhone 4 and could see using my 6s for 8 years.

You don’t speak for me here.

I get the impression that Apples user base could be changing. Like any company, Apple can increase the prices but decrease the unit sales and as long as the net sales increases shareholders will be happy but many customers could have moved on to lower priced competition.

Apples customers are obviously less price sensitive otherwise people like me would still not be buying a phone that has doubled in price in 6 years
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They are so tired they've driven Apple sales to an all time high. Q4 revenues were $63B, their biggest Q4. 2018 revenues were two and half times higher than revenues in 2011, the year Jobs died.

It is plain to see that Apples juggernaut still has steam. They have taken a dip recently.

• AirPods
Super smooth connecting technology and fast charge case. (their highest rated product ever)

Airpods are nice technically. Personally, I don't like the look of people wearing them yet.

• Apple Watch
Totally revamped Apple Watch 4 with much larger screens and innovative heart function monitoring and fall detection.

The heart function monitoring is not passive, requiring a user actively take a reading (EKG/Afib).
I would want Apple to be completely open about how accurate it is and what level the false positives are.
If Apple has millions of watch wearers, I would not be wanting already stretched healthcare systems swamped by false positives.
The Heart functions are also not for all users, such as not for the under 22s and not for some people with other heart conditions.
The absence of afib does not mean the person does not have afib and the active nature could lead people into a false sense of security.
But I do welcome any health initiatives but remain sceptical that Apple will be the provider long term.
If Apple truly wanted to make a difference long term they would be creating a device that was much cheaper. The tech that they have doesn't need to be packaged in to an expensive device
(I am an Apple watch wearer)

• iMac Pro
ECC Ram & T2 chip make it most secure PC in world. Also has workstation class CPUs, drives multiple 5K monitors, and offers the fastest SSD performance in the market.

The T2 chip and features that Apple are bringing out could also have a lot to do with Apple trying to stop third party repair companies.

• Retina & 5K Macs
The only computer maker whose entire lineup is entirely Retina, and the only one that offers 5K monitors as standard feature (and whose OS supports them seamlessly and can drive 5K external monitors without Frankenstein dual cable setups).

Nothing to be proud about. It just means their devices are more expensive.

• Computational photography
The A11 and A12 chips use computational photography to take the small amount of light that makes it into tiny mobile camera lenses, and enhance it to dramatically improve photo quality. It's also used to create dynamic features such as Bokeh in real time.

I didn't know that Apple was using computational power to increase the dynamic range, are you sure?
Also Bokeh is still a work in progress and a bit naf on a lot of photos.

Crazy that Apple doesn't make the iMac case a foot thicker so you can buy an all-in one that is also expandable.

I don't like iMacs anymore, I don't care to throw out/sell a monitor that still has a lot of life left.
Apple could easily come up with a monitor design that has a mac mini style box on the vesa mount

ones other pc makers foist on you. The 128Gb is an option for those who don't need storage (schools!). And if they raised the price to start with a fast 256Gb SSD, you'd likely complain about the higher price.

It sucks that Apple solders the SSD. Such a crass move
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That's part of the success of the industrial design team. They kept the design language consistent, despite the different challenges and requirements over various generations.

I think the language is completely different over the years with nothing consistent. I don't care for the iPhone 6 design.
At the end of the day, iPhones have breakable screens and for a lot of users they are in a case so aesthetically most phones all look the same in a case.

They sweat little details and solve problems that the end user doesn't even notice.

I wished they sweated a lot less with decisions that really matter like removing ports, headphone jacks, soldering ram and ssd, the list is endless.

This is just one form of success for an industrial designer - solving a problem so that it recedes into the background and the end user doesn't even have to think about it.

A lot of Apple's design may seem obvious, but it's only so in hindsight. That's why it's usually easier for their competitors to copy them instead of creating original solutions.

I don't rate jony ive's skills. But what do I know, I'm not a designer.
I think their best looking product was the macbooks over the last few years.

 

[tromboneaholic]

I don't rate jony ive's skills. But what do I know, I'm not a designer.

Noted, as the majority of your post wan't actually about industrial design, but I don't think it takes a designer to appreciate Apple hardware's ease of use.

 

[dilbert99]

Noted, as the majority of your post wan't actually about industrial design, but I don't think it takes a designer to appreciate Apple hardware's ease of use.

Can you tell me how i forward my phone to a number in my phonebook?
And where is the undo button?

 

[XtremeArtists]

Can you tell me how i forward my phone to a number in my phonebook?
And where is the undo button?

Isn't the reason call forwarding a bit of a mess caused by GSM vs CDMA network differences?

I don't know which app you need to undo in. Apps can have an undo/redo button, or they can allow people to shake the device to undo and redo.

 

[dilbert99]

Isn't the reason call forwarding a bit of a mess caused by GSM vs CDMA network differences?

I can forward calls, but I have to type in the number myself, I can't choose an entry from the phonebook because Apple hasn't implemented it.

I don't know which app you need to undo in. Apps can have an undo/redo button, or they can allow people to shake the device to undo and redo.

Any app. Apple provides the keyboard but there is no undo.
Shake is hardly obvious.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Any app. Apple provides the keyboard but there is no undo.
Shake is hardly obvious.

Apple's user interface guidelines do allow developers to put an undo button in their apps, or use the system default shake to undo. Some apps have a counterclockwise arrow button for undo.

To be fair, shake to undo has been the default undo since iPhone OS 3, before Jony Ive was overseeing software UI.

 

[I7guy]

I get the impression that Apples user base could be changing. Like any company, Apple can increase the prices but decrease the unit sales and as long as the net sales increases shareholders will be happy but many customers could have moved on to lower priced competition.

Apples customers are obviously less price sensitive otherwise people like me would still not be buying a phone that has doubled in price in 6 years

You are not correct on this at least in the US. The iphone 5 when released was $399 on contract for 64GB. That's on contract. Probably $799 off contract. That is not doubling in 6 years. In fact 6 years later based on my estimated $799, the price of a Xs max seems reasonable.

The heart function monitoring is not passive, requiring a user actively take a reading (EKG/Afib).
I would want Apple to be completely open about how accurate it is and what level the false positives are.
If Apple has millions of watch wearers, I would not be wanting already stretched healthcare systems swamped by false positives.
The Heart functions are also not for all users, such as not for the under 22s and not for some people with other heart conditions.
The absence of afib does not mean the person does not have afib and the active nature could lead people into a false sense of security.
But I do welcome any health initiatives but remain sceptical that Apple will be the provider long term.
If Apple truly wanted to make a difference long term they would be creating a device that was much cheaper. The tech that they have doesn't need to be packaged in to an expensive device
(I am an Apple watch wearer)

Apple will quote a percentage, but this is not meant to replace medical care. It's an assist to notify the user when the watch detects some abnormality. It won't be perfect and there will be some backlash as the watch failed to catch the inevitable cases that the wearer did unfortunately suffer.

 

[tromboneaholic]

You are not correct on this at least in the US. The iphone 5 when released was $399 on contract for 64GB. That's on contract. Probably $799 off contract. That is not doubling in 6 years. In fact 6 years later based on my estimated $799, the price of a Xs max seems reasonable.

The 64 GB model of the iPhone 5 in 2012 was $849.

 

[I7guy]

The 64 GB model of the iPhone 5 in 2012 was $849.

Thanks for making the point. The Xr is $749 6 years later. I don't think there is anything more to say about apple doubling the price of their phones. Simply not true, except if one is comparing on-contract price to off-contract pricing.