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Jony Ive Said to Be 'As Connected to Product Design as Ever' Following Speculation About His Role

flat five said:
fwiw, i don't use any ports on my laptop other than power..
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...guess what: other people do.


flat five said:
there isn't one style port because t.cook walked into the design studio and said "we need to find a way to make a few extra bucks off our users so let's only use one style port and sell them dongles.. muahhahaha"
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...and you know this for sure because...? I doubt it was that simplistic, but it would be very, very surprising if Apple didn't consider things like the effect on accessory sales when weighing up design options - they're in it for the money, and like any retail business, add-ons, accessories, extended warranties and credit form a vital part of their business model.

However, the other strong suspicion is that it was a non-negotiable edict to make the new machines thinner and lighter than their predecessors, which ruled out retaining any so-called "legacy" ports.
 
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flat five said:
fwiw, i don't use any ports on my laptop other than power.. all wireless and have been for a couple of years now.. actually went from a 2010 mbp to a 2013 a bit earlier than normal simply for the updated wifi.. (and moving to a quad had something to do with it too)

regarding thinness -- my daughter uses the 2010 now and when i see it, it's chunky.. i didn't buy the 2013 for it's thinness but now when comparing to my old laptop, i certainly appreciate it.. and i wouldn't mind something even smaller/lighter (i may be in a minority here but i carry(backpack) a laptop 3.5miles 6 days a week.).. lighter, while maintaining ergonomics (keyboard, display,trackpad size) to coincide with my body is something i'll be basing future buys off of.. and something i personally like about these new mbps is they're maintaining the 15" screen, offering larger keys, and larger trackpads.. it's not like they're just shrinking everything.. the parts i actually interact with using my body are either maintaining size or becoming larger.


i don't.. but i do think it has a lot going for it over past plugs.
• it's small enough to be used on phones (and wouldn't be too surprised to see it replacing lightning though i do think we may see the removal of all ports from the iPhone prior to lightning being replaced by usb-c)
• there isn't an up or down orientation for the plug so it's very easy to use.. micro-usb is about the worst thing out there regarding this.. USB is pretty bad.. miniDisplayport(thunderbolt) isn't much better and not very secure seeming.. the act of plugging in usb-c and the secureness once it's plugged in is very similar to lightning which, imo, is pretty great.
• it's not an apple proprietary connector.. idk, for as much complaining there has been regarding apple's switch to thunderbolt and its proprietary nature, i don't think there's near as much praise(?) from them ditching it for something that has a much better chance at being a universally used standard.
• it seems to be able to do anything needed in personal computer world so i don't see much more exploration in the realm of implementing yet another plug.. i understand why the move to usb-c is sought.. currently, i don't see a case why they would want something else besides a universal and fully capable plug.

so again, i don't positively think usb-c is here to stay for the rest of the plug-in era.. but i do think it has a pretty good chance at doing so.


it's completely relevant to the point i was trying to make.
that being, this is most likely the reason we see a single style port on the mbp.. the designers felt it was the purest approach and 'best' design choice.. so they implemented it.

there isn't one style port because t.cook walked into the design studio and said "we need to find a way to make a few extra bucks off our users so let's only use one style port and sell them dongles.. muahhahaha"

whether or not you like what they've done is another story.. and you're arguing why you think it's a bad idea etc.. and that's fine.. i happen to agree with the choice, you don't.. cool.. i'm not arguing you about this.

my point was that i feel people should try to understand why the decisions were made instead of resorting to --> "GREED!!!" or "they don't care about MEEE :(" or "they're out of touch!!!" etc...
because those aren't the reasons why there's only one style port.
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fwiw, skeuomorphism and flatness aren't opposites of each other.. they're not really even related to one another.

in Sierra, we still have skeuomorphic designs but they are now flat instead of that 3D looking stuff.

the calculator for instance-- it's still skeuomorphism because it looks just like a physical calculator.. it's not necessary for the calculator to look like this on a computer but it does because it's taking design cues from a previous object.

flatness is just removing all those highlights and whatnot from buttons which made it look like the buttons had a depth to them.. from a design pov, it's a fake and unnecessary effect that, while cool/wow-factor when computer graphics first gained the ability to do things like that, it's now known to be without purpose and basically tacky.
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It's more the textures rather than the objects. Skeuomorphism does exist, just not for the most part in the textures. Call and hang up button displays a stylized phone handle as you notes the calculator oooks like a calculator.
 
theluggage said:
...guess what: other people do.
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do you really think i don't know that? seems like you're looking for a fight where one doesn't exist.

i mentioned that simply to help clarify the perspective i'm speaking from.. take it or leave it.


...and you know this for sure because...? I doubt it was that simplistic, but it would be very, very surprising if Apple didn't consider things like the effect on accessory sales when weighing up design options - they're in it for the money, and like any retail business, add-ons, accessories, extended warranties and credit form a vital part of their business model.
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it doesn't make sense because if their consideration was for accessory sales then the businesses who are going to benefit most are not apple.. it's companies such as Griffen and Belkin etc who will likely be selling most of the adapters..
if apple made it in such a way that you had to use only apple made products as adapters then yeah, i think the greed type argument has much stronger ground.. but this isn't the case.. usb-c isn't an apple controlled standard nor are the various adapters a user may need.. not only will a user be able to use usb-c interchangeably amongst apple products, they'll be able to use them interchangeable amongst other manufactures/platforms.

However, the other strong suspicion is that it was a non-negotiable edict to make the new machines thinner and lighter than their predecessors, which ruled out retaining any so-called "legacy" ports.
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idk, it seems like you're going out of your way to come up with convoluted scenarios as to why the ports have been unified while purposely avoiding the most simple and obvious (and most likely) explanation.
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I7guy said:
It's more the textures rather than the objects. Skeuomorphism does exist, just not for the most part in the textures. Call and hang up button displays a stylized phone handle as you notes the calculator oooks like a calculator.
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heh, yeah, the textures and whatnot are (imo) kitschy/tacky.

i mean, if i see some furniture made out of particle board with a fake wood veneer, i'm definitely not thinking "oh, wow.. that's a nice piece of furniture.. great craftsmanship"... and this same feeling is only worsened when i see fake leather/wood/metal in my UI on a computer.. that's even faker than the real world fake leather ;)

[edit] ok, maybe not 'worsened'.. but similar feeling nonetheless [/edit]
 
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Guys do you remember how often Steve Jobs would finish off with "theres just one more thing"

Like, we would get that almost every year. Something brand new. A drastic redesign, new product or something ******* awesome.

Now it seems that we will hear this line only once per decade. The last time was with the watch.

I feel Steve was pushing innovation alot harder.
 
Hey Jony….. your designs are so thin, someone get them a cheeseburger!
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Ramius said:
Guys do you remember how often Steve Jobs would finish off with "theres just one more thing"

Like, we would get that almost every year. Something brand new. A drastic redesign, new product or something ******* awesome.

Now it seems that we will hear this line only once per decade. The last time was with the watch.

I feel Steve was pushing innovation alot harder.
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One more thing is impossible because Apple can no longer guard its secrets. There is no longer the ability to surprise.

Thanks to the secret-spilling abilities of MacRumors and the Chinese suppliers.
 
rp2011 said:
I completely agree about the position of the camera. It just feels so wrong not being on center of the radius.
I work in interior design and when you walk into a room it all has to feel like it all belongs. When things like the antenna lines where they are, the out of center camera with tacky ring it makes something as simple and beautiful as the basic geometry look ugly. Which seems hard to do. But Apple certainly did it! It seems impossible but they did. And coupled with their chintzy color offerings for those models without a basic black or jet black.
The new Google Pixel is also a design nightmare. Again how can you screw up a basic geometric shape?
And Samsung got it right with their non explosive Galaxy Phones. ..design wise.

But I for one love the little changes in the 7. I own the 7 Plus in black and I admire the hardware as much as I do my iPhone SE. Something I can't say about the 6 series which I completely skipped over.
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Yes. I guess "on center with the radius" is the correct term. Pardon my bad choice of words. Hahaha
 
Ramius said:
Guys do you remember how often Steve Jobs would finish off with "theres just one more thing"

Like, we would get that almost every year. Something brand new. A drastic redesign, new product or something ******* awesome.

Now it seems that we will hear this line only once per decade. The last time was with the watch.

I feel Steve was pushing innovation alot harder.
Click to expand...

That's because Steve believed in making great products . As he says "Our job is to figure out what customers want before they do". Tim Cook is just after the bottom line taking profits any way they come . Just another Steve Ballmer
 
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MacRumors said:
Rumors of Ive being "on his way out" of Apple have existed for a while, however, going back to his promotion to chief design officer last year. The position was described as allowing Ive to focus less on management and more on design, or as Gruber said, "the skeptic's take is that this new arrangement allows Ive to be less involved, period."
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Ive wanted to come back to home to the UK not long ago, I wouldn't be surprised if he were taking a step back and hopefully be preparing his successor. To say he has already stepped back in full would be nonsense as it is clear as day his designs are at the forefront of Apple, thinner, less features and more expensive. Fantastic Ive work.
 
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Pdp9eGc.jpg
 
Zedcars said:
Plenty more left to give.
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On a light note, plenty more to take, rather. Those laptops are still half an inch thin, that is half an inch more to take. There is still one port on the MacBook, that is one port to take. And call all this taking as giving. :p Just a joke. The guy really has a ballsy sense of design and Steve was the one who let him have at it. I can't imagine HP being so ballsy to go ahead and "shape" a future for the people.

Apple has tried to give people what Apple wants them to want. Others have always given people what people have asked from them.
 
flat five said:
flatness is just removing all those highlights and whatnot from buttons which made it look like the buttons had a depth to them.. from a design pov, it's a fake and unnecessary effect that, while cool/wow-factor when computer graphics first gained the ability to do things like that, it's now known to be without purpose
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It's not "unnecessary" and "without purpose". Those effects help users tell the difference between a UI element that can be interacted with, for example, versus a text label. It can also be used to good effect to allow users to associate functions with something they may be familiar with in the real world. Flat, square boxes evoke no such association with most people, nor do text label that are supposed to be buttons. If you take a non-technical person who has never used or seen an iPhone before and hand them one with iOS6 and iOS7 which do you imagine would be easier for that person to learn?
and basically tacky.
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This is merely a matter of taste and current fashion which, as Oscar Wilde delightfully pointed out, "is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.” I suspect that skeumorphism, much like the Terminator, will be back.
 
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Adam Warlock said:
It's not "unnecessary" and "without purpose". Those effects help users tell the difference between a UI element that can be interacted with, for example, versus a text label.
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i think you might have to be more specific.. sounds like you're talking theoretically without any examples to back-up/clarify what you mean.. can you give an example of a past UI element that you were able to easily use vs a newer element that confused you or you were unable to figure out?

It can also be used to good effect to allow users to associate functions with something they may be familiar with in the real world. Flat, square boxes evoke no such association with most people, nor do text label that are supposed to be buttons. If you take a non-technical person who has never used or seen an iPhone before and hand them one with iOS6 and iOS7 which do you imagine would be easier for that person to learn?
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do you go around to retirement homes and introduce 80 year olds to computers for the first time? because if so, then these are good points.. and they were good points in past decades for the general population as a whole.. but nowadays, most people are completely familiar with computers.. they're not 'scared' of them anymore.. further, many people are more familiar with computers than the 'real world' counterparts.. especially if you're under the age of, say, 20.. most of them have never even used a telephone as seen in the the 80s.. these days, if you're under the age of ~45, computers have been a normal part of your life for at least half your life.. these visual cues to past or overlapping technologies are no longer necessary.. they aren't helping someone familiarize with computing because most people are already familiarized.. the past technologies are now completely replaced.. the overlapping technologies are close behind.



This is merely a matter of taste and current fashion which, as Oscar Wilde delightfully pointed out, "is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.” I suspect that skeumorphism, much like the Terminator, will be back.
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sorry, it's not simply a matter of taste.. it's a matter of moving forward vs being stuck in the past.

(as an aside, skeumorphism is still here.. you can't just use it interchangeably with 'flatness' or 'realism'.. these are different things)

but if you think 3D/realism is coming back to computer UI with elements that are in fact flat then i don't think you're very forward thinking..we're on the verge of having UIs that we can interact with in 3 dimensions.. up until now, it's all been 2 dimensional but it's not going to be this way for much longer.. if your suspicion is correct, we'll soon have computer UIs which have 3D looking objects that you can only interact with in a 2 dimensional way.. and we'll also have 3D looking objects that we can interact with in a 3 dimensional fashion..

to me at least, that sounds pretty confusing.. i think if an object appears 3 dimensional then we should be able to use it 3 dimensionally.. spin it or go through it or behind it etc.. if an element has only a 2 dimensional interaction then it should appear as such.. flat.. because that's what it is.. flat.
 
Does anyone outside geekdom know any two designers so intrinsically linked (and world famous) to their companies as Jonathan Ive and Shigeru Minamoto. They'll both never really leave their respective companies even when they "retire"
 
deckard666 said:
Does anyone outside geekdom know any two designers so intrinsically linked (and world famous) to their companies as Jonathan Ive and Shigeru Minamoto. They'll both never really leave their respective companies even when they "retire"
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I think relatively few consumers would know who either of those are. But as far as designers who are associated with a company, I'd add:

Dieter Rams and Braun.

Harley Earl and GM.

Any others?
 
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Essaux said:
Whenever I see pictures or videos of Jony Ive, I actually can't believe he is a human being. He looks and talks like an android and he designs like one too.
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Hey, at least he doesn't wear velour jump suits any more:

jon_ive.png


What I'll miss if he leaves, are those videos where he makes commonly used industrial methods sound amazing. Like that one about making cases for the Apple Watch, which is the same method used for millions of other watch cases. Or the trashcan Mac case, which is the same extrusion method used to make millions of cooking pots.

And, of course, as an American, I'd miss the lovely British "aluminium" pronunciation :)
 
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wigby said:
I suppose you'd have to sit down with all billion and ask them individually but I'd believe the top customer ratings year after year and my own opinions over forum comments.
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You're right. Top consumer rating are nothing but irrelevant unless each individual said why they chose what they did, choosing between they legitimately like what they have or like it only because it's an Apple product.
 
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