Jony Ive Says Holding Onto Features When There's a 'Better Way' is 'Path That Leads to Failure'

[roderickv]

Jony can say whatever he wants to, but here is the reality: I have been an Apple enthusiast for about 12 yrs now. I am embarrassed by how many Apple products I have now and have owned over the years, and as a technology consultant I have directly influenced about 27 individuals and 2 companies to move to Apple products. And while I really love my 10.5" iPad Pro (and Apple pencil) I bought this summer, they may be the last Apple purchases for me. Apple's design decisions to remove things in both the software and hardware that actually makes it more difficult for us to use our devices is just plain dumb! And for me, removing the headphone jack on the iPhone and replacing the ports on the Mac Book Pro with all USB C ports stopped me from purchasing new devices in both those categories. Not sure what I'll do when my 2015 MBP dies, but after owning an iPhone since the first one was released I now have a OnePlus 5 running Android. My first ever non iPhone since they were released. What's worse - I can no longer strongly recommend Apple products to my clients and friends. So I guess Jony is right - after a time... we do learn to adapt.

 

[amegicfox]

no ports, flat wooden keyboards, no headphone jacks, camera warts, charging mouse at the bottom, Mac Pro without space for cards and hard drives, Mac mini with soldered ram (while the previous model with exactly same form had it replaceable) iMac with soldered RAM and 5,200rpm hard drives, pencil with male plugs, macbook with less battery and the list goes on and on

Ive your time and Tim Cuck time has been over since Steve passed.

You should both go home and leave someone competent and talented run Apple, that's it.

 

[I7guy]

Jony can say whatever he wants to, but here is the reality: I have been an Apple enthusiast for about 12 yrs now. I am embarrassed by how many Apple products I have now and have owned over the years, and as a technology consultant I have directly influenced about 27 individuals and 2 companies to move to Apple products. And while I really love my 10.5" iPad Pro (and Apple pencil) I bought this summer, they may be the last Apple purchases for me. Apple's design decisions to remove things in both the software and hardware that actually makes it more difficult for us to use our devices is just plain dumb! And for me, removing the headphone jack on the iPhone and replacing the ports on the Mac Book Pro with all USB C ports stopped me from purchasing new devices in both those categories. Not sure what I'll do when my 2015 MBP dies, but after owning an iPhone since the first one was released I now have a OnePlus 5 running Android. My first ever non iPhone since they were released. What's worse - I can no longer strongly recommend Apple products to my clients and friends. So I guess Jony is right - after a time... we do learn to adapt.

Here's another reality. For a long time I disliked apple products for various reasons. Then my blackberry died along with the company. I got an iphone. Now the entire family has iphones, three macbooks, 2 ipads and an apple tv. And I'm replacing my 6s with an 8+ or X. I know these devices will still be viable in 5 years and can get sold at a reasonable price. I have also influenced a number of people in apples direction. To each their own; their is no right or wrong here, only your own use case.

 

[Abazigal]

Jony can say whatever he wants to, but here is the reality: I have been an Apple enthusiast for about 12 yrs now. I am embarrassed by how many Apple products I have now and have owned over the years, and as a technology consultant I have directly influenced about 27 individuals and 2 companies to move to Apple products. And while I really love my 10.5" iPad Pro (and Apple pencil) I bought this summer, they may be the last Apple purchases for me. Apple's design decisions to remove things in both the software and hardware that actually makes it more difficult for us to use our devices is just plain dumb! And for me, removing the headphone jack on the iPhone and replacing the ports on the Mac Book Pro with all USB C ports stopped me from purchasing new devices in both those categories. Not sure what I'll do when my 2015 MBP dies, but after owning an iPhone since the first one was released I now have a OnePlus 5 running Android. My first ever non iPhone since they were released. What's worse - I can no longer strongly recommend Apple products to my clients and friends. So I guess Jony is right - after a time... we do learn to adapt.

While last year, I bought the iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Airpods and Apple Watch. And the 5k iMac and iPhone 8+ this year.

I happen to like Apple’s new direction - making technology more personal for me.

Different strokes for different users. Sure, with Apple’s new direction, some users are going to benefit more than others, but I wouldn’t necessarily see it as Apple losing their way.

 

[AsherN]

If you want to use wired headphones with your iPhone 7 and beyond. No, they don't think you should. They think you should embrace all that is bluetooth and it's wireless benefits. Yet, think of you, they included a perfectly adequate solution that you can't seem to wrap your mind around. Instead you continue to bang your head against a wall and bore us with your endless rants about how there's no headphone jack when actually there is. Just not like the one you're used to. Plug in the included adapter. Coil it up in your tangled mess of cord and put in your pocket and worry about something far more noble.

I don't carry headphones with me. I have 3 pairs. One at home, one in the office and one in my travel bag. So that's 3 dongles. I've found myself in situations where I needed a pair and did not have one with me. Just pop in to any store and get a cheap pair. it's been debated to death, but the removal of an industry standard connector was just plain dumb.
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Ok cool, but the screen real estate is 1cm more, it's laughable. They tried to be revolutionary, but that notch tho...

The notch, by itself, is not a bad design decision. I think the flaw was to enable apps to access the "ears". Those areas should have been only accessible to the OS for system display.

 

[Naimfan]

The problem, of course, is that there was not a "better way" forward with respect to much of what Apple has done, particularly with the MBP. It was, and remains, stupid to move laptops to USB-C only. The better way would be to have two USB-A and 2 USB-C ports. Likewise on making it thinner with a smaller battery and an absurdly oversized trackpad that actively interferes with work, to say nothing of using a keyboard guaranteed to fail if subjected to too much heat or, god forbid, any dust.

Similarly, removing Magsafe was stupid - for the end user. But I bet it helped prop up the margins!

As was removing the headphone jack from the iPhone. Believe it or not, there are millions of people who use it daily - and who need to be able to charge their phone at the same time - without buying a ludicrous dongle/adapter.

Oh well. iPhone 6S and 2015 15" MBP it is.

I frankly dread what the new Mac Pro will be . . .

 

[AnnonKneeMoosee]

Yesterday I tripped over the power cord to my 2012 MacBook Air. Sure glad I still had that old fashioned MagSafe feature instead of Apple's Latest and Greatest, New and Improved, one-size-fits-all plug.

As for the headphone jack, it was already proven Apple removed that solely for profit. There's plenty of room, and it can be made 100% waterproof.

Sorry Jony, a whole lot of us Apple customers are much too smart to fall for your b.s.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yesterday I tripped over the power cord to my 2012 MacBook Air. Sure glad I still had that old fashioned MagSafe feature instead of Apple's Latest and Greatest, New and Improved, one-size-fits-all plug.

As for the headphone jack, it was already proven Apple removed that solely for profit. There's plenty of room, and it can be made 100% waterproof.

Sorry Jony, a whole lot of us Apple customers are much too smart to fall for your b.s.

What does Ive have to do with removal of MagSafe or the headphone jack?

 

[Jefe's MacAir]

I don't carry headphones with me. I have 3 pairs. One at home, one in the office and one in my travel bag. So that's 3 dongles. I've found myself in situations where I needed a pair and did not have one with me. Just pop in to any store and get a cheap pair. it's been debated to death, but the removal of an industry standard connector was just plain dumb.
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I found your solution.

 

[Annonymoose]

Jony can say whatever he wants to, but here is the reality: I have been an Apple enthusiast for about 12 yrs now. I am embarrassed by how many Apple products I have now and have owned over the years, and as a technology consultant I have directly influenced about 27 individuals and 2 companies to move to Apple products. And while I really love my 10.5" iPad Pro (and Apple pencil) I bought this summer, they may be the last Apple purchases for me. Apple's design decisions to remove things in both the software and hardware that actually makes it more difficult for us to use our devices is just plain dumb! And for me, removing the headphone jack on the iPhone and replacing the ports on the Mac Book Pro with all USB C ports stopped me from purchasing new devices in both those categories. Not sure what I'll do when my 2015 MBP dies, but after owning an iPhone since the first one was released I now have a OnePlus 5 running Android. My first ever non iPhone since they were released. What's worse - I can no longer strongly recommend Apple products to my clients and friends. So I guess Jony is right - after a time... we do learn to adapt.

So many people feel just like this. Why does it always seem that soon after the founder dies, the company s/he founded starts to unravel? Profit takes precedence over all else, particularly innovation and quality. Once loyal customers turn their backs. The irony being that instead of boosting profits, the bean counters and marketing department turn a once proud company into a mere shadow of its former self. So sad.
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What does Ive have to do with removal of MagSafe or the headphone jack?

I presume you either didn't read the article, or you didn't appreciate the true meaning of Ive's comment.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I presume you either didn't read the article, or you didn't appreciate the true meaning of Ive's comment.

You presume incorrectly. OP blamed Ive for the removal of MagSafe and the headphone jack. Which is ridiculous.

Those were marketing/engineering decisions. Ive doesn’t write the product specifications, nor does he dictate the feature set.

Same with battery size. Marketing defines how many hours they want the battery to last, engineering determines the capacity in mAH required, and Ive designs a package that will fit everything in.

Some seem to think the process starts with Ive declaring, “this new computer shall be 5mm thinner, make it so!”, and then engineering starts cutting down the battery and removing ports in an effort to comply.

 

[Annonymoose]

OP blamed Ive for the removal of MagSafe and the headphone jack. Which is ridiculous.

I'd agree with you only if you were right.

Ive works closely with design/engineering groups at Apple. He is intimately involved with such decisions.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I'd agree with you only if you were right.

Ive works closely with design/engineering groups at Apple. He is intimately involved with such decisions.

I’m not looking for your agreement, it’s not relevant to the discussion.

Product development is a hugely collaborative process. Many people are “intimately involved” but why would you think Ive makes the engineering decisions?

He doesn’t tell them what ports to add or subtract, and they don’t tell him what color to make the watch dot lol.

 

[Annonymoose]

It’s a hugely collaborative process. Many people are “intimately involved” but why would you think Ive makes the engineering decisions?

He doesn’t tell them what ports to add or subtract, and they don’t tell him what color to make the watch dot lol.

Considering all the similar comments made on this thread and others, you seem to be in the minority. But I'm sure Jony and the crew at Apple appreciate all those doting fanboys out there who come to their defense no matter how indefensible their decisions.

Have a nice day!

 

[PickUrPoison]

Considering all the similar comments made on this thread and others, you seem to be in the minority. But I'm sure Jony and the crew at Apple appreciate all those doting fanboys out there who come to their defense no matter how indefensible their decisions.

Have a nice day!

If you had product development experience, you wouldn’t be so confused about who is responsible for what.

 

[Annonymoose]

If you had product development experience, you wouldn’t be so confused about who is responsible for what.

Now we're getting somewhere. You think you're an expert because you have a little product development experience.

You're so cute I wish I had a camera.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Now we're getting somewhere. You think you're an expert because you have a little product development experience.

You're so cute I wish I had a camera.

No, we’re not getting anywhere because your Ive hate has clouded your thinking. You are unable to think logically or have an intelligent discussion.

 

[Annonymoose]

No, we’re not getting anywhere because your Ive hate has clouded your thinking. You are unable to think logically or have an intelligent discussion.

Calm down, sonny. When you get a little older you'll begin to understand how things work in the real world.

In the meantime, please keep replying to whatever I write. I'm having a blast yanking your chain!

 

[PickUrPoison]

Calm down, sonny. When you get a little older you'll begin to understand how things work in the real world.

In the meantime, please keep replying to whatever I write. I'm having a blast yanking your chain!

As I said, you’re unable to have an intelligent discussion.

 

[iMi]

Apple PR machine out in full force today. Wonder if the waning sales of the iPhone X are a cause.

That's what I am thinking as well. Time magazine is a joke. Sorry... but these "articles" are just click bait. If Apple polished a turd, they would have made it one of the "best inventions" of 2017. Oooooo, so shiny and pretty.

Here's how the selection was made:

Time: iPhone is the most innovative product of 2017 because it has this new thing called "FaceID." Amazing. Incredible.
Everyone: Well, Microsoft has already done it like two years ago.
Time: Well, it has this amazing OLED display!
Everyone: Samsung has been doing it for years...
Time: Nonsense, edge-to-edge display!
Everyone: That must be it. Let me look this up on last year's Galaxy S6 Edge. Oh, snap...
Time: But it's waterproof. That's insanely innovative.
Everyone: Sony has done it. Like fiver years ago. Oh, and iPhone 7... or 8... or any Samsung phone.
Time: Well, **** you. I already wrote the article and will not be changing it. Now if you excuse me, I have to take this call from Tim Cook.

 

[Abazigal]

That's what I am thinking as well. Time magazine is a joke. Sorry... but these "articles" are just click bait. If Apple polished a turd, they would have made it one of the "best inventions" of 2017. Oooooo, so shiny and pretty.

Here's how the selection was made:

Time: iPhone is the most innovative product of 2017 because it has this new thing called "FaceID." Amazing. Incredible.
Everyone: Well, Microsoft has already done it like two years ago.
Time: Well, it has this amazing OLED display!
Everyone: Samsung has been doing it for years...
Time: Nonsense, edge-to-edge display!
Everyone: That must be it. Let me look this up on last year's Galaxy S6 Edge. Oh, snap...
Time: But it's waterproof. That's insanely innovative.
Everyone: Sony has done it. Like fiver years ago. Oh, and iPhone 7... or 8... or any Samsung phone.
Time: Well, **** you. I already wrote the article and will not be changing it. Now if you excuse me, I have to take this call from Tim Cook.

Now find me this mythical company who has done everything Apple has done in one single product, and just as well.

 

[Annonymoose]

Now find me this mythical company who has done everything Apple has done in one single product, and just as well.

Quite true. Now if we could just somehow convince Apple to stop taking away the things we love, like my 17" MacBook Pro, iPhone headphone jack, MagSafe, lots of USB ports, great MacBook keyboard, etc, etc, etc.

I think Jony Ive has secretly been using Microshaft Windows, with their goofy idea that any change is always good.

 

[Abazigal]

Quite true. Now if we could just somehow convince Apple to stop taking away the things we love, like my 17" MacBook Pro, iPhone headphone jack, MagSafe, lots of USB ports, etc, etc.

When one door closes, another one opens. As a hardware company, Apple has no incentive to screw over their user base in such a manner, and no, I don't think they aren't doing this to profit off the sales of adaptors.

The lesson Apple keeps teaching and others keep ignoring is; to create true meaningful change in a market you need to force change. By taking bold unapologetic stances. Here’s a touchscreen smart phone without the familiarity of a physical Qwerty keyboard. Here’s a large screen tablet without a desktop OS and desktop apps and file system. Here’s a smart phone without a headphone jack. Here's a laptop with only USB-C ports.

You can see the absence of MagSafe not as the loss of a charging port, but the addition of an extra port which you can use for whatever you need when you aren't charging your laptop. Likewise, with adaptors and docks, it's quite possible to make do with only 1-2 USB-C ports. Apple is essentially telegraphing to the entire world - we are going all-in on USB-C on our Macs and it's about time you did so as well.

And if Apple has to drag us into the future, screaming and kicking, then so be it.

 

[Porco]

When one door closes, another one opens.

When two doors were open, you didn’t need to think about a closed door.

 

[iMi]

Now find me this mythical company who has done everything Apple has done in one single product, and just as well.

The award was for “innovation” and not for how well Apple executed on building a great phone that makes use of existing ideas. They do it well, there is no argument there. Apple makes great products, which is why I buy them, but they are not as innovative as they would like for us to think.

It’s not a bad thing. Innovation, true innovation, is risky. Apple, on the other hand, has had very few failed products in its history. I think that’s a good thing.