Jony Ive's LoveFrom Designs Award for Companies With Sustainable Practices

[Chrjy]

Then your first sentence is sufficient. There was no need for there rest of your post.
Ive gets far more credit than he is worth and that is a reflection on our society. He brought a little to the table after that it was a lot of resting on laurels and general gushing.

The first sentence was relevant to trying to debate Jony Ive. The rest was related to appreciating opinion.

'He brought a little to the table after that it was a lot of resting on laurels and general gushing'
Seriously?! I don't think I know how to respond to this but I'll try.
I'm guessing you're pretty clued up on Apple's history bearing in mind the time you joined MacRumors so what you say surprises me. If you think in terms of the Bondi iMac and the 5 products that came after that, he was pivotal to these products.
Yes he lost his way once Jobs wasn't around any longer but in the early days he designs were pretty astonishing. No other company within the industry was thinking about those types of designs at the time and between him and Jobs, they took it to a whole new level.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Good luck to you re the new M1 16", I really don't think you can go wrong with that machine. It's like a blast from the past but only better. I'm not jealous at all!!!!! ?

Thanks! And I'm sure you'll be on one soon enough, if not this model, then the even better M2 or M3 down the track. I presume Macs will be the same as iPhones from now on, with yearly upgrades with an updated chip every year, plus little incremental improvements all over. So any year will be a good year, as long as they don't bring anything new and stupid again (holding my breath ha ha).

 

[rhemy123]

The truth is with many things, you need to be in the right place at the right time with some talent to back it up. Ive took a risk with Apple, they were practically on the verge of insolvency and obviously Jobs could see something in him. At least that's what the Steve Jobs biography states.

Between Ive and Jobs, they were an amazing team. Jobs managed to keep him under control whilst Ive was very good at design however you look at it. No one at the time within the industry was coming up with designs like that so to say he was mediocre is unfair at best in my opinion.

There were companies that were coming up with amazing designs at that time. Motorola razor, Blackberry pearl or the Porsche design, the Palm Pixi operating system and phone to some extent were all novel in some way for their design. Then difference between them and apple is that apple had better software and Apple had much deeper pockets and access to cutting edge tech. Apple and Johnny were iterating in a field where there was little investment, but even with that there were still great designs. Some of which Apple has incorporated in there own software and design. Take a look at the palm pixie and pixie plus.

 

[Chrjy]

There were companies that were coming up with amazing designs at that time. Motorola razor, Blackberry pearl or the Porsche design, the Palm Pixi operating system and phone to some extent were all novel in some way for their design. Then difference between them and apple is that apple had better software and Apple had much deeper pockets and access to cutting edge tech. Apple and Johnny were iterating in a field where there was little investment, but even with that there were still great designs. Some of which Apple has incorporated in there own software and design. Take a look at the palm pixie and pixie plus.

The Palm Pixi was announced in 2009 and the Plus 2010...2-3 years after iPhone. As for The Razor, this can't possible be compared to iPhone, it was simply a take on many Samsung foldable phones but with a flush numerical keypad.

I was also referring to products way before these times, the original iPod, the iMac, these 2 products alone are iconic and will go down in history. Irrespective of whether there were devices that did similar e.g. a computer and an MP3 player, Apple threw the rule book out the window and designed products that were like no other on the market. It is these products that catapulted Apple and one of the major reasons they are as successful as they are today.

Previous to these products, Apple were in a desperate state and only survived due to a cash injection from Microsoft. If it were really that easy to design great products then they would have succeeded in the early to mid 90s but alas they didn't have a good designer and visionary.

It was the collaboration of Jobs and Ive that made this happen.

 

[rhemy123]

The Palm Pixi was announced in 2009 and the Plus 2010...2-3 years after iPhone. As for The Razor, this can't possible be compared to iPhone, it was simply a take on many Samsung foldable phones but with a flush numerical keypad.

I was also referring to products way before these times, the original iPod, the iMac, these 2 products alone are iconic and will go down in history. Irrespective of whether there were devices that did similar e.g. a computer and an MP3 player, Apple threw the rule book out the window and designed products that were like no other on the market. It is these products that catapulted Apple and one of the major reasons they are as successful as they are today.

Previous to these products, Apple were in a desperate state and only survived due to a cash injection from Microsoft. If it were really that easy to design great products then they would have succeeded in the early to mid 90s but alas they didn't have a good designer and visionary.

It was the collaboration of Jobs and Ive that made this happen.

im not comparing them to the iPhone. The pixies' card style operating system was unique to the pixie as was the sliding mechanism and the smooth rounded edges. All things that the iPhone started using after the pixie was released. there were other tablets before apple. What set apple apart was often its software and software design. Ive gets many kudos for designing interesting products in a technological space. But what is often overlooked is that Apple is a design first technology company, so Ive had free reign in many respects. Product designers at other companies probably had to make due with what ever the accountants agreed with. So yes, the idea of a Motorola product designer penning the razor at time when phones were thick and practical is amazing. the card system and rounded edges of the pixie visionary (it was a soft pebble like structure that didn't really exists then). The blackberry pearl with its excellent keyboard and glowing thumb mouse or its Porsche design metallic equivalent truly amazing.

Ive had many flops while at Apple. His design didn't turn the company around. It wasn't until Steve took the helm that Ive became known because Steve was the genius. His vision pushed apple forward. Ive made competent design decisions with his design team at a company that cared about the design of the product. Think about it. The design of the MacBook hasn't changed all that much in years. The design of the iPod and then then iPhone hasn't changed that much in years. The iMac is the same thing. The home pod the same thing. The Apple Watch the same thing. Most people didn't by Apple an apple product because of what it looked like.

 

[Chrjy]

Ive had many flops while at Apple

All great designers do. No one in any career has not failed at some point no matter how good they are. All successful people fail.

His design didn't turn the company around. It wasn't until Steve took the helm that Ive became known because Steve was the genius

As I mentioned previously, it was the combination of Steve and Jony that was unstoppable. It takes more than one person.

Motorola product designer penning the razor at time when phones were thick and practical is amazing

'Amazing' is a stretch. Yes I remember its release but if it really wasn't that different to any other device on the market. It wasn't a paradigm shift like iPhone.

Product designers at other companies probably had to make due with what ever the accountants agreed with

That's a pretty big assumption but even if true, great designers will always find a way even with a tight budget.

The design of the MacBook hasn't changed all that much in years

Why is that I ask myself! Great designs don't need changing significantly. When you can design something and a decade later it still looks great why would you change it. The irony is now that Apple are going back to some of their older designs with the new MBP....who designed those?

The design of the iPod and then then iPhone hasn't changed that much in years. The iMac is the same thing. The home pod the same thing

Sounds like you as a individual are looking for a change every year rather than a company needing to change their designs for the sake of it. None of those things need to change.

Most people didn't by Apple an apple product because of what it looked like

Are you kidding? I'm pretty confident if a survey was done that over half would say they bought an Apple product because of its look. I have heard so many people gush over how nice a product is when it's launched and they want one! Unlike those of us on MR, they don't care about specs, they want a product that looks great and does its job.

However, I do think that you and I have very different opinions so we'll probably need to agree to disagree.

 

[chucker23n1]

I'm pretty confident if a survey was done that over half would say they bought an Apple product because of its look.

Maybe. I'm not sure that's true. The looks don't hurt but are a cherry on top of many other good design decisions that have nothing to do with looks.

I have heard so many people gush over how nice a product is when it's launched and they want one!

You're extrapolating "pretty" from "nice".

they want a product that looks great and does its job.

Exactly.

 

[rhemy123]

All great designers do. No one in any career has not failed at some point no matter how good they are. All successful people fail.


As I mentioned previously, it was the combination of Steve and Jony that was unstoppable. It takes more than one person.


'Amazing' is a stretch. Yes I remember its release but if it really wasn't that different to any other device on the market. It wasn't a paradigm shift like iPhone.


That's a pretty big assumption but even if true, great designers will always find a way even with a tight budget.


Why is that I ask myself! Great designs don't need changing significantly. When you can design something and a decade later it still looks great why would you change it. The irony is now that Apple are going back to some of their older designs with the new MBP....who designed those?


Sounds like you as a individual are looking for a change every year rather than a company needing to change their designs for the sake of it. None of those things need to change.


Are you kidding? I'm pretty confident if a survey was done that over half would say they bought an Apple product because of its look. I have heard so many people gush over how nice a product is when it's launched and they want one! Unlike those of us on MR, they don't care about specs, they want a product that looks great and does its job.

However, I do think that you and I have very different opinions so we'll probably need to agree to disagree.

Chucker replied to many of the erroneous things you stated. Id like to add that the paradigm shift for the iPhone wasn’t its design. It was the inclusion of the web browser. As someone who was consistently purchasing data phones since there inception I can promise you that was the killer feature. It was an iPod, a phone, and an internet navigator all in one. The capacitive touch tech also made the design more appealing. Yes it needed to fit in the hand and the pocket, but the particulars of the design were less important than the software itself. This is why Ive was average to me. His designs aren’t artful. The things people remember the most about apple products weren’t Ive inventions:
iPod Scroll wheel: Phil Schiller
Swipe to unlock: Greg Christie
skeuomorphic design: Steve Jobs

Ive created those ugly candy colored iMacs. The ugly candy colored iBooks. The flop G4 cube Mac ( it was interesting tho). He also stripped the skumorphic design language from apple the first chance he got, and that was a flop, he created ultra thin MacBooks which left many people unwilling to upgrade.
Meanwhile, apples software team was truly innovating in UI design—making the software simple to understand. Apples software is the primary driver to its brand. This is why Samsung can create a similar phone and not sell as well.

Ive did help to create the Apple look. But any competent designer could have done the same and Apple products still would have sold just as well. This is why Ive is average to me. Average in a world of product designers.

 

[rhemy123]

All great designers do. No one in any career has not failed at some point no matter how good they are. All successful people fail.


As I mentioned previously, it was the combination of Steve and Jony that was unstoppable. It takes more than one person.


'Amazing' is a stretch. Yes I remember its release but if it really wasn't that different to any other device on the market. It wasn't a paradigm shift like iPhone.


That's a pretty big assumption but even if true, great designers will always find a way even with a tight budget.


Why is that I ask myself! Great designs don't need changing significantly. When you can design something and a decade later it still looks great why would you change it. The irony is now that Apple are going back to some of their older designs with the new MBP....who designed those?


Sounds like you as a individual are looking for a change every year rather than a company needing to change their designs for the sake of it. None of those things need to change.


Are you kidding? I'm pretty confident if a survey was done that over half would say they bought an Apple product because of its look. I have heard so many people gush over how nice a product is when it's launched and they want one! Unlike those of us on MR, they don't care about specs, they want a product that looks great and does its job.

However, I do think that you and I have very different opinions so we'll probably need to agree to disagree.

Also, I don’t need a product design change every year. But look at Ives products. All of them are virtually a screen with a bezel around it—Smaller bigger wider. Honestly, I think the others at apple probably held him back a little, for the sake of keeping things simple, beautiful, and easy to use.

 

[DeepIn2U]

How would you suggest that Mr. Ive should have done a commission from an initiative lead by Prince Charles without it being associated with Prince Charles, then?

By doing something no associated with this prince in the first place. The initiative isn’t the fault just associate with a cause more legitimate

 

[Tuba]

By doing something no associated with this prince in the first place. The initiative isn’t the fault just associate with a cause more legitimate

The initiative existed long before Jony Ive got involved, and was started in cooperation with Prince Charles. Jony Ive was asked to provide a design and did so. This process is called ‘business’ and is mostly concerned with the transfer of funds.

 

[Chrjy]

Chucker replied to many of the erroneous things you stated. Id like to add that the paradigm shift for the iPhone wasn’t its design. It was the inclusion of the web browser. As someone who was consistently purchasing data phones since there inception I can promise you that was the killer feature. It was an iPod, a phone, and an internet navigator all in one. The capacitive touch tech also made the design more appealing. Yes it needed to fit in the hand and the pocket, but the particulars of the design were less important than the software itself. This is why Ive was average to me. His designs aren’t artful. The things people remember the most about apple products weren’t Ive inventions:
iPod Scroll wheel: Phil Schiller
Swipe to unlock: Greg Christie
skeuomorphic design: Steve Jobs

Ive created those ugly candy colored iMacs. The ugly candy colored iBooks. The flop G4 cube Mac ( it was interesting tho). He also stripped the skumorphic design language from apple the first chance he got, and that was a flop, he created ultra thin MacBooks which left many people unwilling to upgrade.
Meanwhile, apples software team was truly innovating in UI design—making the software simple to understand. Apples software is the primary driver to its brand. This is why Samsung can create a similar phone and not sell as well.

Ive did help to create the Apple look. But any competent designer could have done the same and Apple products still would have sold just as well. This is why Ive is average to me. Average in a world of product designers.

As mentioned previously, we'll have to agree to disagree.
We each have our own thoughts on this and life would be boring if we all had the same opinions. Luckily that is not the case.
Chucker replied to many of the erroneous things you stated
Although I would appreciate a little respect. Stating what I said as wrong is based on a differing opinion rather than fact.

 

[rhemy123]

As mentioned previously, we'll have to agree to disagree.
We each have our own thoughts on this and life would be boring if we all had the same opinions. Luckily that is not the case.
Chucker replied to many of the erroneous things you stated
Although I would appreciate a little respect. Stating what I said as wrong is based on a differing opinion rather than fact.

I’m sorry if you think I was disrespecting you. I was merely pointing out that their have been many innovative product designers throughout history. This is the job of any product designer. Liking the look of a tool is a plus, but more importantly to a creative is that the tool does what he/she wants it to. apple can charge a premium for its products because of its software, its ease of use, its technical calibration. This is why apple invests so much to differentiate its products via software. This is also why when apple began selling macOS to pc vendors that the business lost massive amounts of revenue.

for example look at the Apple Watch. there’s an aluminum version, a stainless steel version, and an Hermes version. The cheapest version outsells the most specialized highest priced version. Most people say the software is the same so why spend more. Of course some people will focus on the particulars of the design differences, but that’s a sliver of consumers. Jony is an okay product designer who had a ton of money and investment behind him coupled with robust software. But jony was not instrumental in Apple’s success. apples success was instrumental in Jonny’s success. This is why apple will be fine without Ive. Good luck to them without Steve though.

 

[257Loner]

Seems like a play off "Magna Carta", the Great Charter that granted rights to the church and citizenry of England. Perhaps "Terra Carta" is meant to promote Planet rights?